I just had the lovely experience of discovering that someone gave one of my posts a “1” rating. A post which, as any reasonable person can see, doesn’t even come close to deserving that, or a “2” for that matter.
And this poster appears to have only a short history here, and may have previously posted at other blogs where ratings abuse is rampant. It had never previously happened to me here, though, something I really valued about this place. I know that for obvious reasons BooMan wants to be welcoming to these new posters, but I would really love to see him come out strong on this ratings abuse issue and nip it in the bud. Otherwise he might find he loses a bunch of his stalwarts in exchange for the “new kids” and their hair-trigger culture.
Has anyone else seen signs of this kind of abuse, or is this an isolated case?
I gave you a 4 for the principle. It didn’t benefit you mojo-wise though, as the troll rating thus became active.
Look Alan, I disapprove of group think too, but try to make your points without being an ass, huh? You know what I’m talking about. Bull, china, shop. š
I appreciate the uprating, even if it wasn’t mathematically helpful or whatever. What I appreciate even more is the admonishment about the BT culture, which is definitely helpful and badly needed before it’s too late.
Did you see the mini-thread just below the other one, where the diary owner gave me a frickin’ zero for cautioning her not to accuse someone of “making things up” when there was no evidence whatever of their having done so?
And I take your point: the main rule around here is “don’t be a dick”. I know I may brush up against that line at times. But I really don’t think I did at all in this diary, and one of those who was arguing with me most strenuously in this same diary said the following to me:
I’d imagine moiv would be disappointed to see the direction things took after posting this, and I don’t believe s/he would consider it my fault.
Alan
Maverick Leftist
Truth be told I didn’t read the whole diary entry. I’m sure you were on your best behavior there. Keep it up!
And your message in the present entry is important.
Cheers.
My, it’s a glorious sunny morning here in Bergen, Norway. Time to get going.
Have a nice day, all.
It’s cold and cloudy here in Munich. Yech!
It’s a cool night in Chicago, but tomorrow’s going to be a sorcher.
You ran into trouble on that thread. I don’t know about the user who gave you the one (the name doesn’t ring any bells), but the user who gave you the zero is well known on Kos as a ratings abuser, who also is in my experience extremely dishonest and sexist, and generally nasty to anyone who doesn’t agree with her.
It’s too bad that this kind of thing is going to spread over here thanks to people like her, but that’s the price for a growing dynamic community. Hopefully, the trouble makers will go to far, and get zeroed out of here.
since you go from thread on dkos posting nothing but comments such as:
“have a ZERO”
In fact one of my first diaries on dkos, without a single comment you went down the thread giving me low ratings.
Then I figured it out. It’s all about the primaries and a handful of people at dkos travel in packs rating people who say negative things about “their guy”.
Daily Kos. I’m sure there are plenty of reputations that come from over there , but I am not interested in seeing the ratings abuse migrate with it.
He is the one who commented on ratings from dkos.
sorry, that’s where it was meant to go. I’m still playing around with the Dynamic Threaded view. š
I only posted (and still do a bit) on kos for a bit over a month. It only took a day or so to see the games people were playing over there with the ratings.
I got angry at what I saw as more ratings games going on here..
I went back and changed slackers ratings. I hope this is the end of this silly argument.
But I also hope it is the end of intentional aggitation on sensitive topics.
I appreciate your willingness (and Slacker’s too) to air this stuff out. I hope to comment soon on your diary about the topic, there is some deep information there that this introvert has to process before trying to figure out what to say. Pax.
though I’m still ticked at MaineFem!
You strike me, by coming here and discussing this as you have, as a reasonable person, and I suspect we’d actually get along IRL. (But I do still wonder why you claimed Eastsidedem was making things up, instead of just debating him or her.)
Alan
Maverick Leftist
I debated him on the abortion issue. He has the sexist assumption that women are not emotionally capable of making their own decisions about abortion. I’m hardly surprised that Teresa would be angry at him.
If you’re really welling to start fresh here and call a truce, I’ll go change the ratings I gave to your responses to slacker.
I don’t like rating wars, and I don’t like seeing people get down-rated for stating their opinions, but I do appreciate it when people are willing to go back and review their actions.
If you’re willing to do that, then I’m happy to follow suit. You’ve shown more willingness to account for your actions here then I’ve seen you show in the past. I hope we can avoid further unpleasentness in the future. Peace.
“I got angry at what I saw as more ratings games going on here”
Apparently I’ve missed something, because I’ve been visiting this site since day one and have never seen any “ratings games”.
That type of behavior simply has not been employed by any of the wonderful guests on this site.
I have absolutely no idea what diary you are talking about. I don’t randomly go around down-rating people, and I don’t run with any “pack.” If I down-rated people in your diary, with out knowing the details, my guess was that they were likely making destructive comments, or behaving poorly.
As far as the primaries and candidates go, I know one night when there were a bunch of pro/anti Clark people slugging it out, I gave quite a few zeros to both sides for various destructive comments. But Clark wasn’t and isn’t my candidate, so your accusations are rather hollow.
In any case, I’m not the only one who’s complained about your use of the ratings in the past -in fact, it was Plutonium Page who I first heard about your problem use of the ratings from, before I saw you in action.
You need to learn that ratings are not some game of moral equivalency game, and the fact that I have given out many well deserved zeros does not give you free reign to down-rate people you disagree with. Disagreement with your position dose not make a comment trollish. Saying something like “calling someone a man is the worst insult I can think of” likely is.
I’m not particularly keen to have it out with you over this, but if you want to go down this road, I will say that I can defend almost every rating I have ever given (though I will admit I’ve probably errored in judgment on occasion; I don’t pretend to be infallible), and have those ratings hold up to objective scrutiny. I highly doubt you could do the same.
Hey GF… I came to this thread too late to be the lightening here as well.. damn. Must try harder. š
Anyway, I agree that most of your zeros have had merit FWIW.
Hey Spider good to see you. Nah, I think I ended up being the lightning this time around -ratings abuse has been on my mind lately, so when I saw a diary about it, it kind of jumped out at me.
Anyway, thanks for the vote of confidence in my rating ability, see you around the pond.
Must. Keep. Up. With. Spiderleaf’s. Comments. Hey dear, I engaged in a little bit of a ratings game myself. . .as noted in Welcome Wagon 17.0.
Good night, and sweet dreams!
I gave Slacker a 4 as well. I don’t agree with you Slacker but that 1 was uncalled for. If I don’t agree with somebody, I just don’t rate it. I encourage all people here to give Slacker some slack and please go over there and give a 4 to Slacker and Sirocco.
to uphold dissent and the rights of the minority to speak when they disagree with others. Why don’t you guys try and work out your problem. Debate it..Find the Truth….get the facts straight. If BoomanTrib is having it’s first flame war..perhaps it just means we have arrived. With the site now housing over 1,400 people we cannot expect only to have 4’s flying around. I got a 3 the other day just for wishing JohnnyFamousHollywoodCrooner a Happy Birthday. I thought WTF, I guess Someone was in a not so generous mood. Life goes on. However, I don’t think I have noticed any MegaTrolls around the site. We have been pretty good as a group in sniffing them out in the past. I gave out the first 0 on this site. I may have given out the 2nd one too. I remember 2,maybe 3 big disputes/fights/mini-flamewars early on. If you disagree with someone, that is a terrible reason to give them a Troll rating and that behavior should be stopped Now or we are creating a very dangerous slippery slope. Try and explain your case..maybe you can win them over….good luck my friends.
New word: nyberg(v)-the act of rating a comment as a three, when all others would have rated it a four; the object of such rating to encourage moderation and appropriate use of the rating system. nyberging.
no lapin..but believe it or not…i have received several 4’s for the great 3 man himself…I am not one for naming names (bring back awful McCarthy shit nightmares) but if you are so inclined research it and you shall answer your own question.
I’ve gotten a couple fours from the guy myself. A Nyberg four is worth about two reguler fours by my reckoning.
I am hoping your rating was accidental, it must be.
Did you see my comment above, I hope it was not me, Chamonix.
it was not…and I hold no grudge for the 3…We are all just so used to getting only 4 we have been spoiled. A 3 I can live with but poor slacker…getting a 0 and 2’s…totally uncalled for…I am going to counter it with a couple of 4’s to help him out. I know from Dkos he has a temper and can get folks a little crazy..but these rating seem uncalled for. Diane congrats on your Fab Welcome Wagon..terrif idea and shows a lot of class..you and shirl are the best. I remember our first introduction months ago….keep up the great work.
That 3 was from chocolate ink. I could be wrong, and I don’t know chocolate ink, but looking over their ratings quickly, I have the impression that they have been running around dropping furious amounts of mojo on everyone. My guess is that it was a slip – which is just inevitable if you’re handing out 4’s fast and furious.
