I’m trying to decide if this is a temper issue or an ego issue. If it was a Republican I’d immediately say the latter, but my heart doesn’t want to go there… Some items from his posting jump out at me:
“IPDI is the Institute for Politics, Democracy, and the Internet at George Washington University. They are led by a woman called Carol Darr.”
Carol’s name identifies her as a woman; saying “a woman called Carol Darr” raised my eyebrows that maybe he does have an issue with women, as others are saying – otherwise why say it that way? Or am I being too inquisitorial?
“The hopelessly naive, astonishingly ill-informed comment starts like this”
You know, dKos isn’t a little anonymous blog anymore. It would seem a little bit of temperance is called for in comments that are being seen by the opposition, the media, and senators for crying out loud. It’s not like it’s Dem-in-Knoxville saying it. Also, not everyone is as up to date on the topic as Kos. Comes across as really hot-headed? does he intend that or is he reacting without thinking whether that’s what he really wants to say / how he wants to say it?
“So much crap to sort through it’s hard to know where to start.”
“What a steaming pile of you know what!”
“Make no mistake, this attempt by Ms. Darr is just the latest by academic pinheads to degrade the role of citizens in the media space. They once dominated the industry, and can’t stand that literally anyone and EVERYONE is now media.”
His position may have merit, I haven’t followed the issue all that closely, but comments like these and threatening emails are not going to help his cause.
There are no secrets in cyberspace. He knows that.
Was he acting rashly or doesn’t he care? Who knows?
(shaking head sadly)
One final thought: Markos, as one who is ever in your debt for all that dKos has given me in the way of community and information: Decaf is your friend.
He wrote another more diplomatic letter. He was surprised that the woman published his email instead of responding directly to him. The sie is down for maintenance right now.
Blame it on his youth. In this game, one does not want to give one’s adversaries any material whatsoever. It saves them from having to make stuff up.
and with all due respect to the poster above – in the context of the FEC regulating blogs political activity – what the IPDI submitted is everything Kos wrote and more. Atrios had similar sentiments.
the group Kos is sending oh so inappropriate emails to a staffer of thinks YOUR political speech on a blog that also attempts to raise any funds for a candidate should be effectively shut down.
whatever your differences with Kos – cheering on the folks he’s fighting with over this is downright foolish and short sited. The fact that he and several notable right wing bloggers worked together to draft and submit statements on this ought to show the stakes.
if you want to take “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” all the way – I hear that Liddy Dole, Sean Hannity, and Rush Limbaugh are all none to fond of Kos…
I hardly think that the post above refers to my comment since I just defended Kos over in BooMan’s latest article.
In case that it is, I was talking about giving fodder to one’s adversaries which they can later use in an attempted smear. I came to Booman by invitation a while back, not over ‘differences with Kos.’
and the fact that the name is Carol doesn’t automatically show she’s female. There are guys named Carol, Tracey, Torii. It could also be his manner of speaking. I write much the same way, but i’m not sexist. i’m redundant. i could say “a guy called robert thompson mowed my lawn” just as easily as i could say “a woman named stephanie jones said tickets went on sale for the rolling stones yesterday”
I love the energy around Daily Kos, I like most of Markos’ writing, and I will always be grateful to him for working so hard at creating such a great internet resource, arguably even a movement. But he needs to grow up.
Kos was intentionally sidelining women’s “pet issues”… he obviously thinks he has the power to guide and influence the “net roots” and the women revolted.
They keep saying it was about the ad… it was about the feeling that he was … intentionally stifling the women’s issues voice in the “netroots”.
All I’m criticizing here is the lack of professionalism in threatening someone and saying “fucking” in a communication he ought to have guessed would be outed. I don’t think this makes any difference to the FEC decision. I was just bummed that he sounded like an angry young man, not the public leader he’s become for better or worse.
I have explained elsewhere my sadness over Markos’ and his blog’s general failure to take women’s issues seriously, as an issue whose advancement improves all of us. But I don’t think the fact that Ms. Darr is a woman or that Markos used a threat against her coworker are evidence of mysogyny, nor am I going to go sleuthing to build such a case against him.
It is clear that he is using his position to “influence” agendas, well he obviously thinks so by this letter. This can be a great thing for drumming up support for candidates or fundraising. Even advocacy of the netroots with the FEC (but not in this manner, of course)… so isn’t it just possible he was using this same “influence” to stifle debate of women’s issues in the netroots?… just make you wonder.
