–William Federer, nationally syndicated pundit, in his article “The Court-Ordered Death of Terri Schiavo”, October, 2003
–Joe Ford, Harvard Student writing an opinion piece in the Harvard Crimson, “FOCUS: Bigotry and the Murder of Terri Schiavo”, March 25, 2005
This was the method used at Auschwitz to murder Father Maximilian Kolbe, the priest who volunteered to take the place of a Polish father of a large family, who was one of 10 the camp commandant had selected for execution in reprisal for the escape of a prisoner…
…One wonders if our young, so many of them cheated of a knowledge of history in schools they are forced to attend, are aware of how closely our elites approximate, in belief and argument, the elites of Weimar and Nazi Germany in the 1920s and 1930s.
–Patrick J. Buchanan, “In the Schiavo Case, Elites Reveal Similarity to Nazi Germany”, March 24, 2005
The latest comparison between the Nazi Party and liberals, Democrats and just plain old ordinary folks who want don’t want Congress and the President presiding over personal family decisions and taking sides in a family feud, is pretty darn interesting. These comparisons are made by pure hacks like Michael Savage, to academics like Dr. John Hunt and a whole lotta folks in between.
Some of the more reasonable people making these arguments – like Dr. Hunt – have some pretty good facts on their side. In order to understand the presentation of these facts, however, you have to understand that euthanasia and abortion are intimately linked in the minds of the pro-life crowd as human rights abuses and crimes against humanity that the Nazis committed.
Briefly, here’s the outline of their argument (distilled from Dr. Hunt’s academic paper, “The Abortion and Eugenics Policies of Nazi Germany”):
2. The Weimar Republic first jump started the drive toward abortion, birth control, and euthanasia. The push to legalize abortion was done under the philosophy of perpetuating “wanted” life. Dr. Hunt states: “…In 1928, ministry officials at the Department of Health held secret sessions with the most prominent racial thinkers in Germany, in which they talked about the possibilities of forced sterilization and killing of the severely mentally disabled, among a number of other measures. The law, uneasiness about public opinion, and a desire for more knowledge about heredity held them back.”
3. Therefore, the mass murders, human rights abuses, torture and drive toward the “master race” was the Nazi Party’s continuation of the same philosphies that drove the Weimar Republic in issues of abortion, birth control and euthanasia. Dr. Hunt sums up this argument as follows: “Whatever the respective motives of Weimar and Hitler, the whole infrastructure for the Nazi sterilization-eugenics program had been laid by the democracy the Nazis had overthrown.”
4. The logical inferences are now clear. To be pro-life is to be against those tools that the Nazis used in their mass murders and genocide. To be pro-choice is to want to continue the same mentality that enabled the Nazis to commit atrocities. As Dr. Hunt sums up: “In looking at the Nazis and abortion, and abortion in general, many…Tend to want to be called “centrists,” “moderates,” “mainstream,” not “extremists.” Prochoice, not pro-life, is closer to fascism. Remember also that democracies can do horrible things.
You know what’s really interesting about these arguments? They’re wrong. The facts are correct, but the conclusions are totally off kilter.
How do I know? The arguments themselves are based on a very selective reading of the history of Nazi Germany. For instance, in my research of the pro-life’s references to Nazi Germany, they never mention that homosexuals were targeted by the Nazis. Not once. I’d actually love for someone to show me an article from a pro-life person that puts this persecution of gay men in Germany in this historical context.
Now, think a moment. Why wouldn’t someone – anyone – on the “pro-life” side mention this? They can’t claim it’s irrelevant. The Nazis themselves saw the imprisonment, sterilization and drive to “cure” gay men in Nazi Germany of their homosexuality as vital to the health of the nation. Indeed, it was so central to their thought processes of eugenics and creating the master race that they even established a Reich Central Office for the Combating of Homosexuality and Abortion. Where they encouraged homosexuality and abortion among non-Germans, among “pure” Germans they were considered threats to the health of the State. When talking about sexuality in Germany, then, why wouldn’t even the most reasonable pro-lifer mention the targeting of gay men? (If you want to read up on this subject, check out my last diary, which contains links to both the Simon Wiesenthal Center and the US Holocaust Museum).
