Booman tribune’s first failure. You can consider this a variant of the “goodbye cruel world” diary except I’m not going anywhere until I’m kicked out. I am pretty disgusted with this “community” at the moment though.
Two diaries:
Diane’s What is Purpose of Political Forums and Blogs?
Booman’s Thoughts, and a Warning, on Israel
The one a contradiction of the other.
Xenophobia and ignorance wins.
Incidentally, would this be the first example of ratings abuse so far? Another first!
I promised Diane I’d get back to her with some thoughts on that diary but I find myself unable to say what I intended to there now without feeling like a hypocrite.
I would really like to know which vision of the future of this board is correct: The noble ideals of community, education and exchange of ideas and encouragement found in Diane’s diary or the xenophobia, hate, arrogance and ignorance that constitutes Booman’s diary?
It’s ok; I no longer consider myself a member of this forum in any sense so it’s all academic to me what the rest of you decide to do. As I write this though, I think I can guess which way it’s going to go.
I think You just complimented me and I thank you for that.
I not sure if I am the correct person to answer your question but since you mentioned me in your diary I will at least give you my reaction.
I have been folowing the discussion between you and others reg. the Isreal/Palestine thing and I’ve seen how heated it has become. I thought of interjecting several times, but decided to see how the chips fell.
I don’t pretend to fully understand the issues you have discussed so I won’t comment on that, but I will comment that I think you all should just agree to disagree on this as I don’t think you will come to any resolution.
As to the purpose of this board I think that is multipurposed and allows for your type of discussion as well as my type of discussion, and I think its unfortunate that Lavorious came late to the game and inserted his two cents and saw fit to give, I think the first 1 on this site.
We have been relatively civil for a while now with a few skirmishes here and there but eventually resolved. Perhaps that is what you all need to do with this.
Personally I think that you all wasted a lot of time discussing something that it was obvious from the first you were not going to agree.
David Byron I don’t want you to leave this site, I want you to settle this and then go on and forget about it. Is that possible, you tell me.
I do want you to post on my diary as you intended and look forward to seeing your entry soon.
I’ll second what Diane said. At a certain point it’s obvious no one is going to convince the other side to their point of view, period. Especially on the whole subject of Israel/Palestine. The most anyone can hope for in any discussion on this particular issue is to present some facts and hope you may convince someone who doesn’t know anything at all about the subject. Or get them to do their own reading on said subject and form their own opinion.
I also happen to agree with many of the points you were making and as far as I’m concerned the Palestinian people are basically living under apartheid now. Which I’ll probably get flamed for saying somewhere along the way but hope not as that is my take on things as is happening right now.
So, I do hope everyone can take a deep, deep, deep breathe on this particular issue and remember to respect the others point of view no matter how much we may absolutely and completely disagree. Answers should be made to the comments not to people personally.
That’s fine if “we” are here just to shoot the breeze.
As a debate on that particular issue went… it went pretty well I think. Only one asshole troll rating the entire time. Most posts were over a pages long. As far as “Did we have a nice chat?” goes we had a nice chat, no doubt. It was a “success” when pitched at that level. Try having that discussion at dKos and it would have been a disaster.
OTOH if you had an idea about this place something more than a coffee shop….
I have no problem being an evangelist among the pagans. I can do gladiatorial pretty well. I can lay down smack with the best of them. It’s more or less what I do most of the time. But isn’t there a better way?
Something really stinks. There’s a bad smell around here and I’m not exactly sure what it is but I’ll figure it out sooner or latter. I’m not leaving. But I have no sense of belonging here.
There is a defeat for the concept of community or purpose that this board might have had – and by lip service at least may still have. There is a defeat for the concept of education or discussion too – which were the other suggested purposes. This is all very depressing.
There’s a sort of miasma surrounding the place. Soj mentioned the other day that there are many places where one people is subject to another and many occupations and movements for independence. Of course the Palestinian situation is fairly given prominence for reasons of size and age as well as political importance but here’s a thought: we could have discussed any of those situations without a problem.
There’s a bad smell to me when a place says it’s purposes include education and discussion but when the feeling is that certain topics are out of bounds. Not because of cencorship (yet) but because people might disagree about them or they are too difficult or arguments might happen. What kind of issues does that leave? If there is no disagreement what is actually going on? Is it a coincidence that topics we can’t discuss are the topics that have a lot of money invested in them by the elites?