My thoughts exactly. I often wonder how much of the frat boy talk you see on many sites, not just Kos, has to do with anonymity and how much has to do with age. As a young person entering the working world, you look around and realize you have to act “grown-up” and eventually you do grow up. Those who spend most of their time behind a computer screen may get fewer of the social cues that tell them whether their behavior is appropriate.
I followed (sort of) the issue that prompted the email. The FEC is considering regulating blogging in a similar way as political monetary contributions, which may affect each and every one of us in ways we don’t like.
Markos obviously is dead-set against attempts to regulate, and Carol Darr has made statements to the FEC in support of regulations, claiming that is will erase the “privileges” that traditional journalists enjoy. As if the media has done anything recently deserving of privileges.
I’ve only seen the dust-up through Markos’ lens, but I agree with his general position, though I hadn’t seen the email until just now. I have to say, I’m a bit relieved to that women aren’t the only ones he doesn’t know how to “fucking” talk to.
I suppose he had a point…you can’t expect to put limits on the net roots, but still take their money when it suits you. But I also know that no one takes you seriously in the professional world for gratuitous swearing. Especially in written communication. Maybe he doesn’t care because, regardless of swearing, if he can damage the economically they will take him seriously. I’m not as sure as he is, though, that he can do that. We’ll see. But if he can’t, his credibility is doubly affected.
Hmm, maybe I should be pitching myself as his communications consultant 😉
The man is not only suffering from testosterone poisoning, but — as I have long expected — is not even an actual progressive. Anyone who would make such a crass and puerile threat is a Republican at heart.
The man needs to be outed. Boxer and Garofalo need to be contacted immediately.
If you want to know why he could make such a threat (against such a deserving enemy), check his traffic levels in the blogsphere.
No, I would say that anyone, male or female, who’s stupid enough to support a corrupt establishment media over the blogsphere and who’ll work to destroy the tools we’ve been developing over the last few years is free to do so.
ragnark,
I am not sure why you would use such a demeaning phrase as “stupid question”. I personally have yet to receive a stupid question and have been around this planet more than 5 decades. Just a question, not an attack. The goal as I see it here at BMT is open discussion, further content and create solutions or strategies to counter the creeping fascism that is beginning to permeate our government. Just an observation.
Very true, and thanks for that reminder. I just think there’s becoming a glee around this site in attacking Markos in any way, shape or form. He has made many decision and said many things I’ve disagreed with, including the letter being referred to. But a question like “so he uses his power and stature to influence debate” seems to me to be a way to define a natural process as something nefarious purely to try to show how bad and evil kos is. It seems useless and unfair to me.
I appreciate your furthering your explaination and I do agree with your primary point. I lurked over a Dkos once in a while, so have no desire to continue with the diatribe about the appropiateness or degression of markos or armando. I am sure when things cool down, level heads will prevail and we can move forward in our quest to remove the extremists who seem bent on the destruction of our constitution, our freedom of choice and our human rights. I am glad you are here and thanks for being a part of BMT.
from testosterone poisoning. Actually, I hate that phrase, but I take it to mean “We’re men and most of us are prone to losing our tempers, awareness of which can help us get along with ourselves and others much better.”
I don’t think it’s fair to call Markos not a progressive. He created Daily Kos in some part to advance the idea that being partisan for the Democratic Party is the most strategic way to advance more general progressive goals. You may not agree with that approach, but I’d argue that’s a difference in strategy more than goals. He has some big blind spots obviously, but he’s not a DINO.
at least in a few cases. It all parallels the intramural attacks on Dean far too well. If someone’s done so many good things that we can (hopefully) all agree upon, let’s try to offer constructive criticism, then get our eyes back on the prize right away.
I do think that this sort of unprofessional behaviour, especially in print, doesn’t aid any fight – however righteous.
I also think that it is foolish to make such a threat without knowing how much influence one really has: DK may have 50,000 registered members – but that isn’t how many he can influence, and there are many thousands of other blogs out there.
I don’t disagree with his position on this particular issue – just his behaviour and I think he is over-reaching himself, and developing a marked degree of hubris.
sorry, but I think ‘visiting’ and ‘being influenced’ are being conflated. I visit a lot of places, but am influenced by very few, and influenced to act by even fewer.
