(Update [2005-4-29 5:22:20 by HadIt]:See this comment for the short version of what I meant to say.)
My First Post (at Booman)!
Kos (and others) have proposed a simple message to describe Democrats:
And I was thinking, that’s about it, really – we just haven’t gotten around to REPEATING IT that simply, PROVING IT with action, and SHOVING IT in the arch-conservative’s faces.
It really is what we believe, the GOP isn’t using that motto much at all, and more and more, people can see that the Republican ACTIONS are against that Democratic motto.
But… we are once again told that there’s no way to have a simple Democratic message. Kos’ statement has been analyzed and run through multiple computer simulations and a multiple PhD panel has concluded that the statement is not worth trying.
You see, we want too many good things that the GOP will say THEY want, too. There is NO simple statement that we, as Democrats, can put out there that will not be laughed at by conservatives.
So why bother?
Except for the last bit, so say some academic, liberal, bloggers.
(BTW, I like and respect those bloggers a lot! I just disagree.).
It’s a very David Brooks approach. Brooks works to seduce Dems into overanalyzing something that has some promise until they find undeniable fault with it. Then, of course, there’s no point in even trying it – “sigh – it’s doomed to failure”.
(“Oooh! We’re Doomed!”)
The problem I see is that everyone sliding down that this spiral of death ends up admitting they have no solution for this perplexing puzzle. Who, they seem to say, were those geniuses – GENIUSES! – that came up with
as the conservative motto? Wow, we really DO need an Apollo Project to come up with OUR simple phrase. My goodness, no real liberal would agree with any of those three points of Conservatism. And that is an ABSOLUTE REQUIREMENT for a useful motto – the other side must utterly disagree with it.
Well maybe I’m not a real Liberal, but:
- I would LOVE LOVE LOVE Low Taxes.
- I think happy traditional families ARE great!
- I REALLY want a strong military!
Now the problem pointed out by the others is, when you think too much about it, there are conditions to my support.
- I’m for low taxes BUT I know we need money to make our country work.
- Traditional families are great AND so are other families if they’re happy.
- I’m for a strong military AS LONG AS it protects and is not used abusively.
So, we are told, we overanalyzing liberals can not support the conservative motto. And that’s the GENIUS of conservatives! I mean, my God, before Frank Luntz, no one ever would have said “low taxes!” or “strong military!” Sheer brilliance!
What? We need some extreme phrases like this?
Dems want to make all families have some major oddity (like they don’t!)
Dems want to have a military armed with spitballs!
That’s a load of bullshit!
But how about this? A “moderate,” be it an independent or a rational, decent Republican, probably has the SAME DAMN reservations about the conservative motto.
And for an arch-conservative. Well, I’d propose that every word in that motto is also a mild lie. The extreme conservative philosophy – the REAL philosophy is not represented by those words. The conservative thinks:
- Low taxes: “I’m not for LOW taxes, I’m for NO taxes.”
- Traditional family values: “I’m not for ANY tradition, I’m for MY tradition.”
- Strong Military: “I’m not for a STRONG military, I’m for a DOMINATING military.”
The conservative motto is just a mildly agreeable set of phrases that almost no one can disagree with – in their precise meaning – but which everyone modifies in their own heads.
Damn it, they’ve just been saying it longer and refined it and DID THINGS while in power to make people BELIEVE IT!
So, screw all this hyper-analysis and get out there and say
“Democrats are the party for people who work for a living,”
“Democrats are the ONLY ones in the government that give a crap about YOU!”
“These bozos are trying to rip you guys to pieces and WE’RE trying to STOP THEM!”
And then ACT on those words!
Okay, just as long as you don’t make me frame anything. If I hear that word one more time …
Oh, and WELCOME! Hang out.
That is so comical. Look at my comments on his (same) diary at dKos.
Wish I could view your comments, Kos is down again. [5:54 a.m. PDT].
sigh… I see I’ve walked into a long running argument.
Yes I’ve read Lakoff, etc, and there’s lots to absorb and put into our bag of tricks and get to work.
I really didn’t think I was talking about that.
But, oh well.
I should just go jumping back into those religious arguments on Kos.
On second thought….
BTW, Thanks for the welcome!
we are agreeing with you.
Say what you mean, don’t ‘frame’.
Urp. Sorry. My cognitive skills are eroding.
Blame the wine.
Pass the bottle.
The only thing I frame is a nice picture…and I prefer a nice silver Tiffany frame.
I’m all for it. Fighting for the working man, the underdog in life, is the original good fight. It’s why I’m a Deomcrat, and could never be a Republican.
and anyone who agrees with him/her.
On point #3.
Why do you REALLY like a strong military?
This is a catch-22 dilemma and you have to be able to support it.
Because a weak or absent national defense sounds like a very bad idea. Strong: meaning competent, able to withstand attack, and protect us when we are really in danger.
Please, don’t read too much into any of those lists. Otherwise, it misses the point of the diary.