What does it say about the community here that ratings abuse is going to be accepted? It says there isn’t one and no one cares. This is of no practical concern at this stage but if you want to go down the dKos path where ratings abuse is the rule rather than the exception, if you want ratings wars and half the energy placed into that sort of thing….. well the reaction to the first snake in the garden is illuminating isn’t it?
My heart isn’t in this anyway because as I say I don’t feel I have any interest in making this place any better at this stage. I guess I’ll just go and troll rate a few of whatsisname’s posts for no reason since tit-for-tat is the only logical defence against ratings abuse in the absence of community policing.
What really does piss me off though is the heart of the Palestinian situation itself which has nothing at all to do with Palestinians. The miasma of xenophobic hatred that is American exceptionalism, the tortured “logic” to close the eyes to the unspeakable evil that is US foreign policy…. the bullying… the master slave assumptions which are present within the so-called liberal groups on line. That’s the real issue here because Palestinians are the poster group for US imperialism with a happy face as suported by the liberals (though there are certainly other groups no one else get’s the money spent on PR against them that they do).
I don’t think your post deserved a marginal rating. But I also don’t intend to cast judgment on every rating that is given out.
Just as an aside, you’ve called me dishonest, a bullshitter, a xenophobe, ignorant, and one or two other things.
The only complaint I made was when I thought you mischaracterized my position.
Sure, I tossed a few jabs your way, but I didn’t call you names or say you were a dishonest, bullshitting xenophobe…or anything comparable.
So…just sayin’…
Booman it wasn’t a marginal rating it was a troll rating. No one ever does marginal ratings (2) or I’d be rating your post above as marginal since it adds pretty much zip to this discussion. It’s poorly written, overlong and over personalised for the comment you made (which itself was obviously wrong). Hence: marginal.
But you’re not a troll are you?
If I gave you a ‘1’ that would be me trying to – I dunno – piss you off I suppose.
Troll rating says the person should be banned. troll rating says something about the motivation of the poster and it says that person is trying to disrupt the board. It has the in-board mechanics effect of tending to wipe out the comment. Why do I have to explain this to you like you were a newbie? You know what this will lead to. You can see it at dKos every day.
You are currently in the position of saying it’s ok to commit ratings abuse. That attitude coming from the person who named this board is irresponsible.
But that’s your choice (together with the others here). I don’t really care. If you say ratings abuse is ok you are saying I can go troll rate him back and that I had better go and do that, right? I want to be clear on this.
Also: you seem to really want to discuss why I called you dishonest. (the other three I take it you just threw in there for effect). This is not the place.
I thought is was a marginal. Obviously, if I didn’t agree it should be marginal, I don’t agree that it should be a troll rating either.
Troll ratings are for comments we would like to see hidden, or a vote for banning a user.
Marginal ratings are called ‘warnings’ here to discourage people from rating content. dKos just changed their ratings too.
But a warning is a courtesy.
If I understood the objection to your post, it was probably perceived as a one-sided view of history. I don’t see why that should be troll rated at all.
I have to say this reminds me of your attitude to the Palestinian issue. You basically encourage a total war by pretending to be “too fair”.
You admit an injustice took place but you will do nothing about it. Therefore I am either going to have to take a pacifist approach whereby I keep getting bombed by the abuser or I retaliate. Your attitude tells me I must retaliate because I’ll get no help from you or the community.
All of which I am perfectly fine with but now it gets worse. I suspect if I go and troll rate – or maybe I’ll super troll rate the jackass who started this, I suspect you’ll suddenly decide that you have to do something after all about this issue — by attacking me, the victim.
So what do you say Booman? Should I go and troll rate in retaliation?
What are you saying?
You are the admin here are you not? Do you think this issue will never come up if I didn’t ask you about it right now? Do you disagree with what I’ve said?
I’m not threatening you, I’m just asking what is acceptable behaviour on the board that you appear to run. Is it acceptable behaviour to troll rate people or isn’t it? If I troll rate him will I be told “I wouldn’t have done that but I guess that’s fine” – the same way you just reacted to the initiator?
If this stuff pisses you off you might want to reconsider being a moderator.
David-
I just stated flat out that I don’t think the rating was appropriate. If you go do a similar thing, I will again say I think the rating is inappropriate.
Get over it. If he shows up he can defend his rating. More likely, he will refrain from making such ratings in the future.