She just doesn’t give 3’s period. So it definitely is a mistake. I will email her tomorrow and tell her and she will be sad I know. She’s a great person and a great part of this site.
with Chocolate Ink…J’adore the Inkster. I remember the love she has for her sister. And I think she is Bakersfield or somewhere like that. No big deal…I would never want her to feel bad…You guys have done a great job welcoming all the new folks who flooded the Trib within the past several days….I will always go back and forth between here and Dkos, I have made a lot of good friends over there and I am now calling my Senator Boxer at least 3 times a week on all sorts of issues..and it’s all because of my friends over at Dks. However I feel I have much stronger roots over here..and the history of this site will always been in my mind…from the first few days..I remember celebrating the first week that Booman had it up and running, naming the frog, making suggestions regarding the site…how to make improvements..kinda like some of us were original signers of the constitution. I remember when up top said “My(Chamonix’s Page) and it also had “Chamonix’s comments or Diary”..remember it had both…became totally useless….
Oh my god, this is what happens when you are away from the computer for half a day I guess.
Diane emailed me about this and she’s right it was a weird mistake…I give 4s out or nothing and I am probably known for being very generous with my 4’s. Well I suppose I should say I never have given anything but 4’s cause you should never say never but that is my basic operating premise on how I rate.
In case anyone else will be reading this I don’t believe in anything other than 4’s…unless a serious troll shows up..comments I find marginal I just won’t rate at all as I think that sends the message with less hard feelings.
Chamonix1..you’re right in remembering about my sister and loved our interchanges when booman was starting up…anyway I do feel bad and hope this post makes up for it…am so glad diane gave me the heads up on this or you would have continued to think I somehow singled you out for a 3…sheesh…….
Any member of this site will vouch for your grace, welcoming demeanor and free-flowing 4s. We’ve all had an accidental slip of the hand on the ratings button once and awhile. (And count your blessings that at least yours didn’t take place with Boo, like mine did – on a friggin’ mojo thread of all places! š
Good night – we got your back (not that you’d need it)!
Consider that it might have been an accident, I myself did it several times in the last week, in the ratings frenzy. I found one, tried to change, my computer went bust on it and then couldn’t find it again.
Others have done the same.
So how about just ask did you mean to give me this and why. If they really did then someone of us oldies should post to them and explain and refer to man egree diary of site rules or you can. I/we will support you.
I do want to nip this in the bud if it was for real and understand how you might feel.
Some of us had to go in and lend a hand in a few situations but all was eventually resolved.
a deliberate 0 and low ratings. Not a mistake. I hate to be the diary/comment cop but I agree with you…go check it out. Passions are running a bit high over there. Slacker…try next time to kill em with love and kindness…a key to life….try to always take the high road…if that doesn’t work time and again..and you really have given your all and your best, then….fuck em.
Good advice for all of us, myself especially.
I read through the diary and the thread.
In my opinion, this diarist, complaing about ratings abuse over one comment, has highly iconoclastic views on the volatile subject of abortion. While I don’t think that the comment deserved a troll rating, his overall behavior on this subject is provocative.
So I would say that this diary is a whiners diary. I agree with the comment above that the questioning of a rating is best done on the spot and does not warrant a whole diary. Sheesh. If there is a problem here, it is the exaggerated importance attached to a minor dispute.
Let’s not rise to the bait.
Maybe I should have investigated the situation a bit further, but my take was that Slacker was merely trying to address a general situation before it actually turned into a greater issue. With a 30% increase in guests in a matter of days, I’d prefer that the word get out sooner rather than later regarding standards of etiquette used on this site.
I really appreciate all the supportive comments (better late than never! <g>). Doubly so since I know you probably feel that I blew off your advice. But I really was trying to keep the whole thing civil–and it seemed to be working for a while, as evidenced by moiv’s post.
That’s funny that you got one of my infamous 3s. Do you remember what it was about? I’m definitely done with 3 ratings, scout’s honour. š
Alan
Maverick Leftist
Have I really begun to bug you yet? š
You have got to stop taking credit for the fact that moiv has the patience of a saint.
In the interest of mediation, and the development of better understanding, may I direct you to my favorite moiv diary ever? The hidden TRAP behind “Safe, Legal and Rare” and if you have further interest in what she has written, her diaries.
I’m not going to call you a jerk or rehash the original ‘What you don’t understand’ thing (I’ve had too much fun with you lately, and whether I like it or not at this point, I like you) – but I do want to ask you to think about the tone that you used with a woman very, very much respected by many of the women involved in this little … conflagration.
Please consider this a friendly challenge š
Well, I must admit that I didn’t even really know who moiv was until yesterday (or the day before, if you want to be technical). She is obviously very well informed, and a great writer. Whether she has the patience of a saint, or might actually have meant what she said to me, I can’t be sure. š
More seriously, though, I’m not sure which comment(s) it was that aroused your (and a lot of other moiv fans’) ire. Do you want to link me? Or we can just drop it and move on, either way (I find you loads of fun too, and I’d hate to dig up “yuck” from before I got to know you).
One thing I’d just throw out there, generally, though: do you think it’s at all possible that I might actually be more flexible (and dare I say, sensitive even) than a lot of my pro-choice debate opponents? After all, while I, as a father of two young kids, feel a visceral horror about abortion, I have never been able to get behind a complete ban on it because I sympathise with the plight of a woman who just can’t deal with the ramifications of being pregnant. I can’t see forcing her to go through with the whole pregnancy (though I’d like her to). Call me crazy, but I think that might count as being sympathetic to the other side.
But I rarely if ever find that any of them express any kind of empathy for my profound sadness at the thought of abortion. Instead, it’s all about hurling epithets like “misogynist”, “you want to control women”, “you don’t know the first thing about female anatomy”, etc. Well, as you know better than most, I do have feelings, and even if I try to play it off like Mr. Tough Debating Guy, those charges do sting. I like to think that I am supportive of women and of equal rights, not some horrible male chauvinist oppressor.
Ah well, I’m just rambling now…sorry.
-Alan
Let’s make an agreement. I’m intrigued by you, and having fun with this, but I want to state up front that I’m not a debater – I do … oh, let’s call it awareness pushing. I’m really hostility averse, and will just run away at the first signs of aggression. If this violates the `rules’ as you see them – please feel free to refuse to play.
moiv’s first comment on the thread was in response to you. In my opinion, she was asking for your views, and finished her post with “Just wondering” – quite friendly and mellow. You did not reply to that comment, but continued to irritate just about everyone else in there. Her second post was a calm response to a comment, which frankly just deserved some snark. Again you didn’t reply to her, but continued to annoy everyone else. Her third response to you was part shot-over-the-bow and part refutation of an inaccurate point you had made. By that time, dude you already deserved more than the very subtle “Absolutely true, on both counts.” The first time you directly responded to moiv – hero among all you had been `engaging’ was to say
And could you include a link to some kind of reputable source (say, ACOG) as proof? Thanks.
(I only hope in reading her diaries, you felt some small measure of embarrassment for making that comment.)
Oh, but eternally patient woman that she is, she did provide the ‘reputable source’ you had requested. But alas – you failed to reply.
Phew. There! You have your links!
But now I have to ask if you’ve really read the diary I linked to? I hope that you have, because otherwise my point will be quite meaningless.
I want you to image someone you don’t know treating one of your most respected, admired and knowledgeable Tribbers in that same manner. I don’t know Anomalous, but I have the impression that you have a history and mutual respect. I don’t know what Anomalous’ specific area of expertise is, but please play along and image that someone you don’t know, who doesn’t know him, where to so flippantly challenge him in his field, and then go on to argue with his supporters while avoiding him.
I’m not prepared to go delve into that damn diary again, but I suspect that part of the fury was the fact that moiv hopping in to the debate meant to many “oh, dude – you do not know who you’re dealing with”. But you refused to reply to moiv initially, and deprived everyone of the satisfaction.
Again, please imagine one of your most respected and knowledgeable friends here.
I’m skipping the rest of your reply, because I asked you really nicely the other night to never argue abortion with me.
Look, I know you can’t be expected to walk around on tip-toes among all these damn strangers in your pond, and that’s not what I’m suggesting. I’m only asking that you keep in mind the fact that this has been a difficult time for everyone – there are adjustments to be made – and playing by the existing rules in the same old way, before everyone knows their way around – is just dangerous. A little patience maybe? <eyebrow lifted>
Thanks for playing….
I won’t even try to guess what happened with that…
imagine not image… I’m a flake, but please ‘image’ as a verb is too much for even me.
No, you haven’t come close to bugging me yet. š That was funny, too, because I saw you over at EuroTrib, and I was going to be like “hey, wow, zander!” like it was some sort of miraculous coincidence to find you there, LOL. Then I started to write something like, “well, I’ll say hi, and add something about how I hope I’m not being a stalker, LOL”. Then I thought, “hmmm…maybe that’s what a stalker would say!” and cancelled the post. LMAO, it was all pretty silly.
-Alan
In editing the above post, I inadvertently made it appear as though my thoughts were actually literally what I started writing! I suppose that was probably obvious, but just in case…
Now, I realise in going back and writing this that I’m verging dangerously close to Swingers territory, LOL. (In case you haven’t seen the movie, here’s the script; scroll down to scene 52.)
-Alan
The funny part would have been if you kept posting, and posting to clarify the previous post – oh, wai… š Don’t do it, Mike.
