This article from The Independent gives a good comparison between British debating style,
their interaction with their politicians and American lack of debate
along with deference to Senators.
Galloway: The man who took on America
How did one maverick MP manage to outgun a committee of senior US politicians so successfully? And did he make any lasting impact? Rupert Cornwell reports from Washington, 19 May 2005 […]
We tend to see politics as a public bloodsport. In the US politics is as brutal as anywhere. But the violence usually takes place off-stage, in the lobbying process, in the money game, in the ruthless manipulation of scandal. True, every four years there are presidential election candidates’ “debates”. But – with the exception of Bill Clinton – every recent American president would have been slaughtered weekly if he had to face Prime Minister’s Questions. On the public stage, US politicians are not accustomed to serious challenge.[…]
more below…
Oops, touché – does that mean that you think the Senate is NOT the “world’s greatest
deliberative body?”
How could you say that, you cruel Brit writer! Actually it was a great ‘body’
when Galloway was speaking. Unfortunately most of the great deliberators/Senators
left the room long before Galloway finished his speech.
The New York Post’s Andrea Peyser called Galloway a thug, a bully, a left-lackey and a viper.
Guess she didn’t like him. I thought he was a Don Quixote throwing
aside the US rules for the Senate and using his visit to slam the US
for the military action in Iraq. He didn’t forget to say “I told you so” either.
“Now, Senator, I gave my heart and soul to oppose the policy that you promoted. I gave my political life’s blood to try to stop the mass killing of Iraqis by the sanctions on Iraq which killed one million Iraqis, most of them children, most of them died before they even knew that they were Iraqis, but they died for no other reason other than that they were Iraqis with the misfortune to born at that time. I gave my heart and soul to stop you committing the disaster that you did commit in invading Iraq. And I told the world that your case for the war was a pack of lies.
“I told the world that Iraq, contrary to your claims did not have weapons of mass destruction. I told the world, contrary to your claims, that Iraq had no connection to al-Qaeda. I told the world, contrary to your claims, that Iraq had no connection to the atrocity on 9/11 2001. I told the world, contrary to your claims, that the Iraqi people would resist a British and American invasion of their country and that the fall of Baghdad would not be the beginning of the end, but merely the end of the beginning.
“Senator, in everything I said about Iraq, I turned out to be right and you turned out to be wrong and 100,000 people paid with their lives; 1600 of them American soldiers sent to their deaths on a pack of lies; 15,000 of them wounded, many of them disabled forever on a pack of lies.
.
Just like British political debate, no smooth talking —
Love this quote, raw and true. Therefore I’m sure across the pond, no one will comprehend its meaning.
PS Does any one have a quality VIDEO link of the best 47 minutes – Galloway before the US Senate?
Oui – Liberté – Egalité – Fraternité
It’s here:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8869.htm
http://homepage.mac.com/onegoodmove/movies/galloway.html
.
British MP Galloway Shames Sen. Coleman & Bush’s
‘Oil-for-Food’ Sycophants in Remarkable Testimony!
Brad’s Blog and link to full transcript and video.
Shades of Orwell and the Memory Hole?
Oui – Liberté – Egalité – Fraternité
From the Economist: “Gorgeous George takes the stand (behind subscription wall).
The rest of the story is not so kind to Gorgeous George (apparently there are questions about Fawaz Zureiqat) or the Russians but I do love the way they write, even when I disagree with them.
Unfortunately, the cameras didn’t pan on the Senators leaving the chamber. I wonder at what point did they begin to leave. Did they leave all at once like sheep?
From the National Review:
Alex Massie who writes for the Scotsman doesn’t like Galloway but I don’t see the evidence, except for this line:
Hitchens reminded Galloway that “you lied under oath Mr. Galloway. You lied when you said never supported Saddam Hussein. We have your quotes.
The quotes from Galloway to Saddam are full of flattery, but wouldn’t that be necessary in order to survive the visit? What did Rumsfeld say to Saddam, for example? The article shows that Massie hates Galloway for his pacifism but doesn’t offer any proof of Galloway’s corruption.
In one sense it would be preferable if Galloway has indeed received money from the corruption of the Oil-for-Food program, and not just because that would sweetly vindicate his many enemies. Mere illegality would be preferable to the shabby (to be kind) morality Galloway’s unctuous support for Saddam displayed. […]
Galloway is smart enough to realize that the current investigations, too murky for many readers and too complicated for the television news bulletins, work in his favor. They give him a reason to continue the war against the war by other means, chipping away at the war’s legitimacy and sapping the willingness of the American and British peoples to see their troops sent into action again, should that ever prove necessary. (The real damage done by the failure to find WMDs is the impact it will have on the public’s trust in intelligence and political leadership in the event of future emergencies.)[…]
And Galloway is winning beyond Bethnal Green. “Why oh why are our Democratic leaders not capable of straight talking like Galloway? There is nothing he said that is wrong or false and the impact will be immense. I accuse our democratic leadership of being pathetic wimps who would do well to emulate this superb performance” was one all too typical comment at the liberal blog Daily Kos. Many other posts saluted, to coin a phrase, Galloway’s courage, strength, and indefatigability.
Thanks for posting the articles, Sybil. No matter what Galloway’s background may be, I just can’t get enough of this – particularly from a UK perspective.