Well, I don’t think I’m conflating, but I have a much lower threshold for “being influenced” than you do, which is fine! I mean that they get information from the site which factors into their thinking. And so a mere visit would do that, I think. But I understand where you’re coming from.
I am curious as to why you continually wish to make such sweeping sweeping generalizaions that are inflamatory?
I have been all over this site from top to bottom day in and day out and I do not see the kos hatred that you speak about. Disagreement, disappointment, sometimes unfair remarks, but I do not see what you say you are seeing.
Please agree or disagree with others view, but these type of statements which appear to be unfounded for the most part serve no purpose to further the dialog.
People reacted without knowing jack. It was KOS. KOS do bad thing? Yay! Bad KOS!
So, I correct the misimpressions and misinformation from the Usual Suspects and get both 4’s, from those paying attention, and flack from those who are upset at the interruption in the pissing contest with KOS.
that as DailyKos has progressed, its creator has regressed?
Don’t get me wrong. What he has done is admirable.
Unfortunately, we know from history that the rot generally sets in when the massas of the known universe get beside the point.
Kos jets to Britain to do columns in the Guardian about the election. He huddles with Dem bigwigs. He’s on panels. He’s interviewed at Air America and on cable. He’s becoming more visible. Note, this is not jealousy–I am simply stating fact. DailyKos has filled a vacuum that was yawning in front of us and sucking us all in.
And yet, Kos had better be careful. I ain’t lying. That makes for two stupid things he’s done.
this won’t turn into an attack thread against Kos. I too have my issues with the sexism on that blog and that’s why I spend most of my time here now. But a lot of good stuff IS going on over there (i.e. all the DSM efforts to get the word out, which obviously brought results), and I think we should refrain from harping on each other’s weakness and stick to the discussion of the issues themselves. JMHO.
Too late! I’m happy you said something, but people are now bashing him — for issues completely unrelated to the unfortunate incident — as a rite of inclusion and a rite of cohesion.
I wonder how many of the people saying Markos got his due actually have read IPDI’s letter to the FCC, or understand its implications. I appreciate the anger at Kos, and I agree wholeheartedly with the complaints of callousness, but for some people it’s like Bush got stale so people took the first chance to be part of a fresh Manichean thought system. People above claiming this as evidence he has a problem with women when the email wasn’t even to Carol Darr (it was to Scott Thomas)? Huh? I wish I’d taken sociology so that I could understand it all better.
I think you’re all on Kos’ side in this one! Educate yourselves about why he made the statement he did, and ask yourself, and then ask yourself if you wouldn’t of written the same thing he did. You don’t have to take up opposite “anti-” positions just because you don’t like the guy!
If there’s anyone else out there who wasn’t familiar with IPDI (the complainants to the FEC in DOP’s link) – attached is a link to IPDI’s position on Internet Communications as they relate to media exemptions under campaign finance laws.
In summary, they’re recommending that the FEC impose regulations for Internet fundraising.
(I regret that I lack the skills to make the link look pretty – or hide it under a clever phrase. But here you go, in it’s most basic format – PDF, by the way)
Thanks for the tip – I’ll give it a shot next time an opportunity arises for a link.
I didn’t attach the link to contribute to the current discussion at hand – I only attached it for anyone (shamefully, like myself) who may not be familiar with IPDI and what role they play in the big picture.
I used to visit dkos a lot and occasionally here, and think that kos is doing a wonderful job with what his goals are: develop a partisan political site devoted to netroots and elections. I started visiting dkos in the fall prior to the election when I became addicted to the campaign and the addiction has weakened but I still need a daily dose. I haven’t always been completely comfortable at that site, because of language. Not because I’m some prude who has never cussed before but because I believe that it shows a lack of respect for other people.
I believe that many so called indies would really vote dem if they understood what we would like to see accomplished but I wouldn’t recommend dkos to many of my colleagues because I know they would be turned off by the vulgarities and miss the important messages.
I read the stuff over there about the FEC and I think what kos was unprofessional and unproductive. This kind of attitude does not win anyone over and often hardens people against you. It is not useful in influencing people Not just the vulgarity but the Sopranoesque threat voiced in the statement…
About the pie wars, I was swamped with work and really missed most of what was happening, but I think it is very disheartening to have your sincere concerns about sexism demeaned and to have your outlook dismissed with some facile phrase.