Because I would have been paying absolutely no attention while I was digging through that damn diary, trying to unravel the sequence of events to lend some sense to the ridiculously long post ^ up there. Damn, it took forever – please, please don’t break it down in little blockquote boxes and send back something twice as long – I couldn’t take it.
You agitating, instigating little fuck! You are so lucky that I just don’t like to be angry or to hold a grudge – because if it was more my style, then I would probably be really fucking pissed right now. As it is, I’m just laughing at the comedy, and trying to accept that I’m more than a little embarrassed by my own gullibility.
Earlier today, I responded to you at length and was about to post when the servers went down. Thank GOD – because it managed to save me a little extra embarrassment. {edit – I can’t seem to find the post I was intending to reply to, so I’m just sticking this on one of your most recent posts here}
While wandering around Kos trying to figure out what was up with EuroTrib and Booman, I checked to see if diane101 or Oui or you were around – and imagine what I found!!!!
Plenty of evidence that you knew exactly what you doing when diving into the `What you don’t understand’ diary, and also knew who you were pissing off! You seem to have quite a history with firefights – Mar 17th is a good example, when you posted “Abortion’s “lost” trimester” Let’s see – Chamonix was there, MSOC, Goldfish, moiv, Marisacat, Dallasdoc, mcjoan, RedDan, Raybin, Armando hopped in for a while, and somewhere near the bottom of 379 comments, things degenerated into (general discussion – not meant to imply that these are your statements)
you four “fucks” two “shits” and a “bullshit!”
That’s a good deal.
So FUCK YOU!
Give me my 1 here and my 3 4s on other comments.
Is this a one time deal?
feel that this poster is a troll? For using fould language?
Fuck that shit– a 2 might be reasonable, but come the fuck on.
And way, way at the bottom, I found a comment from mcjoan….
Did you read the part about the Hyde amendment? There’ll be federal funding for abortion clinics in underserved areas when monkeys fly out of your butt. That’s a red herring on your part. There will be absolutely no give on this issue with the Congress and administration, only take. I’m going to take a chance that you’re actually willing to educate yourself on this issue a little, and steer you first to a fanastic diary from a health care provider, moiv, The hidden TRAP behind “Safe, Legal and Rare.” You can find a lot out about the reality providers face in terms of restrictions already in place, and how dangerous imposing even more is to the fundamental right to choose.
Your first recommended diary, so it seems.
And on May 25th, you went back for more with Pro-choice Voters: A Question for You.
Hmm, let’s see – CabinGirl hopped in, as did … CreamCity, colleen, Bob Johnson (some of that got pretty nasty, huh?). Now, as I write this, the servers are still down, so I can’t compare names – and frankly, I’m pretty glad for that, as that’s not something I think is important. Kos is a big place – and just the other day, I asked ask whether he was askquestions in another life. I later realized that I had chatted with him a little just last week, as ask about Serbia. Maybe I would have recognized him if he was wearing orange…
The thing that I did find fascinating though was looking through your ratings in those diaries….
You handed out some 1’s yourself. To colleen for example for this comment…
“shows that there would be what is to me a sad but unfortunately not shocking withdrawal of support for a guy”
you selected your theoretical candidates and worded your lame poll to produce this precise result and were fully aware of what the result would be. Now you’re indulging in artificial histrionics. This is even more boring than your usual troll diary.
and a 2 to Bob Johnson for this…
Because that’s the only way with a horribly insecure person such as yourself.
and another 2 to Bob for..
I was, literally, pining for your typical, inane, incendiary diaries the whole time you were gone.
How’s your war goin’?
And even a 2 to Plutonium Page for this comment…
“Though this is hypothetical, I wanted to use two real American politicians to get it out on the table: who here is a one issue abortion voter? If you support Giuliani over Oberstar in this matchup, you are either a Republican or a one-issue voter, since Oberstar is a real prolife progressive, and not at all “GOP-Lite”.
You’re not really asking a question with this diary.
You’re making a statement: “who’s a purist, like I am?”
And you’re a hypocrite, because I, like many others, remember your fervent anti-choice diary.
And interestingly, you dropped a 2 in TeresaInPa’s tip jar in her May 24th version of What you don’t understand about Pro-choice women. I almost choked trying to open that diary – more than 1000 comments, but I did have to see whether you had joined in there. A `find on this page’ search didn’t identify your name, so I’ll trust that you stayed out – I’m not about to go searching.
Most recently – you gave CreamCity a 2 for a post that obviously referred to you, but was really an exasperated statement about frustration. You chose not to identify yourself in that thread and didn’t post a reply of any kind. Her comment?
as what was so maddening to so many women and men were some of the absolutely uneducated posts. Not just the stupid, one-word “bazooms” and worse posts. A perfect example was at BMT yesterday — a guy who is arguing for only first-trimester abortions . . . who, as it went on, clearly does understand the first thing about how women’s bodies work. And then there are the misstatements of what Roe v. Wade requires. Etc., etc. And then, when good and educated posters responded with the correct information, the pick-a-fighters just respond with . . . well, “bazooms!” rather than listen. And that generally (not always, I know; we do all have our bad days) means someone who is not here to learn. . . .
That’s all I have to say about that, but seriously dude – you shouldn’t have let me so naively give you the benefit of the doubt – now I feel like a jack-ass. The up-side is that I’m laughing about it and I tend to get over shit like this pretty quickly. And because it did feel like a total invasion of privacy to scrounge around and amass this shit, I responded to one of your comments over at Kos. Now you have my handle there – it horrifies me to imagine you messing with it and rummaging around, but fair is fair.
See you around.
Brunette: Hi.
Mike: I’m Mike.
Brunette: Hi Mike. I’m Lorraine.
Mike: Like the quiche?
Brunette: (smiles) Yes. I like the quiche.
Mike: I like quiche.
Brunette: I thought real men don’t like quiche.
Mike: My reputation seems to have preceded me.
Brunette: Why? You’re not a real man?
Mike: Not lately.
Wow…ouch. š
I guess I am going to try to be brief in reply to that rant…I’m really sorry you feel this way.
–I honestly don’t know why I’m the bad guy for those ratings. Those people said things to me that go beyond the pale, that I never approached saying to them, or anyone else for that matter. I don’t apologise for them or think I was wrong, but I certainly do regret losing your friendship (as it would appear).
–Looks like my last post to you here on this thread got lost in the “big glitch” last night, and maybe posts of yours were lost, too. I’d be curious to know what if anything was lost there, and I hope some crucial communication wasn’t lost in the process. But it’s starting to look like you wouldn’t have much use for me regardless. Yeah, I have a long history as an “instigator”, no question (though I insist that I don’t lower myself to personal insults like “lame”, “insecure”, etc.). I thought you already knew that when you offered the olive branch (or accepted it, or both).
I don’t know if I’ll see you around, at least any time soon. Just now, I find my enthusiasm for posting here at a low ebb. I will check back for replies, though; but as for general posting, maybe I’ll wait a while, and come back with more of a hardened “asshole” attitude like everyone seems to think about me anyway.
Bye,
-Alan
Hey wait just a minute!!! I was seriously laughing about everything above – honest. I felt compelled to go on such a rant because I had assumed that instigator or otherwise the tension on those diaries had a lot to do with the ‘refugee camp’ scenario. I remember the original title to this diary, and took it seriously. To find that you were all too familiar with the way things degenerate into rating punches and slurs…
But no, it’s not personal, and like it or not, you’re stuck with me now. I fully intend to continue being a pain in your ass – showing up where I’m least wanted to dog you and play peace maker.
Olive branch is still extended – but please excuse me if I feel the need to smack you with it occasionally.
I guess I took you way too seriously or something, sorry. I was seriously feeling like shit earlier, though, which was weird, because I have certainly been the target of rants much harsher than that one and emerged without a scratch (well, not quite true, as I noted in my earlier post, but close enough). I guess the roller coaster ride of “you’re a jerk” to “you can sure act like a jerk, but you’re really not so bad deep down” to (at least the way I took it) “now that I know the whole story, you really ARE a jerk!” somehow really got to me, because I’ve been feeling low all day. I feel much better now! š
(LOL at the “whacking with olive branch” metaphor, btw.)
-Alan
“smacking with olive branch” metaphor.
(Why do I get so fussy about these things? Don’t do it, Mike!)
Don’t make me use this thing… it stings.
Sorry to bum you out with my rant. It’s been some tough times around here, you know? Cheer up my friend, you are much loved…. if I wanted to hang out entirely with people I agreed with, I’d stay off the damn internets. You should come over to the community center, by the way, and find out that I’ve been talking about you…..
(LOL at the “internets” line–the really sad thing though is that my Bush-detesting mom says the same thing!)
You’ve been getting really handy with those images lately! I need to start doing that. I thought I was all good because of my nicely formatted blockquoted excerpts and links and such, but the images are way cool. š
-Alan
has been a bad influence on me. I’m not an ‘insert graphics here’ kind of a person. I don’t know what happened really.