Maybe it’s because they don’t want to upset a large segment of their base. Folks like William Regnery, a member of the family that founded Regnery Publishing, who wants to start an all-white dating service “…since the survival of our race depends upon our people marrying, reproducing and parenting.” The Anti-Defamation League has found evidence of anti-semitism in the “pro-life” movement, so maybe this isn’t so far off.
Maybe there’s an inherent fear of homosexuality in the pro-life movement, promoted by the likes of Jerry Falwell, who feel that, “Granting a marriage license to those of the same sex is the country’s stamp of approval on an aberrant, perverted, and broken sexual lifestyle”, which would lead to the eventual destruction of our country.
What’s wrong with this cherry-picked version of the history of Nazi Germany? I mean, leaving gays out doesn’t change anything else, does it?
Well, yes it does.
You see, the Nazis didn’t believe in the existence of a personal life. All issues of life, death and reproductions were matters that directly impacted the State. As Heinrich Himmler said, when delivering his speech on the “Question of Homosexuality”:
Following this to its logical conclusion, one’s race, one’s gender, one’s sexual orientation and the ability of one to live or die is also not the private affair of the individual. It is a matter for the State.
It is this mentality that scares most folks about the involvement of Congress and the President in the Schiavo affair. Most Americans don’t like the State making these decisions for them. I’d offer a fair bet that most Americans would equate such a practice to Communism or Fascism…or Nazism.
Why the pro-life people don’t see this as well is beyond me.
…it’s great to see y’all again!
The American tradition of medical treatment as a commercial product, the demonization and criminalization of the poor in general, does indeed follow the principle that human beings exist to make profit for the state, or in the case of the US, corporations. The big winner in the bankruptcy ban, for example, will not be the banks, but the prison industry. Obviously, banks will see lots of defaults, and as the poor are unable to pay the credit card bills and stay in housing, once they are on the street they are quickly subsumed into the “justice system,” where they will generate a revenue stream, and make more money for the corporation, than they would even if they were able to continue paying the credit card bill.
The banks, for their part, can make up for their defaults by financing prison construction.
The cognitive dissonance comes in with an “event” like the Schiavo case, where on the surface, it appears that it is the “left” that is arguing to keep the tube out, when the reality of course is more accurately illustrated by the Texas Futile Care law, signed by Bush! – and the “right” is arguing for providing indefinite custodial care to this one individual, though they are much more likely to oppose making even routine medical treatment available to the poor – even to themselves!
You can actually hear people complain about not being able to afford treatment for medical problems, and in the next sentence condemn the idea of “socialized medicine.”
People recoil with horror about the Nazi’s and their eugenics programs yet we did the same thing in this country I believe into the 70’s. No can’t find a link right now but remember reading this just several months ago and was kinda sick about it. Also trying to remember what state it was that put up some monument saying they would never do anything like that again…like Virginia maybe? I guess I’ll have to go look this up as this sounds pretty outrageous huh.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002/05/02/virginia-eugenics.htm
Wow. I had never heard of this before. I had heard about stuff like the CDC using African Americans in syphillis experiments without their knowledge or consent…
Scary.
The eugenics programs, in the US. That’s one distinction we could do without, but it’s true. In fact, before Hitler and all that, Germans and others… from Scandanavian countries, I think, would travel to CA to study the eugenics program and its application. I believe some from here even travelled to Germany and other places to help them implement the program.
There were a few stories a year or so ago, about this and the one in VA, and other ones. It was yet another shameful (and now pretty much hidden) part of US history. Some of the big business names were involved too, the only one I can remember being that of whoever owns/owned the Fruit of the Loom product line.
I didn’t know that about CA. As much as I hate finding out about lousy things done in this country I really think it is vital these kinds of things should be known so as ‘they’ say we are not doomed to repeat our mistakes if we don’t know our own history.
If you have some good links to this I’d really appreciate it. Will probably google this later on, but always good to see if folks have some good articles/papers to recommend.
Sad, disgusting and tragic reading, much of it. The last one is an article by some person I’ve never heard of, but which has lots of information (which of course should be independently verified). The others are news articles and one from history news network.