It’s not about the destination, it’s about the journey. Sometimes I think that people believe the most important thing is to elect dems and it doesn’t matter how you get there. Well, the journey does matter. We need to be mindful of all prejudice and sexism, racism, etc.
I believe I will be visiting here more often as it feels like a better fit for me.
And with Kos recently:
He needs to think, before he hits “send”. He needs to put the entire situation into his post. I read Kos’ front page statement on this earlier today and sort of glossed over it (and the site is down right now, so I can’t see his explanation) — but if he needs extra text to explain what it is he said, then he didn’t write it right the first time!
He (and a whole lot of others, true) needs the writing equivalent of that “restaurant etiquette” college class that gets written up in the papers from time to time. The one where soon-to-be and recent college grads take a course in how to handle silverware, learn not to put their elbows on the table, what to order during a business lunch (not messy or finger foods)… essentially, how to act in public (and on job interviews) like you’re not an ill-mannered boor.
If he has a legitimate beef with these people, he could have added a paragraph to his email — a few sentences which said “You said/did this; I disagree because __ and I think you are (let’s say) hurting the cause/being disingenuous; because I so strongly disagree with you, I”m going to use whatever influence I have to oppose you in whatever way I can, including financially.” Or some such.
It’s one thing to be an unabashed jackass on your own site, however public that is (and we all know the fallout from that!), but it’s an entirely different thing to promote yourself as a jackass to the “outside”. If he wants to continue to be a player, he’s going to have to learn to modulate his words to be appropriate in whichever forum they’re being presented in. It’s not being inauthentic; it’s being pragmatic. Public jackassery is yet another IOKIYAR.
(brain-fogging here: that’s the right acronym for “It’s OK if you’re a Republican, isn’t it? For some reason, the acronyms are the first to vanish from my tiny mind.)
That made my *YEAR.
Can I rate you at least a 40?
“What goes around…comes around.”
It’s called “Accountability for Misogynists, #101.”
Thank you for posting that!
Great sleuthing.
Off to get a haircut and lunch.
Please–esp. the BT welcoming crew–take a *break
!
Pax~
Thank you. Is it just me or does it seem like all his troubles are with women?
Matthew Zablud (who received the email) is not a woman.
His “problem” is with that organization’s recommendation that the FEC restrict blogs’ abilities to raise political cash.
This would affect blogs regardless of the bloggers’ gender, I should point out.
LOL!
You must be kos Lieutenant of Damage Control. At least you’re guaranteed work!
Gender has nothing to do with this.
I don’t have to be involved in “damage control,” I’m just unimpressed with the KOS-haters’ grasp of the facts.
So, if the offensive email wasn’t addressed to her, what’s you point?
Did you think you had one?
is going to bury the content. I don’t care if you’re
talking to Satan himself, you don’t send “fucked up”
letters in a political battle.
Talk about giving the enemy the weapons to blast you with.
Frankly I was horrified at the public “Stoning of Zephyr”. Whether she was right or wrong…that crossed the lines of barbarism.
hey, does anyone remember that old saying, “You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar?”
Seems that doing the opposite of that saying isn’t going to help Kos’s cause with the FEC at all.
What are the implications of that crass e-mail he sent? (aside from damaging his reputation) I’m unfamiliar with the group he threatened. Thanks!
and ye shall receive.
Zablud, a GOP operative in Florida in 2004, is one of the people trying to make this happen.
Thou shalt be needing ye to giveth a little bit moreth, (please).
Could you share with me more about the group itself, and the power they have in the Washington scene?
I’m trying to decide if this is a temper issue or an ego issue. If it was a Republican I’d immediately say the latter, but my heart doesn’t want to go there… Some items from his posting jump out at me:
“IPDI is the Institute for Politics, Democracy, and the Internet at George Washington University. They are led by a woman called Carol Darr.”
Carol’s name identifies her as a woman; saying “a woman called Carol Darr” raised my eyebrows that maybe he does have an issue with women, as others are saying – otherwise why say it that way? Or am I being too inquisitorial?