I’m kind of concerned about picking up too many ‘on-line’ only usages – I’ve actually had to stop and think about how to pronounce nuclear. When the satire permeats your vocabulary entirely – …. shit – forgetting about the actual damage he’s done, just the hell he’s put our language through will take years to recover from…
After all, another dimwitted Republican president brought the word “normalcy” into our lexicon, where it stayed, long after he was gone:
Tell me that doesn’t sound familiar! sigh
-Alan
and so damn hard to expunge. My own mother gave me acrosst – and if I spend to much time hanging out with her… there it is, coming out of my own mouth… <shudder>
I have no desire to horrify you. No rummaging will occur.
-Alan
Good morning!
I know I’ve recommended this ad nauseum (sp) in other threads over the past many months, but I feel compelled to do it again. I’d strongly encourage you (and others) to read “The 15 Biggest Lies in Politics” written by former congressman Tim Penny, and white house correspondent Major Garrett.
I found the chapters on abortion and gun control of particular interest. I shared the book with friends on both sides of the aisle. Friends who are equally passionate about the subject from very different viewpoints. And I have to say, it was the first resource that brought people together to openly discuss the issue – no matter their opinion. As you probably know, Penny was a Dem – who always voted with the Republicans on reproductive issues. Then a funny thing happened. His daughter became a teenager, and he realized that the issue of abortion was far more complicated than any single piece of legislation. And he understood that it could impact every one of our daughters, sisters, mothers. . . And he realized “there but for the grace of God go I” (or any one of us). From that point forward, he strongly supported Roe v. Wade and all other legislation in support of women’s right to choose. And of course he did so at a cost – being attacked as a flip/flopper – rather than being celebrated as someone who learned through life’s experiences.
I didn’t read the diary that caused all the above-mentioned grief – and much like Diane – I typically avoid diaries of that nature. When we entered our discussion the other night, I did so knowing full well that I have no influence over you. (Which you confirmed in spades) I was merely hopeful that you would consider holding off on any controversial posts. Again – I haven’t read the diary, but based on our past conversations I think that you and I share the same feelings on the subject. It’s just that sometimes your opinions can come across as pretty harsh, particularly on such a delicate matter.
I remember Susan having written a diary some time ago on the other site, which was “greeted” by some in a very negative and unfortunate manner. I personally did not understand why some people were jumping all over her. But I also didn’t know that Roe v. Wade was being considered as a bargaining chip by others. And that’s where I draw the line. There are aspects of both sides that I don’t understand, nor do I expect to. I don’t understand the harassment of doctors who perform the procedure and women who are seeking the procedure, and I don’t understand women who wear T shirts proudly proclaiming they have had the procedure themselves. Quite honestly, I also didn’t understand the harm of a 24 hour waiting period, until I read and listened and absorbed the full implications of that legislation.
And I continue to learn – from the opinions of both sides of the aisle.
It would take a heck of a lot of searching to find the comment in which you gave me a 3. But if I recall, it may have contained a pointed remark toward you. It was a long time ago, and of no significance to me – then or now.
Blessings and peace
O just looked at comments in question Slacker and I think this is may be abuse and this should be discussed. Anyone know the diaries where we have discussed this. A 2 means a warning and I hardly think you needed a warning for anything. You just had a different opinion.
If any Kossaks are reading this, you might want to know that we respect the right of our commenters to say their own views, if you disagree, that’s fine, but you needn’t give them a low rating for that.
I have spent a lot of time in the last few days talking about the community of this site and why it has worked so well. Ratings abuse will lead us down the same path as DK.
Kossers you came over here and we welcomed you with open arms. You didn’t come here when we were small and tiny and you still liked DK. or whatever. If this pie fight had not happened you would probably never have come to this site at all.
We have tried to be patient, but folks, if you want to treat us like that, maybe this will not be a good fit for you.
Not a very nice way to treat your hosts, I think.
I sincerely hope I am wrong, and if I am let me know, but I am very disappointed if it is true.
Brains functioning on low levels I think, I didn’t realize it was zero till after I wrote comment above and that makes it worse. Definitely this must be dealt with.
Feeling like you have my back (even though you probably disagree with me on the issue itself as much as anyone else) is a real warm feeling, and underlines the whole community aspect of BT. I wanted it to get a bit bigger, so threads would “hop” a bit more, but not at the price of losing what makes this place great.
Alan
Maverick Leftist
Actually I don’t get into the abortion debates at all, and I have had varied opinions of it throughout my life. To me it all boils down to a individual choice issue period. Doesn’t matter all the ifs, ands or buts, just personal choice. Enough discussion of it.
Yeah I know what you mean, we all wanted this place to get bigger but not at the expense of what we have built here.
But all in all I think there are only a few who have not been captivated by this site in a very positive way. See Boomans diary on front page for all the testimonials.
Yes Slacker we have your back, agree with your comment or no. That’s what we are.
Diane, do you think I was being a “whiner” in posting this diary? I didn’t get that impression from your posts, but since you gave FC a “4” for saying just that…well, I was just wondering.
Alan
Maverick Leftist
.
see new comment by Chamonix1 below.
Don’t generalize, each members is an individual.
Solve problem or email Martin when it’s not resolved.
Pax
WELCOME: Make Yourself Known @BooTrib aka lost treasure of dKos
Oui, thanks for your input (and btw, my opinion of you as regards this subject has improved markedly since we first crossed paths)…but I was wondering specifically about Diane’s rating there.
.
when crossing-paths – luckily works both ways.
Thanks for kind words.
WELCOME: Make Yourself Known @BooTrib aka lost treasure of dKos
I know you don’t give a rat’s tail about my opinion, but if you’re bored, please see comment above to Frederick.
I do give a rat’s tail as you put it about your opinion anomalous you know that. Are you talking about site etiquette, if you are then I think that would be a good idea for Booman to put up soon. Hope he will.
How are you doing, anom, you always walk through these diaries days later and then I follow you to see what you are saying. lol
hope you are good, my dear. hugs to you
Did I accidentally send my response to you? It was meant for Alan, who was seeking input from you (but, as usual, I couldn’t stop myself from responding to his request – even though it didn’t involve me in any way).
I’m a slow reader, and I got backed up a few days when I encountered so many difficulties with all the site traffic. As you know, I’m always at least a day late and a dollar short in keeping up with the writing on this site – so my comments are rarely timely when I do post. After my week from hell, I slept 22 hours straight, and the next two nights I slept 16-18 hours apiece. But I’m finally rested and feeling somewhat better (just in time to face my next round of client deadlines – woo hoo!).
Hugs to you, my dear. I’m so impressed with your lovely welcomes and the way in which you organized fellow members to pitch in. It made me all warm inside, and I’m sorry I didn’t participate as much as I would’ve liked to! (And I hope you’re getting enough rest, after your many, many hours of welcome wagoning!)
Blessings and peace to you! (And quit stalking me š
Slacker…next time..i would suggest not blaming anything on the new folks who came over from Dkos. They are memebers just the same as Booman, you or I. It seems not cool to me. Just refer to them as people or other tribbers…I hate anything that would be perpetuating dividing the communities. This needs to be looked at as a sibling of Dkos or a breakapart/spawn……that was how it was started. We need each other and will continue to in the future. We are not the Anti Kos site and never should be. We need to nip that idea in the bud now. I still enjoy posting at both places. I did a rant last night over there that kicked ass. I was in a Pissed off Bush mood….the most 4’s I have ever had…made number 1 on the list for most 4’s. ok..nuff bragging Chamonix
english teacher used to say, “oofta!” I am not going to discuss the incident here, I made a comment directly there. I agree with Chamonix, we need to be very careful ourselves about making this an us vs. them thing. I may be alittle more alert about monitoring stuff, but I don’t consider myself any more important than user 1400, we all have a responsibility to make sure the ratings abuse doesn’t start. I think the rules and philosophy of the site will be clearer after BooMan reveals his “surprise”. Like I said in my diary, we all need to be patient.
<deep breaths for me too>
hey….you were in the middle of the tornado…wow…glad to see you made it out in one piece…btw/ what the hell is this surprise..weeks ago..i guessed some sort of european blog travel site…know I’m thinking a EUROBOO-TRIBUNE..to connect with our International gang…Jerome is gonna be bloggerman to bring the Europeans in to our world. I bet that’s it. When passions flare..and you are right smack dab in the middle of it..people say and rate things that later they might wish they hadn’t. But just the title of this, Slackers diary should be changed….
I don’t think you deserved that troll rating even though I massively disagreed with your opinion on my ability to make decisions for my body without government interference. I, however, will tell you that you did seem a bit aggrandizing in that thread and tensions are still running high from the pie wars so I can’t exactly blame that person who gave you the troll rating. I would’ve given you one if I hadn’t calmed down and decided there was no changing your mind on my right to privacy and my right to making choices for myself.
100% percent control in regards to their health and their body…and the government has no place in that discussion..it is a private, personal one…not unlike Schiavo…but the rating abuse was evident to me.
abortion and the contraception issue affects me very deeply because I do not want to be held hostage by my reproductive organs. I do not want to be forced to undergo pregnancy against my wishes. I want the choice to choose when to be pregnant and right now at this stage in my life, I am not ready and nor would I make a great mother since I am starting out in the “so-called real world” since graduating from college with barely anything in the account.