Eugenics and the Nazis — the California connection
The Frightening Agenda of the American Eugenics Movement
Liberal California confronts years of forced sterilisation
The Cutting Edge: Sterilization and Eugenics in California, 1909-1945.
Thanks for taking stuff like this on… history is so important, as is keeping track of the monsters past and present, as well as the good people. Unfortunately, sometimes they seem to be one and the same, at first glance.
Saw a book published on this recently but didn’t pick it up…unfortunately.
History is VERY important, truth in history even more so. Truth in the history of Nazi Germany is rapidly disappearing, IMO.
Great links – thanks for the info Nanette. It is appalling to think that CA participated in this yet the active participation with internment camps makes this believable.
Great diary grannyhelen.
methinks they want to be careful going after Margaret Sanger, because of the connections they will uncover. One of the BIG supporters of the eugenics movement kin the first half of the 20th century was a merchant banker who later did business with the Nazis, and eventually became a US Senator from CT — yep, god ol’ Prescott Bush, grandfather of the current president (and on the board at Yale when Shrub got in, otherwise with his Cs at Andover he probably would not have been accepted).
At some point just google Prescott Bush, Sanger, eugenics and see what comes up.
…they never mention “Prescott Bush” either. Guess that might knock our current President’s sainthood status down a notch or two…
for another excellent look behind the curtain onto the dark side. Keep documenting, it’s so important.
It’s all so unbelievably scary that America is going down this road.
I sure hope the RW noise machine echochamber is whistling past the graveyard this time. The polls have shown this exercise is failing, yet they persist. They’re talking fringe positions. Let’s keep the hope that this is the gamble that loses them everything.
You’re welcome. Cross posted on http://faithforward.blogspot.com/ and, of course, Daily Kos…it was one of those rapidly disappearing diaries over in Kosland.
Thanks to you and everyone for reading and sharing!
The insanity of comparing American progressives to Nazis is just another bit of outrage to add to this already insane, tragic, and abusive nonsense that the right has spewed since they chose to make this a rallying event. Randall Terry is not a ‘christian family rep’, he’s a terrorist as far as I am concerned.
The thing is, the American people seem, more and more, to be able to shake off the ‘September 11th’ effect of not questioning anything that they are told by the Fox News Bush apologist crowd. Social Security. The Terri Schiavo case. Tom DeLay and the people’s lack of trust in the GOP or the President on a range of issues aggravated by their cynical power grab to change the headlines. These outrageous attempts to decieve and exploit events for political game are far removed from the War on Terror and anything that gets away from the issue of terrorism gets people thinking.
One can only hope that the people are shaking off the rust and starting to see just what kind of American Taliban they have, rather than the faux knights in shining armor they were led to believe they had in front of them.
Great diary!
They don’t see it because they don’t question, research etc., They follow their leader whoever it is and if they think God is in the mix it’s ok by them.
The Mind Blindness is frightening, but then they watch Fox and have been mentally pummelled for years. Brainwashed is brain dead.
Heh- maybe that’s why they are fighting so hard for Terri- they relate to being in a vegetative state..
(sorry that sounds so mean, but I say it with snark)
“You see, the Nazis didn’t believe in the existence of a personal life. All issues of life, death and reproductions were matters that directly impacted the State.”
I hadn’t really thought about the relevance of this in the comments that gay people are selfish or hedonistic. Now it makes sense, well, not sense but at least I can see where the nonsense is coming from.
A great diary, as usual from you!
My father emigrated from Germany in the 1950s, when he was a teenager, so we have heard quite a few stories about life during the war. My grandmother had 4 small children, and they were forced to ride trains from town to town after the city of Hamburg was burned.
One of my grandmother’s most striking stories from that time relates to the following quote: “You see, the Nazis didn’t believe in the existence of a personal life. All issues of life, death and reproductions were matters that directly impacted the State.”
She had a miscarriage during those years, and lived in fear that the Nazis would find out and take her away (leaving the children parentless) because of it. Hardly fits with the “pro-abortion” stance of the Nazi’s described by the pro-lifers above, does it?
Another great diary Grannyhelen.
…I don’t know if your grandmother ever thought about this, but you may want to get her talking about this on videotape. There’s still some folks doing historical revisionism of the Nazi period, and first hand accounts are a great way to try to rebut them.