“The hopelessly naive, astonishingly ill-informed comment starts like this”
You know, dKos isn’t a little anonymous blog anymore. It would seem a little bit of temperance is called for in comments that are being seen by the opposition, the media, and senators for crying out loud. It’s not like it’s Dem-in-Knoxville saying it. Also, not everyone is as up to date on the topic as Kos. Comes across as really hot-headed? does he intend that or is he reacting without thinking whether that’s what he really wants to say / how he wants to say it?
“So much crap to sort through it’s hard to know where to start.”
“What a steaming pile of you know what!”
“Make no mistake, this attempt by Ms. Darr is just the latest by academic pinheads to degrade the role of citizens in the media space. They once dominated the industry, and can’t stand that literally anyone and EVERYONE is now media.”
His position may have merit, I haven’t followed the issue all that closely, but comments like these and threatening emails are not going to help his cause.
There are no secrets in cyberspace. He knows that.
Was he acting rashly or doesn’t he care? Who knows?
(shaking head sadly)
One final thought: Markos, as one who is ever in your debt for all that dKos has given me in the way of community and information: Decaf is your friend.
He wrote another more diplomatic letter. He was surprised that the woman published his email instead of responding directly to him. The sie is down for maintenance right now.
Blame it on his youth. In this game, one does not want to give one’s adversaries any material whatsoever. It saves them from having to make stuff up.
http://69.9.161.200/storyonly/2005/6/10/114424/386
that’s the link for Kos’s follow up on this email
links at the bottom give the context
and with all due respect to the poster above – in the context of the FEC regulating blogs political activity – what the IPDI submitted is everything Kos wrote and more. Atrios had similar sentiments.
the group Kos is sending oh so inappropriate emails to a staffer of thinks YOUR political speech on a blog that also attempts to raise any funds for a candidate should be effectively shut down.
whatever your differences with Kos – cheering on the folks he’s fighting with over this is downright foolish and short sited. The fact that he and several notable right wing bloggers worked together to draft and submit statements on this ought to show the stakes.
if you want to take “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” all the way – I hear that Liddy Dole, Sean Hannity, and Rush Limbaugh are all none to fond of Kos…
I hardly think that the post above refers to my comment since I just defended Kos over in BooMan’s latest article.
In case that it is, I was talking about giving fodder to one’s adversaries which they can later use in an attempted smear. I came to Booman by invitation a while back, not over ‘differences with Kos.’
my “up above” was not referring to your post Sybil but others on the thread.
I posted it as a response to yours because you referenced Kos’ post on the email and I had come here to link that.
should have done the link only as a response and made my other comments in a separate comment. My apologies for the confusion.
I appreciate your explanation of Kos’s situation.
and the fact that the name is Carol doesn’t automatically show she’s female. There are guys named Carol, Tracey, Torii. It could also be his manner of speaking. I write much the same way, but i’m not sexist. i’m redundant. i could say “a guy called robert thompson mowed my lawn” just as easily as i could say “a woman named stephanie jones said tickets went on sale for the rolling stones yesterday”
i think you read too much into that usage.
I love the energy around Daily Kos, I like most of Markos’ writing, and I will always be grateful to him for working so hard at creating such a great internet resource, arguably even a movement. But he needs to grow up.
Agree fully. I don’t know what is up with Markos but I’m truely sorry for him and for him waisting his potential.
This was the crux of the “Pie Fight”
Kos was intentionally sidelining women’s “pet issues”… he obviously thinks he has the power to guide and influence the “net roots” and the women revolted.
They keep saying it was about the ad… it was about the feeling that he was … intentionally stifling the women’s issues voice in the “netroots”.
This just proves it
what exactly does this “prove”?
Now I ask you again: how does this email flap “prove” anything?
If so: what?
Or are you, like others, confused as to who was involved in this?
All I’m criticizing here is the lack of professionalism in threatening someone and saying “fucking” in a communication he ought to have guessed would be outed. I don’t think this makes any difference to the FEC decision. I was just bummed that he sounded like an angry young man, not the public leader he’s become for better or worse.
I have explained elsewhere my sadness over Markos’ and his blog’s general failure to take women’s issues seriously, as an issue whose advancement improves all of us. But I don’t think the fact that Ms. Darr is a woman or that Markos used a threat against her coworker are evidence of mysogyny, nor am I going to go sleuthing to build such a case against him.
let me clarify…
It is clear that he is using his position to “influence” agendas, well he obviously thinks so by this letter. This can be a great thing for drumming up support for candidates or fundraising. Even advocacy of the netroots with the FEC (but not in this manner, of course)… so isn’t it just possible he was using this same “influence” to stifle debate of women’s issues in the netroots?… just make you wonder.