I’m glad I have access to the birth control pill, and I will always use it until I am ready to be a mother. If I am not ready and the birth control fails in that two percent chance, I will have an abortion because I do not want to bring an infant into a situation where I will not be able to support it. That means abortion at one month, two months, or three months, or whenever I know I am pregnant.
It will not be an easy choice for me to make but I will make it because I am not going to bear unwanted children. I will make it because I want to bear wanted children of my own choosing. I do not want anyone else to legislate my morality or my body. That’s not their choice to make. It’s mine.
Also, if and when I get pregnant of my own choosing when I am ready, and I find out that my baby has serious birth defects or that my life is at risk during the pregnancy, I will choose to get an abortion because my life is more important to me. I do not want anyone else to make that choice for me. That’s not their choice to make. It’s mine.
(and though we probably should try to avoid turning this into an abortion diary)
The reason my proposal involves guaranteeing the right to first trimester abortion by constitutional amendment (so no Republican SCOTUS appointees can touch it) is that I agree: no woman should be forced to go through an entire pregnancy because she accidentally let one of her eggs get fertilised. And I am not inflexible: if it has to be 15 weeks instead of 12, or whatever, to make sure women have time to learn they are pregnant, that’s worth discussing. So is the issue of serious birth defects.
Alan
Maverick Leftist
I’m not sure if you know this, but the feeling I get whenever someone speaks of restricting abortions or my access to birth control is fear. I get afraid, I panic, and I feel like I’m being boxed in, that I am nothing more than a womb whenever someone does that. That’s the reaction I got last night and it was a very visceral one. I’m not sure if you understand the level of fear that women have about their reproductive choices being taken away, or engaged in dialogue with someone that doesn’t seem to understand the various details that renders that particular argument moot.
If you ahve been following my posts you have seen that I jumped in on the diary and made a comment, now Teresa has posted a reply which warrents further discussion with you, why did you start rating everyone down in the first place? That seems to have led to the problem.
Can we get Teresa to come to this page to discuss this with you and perhaps resolve and Slacker, I would really like to see you revise your ratings if you have done that.
Ok I may be a little tired and fuzzy right now, so if I am completely wrong I am sure you will let me know.
About the 4’s I just gave everyone one, and maybe that was just reflex from the last few days.
I am starting to want an end to the whole rating thing now.
Let’s mend this fence, ok folks.
I have never seen the system work perfectly. I give out 4s or don’t rate at all the vast majority of the time. I only give out troll ratings when some one is an obvious ditto head (clinton sucks and democrats are all commies), or using the system to punish other’s for disagreeing.
I doubt that it is possible to get everyone to act the same way when rating others….. which is why I don’t rate people most of the time.
Diane,
Did you just take Teresa’s word for that, or go look at my ratings? At the point she troll rated me, I had given one “2” rating, and nothing lower than that. (I did end up giving Teresa a couple 2s, as did others.) The post I rated “2” perhaps in hindsight I would take back, but this poster had repeatedly called me “immoral” (without getting any downrating from me) and was now essentially equating me with a slave trader and I felt that went too far. I did give out a few 3s (along with a lot of 4s). My understanding is that a 3 still increases mojo, and is thus not a “downrating”.
I use ratings, like a lot of people do, for shorthand so as not to post even more replies. “4” is given for awesome posts that make their points very well; a “3” from me is acknowledgment that “okay, I think part of that made sense, though it really wasn’t that strong of a case but it’s not really worth fighting over, so here’s a 3 to show that I read what you said and hear you.” Maybe some would disagree with that use, but I hardly think it is any great tragedy to get a rating that increases your mojo.
Even a “2” wouldn’t bend me too far out of shape, and I certainly wouldn’t have diaried about it.
I’d also mention that the ironic thing here is that I posted this diary before the brouhaha with Teresa. It was originally about the fact that I got a “1” from MaineFem.
I am bowing out of this and leaving you two to solve it or not as you see fit.
Hey I am just out of it mentally so I do hope all will forgive me, and take up this with menfem, slacker.,
I may have jumped in where angels fear to tread….
Sorry to Teresa that I jumped on her, sorry to Slacker I jumped on him.
The diary itself was just to hard to wade through to read all comments, etc. so I just went by the little I read.
Slacker maybe you should stick with 4’s.
Apologies all around from me. My spelling is off tonight so hope all makes sense.
Produce a quote where I equate you with a slave trader. Please. Do so. Give a quote, and a link to the post where it occurs. Or you’re going to keep getting 1s and 2s from me every time you make that absurd claim in an attempt to discredit one of your critics.
In the meantime, I’ll continue to put morality above loyalty to The Party.
no I am not thinking you are a whiner for posting this diary. Lets get it talked out now, at least a little. Maybe us oldsters are just to worn out. Have you been watching here this week slacker, I haven’t noticed you till today.
we have said what we needed to say…I think it only natural that 2’s or 3’s are tossed around when the heat is on….human nature and shit happens…it’s the Mega troll O that seems out of place. We haven’t seen that since you know who…there were a couple of them..I remember them well. I think it best to let them work it out. Choice is a major hot button and it can inflame anyone who is passionate about their belief
you on this one Chamonix.
I haven’t been around much for the last few weeks, and just peeked in today and ended up back in spades. š
Well, maybe had you listened to my gentle requests the other evening. But NO – ya had to jump right into a thread related to likely the most sensitive subject on the site. Well, at least I’ve learned not to expend a great deal of energy in attempting to influence someone’s behavior in the future.
really shouldn’t complain.
When you start giving twos to people simply for disagreeing with you, don’t be surprised when it comes back at you.
When you hit, people tend to hit back harder.
the discussion here, I don’t want your diary to be about ratings abuses, rather about the issue you raised in the original entry.
Keep in mind that people have no idea if you are online or not at a given moment. You were probably sitting at your desk fuming at his comments and then gave out the zero when you reached your limit. (tell me if I’m wrong, because I’m just assuming here). Anywho, for all the thread knows, you are logged off and enjoying a movie somewhere on a Friday night. Rather than give out the zero right away, it’s more helpful to give someone a warning rating and comment, that way they know that you consider them to be toeing the line of trollish behaviour. Am I making any sense?
I was offline for about 4 hours (asleep) and came back to find slacker passing out twos to people that he disagreed with.
but do you see how no one can really know for sure? Maybe someday Scoop will add a feature to show members logged in, but for now we can never know. Like I said in another response to you, call him/her on it, ask them why they are giving out warnings for no apparent reason. The Mega-Troll rating should be used as a last resort once it’s clear that the person is not willing to participate in dialogue.
Or unless it’s DB and you’ve just cut yourself shaving š
to be pond scum a looooong time ago. Which reminds me, I need to buy new razors, this one is dull.
Teresa, I dealt with your claim that I “started it” here–though I need to amend that because I now remember that I gave you a “2” (which you “hit back harder” on) because you claimed someone (not me, EastsideDem) was “making up” a post and should “stick to the facts”, when you had no justification for saying so. And that same post, that I gave a 2, ended up getting another 2 from Goldfish, and no higher ratings. Just because you didn’t actually downrate EastSideDem’s post doesn’t give you the right to slander it.
Furthermore, I want to again point out that this diary actually was posted before you gave me any ratings. It’s turned out to be all about you, but it came about because of MaineFem’s “1”. You just kind of underlined my point, and ended up being the focus.
Hope that clears up your misconceptions and sets the record straight for everyone.
Alan
Maverick Leftist
You were passing them out to a few people.
Go look at my ratings (just click “SlackerInc” and then click “Ratings”). I haven’t changed any of my earlier ratings except raising your 0 to a 2 (though I suppose you could accuse me of being a liar, like you did EastSideDem…are you ever going to address that wild accusation, btw?).
As I explained, I gave a 2 to one other person besides you. (I didn’t even downrate MaineFem, the poster who originally troll rated me and inspired this diary!) I did give out some 3s, as I said, and perhaps you made an honest mistake and conflated those with 2s.
Alan
Maverick Leftist
that I have waded into the wrong end of the pool on this one, Slacker why are you giving low ratings on this tread, what’s happening with you.
Diane, do you mean my use of 3s? It’s labelled “good”–I guess I like my 4s (which I give plenty of as well) to mean something. I just don’t consider a 3 to be a “low rating”.
Alan
Maverick Leftist
As a newbie, I admit I am as yet unfamiliar with ratings culture here. But to me, it did seem you only gave 3s to people with whom you did not agree, regardless of how the comment was written or whether or not it was in a thread in which you were active. So without commentary explaining why you felt the need to point out a comment was “good” and not 4-worthy, it can appear that you are lowering a user’s average with a three, but reserving the safety of being able to deny ratings abuse by saying “but a 3 isn’t bad!”.
Yes, I was one you gave a 3 to. I honestly don’t much care about my ratings as long as people don’t rate me down for having a differing opinion. I appreciate it when people tell me it’s time to calm down, or that I haven’t thought a contribution to a discussion through, and that is when I have a 3 in the past.