Don’t be so sensitive. It’s one rating, and it doesn’t even count.
I can’t get involved in every rating. I will be updating the FAQ soon, and I will make it clear what I consider the proper rating protocols. For now we are operating under Pastor Dan’s dKos guide as a kind of stopgap.
You can use the language in that (link found in my FAQ)to challenge his rating directly.
He did show up and he did defend his rating abuse. We can assume he will continue to abuse the ratings system. He said he doesn’t consider it abuse.
What are you going to do about it? Nothing.
I’m not being “sensitive”.
Don’t project your insecurities on to me Booman. Good god do you think I could give a flying toss about one stupid bad rating? I get them by the ton. I’m trying to help you out here.
Forget it.
I could care less.
Regarding the troll rating, I also didn’t think it was deserved, but then I am anti troll or marginal ratings for anyone except actual trolls. Giving out troll ratings for disagreements, as has been discussed on this site before, is not something I think is helpful to discussions or the overall tone of the site.
(just adding my 2 cents to that particular issue)
I agree with Nanette, and I have to ask you David Byron what exactly do you want Booman to do? What do you want us to do? Just when I thought this argument is being settled, here it goes and flares up again.
Perhaps you David need to engage Lavirious or whatever his name is in a discussion as to why he rated you thus. I don’t think he has been on these pages too often and has not seen that we on this site allow people to have their views without feelling the need to troll rate what we don’t agree with, at least so far.
How could you be called a troll in the first place, I just don’t get it.
I just got rated my first ever 2 today on any site and I’m a bit miffed by that myself as well, but I then tried to make my point better to the rater and hope he will respond.
It seems that you are angry that Booman has not reprimanded the rater, but I gather that he is not setting himself up as the policeman on the site an impossible task in any case.
It should be some comfort to you that many of us think you should not have been troll rated and have sympathy with your plight, what else can we or Booman do. We surely do not hold it against you that you have been rated this way, so I would think your fight is with L and not with Booman. Would you like us, as members to write a comment to L. Please let us know?
I for one get a kick out of your bluntness, but then you’d probably have to hit my dog to offend me. On the other hand things can get rather heated, an astute observation on my part no doubt, and many people take offense to lets say, various personalities. You’re very knowledgeable on a lot of facts, and you present your arguments well, but you lack tact. Others do too – so what, it’s the contents of the exchange that ultimately matter. If someone disagrees with you or is otherwise put out, it is their right to say so, as in any free thinking society. Point is if you voice an opinion don’t expect everybody to agree.
Nope, you deserved that troll rating for putting your head completely in the sand and only managing to see one side of the story. Don’t get me wrong there have been a lot of nasty things done on both sides of the past century. It’s a complicated situation and only people like you would try to reduce it to a balck and white issue on either side.
It seems to me that you have issues with personality, in that now you need to reduce it to “people like you”. I think you’re perfectly entitled to dissagree – but that’s just nasty.
That by your criteria and by extension of that criteria, your comment above should be troll rated as well as your comment made on the other site. But what purpose would that serve. That is really the point and I think the point made by others. It is like a slap in the face to get troll rated, do you like the slap yourself when visited upon you for not holding the view of another. All of these writings on all of these pages, with the exception of researched papers or quotes, is the opinion of the writer and should be taken as such, not as an opportunity to castigate the holder of the views.
I wish that you would define for me and others just what you think a troll is?
Also I hope you have read the other comments here and our feelings with regards to this, as well as the FAQ’s of this site and in particular Booman’s own comments posted here on the subject.
=fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers.
I’d like you to point out an example of me exhibiting ‘fear or hatred’ of anyone in my diary.
The only moral judgement I made in my diary was an implied distaste for the gaza settlers who intend to cause trouble on Sunday, and an implied distaste for the Muslim leaders who are rising to the bait, and are planning on reacting with (possible) violence.
In fact, your main criticism of both the diary, and my comments within the thread, appeared to be that I was failing to take a moral stand, or to express my opinion on the morality of Israel’s existence. In other words, you were angry that I wouldn’t express any opinion that might be construed as supporting either side.
It’s possible that I am being too fair. You might be construing my failure to condemn Israel as support for Israel by default. But I assume you know better than that.
In the whole thread you only got me to make two vague value judgments:
I said I agreed the original settlement was ‘unjustified’, and I said, ‘I don’t see the conflict as a clear (cut) case of raper and rapee.
