What does it mean to be liberal? I am only curious because I see so many opinions here and at Kos from people who are liberals, and in many ways they conflict. I’ll tell you what it means to me. First I want to tell you a story:
WWII: My family were mostly Marxists, intellectuals, working people, with one or two hard core Stalinists. One family member ran off with a SS soldier – but that’s another story. My great uncle, a decorated soldier from WWI, who was severely shell shocked by the experience and was a drifter who stayed with various family members at different times or else in the park, was picked up by the Nazi’s and never heard from again. My father was conscripted into and later managed to desert from the army. There was a lot of hunger and a lot of hiding. At the end of it all the Russians were the first to arrive. After months of hiding in the basements because of the bombing the soldiers finally came. My father (17 at the time) was pinned against the wall with a gun to his head, while the rest of the family had to hand over everything they owned. Then there was looting and rape throughout the city. When the Americans finally came they were generous and civilized. (Well, they paid for their sex with food, anyway.) My father became staunchly pro American after this, even marrying one. He gave up his Communist roots and became a liberal.
I grew up in the 70’s and 80’s in a carefree age (where I was), and for the life of me I never understood what he meant by feeling a collective guilt for what happened at the time. I’d sit up with him until late into the night arguing that he was not to blame for the murder, mayhem and misery caused by the Nazi’s – he barely survived himself. He tried to explain to me that when the society you are in devalues the life of a group of people, in hindsight there is much guilt and shame for the things you didn’t do. Even though this war doesn’t affect my neighbors, I think I finally get it. After all I contribute to this war, albeit unwillingly.
So, in a nutshell, to me being liberal means to value people above all else.
that much of what I do that others call “good” is sheer guilt avoidance. My greatest regrets have always been for things that I should have done, but didn’t. I do things because the guilt of not doing them feels so bad. Not the noblest of motives, perhaps, but it does get some things done.
I wouldn’t say that the motive isn’t noble. What motivates people to be altruistic? At the very least a good act would make you feel good in some way, even if it is just avoiding a negative feeling – whereas omitting a good act would make you feel bad. Do people do good if they don’t feel anything from the deed? Maybe it is possible on an intellectual level in terms of good vs. evil, but even then it is done for a personal reason. I don’t know that it is possible to be truly altruistic.
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Thank you hanni for sharing – greatly appreciated.
My roots are in the Netherlands, where I have returned to reside due to my employment earning a living. Being born shortly after WWII ended, I also have the life’s experiences from my parents and relatives who lived through the era leading up to and during the German occupation of Holland 1940-45.
The Germans invaded on early Sunday morning, May 10th, 1940. My dad was stationed at the great and lengthy Moerdijk bridges in southern part of Holland in defense of Rotterdam harbor and the heavily populated West. The bridges were set with explosives to be blown when the invasion of the Germans would take place.
After the German Blitzkrieg by air, heavy armored troops, vastly outnumbered and betrayal by Dutch citizens sympathetic to the Nazi cause; the German forces decided to bomb the city centre of Rotterdam, a strictly civilian target. The German demand for Dutch troop retreat and surrender took place within a number of days.
The Great Generation of World War II men and women is a recognition for the sacrifices made to defeat the fascists of Hitler, Mussolini and the Imperial armed forces of Japan.
The Liberals IMHO are those who enhance the liberties of all citizens, with tight perception of the responsibility of each individual to his brother and sister in society, this includes the protection of minority rights. Remember the call by John F. Kennedy: “Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country”. This is still today a main principle of the Democrats.
The Greatest Generation lived through all the horrors of war, the great loss of life, the sacrifices needed to defeat a rampant enemy.
To ever equate Bush’s adventure beyond Afghanistan as a liberation of people, is by its definition of terms, nothing more than a fool.
World War II and the greatest generation could only be stated as an historical fact, because it was a JUST WAR, inevitable through years of fascist expansion in Europe and the Far East.
Liberals in today’s terminology, would be anyone who is active to take down this fake Bush | Cheney regime of self-imposed righteousness, contrary to International Law, convention, treaty and UN cooperation.
Pax – bring our troops home asap.
Oui – Liberté – Egalité – Fraternité
Even if we were to compare the rise of Islamic terroristic fundamentalism to the rise of fascism or the horror of Stalinism, and decide that we must confront this metastasis and roll it back…
…we first must take into account our own role in encouraging Islamic terroristic fundamentalism. Some of our culpability has been direct, like our policy during the Soviet-Afghan War or our historic alliance with the Wahhabi/Saud family in the Arabian peninsula.
Some of it has been indirect, as in our support for autocrats in Egypt, Jordan, and Iran. By siding with tyrants we have failed our own best ideals, and exposed ourselves as rank hypocrites in the Muslim world.
Saying that the terrorists ‘hate freedom’ is a particularly myopic statement in light of our history vis-a-vis Muslims.