My thoughts exactly. I often wonder how much of the frat boy talk you see on many sites, not just Kos, has to do with anonymity and how much has to do with age. As a young person entering the working world, you look around and realize you have to act “grown-up” and eventually you do grow up. Those who spend most of their time behind a computer screen may get fewer of the social cues that tell them whether their behavior is appropriate.
Me too.
I followed (sort of) the issue that prompted the email. The FEC is considering regulating blogging in a similar way as political monetary contributions, which may affect each and every one of us in ways we don’t like.
Markos obviously is dead-set against attempts to regulate, and Carol Darr has made statements to the FEC in support of regulations, claiming that is will erase the “privileges” that traditional journalists enjoy. As if the media has done anything recently deserving of privileges.
I’ve only seen the dust-up through Markos’ lens, but I agree with his general position, though I hadn’t seen the email until just now. I have to say, I’m a bit relieved to that women aren’t the only ones he doesn’t know how to “fucking” talk to.
I suppose he had a point…you can’t expect to put limits on the net roots, but still take their money when it suits you. But I also know that no one takes you seriously in the professional world for gratuitous swearing. Especially in written communication. Maybe he doesn’t care because, regardless of swearing, if he can damage the economically they will take him seriously. I’m not as sure as he is, though, that he can do that. We’ll see. But if he can’t, his credibility is doubly affected.
Hmm, maybe I should be pitching myself as his communications consultant 😉
I saw this on Americablog, with Aravosis giving some unqualified support for his response.
My mouth forgot to close for a hot second while reading it.
This kind of shyt gives comfort and hope to our enemies. This ain’t the way.
I said on Americablog like I am going to say right now.
There are ways in which you can say/write ‘Fuck you’ without actually saying/writing ‘Fuck you.'”
Sometimes guns blazing online is not necessary in the real world when you have to use tact and not lose it.
Something’s going on with this guy. And I don’t think that I like it.
Hmmm….
They say the mark of a great diplomat is that s/he can send a person to hell and they look forwards to the trip.
Wow.
The man is not only suffering from testosterone poisoning, but — as I have long expected — is not even an actual progressive. Anyone who would make such a crass and puerile threat is a Republican at heart.
The man needs to be outed. Boxer and Garofalo need to be contacted immediately.
Why should the enemies of the blogsphere continue to benefit from the blogsphere?
KOS threatened to cut them off from the people they’re ABUSING.
Who says Kos has the power to “deliver” anyone to anybody?
Did he also tell Washington that he had the power to shut women up in the “netroots”?
That’s a joke, right?
If you want to know why he could make such a threat (against such a deserving enemy), check his traffic levels in the blogsphere.
No, I would say that anyone, male or female, who’s stupid enough to support a corrupt establishment media over the blogsphere and who’ll work to destroy the tools we’ve been developing over the last few years is free to do so.
Stupid, but free.
So you are saying he has and does use his position as owner of the blog to influence and shape debate?
His position as the owner of the most-visited political blog? Yes, of course he does. Stupid question.
ragnark,
I am not sure why you would use such a demeaning phrase as “stupid question”. I personally have yet to receive a stupid question and have been around this planet more than 5 decades. Just a question, not an attack. The goal as I see it here at BMT is open discussion, further content and create solutions or strategies to counter the creeping fascism that is beginning to permeate our government. Just an observation.
Very true, and thanks for that reminder. I just think there’s becoming a glee around this site in attacking Markos in any way, shape or form. He has made many decision and said many things I’ve disagreed with, including the letter being referred to. But a question like “so he uses his power and stature to influence debate” seems to me to be a way to define a natural process as something nefarious purely to try to show how bad and evil kos is. It seems useless and unfair to me.
I appreciate your furthering your explaination and I do agree with your primary point. I lurked over a Dkos once in a while, so have no desire to continue with the diatribe about the appropiateness or degression of markos or armando. I am sure when things cool down, level heads will prevail and we can move forward in our quest to remove the extremists who seem bent on the destruction of our constitution, our freedom of choice and our human rights. I am glad you are here and thanks for being a part of BMT.
What the hell else is that power for?