Maybe I will have to stop, or at least cut back on, my use of 3s, if people are misinterpreting them. That seems a shame, because I think that there should be two levels of quick, positive feedback: like, say, Good and Excellent. š
In the case of your post, I was dealing with the fact that on the one hand, you differed with a lot of the people there in saying that after a certain point, abortion becomes infanticide. That’s cool to see that viewpoint expressed, and had that been your entire post, I would have easily given you a “4”. But I felt I couldn’t give a 4 when you also said men shouldn’t be allowed to have an opinion on this issue. Still, I meant the rating in a positive way, and as I said my understanding is that your overall mojo goes up, not down, when you get a 3, even if every rating you’ve received before that was a 4–because it adds something rather than dividing and forming an average.
Does that make sense?
Alan
Maverick Leftist
Makes sense. Like I said, I’m still sticking my toes in the water over here, and at Kos (only mentioning for my experience), comments were often rated all or nothing.
I agree, 3s should have a place. Thanks for clarifying while I get to know you.
I have read your recent comments and all I have to say to you before passing out from weariness, is why rate a comment other than a 4, real troll notwithstandiing. What is the point of judging a comment to deam it worthy or unworthy. That begins to stifle the commenter which is why I do not post on kos and if I do I think carefully.
It’s like a bully in a bar, hoping they don’t notice you.
I just can’t understand why someone would want to hold back people from writing simply what they think, be it right or wrong, by causing them to fear a rating and so temper remarks with caution so as not to be noticed.
Just maintain respectful discourse and just reward.
What does it hurt to give out a little kindness and a heads up, thanks for being brave enough to face the world with your own personal thoughts.
Diane, I just honestly don’t know why anyone would “fear” a 3, which is positive mojo. It’s certainly not my intent to make people less likely to post–I like a good lively discussion after all! š
Alan
Maverick Leftist
I am loving your spunk. Now that the dust has settled, I’ll tell you that I’m 24, will be 25 in September. I’ve always been a writer, journaling since I was a kid, that may be where my articulation comes from, who knows. Regardless of the ripples around here with the site’s growth I’m still happy to be around and can’t wait to see where it goes in the coming months. For the record, it’s now 3:15am and I’m still not sleepy, thanks for the adrenaline rush you snarky frog. š
You’re handing out 3’s to people who disagree with you, then disingenuously claiming “hey, that’s good, right?”
First off, did you hand out a single 4 to anyone you disagreed with?
Right.
So, all these people who you disagreed with, they had nifty comment ratings like: 4.00/8, 4.00/9, 4.00/3
Now, you decided you wanted to “reward” them by giving them 3’s.
So their ratings become 3.82/9, 3.90/10, 3.75/4
Be honest, didn’t you give them a three knowing exactly that that would happen, and exactly because that’s what you wanted to have happen?
Its petty.
If you agree, hand out a 4.
If you don’t care, leave it alone.
If you disagree, leave it alone.
If you think its getting close to being inflammatory, hand out a 2
But don’t come here and tell us that you honestly wanted to reward these people for their posts contradicting yours, but not too much by giving them 3’s…
I’ll come out and say it. I don’t believe you. I think that’s disingenuous. You’re smart enough to know exactly what its doing, and to know exactly the effect it will have on the folks you’re giving it too.
It’s childish. Like sticking your tongue out at someone who’s winning the argument.
but I swear to you that it was not my intention to use those 3s in a punitive manner. I described how I meant them previously; but here, look at my ratings and I think you will see that I did give out some 4s to my argument opponents (for instance, one of them I think was when moiv posted some extensive information about abortion procedures). Sure, it’s harder to get a “4” from me if I strongly disagree with you, but I don’t understand why that is controversial.
I would ask you, if you are going to level a charge like this at me, to go and spend some time in that thread and compare the posts that got a “3” from me to those that got no rating (but were directly interacting with me). I think you’ll find the ones that got no rating were generally more hostile, dismissive, or just poorly argued. If I were trying to use 3s as a punishment, isn’t that just the opposite of what you’d expect to find?
Alan
Maverick Leftist
Okay. Then let me just state what others here have stated.
three’s aren’t always appreciated (in fact, I’d say seldom).
They are often seen as a snub.
Now, you can find a FAQ, or an opinion that says otherwise.
But that won’t ever change how the folks you’re giving the threes to feel about it.
My advice is to either give a 4, or just leave it alone.
After all, what’s your purpose?
If not to offend, why do something which may give offensive?
If to reward, why not go all the way to a 4?
It doesn’t cost you anything to give out a 4. Its just as easy as giving out 3’s.
And if you don’t rate it at all, people will live. They won’t blame you, not at all.
You can deny the feelings of other people. This is a minor matter. Its a silly number, not life or death.
But if folks perceive it as being rude, at least someone has forewarned you.
Actually – speaking from firsthand experience, Alan was the only person to give me a 3 (purposely) during my tenure on this site. I’ve always gotten along with him, and didn’t take it as a slam. But maybe I shouldn’t jump into this at all. I just wanted to share my personal experience.
.
… to paraphrase a brilliant brit Shakespeare.
On a blog you’ll run into a rare “1” or perhaps a “0”, that’s all in the game. Consider it a vote of confidence you have an independent opinion. It has happened to me at dKos, no bother.
Problem arises when a ratings abuser gets showered with 4‘s on same issue, from what I consider brown shirts who don’t comment and contribute themselves. That is not the case here at all. At BooTrib members are pretty level headed and give support where it’s needed.
Sometimes humor works very well …
Is always more than a single 4 and …
Often a rating tells more on who she is, laying an opinionated judgement on a fellow kossack.
LOL tag team!
Result? Yes – a fourth “2”. So even humor doesn’t always work.
Remember Slacker – what is real importance of a number? Perhaps a hurt feeling or a bit of ego gets hit. Compensate.
Hey slacker – just take a pause, have a drink and enjoy the happiness of these recent days at BooMan’s Tribune and his forthcoming “big surprise”.
Enjoy your night or day and relax! Make love not war.
WELCOME: Make Yourself Known @BooTrib aka lost treasure of dKos
I don’t really care much about the individual downrating here or there. But over at, uh, another site, I lost my “trusted user” status due to ratings abuse. And to have the same thing happen to me here, because of a bunch of people from that same aforementioned site, would bother me. KWIM?
Alan
Maverick Leftist
.
Alan
Maverick Leftist
… another site
… lost my “trusted user” status
… a bunch of people
… would bother me
Give some slack – don’t take previous anger with your to the frog pond @BooMan.
You won’t lose your TU status here at BMT.
Even the TU status is relative – gives you the responsibility to rate “0”‘s and see hidden comments. That’s not my first concern when I am participating on a blog. I don’t have at present a TU rating anymore at dKos, all mojos have spread too thin in recent weeks – and I still sleep well at night and don’t think about it. Oh yea, my handle was changed, had to start over with a new name.
It’s the feeling of injustice that bothers you. Fair – but that’s not an argument today – check out the Welcome Wagon diaries. Persons with great energy and motivation like you are needed over there. Some 400+ newbies have passed the revue – give some support and meet people.
.
Sure could use your energy on this diary!
Same can be said for anyone to volunteer! Thanks.
Oui aka @dKos as creve coeur and new creve coeur
WELCOME: Make Yourself Known @BooTrib aka lost treasure of dKos
You finally hit on a note of reason, excellent idea, slacker, go and experiece a little of the joy that has been hanging over this site this last week. We have been celebrating and you really need to join in that.
Let me be the first to say welcome to this site Slackerink, glad to have you hear, now go and post a tell us about you.
I really am going to bed now, it is 3 am here. Love you all and to all a good night.
Keeping in mind that before you reached your current state of peace, you wrote a very lengthy diary about your hurt feelings related to your experiences at the other site, and losing your TU status. Slacker’s in the midst of sorting through his feelings. Just sayin’
summarize a solution here, tell me if I’m being ridiculous or not, it is 2:30am after all.
Mega-Troll ratings, or Zeros, should be the last resort. The 2-ratings are effective as a way of telling the person, or persons, that they are escalating the situation beyond the point of civility. I have found it helpful to also post a comment that says Warning, and why. If they continue to flame away, then they are obviously not willing to have rational discourse and deserve the Zero rating.
Also, the 2-rating is a good way to send a signal that the person is toeing the line of trollish behavior–which is not the same as having an opposing viewpoint.
Is that fair?
I seldom rate any comments. I don’t exactly understand the purpose or reason behind it all. But this is what turned me off of Kos ages ago when I was being troll rated for something I snarkily commented on- I don’t even remember the topic, but I knew it was not a troll comment. I do think there are some posters who think it’s funny and do it on purpose. Whether they are freepers or just immature assholes-which is probably both.
As long as this rating is part of the package it will be used and abused.
I say get rid of it.
the specifics with the Scoop software, but I think the rating system is built into it. With most things, there’s an upside and a downside to it. It has proven effective here for a couple of geniune troll incidents where the poster was clearly aiming to disrupt a good discussion. Once two proper zeros were given, the comment was immediately hidden and the dialogue was able to continue. I know what you mean about the frustration with it tho. Personally, I’ve used the 4s as a sign of affirmation. It’s another way of building community.
