Okay. I watched the Frog, er, Karl Rove on Hardball. And among other fatuous things, he said that they are going to continue to stonewall on the Bolton documents, and to insist on an ‘up-or-down vote’. Then I read this in the Washington Post:
“The president made it very clear that he expects an up-or-down vote,” Frist told reporters in the White House driveway after he joined other GOP lawmakers for a luncheon with Bush. “It’s not dead.”
For the life of me I can’t figure out what they’re up to. Frist wants to let Bolton die. Bush wont let him. The Dems aren’t backing down. A recess appointment is their only chance. Right?
So, why push for another vote? Is this about judges? Or is it just a way for someone in the administration to continue the humiliation of John Bolton? Or something else?
And I am going to be pissed if our leaders swerve first…
Or would they dare pull the nuclear trigger? Desperate times call for desperate measures, you know.
I think if you go back to what Harry Reid said from the get go is was going to be about the Bolton vote that is what the nuclear option was all about. It is about this administration getting their ways always and forever!
I am wondering if this is a way to bring back the filibuster but try and use it for everything now. Like you say..what else could they be up to. Something this way wicked comes. Sumptins up.
Yes, I wonder this too. I mean I can just see the talking points, the democrats obstruct us every which way we turn, we must allow the Preznit to have his nominees!
Is this Bushco’s “Plan 66”?
… is more like it.
It is an effort to make Dems seem like the bad guys for being obstructionist.
But, it is also an opportunity for Dems to show how abusive the GOP. Not only do they not respect the Democrats or the world community, they don’t respect the American system of government. The more they try to impose their will, the more they reveal of the fascists within.
mrboma’s got it right – it’s all about painting the Dems as obstructionists. My sense is that BushCo is trying to lay the groundwork to try to legitimize a recess appointment for Bolton.
of course, the bushco is not thinking of a two party system..they are thinking of a one party system here floks…this is what they have been preaching all along since “99 an upside 66 if you will…:o)especially with gw and rove it is anyhow. and all their cornies
You got it right. Bush and Rove know Bolton will never pass the Senate. They’ll put him in as a recess appointment anyway, but they want Frist to keep pushing the nomination vote so they can push the “Democrats are obstructionists” frame.
They both know that Bush is going to have great difficulty getting any face-saving SS result, and are probably looking toward losing some tax policy battles. I think their plan is to make lemonade from these lemons by demonizing the Democrats as obstructionists, to cow them back into passive complicity.
There’s no way this is going to work in the current environment. It’d take another 9/11 event for it to work, and then only if Bush could avoid taking the blame. It shows that Bush and Rove are falling into the fatal flaw of absolute rulers everywhere: they lose touch with reality when they start believing their own propaganda.
The guy is used to getting everything he wants and never being told no. He’s got this unfortunate uber-macho can’t-put-it-back-in-his-pants problem. Hope I’m not offending anyone. It’s sheer posturing – the whole administration has the same problem.
Bush wants what he wants and doesn’t back down. That’s what he’s famous for, why he has adoring fans. It could be as simple as that. Also, forcing one more vote makes it three’s-a-charm, doesn’t it? He’ll stand there with a smirk on his face and say something like, “The Dems forced me to make a recess appointment by obstructing my nominee three times. (He’ll hold up three fingers, giving fodder to photoshop manipulators.) They put partisan interests over filling this needed post at the UN.” Of course, he’ll mangle the words and say something close to this, only more absurd.
The hook in this story, for me, is how quickly Frist did a turn around after lunch with the Prez. He’s just a puppet and they yanked his strings.
not only that is is they way gs speaks about the UN and that they are going to clean it up..the they are them in the WH not the world..the reform is just that of the WH not the world…I heard that in his tone and in his words today.
Bush ever admitted he was wrong in anything he did. I think I read somewhere that he considers it a weakness to admit he is wrong or to change his mind. He has to remain resolute even in the face of possible defeat.
That was one of the hallmarks of his campaign. He was seen as resolute whereas Kerry was seen as the flipflopper. And, for Bush it worked. Whether or not it will continue to work remains to be seen.
I personally believe that his thinking is so distorted that he simply can’t imagine that he may be wrong. It is probably a psychological defect in his character.
The resolute theme was guided by many years of polling that says Americans would rather have a stong decisive leader who makes off-the-cuff decisions even if those decisions are wrong rather than a leader who will wait to get full information and then make a decision even if that decision is correct.
Strange but true.
(Actually, it is not “strange” but completely insane but there it is.)
says you’re on the right track with that.
It’s not about Bushco being right or wrong…it’s about the public perception they want to create.
Most folks I run into couldn’t begin to tell you the difference between an “up or down vote” and a recess appointment. I think the strategy is to repeat endlessly the chosen meme, and soon joe sixpack and buddies are all nodding their bobbleheads in unison with the Rethug. talking points. They don’t care about being right, just sounding right.
