[This began as a comment to PastorDan’s excellent Word for the Week for Easter Sunday. It got so long that it put me in mind of the “community standard” that if your comment is really long, you probably need to post your own diary. So I am. With a “Thank you” to PastorDan for his many diaries and comments and sermons that offer so much food for thought for believers and non-believers alike.]
Let me begin by saying that I am not a believer, but I do spend some time thinking about what is the best way to live life, and in order to find the answers to my own questions about these things, from time to time I read the words of the great philosophers and teachers of history – or more often, I read someone else’s explanation of their thoughts and teachings, because I do this at a very superficial level.
For example, I am struck by this phrase from PastorDan’s text for the day from Colossians: “Put to death, therefore, whatever in you is earthly: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed (which is idolatry).” It seems very similar to (my shallow understanding of) some of the teachings of Buddhism.
I find much that I value highly in the words of Jesus as reported by the writers of the gospels. I have not read the Jefferson Bible, but if I understand it correctly, I think I would like it very much.
PastorDan’s comment,
I recently listened to Bob Solomon’s lectures on Nietzsche. Now to be clear, I have not read Nietzsche’s works, so my understanding of Nietzsche’s thought is my own interpretation of Solomon’s interpretation . . . and may bear little resemblance to what Nietzsche actually said. But I like my interpretation for giving me guidance in my own life. (Please don’t give me a hard time about this. I do own books by Nietzsche, and plan to do a “reality check” by reading the original as soon as I can.)
And this is my interpretation of the concept of going “beyond morality.” First, that it is most definitely not a suggestion that we should cease to be moral. But rather, that if we define morality as simply “following the rules” that is not enough. Being truly moral requires more. It requires that each person be the most moral person that they – in their own uniqueness – are capable of being.
For example, there is a near-universal “rule” – don’t steal. For one person, perhaps growing up in severe poverty and with a tendency to envy as part of their character (for whatever reason), simply not taking things that don’t belong to them may be the most moral that they are capable of being in this regard. Another person may go beyond that to resist being manipulative, because manipulation is a way of “stealing” other people’s time and energy. A business owner may choose to “not steal” his employees’ work by paying them fairly and treating them with respect. Yet another person may able to be their “most moral” by working tirelessly to fight against poverty and for social justice in a third-world country, seeing pathological maldistribution of wealth that gives rise to such poverty as stealing.
PastorDan seems to be saying much the same thing. The battle against the condition of the world has got to start right here, right now. Too many are hurting, too many are dying, to wait for pie in the sky.
Simply following the rules as laid out by one’s adopted religion, or any other ethical system if one is not religious, is not enough. We must do the best that each of us, given our own particular talents and limitations, is capable of. For some liberals or progressives, the best that they can do may be informing themselves, showing up, and voting. But for most of us here, we must go beyond that.
Raised fundamentalist Christian, converted to Catholicism at age 13 while attending Catholic school. I’ve been an atheist since age 17, when I suddenly realized that one day I would cease to exist when my life ended, as surely as I did not exist before my life began.
Karma Yoga is “right action”, not for the purpose of reaping good karma for oneself, but for the purpose of being of service.
I often hear it said that the popular conception of “karma” is incorrect. This is the clearest (and most succinct) explanation of the true meaning of karma I have heard. I will try to hold on to it.
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First spam post.
I think this wins the “Sweetest Diary of the Day” award…
I presume it involves cookies, yes?
I do deeply admire the words of Jesus, but Paul? . . . um, usually not so much. But this one was a good text, although there are a couple of items on his list that I have no intention of “putting to death” – if I can help it. His second list, well, yes, I’m trying to “get rid of” those things.
As is often the case with me, I liked the explanation more than the original, though I imagine you choking on your coffee at being told someone likes your writing better than Paul’s. Too bad. That’s my opinion. Just don’t let it go to your head (humility being an extremely important Christian virtue.
I went to catholic schools for ten years however by the time I was in late teens that was not anything I associated myself with nor any other religion. The Civil Rights movement and the ERA I think helped push my ideas of religion into the background permanently.
Over the years I have ended up agnostic but on a good day or bad day depending on who your talking to I tend to think I have become an atheist. I can’t quite make that final leap permanent as I still have a smattering of belief that there might be a Creator.
Interestingly enough for me since I have become agnostic, I spend much more time interested in religion.
your thoughts, is sharing a part of yourself. For to be able to do so, is an act of kindness in itself.
Thank you.
May I add my own post – too late for the disappearance of Pastordan’s diary (There really ought to be a special section for reflective diaries that don’t contain kneejerk trigger words in their title).
Pastordan wrote of Woody Guthrie’s fine resistance to racial intolerance which ended, so thr story goes, in him angrily up ending a dinner table. It set off some reflective thoughts for me.
That’s a fine story, Pastordan. Thank you.
I have many Woody Guthrie recordings and have always enjoyed his songs and their meaning. I like Arlo as well – Alice’s Restaurant was and still is a recollection of, well if not youth, then a younger Welshman than now!
I wonder if Woody did throw over the dining table? It is a fairly violent thing to do. I could never quite equate in my mind the story of Jesus in the temple throwing over the usurer’s tables. Surely this would only have caused a confrontation that could have caused violence?
I am sure that most of my US friends on here wonder what I am prattling on about. Violence? Tipping over a table to give emphasis to opposition for extreme racial intolerance? What is with this Brit, this Welshman over there between the green hills and the Gulf Stream washed coast? Get a real life Welshman, it is a harsh world out here requiring strong responses!