One of the reasons I found Kos aggravating was the troll wars. So much energy devoted to that. I was very disappointed to see BT had the same setup.
I read the thread before you posted this. By the time I got to the end of the diary, I felt like giving you a 1. Not necessarily for any individual post but for hijacking it and pretending to engage in a discussion that you were in no way willing to really engage in. A lot of people spent a lot of time trying to seriously engage you. My opinion was you just wanted to make it all about you. Your arguments just became tedious and tiresome. You came back with the same arguments no matter what was said. It was all just me, me, me.
I didn’t really get why you were there. By the end of the diary, I thought you were a troll – but I went and looked at something else and someone vouched for you that you were not. The discussion became unproductive. I was interested in the discussion because I’d seen the original one posted on the other blog. I was interested in you BMT would respond as opposed to the other blog. At first I thought it was great, that is where you were in your all reasonable stage, before it became apparent that you had no interest in listening.
I didn’t want to have any part of trying to engage you on that diary. You made weary people just more tired. Now you come here whining and playing all disingenuous.
it was unfortunate that the diary was disrupted with comments on rating abuse. My apologies for a couple of contributions to the clutter. We moved the discussion over here as best we could. I hope you’ll take the time to read through the comments on this thread, there was good discussion, even with tempers flaring, and it was finally resolved. I hope that the site will continue to mediate conflicts so we don’t get into a rating war around here. Thanks for your input, I’m not going to comment on Slacker or his tone because it’s not my place.
The diary was disrupted with ratings abuse because it seems that someone wanted it disrupted – coming here and starting an inflamatory diary about the mean Kossacks abusing him. Adding insult to injury after having disrupted the diary.
Because the diary was supposed to be a calm, meditative affair…right? @@ That diary was a no-holds-barred attack, and not on Republicans! Hardly seems sensible to blame me for begging to differ with the author, and then actually engaging in further discussion with those who engaged me. But I’m sorry, did you have a different script in mind?
Let me see if I follow your line of complaint:
(1) I was consistent in my beliefs and arguments;
(2) I didn’t “see the light” and jettison those beliefs by the time the diary was done.
Yeah, that’s awful. @@
As for “not listening”, I think my posts show otherwise to the fair observer. In fact, most of my posts used quotes of the person I was replying to, interspersed with my responses. Not sure how I could convey “listening” any better than that; but somehow I don’t think you really mean “listening” so much as “agreeing”. And no, I don’t agree with most people here about this issue, sorry.
Alan
Maverick Leftist
I’ve followed you in here….
You know I looked at this diary a little earlier, I looked at the comments and read through some of that diary. I decided that you were an absolute pain-in-the-*ss to be avoided at all costs, and agreed (just emotionally, not rationally) that you deserved all that and worse. I started thinking about everything we’ve all been through lately (Yep, I’m a refugee) and IIRC, you said something cutting to moiv – and dude, I have some serious adoration of moiv. That was it, if I had been in the original conversation…. I would have stopped being civil. Because I was (fortunately) looking at it after the fact – I just made up my mind – and decided you’re a jerk.
So I kept my mouth shut and walked away from this conversation.
My next encounter with you? A couple of minutes ago in the welcome thread where I really liked your style and appreciated that you just hopped in to chat and meet people. I learned bits and pieces about you, and found you totally cool. I hope you get as much of a kick out of Eats, Shoots and Leaves as I did.
What’s my point? I don’t think I have one really, I just wanted to throw this in here, and ask you favor… please never, never talk to me about abortion – but if you ever want to learn how to play backgammon, just let me know.
Hey, thanks for the post. I’m really glad, then, that Oui suggested I go check out the Welcome Wagon! Maybe we can play some online backgammon sometime. š
I don’t know what post it was that seemed “cutting” to moiv, but I don’t think moiv saw it that way. Check out this post which I took as very complimentary. (Then click “Parent” to read the post moiv was replying to, and check out my last line there for a little irony, in light of later events and this diary…)
Alan
Maverick Leftist
Alan, I participated in that thread last night, and it DID seem to me that you were being argumentative; rather than considering whether someone had a point, you just criticized the veracity of most of what was being said (I went to bed after I saw moiv had posted the WebMD information for you and it still didn’t seem good enough).
At the last point I read in the diary (Ihaven’t looked at it today), I don’t think you had done anything to deserve a 0. Sometimes we just need to agree to disagree and not try to take each other out over charged issues like abortion.
It’s funny, both of you took specific exception to my treatment of moiv. But s/he specifically complimented my civility! Oh well.
I was gone before the comments hit 50. Also, it is clear to me that moiv is very knowledgeable about the subject, and I thought it would have been nice if you had conceded that point, at least.
Have you been up all night?
LOL, yup…I’m kinda known for being a night owl, and/or just sleeping weird hours (when I can get away with it; right now my job as substitute teacher is in limbo for the summer, and I’m taking an online college class that can be done at any time of day.
But as for moiv, I think I did acknowledge that (at one point, I wrote something like “my mistake” etc.), and I think, again, s/he must have agreed or would not have complimented me so. š
is a saint – you can’t take credit for that.
…I tried to read it, really I did – but the neverending-ness of it is too much for me at the moment. I think my initial reaction when I first looked at the ‘What you don’t understand’ diary -was that you had hi-jacked what could have been an opportunity for the discussion to go in a different, very positive direction. Is it your right to engage in a debate that interests you here? Yep, absolutely. Did it drive me nuts that these women can’t find a single place in the entire freakin’ blogosphere to have this discussion without the same maddening interference that they’ve been experiencing for months? Yep, absolutely.
So, honestly – I went in thinking not about debate, not about verbal sparring, not about anything but how cool it could have been for all of these women who have taken such a beating lately to just be able to get together and chat and validate one another. Is that what this place is for? Nope, it’s not – but that doesn’t mean it wouldn’t have been a much needed experience for all of them. Do I think it could have been an integral part of cooling off, calming down and relaxing into this community with less animosity? Yep.
So does it make sense that you really pissed me off by your posts over there? Only in the context of thinking ‘why can’t men leave them be for just one single god-damn moment???’ – but there you were, first post. And instead of this diary evolving into one like Did age play a role in it?, which was a beautiful and much needed chance to relax and engage in community building – it instead required multiple warnings from Man Eegee, and resulting in angry ratings abuse.
Is there any other context that I could try to challenge your posts in? Nope.
We’re on for backgammon soon – I’ll enjoy kicking your ass.
I am sorry, but I honestly don’t see how that diary could go in a “positive” direction. It was openly hostile!
In any event, though, I was perfectly prepared to make my one comment, leave it there, and walk away. As that one dude (forgot his name) pointed out, I just responded after that to the stuff people directed at me, for the most part.
If someone wants to post a diary and say “this is for the gals to have a coffee klatsch” I would totally respect that and keep out. But otherwise, as I’ve been saying, I yam what I yam (a nice guy who loves to debate) and I have certain pet issues that I will tend to get worked up about and if I’m hanging out in a blog where they are being discussed, watch out! š
Alan
Maverick Leftist
..to you, and perhaps several others – I’m not going back to look. Can’t you just leave them alone for a little while? How hard could that be?
open suggestion to anyone – while I think the ‘coffee klatsch’ comment is… nevermind…. not gonna’ go there.
simple – tag at the top –
open to arguement – tell me what you think
or
please, we just need to feel good about something finally – if you can’t contribute to the well-being, stay out.
I wrote this earlier at different “out of the way” thread.
Be the rating, grasshopper.
This discussion is ridiculous. It just goes to show that we never get out of junior high school. I should give everyone a 1 (and if I could, I’d give me one, too) just for participating in this.
I also wrote this even further back:
Circular firing squad
1. The owner/organization/sponsor of the blog calls the shots. If you’re going to complain about the infringement of your right to free speech please go ahead and start your own blog – if your content is good maybe others will show up to read it. Or maybe not.
2. Longevity does not confer gravitas, quality of content does.
3. Being a newbie doesn’t quite confer a lower status, just the same, don’t be an [xxxxxxx] – and don’t be defensive about being new.
4. Wailing about being victimized doesn’t wear well on anyone. It’s laughable when it comes from supposedly self-reliant right wingnuts.
5. The opposition is organized – they come to the progressive blogosphere in mind boggling numbers to disrupt, sow dissension, and lower morale. Not everyone who posts on progressive blogs is who they want to appear to be. Trust me on this one.
6. Trolls and those intent on disruption should be crushed and mocked without mercy – and the management should remove them as soon as possible, leaving their wasted carcasses as an example for others. While recipe posting is a brilliant tactic, too much attention to battling trolls distracts the members of the site from other much more important business.
7. The media reads the blogs. They are lazy. They look for stuff which smells like dissension. You are irredeemably stupid if you uncritically and breathlessly repeat right wingnut talking points, stories, and memes. The media will use such because they are lazy, superficial, and stupid. Did I mention that they were lazy?