Other than that, I made no value judgments.
If that now qualifies as xenophobia, then well…
It just proves my point, that the left is hopelessly fractured over Israel.
This diary isn’t about Israel.
characterization: “the xenophobia, hate, arrogance and ignorance that constitutes Booman’s diary?”
I apologise if you thought I meant you. I didn’t.
Really I didn’t. And I’m really sorry you thought that and it was probably my fault you did.
This is an odd diary for me. It’s odd for me to have a diary at all in fact, but I usually don’t write on a topic until I’m clearer on it. This has led to confusion. I should have waited until I was clearer in my own mind. As it is I really am just getting a bad smell here, and I can’t tell where it’s coming from, but it’s not from any individual, not even me.
It read to me like a straight-forward attack on my character.
Does this change the tone of your other latest response as well?
Because it was pretty hostile.
Well I come across as hostile when I’m not. Having said that for some reason the Palestinian thing really gets me angry and in a way almost nothing else does, I’m not sure why because it’s nothing to me, well it’s not about Palestine anyway as I said in reply to Diane (qv).
The dishonest thing was my honest opinion so I’m afraid that stays. You may want to ask me about that. I realise saying it was a serious comment and not a nasty jab only makes it sound worse but… that’s what I think. That’s also why I don’t equate it with an ad hominem comment. I felt I had to say that I didn’t think you were being genuine.
The stuff about giving you a ‘2’ also stays but it was just a joke because let’s face it a tremendous amont of what gets posted (surely including the crap I’m writing now) is marginal but it’s never used that way. I notice you labelled it “warning!” instead on this site.
While we’re on the subject I didn’t say you were stupid. I do feel you were deliberately refusing to say what you felt was true about the issue.
Anyway I see you have another diary up on Israel. I guess I’m not going to read it since people seemed to think I was “off topic” last time. I’ll just keep out of that one.
“I do feel you were deliberately refusing to say what you felt was true about the issue.”
That’s true, I was refusing to say what I felt about this issue. But I was completely upfront about why.
I’m still refusing to say how I feel about the issue. And for clarity, I’ll state why, again.
The diary was really about two things. First, it was an assessment of the fault lines of leftist thought about Israel. As such, I attempted to lay it out with as little editorializing as possible. I wasn’t arguing for one interpretation or another one. I was talking about the fault lines themselves.
Secondly, the diary was about the impending problem on Sunday at the Temple Mount. And here I wanted to say that the extremists are trying to kickstart a new round of violence. And I hoped that they would be unsuccessful.
My point was that we have to move beyond constant recriminations and work towards reconciliation. If we debate the historical wrongs over and over, we just keep treading water.
So, while I have definite opinions about the state of Israel, it’s history, it’s leaders, our relationship with them etc., that was not the point of my diary. My views will never be the basis for an agreement, my views should not be accepted by all sides, because I am not all-wise.
I don’t want to make this an issue of BooMan thinks about what should happen. My opinions are almost irrelevent. What’s more important to me than a settlement that I personally agree with, is a settlement that the two sides can agree with.
So, I don’t feel that is dishonest, or ungenuine at all. Perhaps, I wasn’t clear enough.
I think what David is getting at is that he wants to know your position on troll rating in general and (if I recall correctly you have mentioned it in your faqs. and could perhaps point to that for David and L) and whether you are going to allow random troll rating for comments one does not agree with.
Perhaps he asks even more to define what is a ‘troll’ for this site.
I also think he feels that as site admin. you might want to step in on these cases and give the site views on troll rating, not to necessarily tell the commenter to not troll rate but to outline what it means on this site.
This is what Kos recently had to say on his site on this subject, maybe you could consider changing rating in a similar manner?:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/4/2/3285/98013
“””On the comment ratings, the “1” rating has been changed from “troll” to “unproductive”. The logic behind the change comes from this comment. In short, the idea is to get away from rating the commenter, and rating the comment. “Troll” rated the commenter, not the comment.
Of course, the “0” rating is still “troll”, so we’re not quite there. Should I change it to “Hide this!” or something similar?””””
Anway wasn’t this the same discussion we had with Galiel a few weeks back, because we successfully resolved the issue in that case?
It was because you (Booman) were writing your comment at the same time so you have already addressd the issue up thread, that I outlined above.