Yeah, I don’t think most of the “pro-life” crowd followers – or even some of the leaders – really understand the Nazi preoccupation with controlling women and children. I always use this as one of the standards of how free a society is – how freely people are allowed to control their own procreation.
Unfortunately, my grandmother passed away years ago. She was less than 5 feet tall, but an incredibly strong woman. I do have copies of everyone’s passports and the steamship ticket from when they came to the States, though. A family treasure!
Lately, we keep seeing so many parallels between what is happening today and what happened then. As a single woman, I worry a little about what the American Taliban might have in mind for us if they get their way.
It’s the structure of our democracy that’s preventing the far right – who are in the vast minority – from turning this into a theocracy.
Germany, a former military/monarchy State, didn’t have centuries of a democratic system and truly independent judiciary that would have helped it prevent someone like Hitler from hijacking the country. Sort of like Napoleon did with France, come to think of it.
We have our “activist judges” to thank for not allowing this vocal minority to hijack our country in a similar manner.
…it has its own self-contained logic. As do most cults…
Just wanted to let you know that I think the above is the correct spelling of Terri’s name.
Thanks – good catch. Will change.
I’m not sure that the Weimar Republic jump started the drive towards abortion and birth control (or for that matter euthanasia). St. Augustine was known to support abortion, and it’s known there was a plant in ancient times that was made extinct because of overuse since it caused abortions. Witches in the middle ages brewed some concoction that caused abortions. Tribal communities in Africa use centuries old techniques for abortions if they are unable to support another mouth to feed. Cleopatra used lemons for birth control, and ancient societies used some sort of wax concoction. So I would not say Dr. Hunts statements are correct to begin with. The Nazis targeted Jews, communists, gypsies, homosexuals, slavs and transients – I don’t read much pro life literature – but from what you’ve posted not only do they omit things, but they also have their facts skewed.
It’s part of their most effective propaganda, because you can look up individual facts and verify them as true.
However, most folks who want to be convinced of this argument won’t independently research the entire history of abortion, for instance, or euthanasia. This is a very effective way to spoonfeed propaganda to folks who want to feel that the people who disagree with them are evil.
Agreed… though I don’t think most would even try to verify an individual fact if it suits their agenda – the Nobel Peace Prize in Medicine jumps to mind as one of the most absurd examples.
Well these are not arguments as such they are name-calling and this is the sort of abuse of the Hitler brand which Godwin’s law was introduced to mock.
They are simply listing some similar things but not making a specific case. For example the starvation thing. No one who wanted Shiavo dead (ie was pro-Shiavo) wanted her to starve especially. Any other form of killing would have been fine. Neither would the anti-Shiavo side have been satisfied if the killing was by a more “humane” means. The “humane” description is false anyway because Shiavo was brain dead and unable to feel any pain or discomfort. Starvation per se was a non-issue.
The anti-Shiavo group couldn’t make any analogy that was fair (whether to Hitler or anything else) because they had no principled basis for their actions. That is to say- they had no universal law that they supported in this case – it was all a once off for Shiavo alone.
They make noises as if they were against someone having their tube cut but they were not — since the state would have to pay for that and they oppose universal healthcare. They make noises as if they favour the right of the government to subject people to surgery against their will. But they aren’t in favour of that either. They aren’t against starvation. I cannot think of a single thing that is a universal law which they support and is applicable to the case.
It’s pure grandstanding and sloganeering.
Now surely this is an odd thing. How is it that a group of people with no moral principle at all on an issue can set up such a circus and grandstand and talk about ther moral values and none of it is real — without being called on it?
I agree. No man is an island. It’s a matter of competing interests. The individual has a great claim to their life, but it not the only one. It is a matter of where the balance is found.
For example in the case of someone whose brain dead like Shiavo I really see no reason at all to care what Shiavo wanted, although I am perfectly happy to go along with the current law which is that the brain dead person is considered alive and therefore able to refuse surgery and so on. However IMO once you are dead your claim is void and other claims including the state but also your relatives, are superior. I certainly wouldn’t care (couldn’t care) what happens to me after I’m dead (including brain dead).
