Italy Rebuts U.S. Report That Cleared G.I.’s in Killing
A 52 page exhaustive report on the shooting of Sgrena’s car, released today rebuts the US report released Saturday. But the article gives more space to the American report and its conclusion appears to back up the American report.
The report said that tensions along the expressway had been heightened by 135 insurgent attacks on the road in the previous four months, and that the platoon had been informed that two suspected suicide car bombers, one in a white car and the other in a black vehicle, had been spotted in the area. The Toyota involved in the shooting of the Italian was white.”
more…
The Italian report says this:
in response to the American report saying this:
The article gives the Americans the last word which I guess is only natural chauvinism.
Where are you Gilgamesh?
Update [2005-5-3 5:58:59 by sybil]:
There’s a diary by DuctapeFatwa on DKos reporting that Berlusconi edited the Italian Report!
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Very suspicious!
Have the old westerns of John Wayne been forgotten?
White hat are the good guys …
Does the present generation have any knowledge of American heritage!
Oui – Liberté – Egalité – Fraternité
Good analogy. Not only do they have the knowledge, a few of them have the same gun-toting habits of the Old West. You know, ‘shoot first, ask questions later.’
John Wayne did not have satellite imagery.
There was a claim from CBS on 29 April, copied by Reuters, that there was statellite imagery of the whole scene proving the Italian car was speeding. The claim was dropped when the LA TImes copied the Reuters report.
Can’t these newspapers do their own reporting?
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… I know what I’m doing is right. He was gunning for me.
[not quite verbatim from John Wayne]Could also be the words of Jeb Bush after latest Florida Law on the right of self-protection.
Shoot first, ask questions later or ..
fire two shots, first to kill and a second as warning in the air.
Oui – Liberté – Egalité – Fraternité
to the next guy.
“Anyone else want a taste of American frontier justice?”
White and Black are both ‘bad guys’ in Iraq. The only good guys are in humvees wearing desert camouflage.
Thx, Sybil. Recommended ductapefatwa’s diary too.
Thank you, Susan.
Another great diary on Sgrena here which is an indepth analysis and debunking of the American report.
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If it’s true – the revolution must start sooner than later!
Bush – Blair – Berlusconi [BBB] BS*3
Oui – Liberté – Egalité – Fraternité
Bush and Blair delivered some swift kicks to Berlusconi’s backside after he announced in March Italy’s unilateral withdrawal of troops beginning in September.
What he really meant to say on national television (after calls from George and Tony) was that he hoped that Italy could begin a withdrawal in September, but only if conditions permitted, and with agreement from the allies in the coalition forces.
He learned his lesson – keep the troops in Nassiriya at all costs.
what do you need me to do?
You’ve got it covered.
Juts change the title, perhaps:
Lady Gray (NYT) stands by her man (GWB)
You expect us to rely on the New York Times for an accurate analysis of the Italian report.
Have you read the It. report?
Senile Gray Lady stands by her twit (GWB)
here’s an answer for the NYT from Il Manifesto:
I will try to procede seriatum and in the simpkest possible manner in order to render the text comprehensible even to the mental faculties of the predient of the US.
indeed it’s stupefying that they actually deafeted the Germans and exterminated the indians, who however, wern’t familiar with Word nor Acrobat, while it’s clear that Al Zarkawi and Mulah Omar have mastered Excel and the excellent Microsot Pinball.
3) The soldier Lozano, who shot at the Toyota carying Caliprai, Sgrena and a second agent, was from the NY national guard, newly arrived in Iraq. He was supposed to hold a falshlight, illuminate the car, evalaute the velocity, put the falshlight down, pick up and aim the
gun, and shoot in less than seven seconds. These are the wise US rules of engagement written for Supreman. It’s surprising that their’s anyone living left in Iraq.
4) The American sqadron which improvised a check point waiting for Ambassor negropente, but noone knew, howvere, whether he was to arrive by helicopter, automomibile, spaceship, on skateboard, or on a camel.
The ambassdor fortutiouslyl escaped the dreaded check point with a clever trick: col cazzo che é passato di lì (sorry untranslatble).
5) The teleophones didn’t work, they didn’t use the radio, in the chain of command there’s a whole of about an hour, during which the famous technolocigal warriors of the US went o get a coffee, or went to play with their playstations, or _ with the last edition of Playboy..
and it continues on in like manner
Some of the humor gets lost in translation.
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doesn’t do badly relative to George W.
Silvio at least owns the Italian Media, can fire journalists and editors at will. Just about stopped all judicial investigation into his Imperium – Italian Dream – from ship’s gigolo to his lucrative financial empire, mansions etc.
Should he lose the next election, Silvio doesn’t have to return to a farm in Midland, Tx but will most likely continue with AC Milan, the Media and commercial business, which lucrative enterprises he never halted during his presidency.
Oui – Liberté – Egalité – Fraternité
Bitter sarcasm comes through the translation.
Have you read the Italian report? Is it available online?
We do not to rely on the New York Times’ whitewash.
Looks like the Italian report was edited by Berlusconi. He likely sent an apology to Bush for the Italian General getting in the way.
Here’s the report. It’s in Italian obviously.
Haven’t had time to read the whole thing. I can list mots of the alient points of divergence,according to il Manifesto and other sources:
1)The BP 544 was badly organized, on an extremely short ramp and there were NO signs or signals.
2) It was badly managed and the communciations were disastous [my words]. The commander, amon other things, didn’t inform the platoon at the BP that Negroponte’s convoy had aleardy passed. Therefire the mobile BP was never dismatled as it should have been.
3)The Italian commiosn members reject the testimy of the troops as contradictory and accept those of Sgrean and the drive as “coherent and plausible”. The car was going at 40-50 k/hr, was about to make an elbow curve on a wet street and was invested, simultanously, by the
searchlight and the bullets.
4) Accroding ot the Italians, the troops at the check point coudn’t possibly see the car approaching the point in which the declare that they shined the spotlights as thr fist warning signal.
“The troops assert that the serachlight was pointed ahead of the Line of allert (120 meters from thier post). This doen’t seem possible becasue the Line of allert waS at the limit of visibility and you can”t point a searchligth at something you cannot see.
I noticed that one of the Yahoo news article headlines (via Reuters) was “Italy rules out intentional U.S. killing of agent”. Headlines are key, and this one focused on the fact that it wasn’t a deliberate assassination rather than the military communication breakdown. The article itself outlines the Italian report in a balanced way IMHO, but I found the headline to be poorly written.
if you have time, check out what The Guardian blog wrote about this? Since you know the details?
Report Acrobatics
snippet:
The Political Animal blog from the Washington Monthly – our source here – has an interesting comments section where the users try to answer that age-old question: was it cock-up or conspiracy? I find it hard to find believe the Pentagon would want to release information that could compromise the safety of its soldiers but that does not mean there are not others who can.
Even if Rome and Washington avoid doing damage to the relations between them, the shooting and the competing reports are shaping up to be a bust-up in the blogosphere. Two verdicts on the same incident would inevitably fuel arguments but when the attacks towards Ms Sgrena from the angry right are factored in – largely because she criticised the soldiers who shot at her – this looks like one that will run and run. Two reports will seem modest by comparison.