I don’t accept either characterization. In fact, I don’t particularly agree with the premises put forward in these diaries, either.
The beauty of this environment is that I can choose to ignore that which I find ignorable, and I can choose to engage in exchanges I find of interest to me.
We all can choose to stay or leave as we wish. But, to imply the imposition of your particular worldview on this environment as the price for your own continued participation is a bit much.
I’m not here to hold hands and sing songs of brotherhood. This place is one of many entry points or gathering places for partisan information, thought, and calls to action. If you have an issue with someone’s assertions, arm yourself with facts, cogent arguments, and good writing – then let it fly.
Learn to throw an elbow with wit, good arguments, and a sharp tongue. Hand wringing doesn’t count.
No wonder we lose elections.
I’m sorry, but this seems remarkably silly to me. I followed the Israeli/Palestine thread, (and a couple of other controversial threads) and while there was disagreement (when is there not, with that topic?), people wrote huge answers to each other, explaining their positions and their feelings. In order to do that, for the most part, they had to consider their positions, what they were attempting to say, and how to present it in a way that either refuted or agreed with the other person.
There was some frustration, sure, that’s going to happen in any hot topic. But to disagree and say why you are disagreeing, to present one’s side passionately (or with cold logic) is one of the factors that go into making people think and search out new information and possibly open up new lines of thought and belief.
I imagine this board, like most others, will always be a combination of people approaching issues from different points of view, hopefully learning from each other and expanding their ideas of what is right, just, expedient and so on.
I suppose this my fault too. Say some things unclearly and the only definite element is seized upon to the exclusion of the more important other element. Look this ratings abuse thing shouldn’t be a big deal but I find it hard to say concisely what I feel because I don’t feel part of this community and I don’t really feel it’s much of my damn business but at the same time I don’t yet feel this is a hostile forum either.
You don’t want to allow ratings abuse to take root here
Do you? Nothing to do with me. I’m just saying. Ratings wars, endless diaries on it, people getting pissed of, people become hyper sensitive. We’ve all seen it.
So do something about it right now
A stitch in time saves nine.
It’s Booman’s major responsibility
because it’s his site, but it is everyone’s responsibility — if you do see this as a community — to pick up the trash. What I mean by that is to do the work needed to keep the place neat and tidy by preventing fights that would break out if ratings abuse took hold. It doesn’t take much but it take something.
How do you stop socially unacceptable behaviour?
You tell people it is wrong. That’s all. You don’t say, “I wouldn’t do it” or “I disagree with that”, you say, “That’s wrong”. Saying “I disagree” communicates there is a choice of options, both acceptable. Currently L. seems to think that what he did is ok. He will do it again.
Is that what you want?
If it is then simply do nothing. If it isn’t then some kind of enforcement is needed and the minimum enforcement possible – which I believe will also be sufficient – is to do nothing more than tell L. “That’s wrong”. It’s against the rules. Quit.
What about the victim?
By telling the victim that you recognise they were harmed you express sympathy and they don’t feel the need to retaliate. But saying “I wouldn’t have done it” is not the same as “What was done to you was wrong”.
Community
This is really really basic isn’t it? Please someone say this is all obvious. Am I the only one seeing this? It’s not a big deal. It’s just picking up the trash. L. may honestly feel that what he did was acceptable behaviour. He currently feels justified because not one other member of this board except me – the victim – is bothered about his actions. He doesn’t realise he is littering. If you don’t want to be knee deep in trash you had better start with picking up one piece of litter.
Here is what I’m saying. He responded to you before I commented. I have now commented. If he reads the ratings guidelines, reads my comments, and the comments of others here (and contrary to your assertion, others HAVE showed concern), and he still feels his rating was correct, then I will have to disabuse him of that opinion.
That is, unless he comes up with a better explantion than the one he first provided.
Yeah I can see your “appreciation”.
To my mind that basically means either,
(1) He thinks troll rating comments you just disagree with is acceptable albeit “not what I would do”.
(2) He thinks it is unacceptable but refuses to pick up the litter
Unfortunately although picking up litter is everyone’s job (and many hands make light work) if the guy in charge has this attitude then the system cannot work and there’s no point in anyone else doing it either. L. can reasonably claim that Booman doesn’t care so why should he give a toss what anyone else thinks? Carry right on acting abusively.
Therefore the prospects for a community here just went over a cliff. Some people might say that’s a shame.