Or should we just blow in whatever wind issues forth from the Mighty Wurlitzer?
from testosterone poisoning. Actually, I hate that phrase, but I take it to mean “We’re men and most of us are prone to losing our tempers, awareness of which can help us get along with ourselves and others much better.”
I don’t think it’s fair to call Markos not a progressive. He created Daily Kos in some part to advance the idea that being partisan for the Democratic Party is the most strategic way to advance more general progressive goals. You may not agree with that approach, but I’d argue that’s a difference in strategy more than goals. He has some big blind spots obviously, but he’s not a DINO.
hate KOS so much the can’t see a common enemy.
The right is laughing.
at least in a few cases. It all parallels the intramural attacks on Dean far too well. If someone’s done so many good things that we can (hopefully) all agree upon, let’s try to offer constructive criticism, then get our eyes back on the prize right away.
This is advice for me, too.
you are right… not matter how much he is critized he is not going to change…
Peace,
I don’t hate him – I don’t know him.
I do think that this sort of unprofessional behaviour, especially in print, doesn’t aid any fight – however righteous.
I also think that it is foolish to make such a threat without knowing how much influence one really has: DK may have 50,000 registered members – but that isn’t how many he can influence, and there are many thousands of other blogs out there.
I don’t disagree with his position on this particular issue – just his behaviour and I think he is over-reaching himself, and developing a marked degree of hubris.
Well, he gets ~550,000 visits a day. So, that IS a lot of people being influenced, even if they’re not necessarily influenced enough to act.
sorry, but I think ‘visiting’ and ‘being influenced’ are being conflated. I visit a lot of places, but am influenced by very few, and influenced to act by even fewer.
Well, I don’t think I’m conflating, but I have a much lower threshold for “being influenced” than you do, which is fine! I mean that they get information from the site which factors into their thinking. And so a mere visit would do that, I think. But I understand where you’re coming from.
I am curious as to why you continually wish to make such sweeping sweeping generalizaions that are inflamatory?
I have been all over this site from top to bottom day in and day out and I do not see the kos hatred that you speak about. Disagreement, disappointment, sometimes unfair remarks, but I do not see what you say you are seeing.
Please agree or disagree with others view, but these type of statements which appear to be unfounded for the most part serve no purpose to further the dialog.
That’s why I posted that here, believe it or not!
People reacted without knowing jack. It was KOS. KOS do bad thing? Yay! Bad KOS!
So, I correct the misimpressions and misinformation from the Usual Suspects and get both 4’s, from those paying attention, and flack from those who are upset at the interruption in the pissing contest with KOS.
Now you’re up to date!
that as DailyKos has progressed, its creator has regressed?
Don’t get me wrong. What he has done is admirable.
Unfortunately, we know from history that the rot generally sets in when the massas of the known universe get beside the point.
Kos jets to Britain to do columns in the Guardian about the election. He huddles with Dem bigwigs. He’s on panels. He’s interviewed at Air America and on cable. He’s becoming more visible. Note, this is not jealousy–I am simply stating fact. DailyKos has filled a vacuum that was yawning in front of us and sucking us all in.
And yet, Kos had better be careful. I ain’t lying. That makes for two stupid things he’s done.
this won’t turn into an attack thread against Kos. I too have my issues with the sexism on that blog and that’s why I spend most of my time here now. But a lot of good stuff IS going on over there (i.e. all the DSM efforts to get the word out, which obviously brought results), and I think we should refrain from harping on each other’s weakness and stick to the discussion of the issues themselves. JMHO.
Too late! I’m happy you said something, but people are now bashing him — for issues completely unrelated to the unfortunate incident — as a rite of inclusion and a rite of cohesion.
I wonder how many of the people saying Markos got his due actually have read IPDI’s letter to the FCC, or understand its implications. I appreciate the anger at Kos, and I agree wholeheartedly with the complaints of callousness, but for some people it’s like Bush got stale so people took the first chance to be part of a fresh Manichean thought system. People above claiming this as evidence he has a problem with women when the email wasn’t even to Carol Darr (it was to Scott Thomas)? Huh? I wish I’d taken sociology so that I could understand it all better.
I think you’re all on Kos’ side in this one! Educate yourselves about why he made the statement he did, and ask yourself, and then ask yourself if you wouldn’t of written the same thing he did. You don’t have to take up opposite “anti-” positions just because you don’t like the guy!