And I can’t count the number of times I’ve watched the British Parliament in session thinking that GWB would be instant toast in that environment.
That’s what he puts on the hook when he’s fishin’ w/ Poppy- Bah!
Sybil, set your width from width:600px to width:400px.
TY!
I did on the diary, but cannot fix the comment.
It’s cool. Actually, now that I think about it, what I should have suggested was eliminating the width setting entirely. Booman’s page set-up will automatically set your quote blocks to the perfect width. So this — width:600px — is removed.
Love this diary. I love Galloway. He has a pair, eh?
Yes because the width is already established by the other blockquotes. In a “virgin” diary, you can try the blockquote without a width setting, and it’ll work.
became apparent too late
for us to do anything good about it.
John Ashbery
OK
There are some basic differences between the US Congress and the British Parliament. More in a bit…
There are also obvious similarities between the Senate/House of Reps and the 2 chambers in Britain.
Galloway v Senate was a real crossover match! It pitched a member of one’s lower chamber against members of the other’s ‘upper chamber’.
A boxer against wrestlers – and, in the short contest, boxers always win, especially when bare-knuckled.
But the main difference in systems is in the British exposure of Cabinet members (who sit in the chamber) to not only their ‘Shadow’ opponents (who are specialists) but to the chamber as a whole. And particularly to the regular weekly exposure of the Prime Minister to a barrage of entirely unrehearsed questions. (though not entirely unpredictable questions – you will see that Ministers have a briefing book in front of them)
The system certainly teaches Ministers to be fully briefed on their subjects and to be able to think on their feet.
In the Presidential system, the President is not required to face any such PUBLIC questioning, or indeed to be an expert on anything except in delivering scripted monologues. Neither are members of the Presidential Cabinet required to face free questioning from their peers. Or not their peers, indeed, since most of them are not democratically elected by the enfranchised population as a whole.
As you point out above, the free debate (found throughout European parliamentary systems) is the crucial difference. And, added to that, an historical tendency for multi-party systems.
In Finland, for instance, there are 5 to 6 main parties. Governments are usually coalitions of two or three parties, with perhaps one or two ministers from even small parties outside the coalition.
Of course, change is slow under such conditions. Consensus has to be sought. Changes in laws tend to be small corrections to adapt to changing conditions rather than radical new directions.
But I am increasingly happy to be a citizen in such a system. Single-minded majorities seem to be one of the most dangerous threats we face today. Because all the OTHER real problems that we face today (political, religious, territorial, environmental, poverty, equality, health etc) have to be solved by taking into consideration all points of view GLOBALLY.
It is not US and THEM, we are all in this together.
Thank you for the description. Did you mention the lawyers.
The American politicians leave too much to their lawyers. They sit behind them on all the committees. Galloway was lawyerless, “bare-knuckled” as you say.
There are plenty of lawyers in the UK too.
Michael Howard (Leader of the Tories) is one. And of course courtroom lawyers (as opposed to corporate) tend to be good at the cut and thrust of debates.
The interesting point is how certain professions will colour the entire business/political/cultural enviroment. In Finland perhaps 70% or so of CEOs are engineers. But Finland is a society that stepped straight from te Agrarian Age into the electronic global village more or less missing out the social and cultural fragmentation of the Industrial Revolution.
‘Ain’t no Luddites here’
I say we should hire him to come over here and talk to our congress on a regular basis, but I bet they won’t have him back again.
I think in someways he has given our press the courage to stand up to the Pres. Call me naive but I think he was a turning point and something that gave us all hope.
Maybe more from other countries will stand up to Bush in the same way.
And yes,,,,,,, he did have an inpact, we shall see as to how much but I am extremenly hopeful at this point.
The right wing press is trying to discredit him but
they offer nothing new in the way of evidence.
Yes he is a maverick, extreme in his views, but we
need these people.
We need people with the courage of Malcom X right now.
Thanks for your optimism Diane. After reading the story
and viewing the videos of the Afghan prisoners, I am
feeling quite desolate today.
I know this is a reach, but… damn, he kicked ass for a short time, there! I wish I could have traded places with him, and spoke my mind… Ah… who am I kidding… rank has privileges… he flies back to Scotland after his appearance… Sir Dood gets an all expenses paid trip to Guantanamo Bay…
You have some very funny stuff. Keep it up!
I’m very flattered!
I think he did have impact, and it will likely have the effect that Dean did early on (Iraq is wrong) – shake up the media, and remove the top ten stories from that political ivory tower in D.C.
“Reader, suppose you were an idiot; and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself.” Mark Twain
Ministers have been warned they face a “complete strategic failure” of the effort to rebuild Afghanistan and that 5,500 extra troops will be needed within months if the situation continues to deteriorate.
Defence analysts say UK forces are already so over-stretched that any operation to restore order in Afghanistan can only succeed if substantial numbers of troops are redeployed from Iraq, itself in the grip of insurgency.
The UK contribution to the Nato-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Afghanistan presently stands at fewer than 500, compared with the contribution of 8,000 troops to the Coalition presence in Iraq.
Planners at the UK military’s Northolt headquarters have drawn up emergency proposals to send up to 5,500 troops to Afghanistan to help avert a descent into more widespread bloodshed.
As well as increasing the British presence in Afghanistan 10-fold, it would require additional funding of almost £500m. link