Ok hang on…. developing……
this is a warning.
I am only human. I have a temper like anyone else. I can only take so much gratuitious poking before I get angry.
If your purpose here is to argue with me, then you should leave.
If your purpose here is to engage in the various topics of discussion, then feel welcome to stay.
I would like to point out that I have tolerated many dubious statements about my character, that your diary STILL carries a sentence in it that you have apologized for, and I am not asking you to change it.
I haven’t demanded any apologies or corrections from you.
This latest post crosses the line.
It simply ignores my response as if I hadn’t responded.
It once again badly mischaracterizes my position and questions my character.
I won’t tolerate any more of this bullshit.
Man what a hypocrite you are to suggest that I’m the one who is thin skinned.
Go ahead and ban me then Mr “too fair”. Go ahead and ban the guy who was the victim of the abuse – that should “solve the problem” shouldn’t it? Like a lot of people I don’t respond well to threats. But you see only your own righteousness and don’t want to hear anything. Well that’s fine because I don’t care to explain myself to you while you have this attitude anyway.
why don’t you just leave on your own accord?
Or do you actually require banning to satisfy your need for victimhood?
Do you not see me as a victim?
I have now been called:
a hypocrite
a bullshitter
a xenophobe
ignorant
arrogant
thin-skinned
a baby
a whiner
what have I called you?
I really admire your patience, Booman.
Regardless of David’s passionate beliefs and opinions, worthy of discussion if properly presented – I think you, and we as a community must take a stand on his approach.
I don’t know how long he has posted here (we’re all new anyway), but have noticed his posts over the last 48 hrs.
Intense, passionate – but, in too many cases also – in my opinion, disrespectful to the community and the host.
The effect is distraction and emotional drain (I get really pissed off from stuff like this, please give me more patience) and takes focus away from the issues we could otherwise discuss (in most cases, learning more from each other).
If Booman decides to ban, I will easily accept. However, I hope that David will acknowledge that his temprament maybe is not such a good fit here and conclude accordigly.
My 2 cents. I hope we can all be vocal on this without being nasty.
My guess would be you already secretly asked him to ban me but are unwilling to say so in public. I would guess that the guy who troll rated me has too.
I have never communicated with Booman via e-mail or any other fashion, but this board. All my opinions have been openly disclosed.
I’m wondering where your cyninism and utter lack of respect for your ‘opponent’ comes from.
It’s been stated here before; there are probably several users here that sympathize, or even agree with some/many of your opinions. My sense is that you manage to piss them off, at least, that’s what you have done to me.
I don’t think I have ever seen such a low display in response to a very proper apology. You complained about being called a “xenophobe”. I explained it wasn’t referring to you and you accepted my explanation and my apology for being unclear and upsetting you.
Yet here you come again making this petty spiteful accusation. Spiting on my very proper apology (which I do not retract) and the explanation you accepted. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. You are low.
I thought I should mention that I would like a sandwich.
You forgot Poland…I clicked on the hidden comments and found my first hidden (other than the test). Couldn’t resist going with the Poland joke.
With this recent line of posting by you, now you are flagrantly insulting Booman and I for one do not like it one bit, he has bent over backwards to address the issues you are bringing up(and to my mind satisfactorily) and now you respond and react to him in this insulting manner and this added on to all the previous insults you have made.
You are now fitting my description of a troll and that is ‘one who’se only purpose is to disrupt the conversation.’
You are losing your argument which had some viable points just by your attitude at this point. I do not see why you have taken this tack. What is your problem?
I didn’t say anything insulting about him. I simply stated that he wasn’t interested in doing anything about abusive rating — which as far as I can see is perfectly true. He’s made that superabundantly clear in a series of posts in this thread. Perhaps you hadn’t seen them? After I posted the post you criticise he said, “I appreciate your approach here” but he still didn’t agree with what I was saying; nothing changed. As far as I can see Booman does not feel this issue needs to be addressed. Do you disagree?
I didn’t even criticise him except very mildy by saying he doesn’t care – which is accurate. Elsewhere I’ve stated that (1) it’s none of my business anyway and (2) ignoring the abuse is one approach – although I was thinking it probably wasn’t a good one.
But if you think I’m a troll too I guess I’ll quit this board after all. At least your opinion I respect. You are asking me to leave by calling me a troll. Do you understand what it is you said? I disagree with your characterisation and therefore – because we disagree – I must be banished. That is what you are saying when you call me a troll.