It’s kind of like when I worked with the Mock Trial high school program, and the attorney advisor would always teach the students to say, “Thank you, your honor,” no matter how the judge had ruled, because the jury probably didn’t follow the legal argument that had just happened, and by smiling and saying thank you, you could give the jury the impression that what had just transpired was actually in your favor.
Perhaps by refusing to admit defeat, Bushco is saying a kind of symbolic, “Thank you, your honor” for the benefit of the general American public?
Bush is rapidly approaching lame duck status. His Social Security initiative is not only going nowhere the more people learn about it the less they like it. His judges are on the back bench (pun intentional, all Rites Preserved) and he is getting clobbered on Bolton. Popular support for the Iraq invasion has turned. “Teri” turned out to be a disaster. And 9/11 is fading.
And the GOP congresscritters have to keep their ear to the ground for the elections next year.
What’s a lame duck to do? Talk big and hope no one notices he is carrying a small stick.
the mantle of a lame duck. If he loses on Bolton, he’s in big trouble.
I have to go with ya on this. I so want him to lose on this.. if he does then he falls big.. and it’s a poetic justice sort of fall. He’s gambling so much on not losing any ground at all he bsaically helps ensure “game over” if he does lose.
I think he will lose too.
OK. he might pull something out of his hat and pull it out.. but it’s so like him. He hates to lose and he never backs down until it’s obvious he’s lost. then he tries to cover up and make nice nice. If he loses on this.. there is no more nice nice ^_^
I think your right – He’s well on his way to quack Dom.
Frist said they didn’t talk about a possible recess appointment, I know he’s probably full of it. I really wonder how that conversation went. Maybe bush said he would proceed with a recess appointment if another vote wasn’t called? It could drag bush down even further after all of the controversy that has surrounded Bolton, and Frisk didn’t want to be dragged down with him?
Or maybe just some other threat was made about future support for Frist.
You beat me to it 🙂
I think this is really about two things. First, as you stated, Bush needs a win on something… anything. For now he has chosen to make his stance on this.
Secondarily though I think Bolton is important for Bush because I can’t see anyone else in a better position to pretty much single handedly destroy the UN and our relationship with them.
that Bush is putting all his cards on the table, hoping his party will back him up. It worked in the past but we are living in a different country than last year. For the first time, there is bi-partisan support for bringing the troops home–Iraq will be his Achilles Heel. He always used ‘terrorism’ as his strong point, and his support is eroding even on that issue.
He’s quacking up. I agree with the bood, we’re looking at a game of chicken.
Bush is forcing the hand of the Dem’s on all fronts lately. He’s agreed to eliminate the “personal accounts” aspect of Social Security, which will force Senate Dem’s to sit down at the table and discuss other options. Bush wants the up-or-down vote on Bolton, even though the documents required by the Senate, and Harry Reid, to move this thing forward are still not forthcoming.
Seems Bush has spent his pile (phftt!) of political capitol without accomplishing all he wants…and he clearly wants it ALL!
He’s a damn petulant fool, and unfortunately, the President for the next 2 1/2 years.
your middle paragraph hits on a point i’ve noticed and have been trying to explain in an easy to understand way. i call it “the how vs. why phenomenon.” Bush and his ilk always ask how. how can we get this done so we get everything and damn the consequences. Most liberals and some conservatives ask why. we assume we can do anything we want, but we require justification first. what good is it if it destroys the country?
“what good is it if it destroys the country”?
I feel the Bush administration has taken the “greed is good” philosophy to its furthest point. BushCo doesn’t care about the state of the nation, only the state of the greedy corporate handshake. Look at the missing billions in money earmarked for American contractors in Iraqi. And the Congressional Ethics Committee investigates the U.S. Postal Service six or seven times, but missing billions in money earmarked for Iraq? Zip, zilch, nada.
This administration runs the country as if it’s a corporation and we are the unsuspecting stock holders. While the media, like Arthur Anderson, cook the books, for a huge accounting lie.
We are going to soon wake up to a bankrupt nation- while Bush, Cheney, Rove, Rumsfeld, et al. waltz out of the White House with their bank accounts brimming, laughing at the ease with which they pulled this off.
I despair for my county and the younger generations who will be forced to deal with the mess left behind by this arrogant administration.
I absolutely agree with everyone who has pointed out that Chimp is incapable of admitting a mistake, he thinks he’s infallible.
Nor is there any room in his malignant narcissism to take responsibility for his actions, which concern the entire future of this nation as our lawmakers squander our precious hard-earned tax dollars wrangling over Chimp’s tragic nominations to high office instead of taking care of business for this country.
But there’s also a third possibility to consider, and that is the QPQ factor. Bolton is one of the ones who knows all of Chimp’s dirty little secrets, since he helped implement the hijacking of our nation, so Chimp has to do everything he can to uphold his end of the evil bargain.