So, Bush got off on the wrong path and just kept running in the wrong direction. We must first take the plank out of our own eye before we can begin to exert leadership in rolling back the appeal of terror tactics and Islamic holy warriors.
You right, but I think that before we point fingers elsewhere we must look to ourselves first. Granted, our fundamentalists are kittens compared to their lions, but our kittens are growing up.
The German hatred can be traced to Versailles and poverty. Should the US have gotten involved (never mind that we were already “involved”)? I think the big motivator was not letting Russia gain too much of a foothold in Europe since I don’t think that they believed Germany would have survived (nor do I).
Naturally we had a big part in creating the Middle East situation, but then so did Britain. Our attentions have been primarily self-motivated. We helped create Hussein, and now we’re creating something else that cannot be defined yet with any clarity – though now it would seem that we are intent on staying so that we can watch over our assets with some permanency.
I guess my point is what business do we have coming from a flawed society ourselves, dictating what others do. WWII, Vietnam, Korea etc.. are history, but how can we advance to becoming a civilization that leads by example rather than force without looking to ourselves first. As the wealthiest and most powerful country we have the luxury of being morally superior. Can we do this in a democracy where the voters are not educated? Is democracy a superior form of government, or does it have flaws that cannot be overcome?
Is democracy a superior form of government, or does it have flaws that cannot be overcome?
IMO, the answer is yes and yes.
I think that you’ve stated the essence of a liberal..to value people above all else. How much more eloquently simple can it be yet encompasses all.
To me that’s a philosophical question not really a political question and maybe that really is the difference between liberals and republicans or any others who aren’t ‘liberal’.
I’ve found out it’s not what other people want to label me as but what I want to label myself as that counts. Which means that I’m a human being with certain beliefs that are similar to many others but still unique to my personal inner conscience.
The inherent value and equality of every human, animal and all living things on the planet is reflected in how you treat those closest to you and grows outward from that premise for me.
A shorter version of my personal idea of liberal is; fuck prejudice, it’s the root of all evil in my book.
An interesting take on the history of liberalism from a dailyrepublican.com book review of Pierre Manent’s An Intellectual History of Liberalism [Princeton University, 128 pp, 1996. $19.95].
It touches on the inner tension between equality and despotism…something that I attempt to counteract with a ‘liberal’ seasoning of libertarian added to my belief in social programs.
As I started to post a comment I was perplexed so I went to the definition of liberal as found in dictionary as found on internet and I pretty much think the folowing is how I would define my own liberal views:
lib•er•al
Pronunciation: (lib’ur-ul, lib’rul), [key]
—adj.
….to value people above all else
I think that’s what the framer’s expressed in the preamble, and subsequent amendments to the constitution. Does that mean our founding document is “liberal”?
“Liberal” and “conservative” are perceptions, not belief systems, and change over time. Some ’50’s “conservatives” would be today’s “liberals”. I think the problems we face, and the solutions we offer are too complex to be reduced to a single descriptor.
Too many people attempt to define us into a box that we didn’t build, and can’t fit in. We all “value people above all else”, but that doesn’t make us “liberal”, it makes us human. I don’t know how to put a label on that.
Acknowledging relativistic arguments, “label” it may be. But Diane 101’s post provides 10 discerning definitions that remain constant throughout time.
The question is: Do your or I remain constant?
Test the definitions against your own attitudes. Do you ask yourself, “Yeah, so I’m like that now. But whose to say I’ll have the same beliefs in 5 years?” Or, put another way. “Are my beliefs really mine or are they convenient attitudes for the time being?”
I grant that one can “convert” to liberal attitudes (as defined earlier), but a true conversion to conservatism? Hmmm. . . From where I sit, I only beleive that’s possible if one wears “liberal” as a label and does not hold it as a belief. Easily, I may be wrong.
Just read the anecdotes above for examples of true believers.
There are several examples of conversion. Ronald Reagan for instance, during the McCarthy era was a liberal – and then he became an important precursor to the government we have now. Take Yitzhak Rabin and you have the flip side of the coin. The changes the Democrats and Republicans have gone through also mark a clear shift in beliefs.
I’d like to think I don’t remain constant in my views and am able to progress and learn, but I don’t see sacrificing humanism as a part of it. To me that would be regression.
I wrote a piece over at dkos in January listing what it meant to me to be a liberal… check it out if you are so inclined.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/1/15/25757/6457
Sounded good to me.
Good list and I would agree with most things on your list, though as I get older I’m beginning to have serious issues with democracy, at least the way it’s set up right now. If you vote on something that concerns you that is one thing, but if at the other extreme you vote on invading another country, that is an entirely different ball of wax. Democracy is proving no different than any other forms of government – you have good leaders, and bad ones. I always thought democracy is a progressive method, so why are we moving backwards? How can we elect someone who cannot comprehend the arsenal at his disposal let alone the language he uses. I equate this with going back in time can giving a Neanderthal some TNT so he can name himself king.