You just accused me of never wanting to do a damn thing that was positive on this board and said I should leave.
That seems to be an extraordinary hostile claim.
David, now listen, you were taunting Booman, and that is insulting, I am not going to explain any further because I have done so already.
Point is you are not a troll, but having troll behavior at times, like right now, but I will not rate you or suggest banning you even now because I think if you sit back take a deep breath and think about all that has been said you will see we have answered all of your questions the best way we no how.
The honorable thing for you to do now is to say perhaps you might have carried this a bit far and you understand what we were all trying to say. No one hates you or dismisses you, we have engaged with you to a very great extent over this.
If you were my son, and my son and I get on great, I would tell you exactly what I have said above.
I had a disagreement with a poster awhile back and after a long discussion such as this one I posted “What I wish I would have said at the beginning, instead of what I did say that led to at least part of the uproar. At that point the other commenter and I made peace and were ready to go back and redo our discussion in a more civil way and we even went on to become email buddies.I learned from that and I hope you will learn from this. But you can’t make peace and then bring up buts, you must end it there. So Brian I am not against you, nor will I suggest banning you, nor will I troll rate you, OK. Can you and I now at least make peace?
Diane
I will second Dianes comments here, and I feel you are getting just as nasty, without reason as the guy who insulted you. This is taking things to a very personal level.
Are you going to call me a troll too?
I generally leave that comment for people on the other side of the political divide. I said you are “getting” nasty, and personal.
Sorry folks, just go ahead – troll-rate me for bringing profanity to the board:
Fuck you David! What a sorry, self-serving, play-the-victim asshole you are.
I hope you will be banned, not only for being a maga-asshole, but also for your dishonesty in your discourse.
and I think I have addressed it in my comments. Did you see my comment to L.
I think you are really asking the members what direction they want to see the site taking. But perhaps you have missed other discussion we have had on this topic, troll rating, and the conclusions we have come to.
It also seems to me that you are asking members to address this issue with troll raters themselves rather than just to have symapthy with you. I think that you could simply point the rater to the FAQ’s and explain the position of this site.
I was going to come to your aid last night but hesitated because I thought I would just get into the middle of it and then end up attacked myself.
I do think we (Booman) either needs to change the ratings names themselves, or to take a firm position on the subject.
I personally think troll ratings should only be used on those who’se only purpose is to disrupt the conversation.
So question is; do we want to intervene on troll ratings as members and nicely point to Faq’s or simply ignore the rater. I think at this point I would say that I will try in future, to intervene in that manner if I notice and if I can be of help.
I would also add that many if not most on this site come from DK and while some bring the prevailing mentality of that site, others have come here to escape the thought police mentality. Which so far we have been relatively free of (thought police).
I just recently posted a diary (Debate with a neocon)that decended to a discussion of whether or not I should have posted it in the first place as some commenters decided I should not have, but argued that point for hours and days rather than the diary itself. And after 182 comments we agreed to disagree on whether I should have posted the diary or not. Too bad we could not have agreed sooner and had the discussion of the diary itself. But you know what and much to the credit of this community there was not one troll rating given on that diary.
So perhaps we should all think a lot more about just agreeing to disagree sooner rather than later.
Politics is one of the hardest things in the world to discuss and I was always warned as a child to ‘never discuss politics or religion at a gathering or party'(as they all had learned the hard way). So here we all are engaging in discussion of that most delicate area of our lives and who can even dare to hope that it will always stay civil, but still I do hope.
(I’ve always wanted to say that).
Not to make light of anyone’s angst, but this is rapidly devolving into a farce.
I’m afraid I’m getting the giggles (yes, I admit it) just reading thru this, with the misunderstandings and the replying to posts before the replies to the other replies are there, and the getting offended at the posts and then posting replies to the offended parts, after the apologies are made for the offenses but before they are read, but then more offenses are taken from the replies to the prior ones before the new ones are able to be absorbed.
I think someone once wrote a play about this…
for bringing that bit of levity to the “conversation”. When I read your comment I ‘really’ laughed out loud. Posting at the same time when you are in an argument such as this does has it’s drawbacks as we can well see.
I think someone once wrote a play about this…
I think Abbott & Costello made their living with it.
become a thread about David, I suggest anyone who still gives a shit to take it to the DavidByron diary.