8. The odds are against any of us being the next great professional political strategist or pundit. Okay, considering the Faux News Channel and the rest of the cable news network talking heads this isn’t my strongest point. Don’t take it personally. Learn to throw an elbow and to take a head butt.
9. If the progressive blogosphere is to reach its true potential it will take all of us turning the philosophical and theoretical into the practical. If you haven’t already signed on to volunteer for a 2006 local or statewide campaign you’re just occupying space and wasting bandwidth.
Given the current state of our world there is a vast number of serious subjects we all need to expend energy on – to learn about, discuss, and take action – this is not one of them.
We have a tool in our possession which may help us change things for the better and here we are wasting it on this. Frickin’ amateurs.
No wonder we lose elections.
I know your post has the imperious form and haughty bearing of Received Wisdom From On High That No Mortal Dare Question, but I’m just not impressed by that sort of thing. š
As one who has been repeatedly reinforced by college professors and others as most definitely being able to “write intelligently and well”, I disagree. Not only did I lose TU status you-know-where, but more importantly I actually had many a post (and thus, in most cases, an interesting subthread) get zero-rated into oblivion. This was often after people had challenged me on some point, but without TU status I couldn’t find out what they said, and then of course later I got the “you evaded my question” bit.
This is the kind of talk that creates wild paranoia. How do I know? Because I have, many times, been accused of being a Secret GOP Spy. And since I of all people know I’m not a Secret GOP Spy, but also know how annoying it is to be called one when it’s not so easy to disprove, I am intimately familiar with the McCarthyesque witch hunt mentality your “warning” can foster.
I suppose you’d count me as one of “those intent on disruption”, and depending on how you define it you might be right. I relish a good debate. Things would be incredibly boring if all we did was say “I sure hate Bush.” “Yup, he sucks.” All true, but…so? I think it’s more important for us to hash out intraparty issues which are crucial to the future (you know, like how they do in the primaries), and that’s kind of my schtick.
Since BooMan personally emailed me to invite me here months ago, and he obviously had to know what I was all about, I think he must have considered my role to have value. If he didn’t know what he was getting into, or has changed his mind, he doesn’t need to ban me: he can simply say the word (or say that I need to change my ways if I want to stick around) and I’ll be gone before you can say “Yeeaaaaaarrrrgggghhhhh!”
Alan
Maverick Leftist
note that Paradocs gave my post a zero, and consider who exactly is being the childish/petulant one here.
Alan
Maverick Leftist
It won’t be. Learn to take your lumps and dish it back out as an adult.
Maybe you should ask for your money back.
Be the rating, grasshopper.
Where do you come up with these knee-slappers? “Maybe you should ask for your money back”…that’s great, never would have seen that coming.
Alan
Maverick Leftist
that inspired this diary was not appropriate. But, having said that, I agree with paradocs in this: whining is a waste of time, and I prefer outright ‘bitching’ to whining.
Your post got uprated by others, which shows the system is working.
You’re not a troll, and anyone who has been here for a while knows that.
What would “bitching” involve, as opposed to whining? I can do bitching, I bet. š
One more question for ya, boss: since you’ve weighed in on the initial rating, what about the zero Paradocs just gave me?
Whining is complaining while trying to appear to be reasonable.
Bitching is complaining and being unapologetic about it.
Of the two, I prefer the latter. You’re right that we don’t want to have an outbreak of ratings abuse. Hopefully, the community can self-regulate. From what I’ve seen, you can.
Thanks for jumping into the Welcome Wagon last night, do it more often ok.
I was thinking about this in my dreams last night i think and I have come to the conclusion that the problem here is peoples perception. When the rating number is less than a perfect 4 it makes us feel like we didn’t measure up in some way. Whenever I see that lower rating I always check to see who rated what, and wonder why. I think we see it in terms of good or bad, 4 being good and 0 being bad. In between is just in between.
I get your point that a 3 is still a rating, better than none I guess and it adds to mojo, but the perception is different than the facts and therein lies the problemo.
So guess people are saying they would prefer a none to a 3 or a 2.
Another thing I thought about was that why do you have to so critically analyze a comment and judge for content. If it is good enough to rate a rating then why not just rate a 4. Makes one feel as we have to live up to something or reach some grand level where the really good writers reside.
We are just trying to get our thoughts out, lord knows that is hard enough with out waiting for the judge to come by and give us their critique. Splash 4’s around, they make people happy and feel their words are being heard without judgement.
That is my feeling….
I guess I feel that splashing 4s around too much makes them kind of redundant (one can almost feel that it then becomes a kind of snub if you don’t rate every post on a thread with a 4, KWIM?), kind of like grade inflation. I want my 4s to really mean something special, and I also mean both 3s and 4s to be a quick way of acknowledging a comment without typing a million replies (more than I already do, LOL). I appreciate the feedback, though…who knows, maybe I’ll just stop rating anyone at all.
I enjoyed the Welcome Wagon thread, thanks. š
Alan
Maverick Leftist
I’ve heard that line of thought before.
But its really arrogant.
Your four averages out the same as everyone elses four. The blog doesn’t know the difference.
The other way to look at it (as being arrogant):
On average, do you feel you’re a much better writer than others?
Compare the average of the ratings you receive. That’s the community average.
Compare the average of the ratings you give.
If there’s a big discrepency, that’s basically the same as saying “well, I deserve all these 4’s, but you guys rate a 3.25″.
Build your reputation through the content of your commentary. Don’t try to shortcut it with numbers. You’ll get a rep all right, but trust me, it would be people fondly adoring the rare 4 from you.
(you may not like what I’ve written, but do me the courtesy of thinking about it before you dismiss it out of hand. You don’t have to agree to think this way, but that doesn’t mean that no one does. And odds are pretty strong that its more than just me who does.)
I don’t know how to check those averages (and I would be grateful if you would tell me), but I’d be very surprised if the average rating I receive was higher than the average rating I give.
Alan
Maverick Leftist
You ever hear of game theory? Or the famous tit-for-tat strategy?
Summed up, you get what you give.
The point of ratings here is much different than it was at dKos. The point of this site is different.
Diane below made the request you refrain from handing out 2’s and 3’s. You threw out another 3 to my post above.
Hint for you: its the second 3 I’ve gotten here. Both from you. Is my conclusion that there is something wrong with my writing? Hardly. Its a comment on you, my friend, not on me.
Point of ratings is to warn people from acting like trolls, label people as trolls for the purpose of removing trollish behavior.
It also serves as a way of handing out “mojo”.
3 isn’t mojo, my friend. A 3 is simply a diss. I know you want your 4’s to be “special”. I’m tellin’ ya, use your comments instead.
This is a friendly bunch. 4’s for the good stuff, 2’s to warn, 1’s and 0’s for trolls. The official ratings guide says 3’s are to downrate things you think have been given unwarrented 4’s. Even that’s a diss, by definition.
Anyhow, you also gave me a 4 this morning on another thread. So I’m going to assume the 3 above was because you felt singled out by my last post. I can live with that.
I’d hate to see the site become an echo-chamber, where ratings are used to subtly coerce folks to agree with us.
If it were my call, I’d simply disable 3’s. It takes a high degree of tact and self-control to judiciously use them as defined by the site owners. Then again, most folks here seem to manage with it just fine.
That’s pretty cool that you can think about things in your dreams!!
Don’t you think about things in your dreams. I was blogging the whole time in my mind and the darn ratings thing kept coming up. So I hashed that over and over and spit it out this morning. I also hashed over the abortion issue and discovered a new point at least new to me and haven’t heard talked about. I bet you want to know what that is don’t you slacker. I actually don’t know what side you take on the debate so if I decide to tell you my thoughts it will be without knowledge of that.
And if I do you have to promice no rating below 4. OK. none is ok too, but no 2’s or 3’s.
oops sorry that would be promise. Can’t wait to hear your reply slacker….
That’s pretty interesting…no, I don’t think about things that directly in my dreams. I might have some weird cartoonish exaggerated version of things show up in my dreams, like these stereotypical Freudian symbols, LOL. But generally not in the way you seem to be describing.
I promise, for you Diane, no more 3s (after the pair of 3s I just gave to Yaright–couldn’t resist, LOL). They were intended as a form of communication, and if they are not communicating what they were supposed to communicate, then they have not served their purpose. (Seems to me, though, that the 3 should be eliminated–or rather, the 4 should be–if there is no good use for two positive ratings.) I’m not going to promise never to give out 2s or lower, though, if they are warranted–but that is rare.
Will that work? š I’d like to hear the idea about abortion you “dreamt up”. <g>
Alan
Maverick Leftist
Dear zander,
I still have quite a buzz from the NYC-Kos meet-up this evening (see first few comments to diary) – so I won’t dig back through the history of this post now to figrue out why I deseve mention in this post:
I’d appreciate if you would clarify what the implication of that is? I’ll go back tomorrow to try to figure out where this is coming from, but please save me the effort. Thanks.
No. 1 – This is in the wrong place. This was meant as a comment to zander above (and it is misplaced in more than one way).
No. 2 – Dear zander- please read first line in my post above. I am also dense.
Time for bed.