I accept your suggestion because we might just wander into other discussions, missing the point of this diary.
I guess we might get a chance to address this some other time. Maybe a “Militarism” diary or “Militarism and social or political issues”.
Thanks
Not “strong military”. It is, after all the Department of Defense.
Being as close to the military as I am I would like to chime in. I don’t know how the urban legend ever came about that Democrats aren’t for a strong military. I guess because I’m only 40 I don’t have enough life knowledge about where and when it started. Did it start over Vietnam? Based on my life experience and being in the military under Clinton, we received the largest pay increases ever under that administration. Training time and how much someone could be expected to be away from ones family was also looked at and redefined on the books to make sure that deployment and training time was saner for families, and it was black and white with no loopholes for commanders with grand visions to snake through. I didn’t much like Tricare at first, but lately I have got to say that it is a hell of lot better than what most people are dealing with concerning healthcare – and I’m very noisy now too and that helps. People who worry less about finances and their families have more to give to their jobs. My husband was a supply officer for awhile in between transitioning from one aircraft to another under the Clinton administration. I was working a lot then so didn’t pay a whole lot of attention to his daily rants, but I remember that because there were budget cutbacks some people began to feel like they were experiencing the cutbacks in their supply accounts even though later my husband seemed to think it was just an attitude in the air and not real on paper. There was a lot of accountability for what you spent supply money on back then. The accounts though now are the same size, all the money being thrown at Iraq doesn’t seem to have to be accounted for and it must be going to contractors because very little of it is going to the troops. In a chow hall over there halfway through the first year, my husband ran across a sign in front of the brownies that said “One Brownie Per Soldier Per Day”. He said he immediately grabbed two and pronounced that if he was going outrun bullets for the day he would have as many damn brownies as he pleased and they needed to get back there and make more brownies! And that’s just brownies….that isn’t something like armor and ammo. As for military folk jumping on TV and claiming that the Republicans support them and the Democrats abuse them, they work in an authoritarian patriarchal system. If they can’t disrobe from their work roles at night when they go home they are going to feel like the Republicans really are for them when they act like authoritarian dictators and I don’t know what to do about that. Our family speaks as much truth as we can, and as this war runs downhill it is getting easier and easier for those who want to speak and those who may want to listen just a little. My husband said that there was a huge “HIGH” on post during and after the elections. I was busy with other things and hadn’t been on post during that time. Nobody is coming home though, they haven’t loaded one single piece of equipment……..don’t know how many more faux highs our troops have in them. We had an election but no word of coming home at all, it feels like an emotional blackness is slowly seeping into everybody now on post. My husband says that many military are very unhappy about this war now but they “suck it up” because that is what most military does….even the spouses. The other day on Kos someone was talking about the hidden rewards to losing Daschle and even the Presidency in 2004. Perhaps this will also be another one of those things in the end. It makes me sick to think about it but maybe the military culture has valuable lessons to learn from its Republican worship. I’ll just have to look away a lot and I guess grow more tomatoes (that seemed to work when my husband was in Iraq).
Funding is an accident of timing. DoD isn’t shy about demanding – and usually getting – funding to maintain force structure. Prior to 9/11, the idiot in charge talked about “streamlining” and “realigning” our military. Translation: “privatize”. And abrogate our arms treaties, build missile defense, and legalize torture (which puts our people at risk everywhere – even as peacekeepers).
It’s never really been dems vs. reeps. But the American public seems to buy whatever the politicians are selling. The current idiots are the worst I’ve seen in 50 years for the people on the ground. No support going in, no support in-country, no support when they come home (debriefing/counseling), and no support when combat vets get discharged. The cut them off at the knees then brag about how well they adapt to prothestics.
How about Effective Military?
BTW…I am all for SIMPLE messages. The working masses have little time for most politic “stuff”.
Millions for defense. Not a penny for tribute.
Goes back to the 1790s, at least.
These days “aggression” needs to go right up there with “tribute.”
It’s a slogan, of course, but as slogans go I think it’s a good one.
We are the People, all three hundred million of us. People around here are tired of reading this, but: you don’t sell Chevys by slammin’ Fords [my dad’s first rule of sales]. When you talk about the issues make sure the context is “all of us”, not “us vs. them”.
I don’t have a problem with little “r” republicans. My problem is the extreme right-wing element that now controls the White House, and the leadership in Congress. Couple thousand people, max. That’s a far cry from tarring 51% of the voting public with the same brush.
Paraphrasing: It’s the people, stupid. If we don’t have a clear message drawn from a written set of principles, we end up where the party is now: dazed and confused. Power? Where is the fact that democratic senators & reps are the minority party, but represent a far larger percentage of the population than the majority?
Put the tar brush away, and try to remember that Clinton’s ass was saved by a Republican; and that Democrats voted in a block for the authorization to use force in Iraq; and yesterday the Republican House reinstated the bi-partisan ethics rules.