One I want to respond to…
I agree. No man is an island. It’s a matter of competing interests. The individual has a great claim to their life, but it not the only one. It is a matter of where the balance is found.
I guess I’m a little libertarian in this area. What I feel is the cure to the State being able to conduct eugenics on its population like the Nazis did is to give the individual absolute authority over the areas of making decisions about his or her procreation, sexual practices (unless they are truly criminal in nature, i.e. rape) and life and death decisions. Although from my own personal morality I completely disagree with “patient assisted suicide”, I personally don’t think it’s the role of the state to make this ethical decision for an individual.
If you give legal and moral authority in these decisions to the individual and kick the State out of the process, the State cannot make policies that promote eugenics. Part of the problem I have with the Texas law, for instance, is that I think it does promote eugenics against poor people.
Firstly I don’t understand the difference between what I said and what you said, “unless they are truly criminal in nature”. What you mean there by “criminal” is an activity that the state has determined is not in the interests of society, yes?
Secondly what’s wrong with eugenics? I know Hitler gave it a bad name in a way that he didn’t give, say, vegetarianism, a bad name, but it’s not inherently a bad thing. It’s simply the study of how to improve the human genome. There are a lot of genetically based deseases which curse mankind. What’s wrong with trying to eliminate them?
Afterall you wouldn’t be against quarantining people with a contagious desease would you? Perhaps you would. And as for sexual preferences, you wouldn’t be in favour of legalising necrophilia would you? Afterall that hurts no (living) person so it’s not like rape or whatever – it’s just considered socially unacceptable, again partly for hygeine reasons.
What about the state’s prohibition upon close relatives marrying – this is another health issue which is a simple form of eugenics. Generally the worst genetic deseases are recessive which means that in breeding increases the risk of them very considerably (you understand how that works right?) – hence the ban on marriage to close relatives. It’s eugenics.
Trying to answer back…
Let me try to give you another “for instance” I have an issue with in this area. Some scientists have postulated that there is a “gay gene”. Here in the US, rates of AIDS among gay men are higher than among other demographic groups. I’m reticent to condone the practice of eugenics because I wouldn’t want our country, for instance, to say, “well, let’s try to breed away all gay people because they’re a health risk”.
I know it’s an extreme example, but studying the history of Nazi Germany makes one conclude that extreme doesn’t necessarily mean impossible. That’s why I tilt almost exclusively in favor of the individual in these areas.
For example in the case of someone whose brain dead like Shiavo I really see no reason at all to care what Shiavo wanted…However IMO once you are dead your claim is void and other claims including the state but also your relatives, are superior. I certainly wouldn’t care (couldn’t care) what happens to me after I’m dead (including brain dead).
If I’m ever brain dead, I would expect that the wishes I had before I was brain dead to be upheld. I would see it as dishonor to my memory for my family to do otherwise. Or else what is the point of a will, or any other kind of statement of your after-death wishes?
Especially in light of your other comment:
And as for sexual preferences, you wouldn’t be in favour of legalising necrophilia would you?
I mean, why not? You’re dead, right? You’ll never know.
I don’t see a will as representing the interests of the dead either. If you are dead you have no interests. A will is about the living and if the living decide they really didn’t think much of your opinion even when you were alive and, gosh no they aren’t going to sprinkle your ashes over Lake Victoria – what are you going to do about it? Or how are you harmed?
Carrying out the wishes of the deceased as to their estate is just a social custom (ie not a moral issue) if it doesn’t effect the living. Now if you leave all your money to the cat shelter and your son says he should get it then that is between him and the cat shelter(). You are not involved any more.
Necrophilia is a moral issue because of how it effects the living not the dead. That is true of all moral issues. Again the poster above said something about the interests of yet-to-be-born children in the case of marriage to a close relative. Rubbish. If you don’t exist then you have no rights. Even the freepers only talk about the rights of a zygote so let’s not start saying people who don’t exist (or are dead, or brain dead) ought to have rights.
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(
) and institutions ought to have no rights either, so really I mean the owner of the cat shelter or the board or CEO.
thanks again for this diary. This is one of the best threads going to my way of thinking. Many interesting comments and information to be found.
Love the thread, to. Thanks to everyone for participating!
The art of hypocrisy. Wow! Some people are natural born talents.