I am speculating on this because I haven’t posted for a few days. There are times when music you like ceases for a time to have resonance. It has been a bit like that for me this week, here on DKos and on Boomantribune. It hasn’t quite seemed like the place that I have enjoyed these many months. It is hard for me to put my finger on quite why, but it has something to do with violence. Violence of thought and of language. Not great violence, a violence that many would not notice and, even when pointed out, would not accept is really there. I am certain that many would be horrified and would troll rate me if I said that it was in evidence in some of the diaries and postings that I was reading. After all, they were mainly responses to other people’s grosser violence, a rebuttal and a standing up to the violence in the thought and words of others.
A year before Michael Moore so dramatically pointed out the underlying fear that permeates American society, I had travelled across country from Ohio, through West Virginia and up to Washington by car. I met so much open friendliness on the way that there must be few countries in the World that could match such generosity of spirit. I am sure it helped that I was white and British, with that quaint accent, at a time when we became your main allies in the so called “the fight against terrorism”.
Yet something was wrong. I still had the memory of the one occasion when open hostility was displayed. It came when I asked two neighbours for the directions to the house of my friends on the outskirts of a small Ohio town. Hostility that only showed when they realised that I was referring to some of the blacks that were gradually moving up into the housing on the other side of the road.
What was really wrong during that time, of course, had to do with a man and a kid shooting randomly from the back of their vehicle at passers by in filling stations and coming out of stores. Everyone seemed to feel the fear and it awakened many other fears that were inside them.
It was not hard to reach a conclusion that I was later to hear from Michael Moore as to why this caused so many in the United States to hold guns and move to extremes in religion, politics and in ideology.
What is eating the heart out of so many is not that they are naturally violent but the fear of violence itself. It becomes so common place, that an angry shout of “bloody murderers” outside the Schiavo clinic does not seem an extreme incitement or “Fuck you Repthug, fascist religious nuts” does not appear to be an ugly and violent rejoinder. It is simply that, to a Brit, it is not an ordinary expression of an argument, even in a public demonstration; it is something that seems the prelude to an uglier confrontation.
My ex-wife and I were guests of honour at the annual dinner dance of the major union representing some twenty thousand employees in the public undertaking of which I was a senior director. I knew that the new national officer for the union. who had just been elected to that role, was also going to be present. I was surprised he was not at our top table. It was pointed out that he and his wife were seated at the far side of the large hall with one of the district officials.
I waited to see if we would be introduced. After two hours no one had made a move. The problem was that he had not been elected from the heartland of England from whence National Officers came. That, and the fact he was Jamaican, the first ever black National Officer.
In asides to my wife, I expressed my anger. It increased in time. She knew that I was ready to tip over the dining table. This marvellous lass, with such little political knowledge that she had once almost voted for a candidate with a persuasive election document because of black crime in her area of London without realising it was the British fascist party, disliked ugly scenes. She thought quickly. “Come on”, she said, “We’ll ask them to dance”.
There were few of us on the floor. You could feel the stares and sense the impact around the huge hall. At the end, we brought them over to the table and sat them down. No one demurred. An incident passed without tipping over tables. That union officer remained a friend even when he became head of our largest union in the UK. I don’t think he ever knew what happened that night. Nor would I want him to know.
He would have known if my more sensible and kindly wife had not shown me a gentle way to deal with the situation.
Don’t get me wrong. I boxed for my school and played a dirty game of rugger for as long as I could and still enjoy the sheer physical confrontation of these sports. Maybe, however, I am a wuss, maybe all we Brits are. This week, the French Minister of Transport urged his fellow countrymen to reduce deaths on their road by adopting some of the British courtesy and non-aggression in their driving! No wonder Schumacher is World Formula One champion and not Jason Button.
I don’t know. Woody and I are brothers-in-arms on this racial hatred thing. Yet we depart from each other if it involves sending crashing the usurer’s tables or simply screaming invective. It just means someone will react by turning over your table or screaming invective back. All of which creates fear. I don’t want to live in a society like that, so I stay quietly on my small part of the Welsh coastline.
Not just actions but words can create fear. There has been too much a sense of that around this week on our blogs for this Brit. And I am probably quite alone in feeling this around the place. Which could be a pity. What a wuss I really am!
I would say that inventive ways around intolerance, such as yours are just what we need. And the air of violence is not just affecting you, it’s been an overly emotional week I think.
. . . how happy I was to see your reflections appended to my diary. See this comment that I posted a few days ago to get an idea.
Thinking about your ex-wife’s actions, I’m reminded of how often I see a man attempt a difficult physical task by the stubborn application of brute force, and then saying, well, how about this way? When they ask how I got the idea, I say, we girls aren’t as strong as you guys, so we have to be smarter.
This is not about male/female differences – it only applies to sheer physical strength, and obviously not always in that case. But all of us are tempted to confront injustice with “stubborn brute force” when what we need to do is be smarter.
I appreciate your thoughts on being on the alert for “subtle violence.” (Like subtle racism*. When we detect it in ourselves, it should be a trigger to be stronger by being smarter.
And that’s the real point. Your ex-wife was not being gentler, she was being smarter. I am sure she is a very gentle person, but the important thing is that her suggestion more effectively accomplished what needed to be done than table overturning would have done.
So this is not an issue of “wussiness.” I’m not buying that you’re a wuss anyway.
[*I feel like I’m whoring my diary and comments all over the place today, but really, I’m just sort of enjoying the combination of small site (while it lasts) and the beauty of hyperlinks to expand the discussion.]