Note: The letter was NOT to Scott Thomas, Markos wrote to Matthew Zablud. I internalized the judges name instead of the correct one.
Wow. That’s just unbelievable and more reason to
build up a democratic online community that is a coalition of sites.
But, that’s what happens when one person is running the show.
He sure doesn’t speak for me and I sincerely doubt for the majority.
So glad booman decided to do a similar site and there
is also DU. Clearly we need to democratize the ownership
of the online communities.
If there’s anyone else out there who wasn’t familiar with IPDI (the complainants to the FEC in DOP’s link) – attached is a link to IPDI’s position on Internet Communications as they relate to media exemptions under campaign finance laws.
In summary, they’re recommending that the FEC impose regulations for Internet fundraising.
http://ipdi.org/UploadedFiles/Comments%20to%20FEC%20in%20Internet%20NPRM.
(I regret that I lack the skills to make the link look pretty – or hide it under a clever phrase. But here you go, in it’s most basic format – PDF, by the way)
That is not the point… no one is diputing his position.
BTW to make a link:
enclose [the text and link between brackets]
So
[pretty link http://ipdi.org/UploadedFiles/Comments%20to%20FEC%20in%20Internet%20NPRM ] remove space at the end
pretty link
Thanks for the tip – I’ll give it a shot next time an opportunity arises for a link.
I didn’t attach the link to contribute to the current discussion at hand – I only attached it for anyone (shamefully, like myself) who may not be familiar with IPDI and what role they play in the big picture.
I used to visit dkos a lot and occasionally here, and think that kos is doing a wonderful job with what his goals are: develop a partisan political site devoted to netroots and elections. I started visiting dkos in the fall prior to the election when I became addicted to the campaign and the addiction has weakened but I still need a daily dose. I haven’t always been completely comfortable at that site, because of language. Not because I’m some prude who has never cussed before but because I believe that it shows a lack of respect for other people.
I believe that many so called indies would really vote dem if they understood what we would like to see accomplished but I wouldn’t recommend dkos to many of my colleagues because I know they would be turned off by the vulgarities and miss the important messages.
I read the stuff over there about the FEC and I think what kos was unprofessional and unproductive. This kind of attitude does not win anyone over and often hardens people against you. It is not useful in influencing people Not just the vulgarity but the Sopranoesque threat voiced in the statement…
About the pie wars, I was swamped with work and really missed most of what was happening, but I think it is very disheartening to have your sincere concerns about sexism demeaned and to have your outlook dismissed with some facile phrase.
It’s not about the destination, it’s about the journey. Sometimes I think that people believe the most important thing is to elect dems and it doesn’t matter how you get there. Well, the journey does matter. We need to be mindful of all prejudice and sexism, racism, etc.
I believe I will be visiting here more often as it feels like a better fit for me.
And with Kos recently:
He needs to think, before he hits “send”. He needs to put the entire situation into his post. I read Kos’ front page statement on this earlier today and sort of glossed over it (and the site is down right now, so I can’t see his explanation) — but if he needs extra text to explain what it is he said, then he didn’t write it right the first time!
He (and a whole lot of others, true) needs the writing equivalent of that “restaurant etiquette” college class that gets written up in the papers from time to time. The one where soon-to-be and recent college grads take a course in how to handle silverware, learn not to put their elbows on the table, what to order during a business lunch (not messy or finger foods)… essentially, how to act in public (and on job interviews) like you’re not an ill-mannered boor.
If he has a legitimate beef with these people, he could have added a paragraph to his email — a few sentences which said “You said/did this; I disagree because __ and I think you are (let’s say) hurting the cause/being disingenuous; because I so strongly disagree with you, I”m going to use whatever influence I have to oppose you in whatever way I can, including financially.” Or some such.
It’s one thing to be an unabashed jackass on your own site, however public that is (and we all know the fallout from that!), but it’s an entirely different thing to promote yourself as a jackass to the “outside”. If he wants to continue to be a player, he’s going to have to learn to modulate his words to be appropriate in whichever forum they’re being presented in. It’s not being inauthentic; it’s being pragmatic. Public jackassery is yet another IOKIYAR.
(brain-fogging here: that’s the right acronym for “It’s OK if you’re a Republican, isn’t it? For some reason, the acronyms are the first to vanish from my tiny mind.)