Every f*cking time I read the exclamation points and rage against the (Republican) machine I want to spit. The great Democratic Party machine has yet to produce a legislative agenda; flatten the power pyramid; fire the $5 million consultants; or shown a willingness to keep the “tent” open to all comers. The roots are strong, the tree is bent.
Most of us here read, understand, and act on issues we feel strongly about. We’re already doing as much as we can. Whether it’s money, letters, phone calls, or writing a diary. We aren’t “traditional families” (whatever the hell those are); we don’t hold “traditional values”; we are definitely not moral relativists; and our religious beliefs are our own damn business. We love our children, we work for a living, we support our causes and (amazingly in this medium) each other.
My core beliefs are contained in the Preamble to the Constitution. The most durable founding document in the world. No interpretation, “framing”, marketing, sloganeering, or party hacks required. You wanted simple? It’s been right in front of you for 214 years.
And then ACT on those words!
Pay attention not to what the (my) Democratic Party says, but what it does. I posted the following response to Kos’ statement. I believe I have accurately spoken to why Kos is wrong now, and why he will continue to be wrong in the future. I was not trying to be trollish, I think I was just telling the truth. For one to say that I am trying to tear something down, implies that one is satisfied with with what has been built.
I want to share with you an e-mail that I sent to Scott Kerwin yesterday. Scott runs ITPAA, a site primarily concerned with the offshoring of jobs.
I don’t know if you have seen this yet, I think it provides a pretty good contrapuntal picture between the perception and the reality. You made a post regarding House and Senate USINPAC supporters. I am a member of Daily Kos (http://dailykos.com/).
Today Markos Zúniga aka ‘Kos’ posted this on his sites front page:
The D Brand
The members of the dKos community bought this hook, line and sinker. To date, 496 comments basically towing the part line, along with a large number of them telling Kos what a genius his is for thinking this up.
No critical thinking, no follow up on whether in fact the party leadership actually reflects this thinking, nothing. Only about four questions total of the 496, two of them mine, about where the Democratic party leaderships money is coming from. These people really do actually think that the Democratic party still represents them, and they have spent a large portion of today, not questioning whether it still does represent them, but rather how they can make this brand ‘sing’ more effectively.
This morning I read this on Infoweek’s website:
Now, I can provide you with site (or cite) after site as to why, when Microsoft and other high tech companies are laying engineers off in record numbers, Bill Gates would want more H1B’s. I can provide you with cite after cite as to why Shirley Tilghman, president of Princeton University wants more H1B’s. We all know, I think, why this administration would want more H1B’s.
Why with all the evidence to the contrary, would Patrick Leahy want more H1B’s? As usual just follow the money. Parapharsing what I said on Kos, you have a slogan, Patrick Leahy has –
2004 (immigration) Lawyers: $515,342
2002 (immigration) Lawyers: $136,896
2000 (immigration) Lawyers: $149,126
2004 Microsoft: $15,400
2002 Microsoft: $8,650
2000 Microsoft: $7,150
With all respect, who do you think Patrick Leahy is going to take his marching orders from, Bill Gates and the lawyers, or Kos?
A lot of people have been hoodwinked in to thinking, as Bill Gates, Craig Barrett, and others have said, that these visas are being used to bring ‘the best and the brightest talent’ to the United States.
Here is another note that I sent to Scott recently.
Just wondering if you have seen this list on the
Programmers Guild web site.
Programmers Guild RIR
2004 Sacremento H1B’s
It is, I think, pretty reflective of what the H-1B
program has become.
Tax Associates, Web Developers, Interior Designers,
Latino Community Service Managers, Staff Pharmacists
at Longs Drug Stores, and Managers at Red Lobster
Restaurants.
This is just for Sacremento, and just for a portion of 2004. As I understand it, Kim Berry got nowhere with DOL on this.
This is what the Democratic Party represents. This program exploded under Bill Clinton, and Dianne Fienstein, my Senator, was right out there in front leading the parade.
The Democratic Party’s mantra should not be “the worker’s party.” That’s been done.
To beat the Republicans and to keep our rendez-vous with destiny, Democrats must be loud and proud to be the Party of Common Decency for Common Americans.
The motto is “Do the right thing.”
The platform is simple:
Let us restore America to her annointed place among nations by exercising common sense. A Democratic administration will achieve that result by behaving with common decency to all its citizens and to all other decent nations in common.
Often times, I can be too wordy.
When someone is too wordy, their point can get lost.
For anybody who thinks any of the following were my point:
You’re wrong.
My problem was THIS:
Matt, and some others are basically saying we can’t make claims like “We’re for fiscal responsibility” or “we’re for a living wage,” because conservatives will just come in and say…”yeah, well so are we. How are you different?”
My point was
1) No liberal, or moderate, or conservative really agrees with “low taxes, traditional family values, and a strong military,” so the same can be true for statements of Progressive values.
and
2) If you combine WORDS and ACTION, our statements of our moral core will ring true
– mainly because of our ACTIONS, but our WORDS will give description to those that look to us.