First of all, hello to everyone at booman. I have registered here as result of the recent spats at dailyKos and I’d like to try out an idea here on friendly turf before cross-posting.
First, from my imaginings about what must go in Markos mind: Markos doesn’t want to have to be an advertisement policeman. I can understand that he would not want to have to patrol his ads, or to set the precedent that he would do so. He probably takes a “package” of ads of some sort, and would find it somewhat difficult to pick and choose ads on a regular basis. Also, he does not want to lose the revenue generated by the ads that get placed on his site.
Second, many people, including me, find the ad in question to at least be “out of place” on the dailyKos site. Some find it downright insulting, and I tend to agree. My reaction was to ignore it and keep plowing through the meat of the diaries and comments on important topics. However, I could not help but be pulled into the fray, and I responded deep into a 500+ comment diary with the following proposal:
If Kos is happy that the ad is generating revenue and is not in the least concerned that some find it offensive, I do not agree with him. However, he is also human and deserves forgiveness if he will take the ad down and replace it with something else. If he does so, I will post a diary asking everyone to please click thru on every ad he posts to replace it. If he does not replace it – I may leave, too.
Does anyone think that this idea is worth pursuing?
In a later reply in the same thread, I said:
I do not buy the idea that successful compromise always leads to neither side being happy. I feel that this is a defeatist attitude. Compromise can sometimes lead to both sides being happier than they were before. Hence, my suggestion that if Kos took down the ad, I would spearhead a movement to make sure that his revenue from ads INCREASED. To me, this seems to be a good compromise. Those who are offended wouldn’t have to look at the ad in the sidebar, and Kos wouldn’t lose ad revenue. The proposed solution requires Kos to take the ad down, but requires those who object to it to click thru the replacement. Then we could move on without losing valuable voices in the community and Kos could continue to generate the revenue he needs to power this site. Everybody gets what they want in return for some minor inconvenience to both sides.
If we vote with our clicks at dailyKos, we might get some response. If we enrich his pocketbook by clicking on replacement ads furiously and quickly, and promise to click an ad every time we go to the site, wouldn’t that be constructive and helpful to Markos AND the community AND the website itself?
He came out and said that he has refused ads in the past. So the assumption that he doesn’t want to arbite ads isn’t quite correct. He also came out and said he did preview that ad and found it acceptable in the first place.
Pie’s old news. Pie isn’t the point. The community got way out of hand and site management did nothing to step in and calm things down. That’s reason enough to leave.
Speaking only for myself, if the pie ad comes down, it’ll be a positive step. But it doesn’t resolve the core problems over there. Let those that remain deal with it. I’d rather move on in an environment that is ready to deal with real issues because its already figured out how to handle keeping the discussion civil.
Booman isn’t a rebel base to plot changes for dKos. Its its own place, with its own values. I like that.
Well, not so much actively figured out how to keep things civil as passively stayed small enough — so far — to retain a community where everyone basically knows each other. And it’s had such a low profile until now that it’s avoided trolls.
There’s also a honeymoon period where most of the users have a common cause and a common enemy (feminism and fratboys, respectively). I wouldn’t automatically assume that things are going to go smoothly if BMT is successful in the weeks and months to come. That needs to be ensured.
The idea that only good people from dKos came over here in the schism and so everything is going to be hunky-dorey is mistaken for a variety of reasons.
on all points.
But the substantive difference I’ve seen is in priorities.
Booman (and others) value this place as a functioning community. I don’t see any small-focused lists of priorities here, with caveats that anything else is simply permissable.
Its not gonna be utopia. But it may be to more folks liking.
At least the emphasis is in the right places.
As much as I agree that growth brings change with it, awareness of the potential problems and a dedication by all of us a responsible citizens of BMT of the things you mention, I really think we can maintain much of the flavor of this site and the way we have experienced it so far.
We have the opportunity to do that, we will face challenges for sure, but I think a determination to face those challenges early and often will help us to mold the ideal we hope for.
OK, points well taken. This is not a “rebel base to plot changes”. I didn’t mean it that way… I will stay silent here until I have something more important to say that might contribute to this particular community.
Also, I wasn’t aware that the ad was previewed and approved. It was hard to keep up with all the different threads rolling by so quickly.
I also agree that the comments were what got out of hand. I thought that even at this late date, if the ad were taken down, it might help send a belated message and give the proprietor of the site a face-saving way out of a bad situation.
I hope you folks won’t hold a feeble attempt to make some kind of peace at the other site against me in the future.
And – the poll says everything => don’t bother. So thanks for everyone’s input.
I’m really going to hate myself for weighing in on this. Believe me, I tried to stay out of this discussion – I really tried.
If the community in its entirety did such it wouldn’t be worth hanging around anyway, eh? If a half dozen individuals piled on you some merciful soul here would come to your defense, or not. In the case of “or not” you could learn to throw a rhetorical elbow or head butt back at the offenders, or you could just walk away.
Circular firing squad
The following is not directed to you as an individual, but is to the online progressive community at large:
The energy expended on this issue is astounding – it has all of the mechanical aspects of of a junior high school lunch room (forgive me that snark, I’ve been working with a lot of junior high kids this week).
If you don’t like a site, walk away, just don’t give the right wingnut’s Mighty Wurlitzer and our lazy media enablers any ammunition.
Yes, all the opinions, feelings and experiences on this issue are (usually) genuine, but hasn’t this distracted us from using our rhetorical skills on the people responsible for this?:
http://www.icasualties.org/oif/
And this?:
Social Security privatization
And this?:
Memo? What memo?
And this?:
Boeing! Boeing! Boeing!
Just to name a few.
No wonder we lose elections.
I agree with you that it is now time to move on. However, I would like to promote the general value of looking for viable ways to resolve disputes among “us”.
I tried mightily to stay out of the whole thing myself. However, since I used to view that other site as a team and not just another blog to walk away from, I thought I’d throw an idea out there to try to bring the “team” to its senses. The one thing missing in all the threads I was able to read over there was that no one offered any ideas for resolving the conflict.
Now, I’m going to click on some ads here….
Walk away. Mutually assured destruction only works as a deterent when there are actual weapons of mass destruction.
paradocs, you are soooo correct!
(your link didn’t work for me though)
That was the old Lunaville list of Billmon’s compiled WMD quotes by the asses of evil. Apparently Winston Smith has worked through his backlog.
Try this link.