You help me sell out America, and I promise to do all I can to advance your career. Quid pro quo. I think this could also help to explain Condi, Gonzalez, all of the whacko judges, etc.
So Chimp cannot be seen to back down from his end of the bargain, or else.
Bush is a petulant child: He wants what he wants and he has the hubris to believe that he’s not only right about everything, but that his righteousness is divinely inspired.
I wonder just how far his megalomania will go.
Until his heart stops beating.
I have a bad feeling that he might have some dirt on some of the weaker democrats who are voting against cloture. That is my first instinct. What does he need? Three, four more votes to get a comfimation vote? Bolton is probably checking into the dirt himself.
BTW, off topic, but I heard that Durbin gave a tearful apology on the Senate floor today for his remarks about torture tactics. When will they ever learn to stand the fuck up and never, ever back down?
Neither of them makes policy. Frist momentarily thought he did and got corrected. Bush is merely the Ambassador to the Media and Jesus.
As for Bolton, there’s no way for them to lose on him (is there?) so they probably should keep pushing.
Either they break the Democrats in which case they win, or else they don’t break them in which case Bush appoints Bolton anyways and wins, plus they get the media to paint the Dems as obstructionist which is also a win.
Nuclear seems like a certainty to me; the only question is when.
As for Bolton, there’s no way for them to lose on him (is there?) so they probably should keep pushing.
Who are “they”? Bush and Frist?
(Just want to clarify that before I comment).
Agreed that it looks like a potential win-win situation assuming W will do the recess appointment. But I don’t see the nuclear option reasoning behind it.
I have a great deal of difficulty dismissing these actions as merely hubris. It occurs to me that there may be more to the intelligence intercept information than just the info associated directly with Bolton, and ‘whatever’ that is could be potentially more damaging to other higher placed persons in the admin., up to and including W. The only thing another failed vote, followed up w/ said recess appt. buys them is a little PR, and NO harmful information is released…not necessarily the end of the problem but most assuredly no more information that could add to the mounting pressure being applied re: DSM.
Getting Bolton in at the UN just doesn’t seem like it’s worth this much trouble to them.
I ‘m not certain I agree. If Bush appoints Bolton, it’s more likely a loss. If Bolton gets in under those circumstance Bush seems like a dictator.. and he doesn’t want to look like one.
One of the prime rules of Machiavelli is that it’s all about appearences. Bush can be as authoritarian as he wants but it can’t be arbitrary and it has to be done fast enough so that he can gloss over his deeds…and I’m certain the Dems would not be letting him gloss furniture at this point.
I would think Bush would lose what (cough) political capital he still has by nuking through Bolton. Mind you, he may be desperate and tenacious enough to do it..but i don;t think it would be that smart.
That’s just my gut feeling on that, though!
…does the Cat Killer sit up and play dead, too? He’s already shown how well he rolls over.
can avoid a recess and thereby avoid a recess appointment?
It seems like the BushCo strategy is to get in a tank, start it rolling, and then just continue to move forward running over anyone or anything in its path.
You can’t talk to them at all because there is too much armour. When questions come up, like DSM, they just sit in the tank and refuse to open the door.
Trying to push Bolton through could be seen as an act of will (Triumph of the Will?). It’s not even about Bolton any longer, it is just that BushCo want to give the impression that they are undefeatable, unstoppable.
Unfortunately, it has been a pretty winning strategy, especially since they control the voting system now too.
We need to figure out how to break into that tank.
I think Frist did an about face because Bush probably lied to him like he did John McCain and told him he will help set him up for a Presidential nomination in 2008. Bush has probably already promised many GOP senators and governors the same thing and they all believe it because they believe what they want to believe.
Rove is always looking for opportunities. They want Bolton in the UN but the democrats are fighting it. By having the democrats fight this they will win by:
If the democrats don’t fight this, then Bush wins.
If they win really big by getting rid of the filibuster, Bush can pay back everyone who has contributed to his campaign.
If Bush does not push Bolton, he (in his mind) will only lose.
Who was Bolton spying on by looking at those intercepts? Someone must know. What IS the White House hiding? Why has this issue completely faded from sight? Isn’t this what the filibuster is about?
“Sen. Jon Kyl (R-Ariz.), who organized the lunch, said Bolton himself probably opposes a recess appointment because it would tie his hands. “Clearly that’s not the next way to go into office,” Kyl said.
If Kyle is right, Bolton himself shut the door on the recess appointment. Fairly straightforward answer to your question. They now have to either get another nominee (“Bolton Collapses! Stress Not Ruled Out!”); or continue the fight ’cause they’ve spent so much ‘political capital’ into it.
Stuck between a rock, and a hard case.
I think the obvious choice is that Rove knows what he’s up to – there’s always a point to everything he does.
In this case, they’re pushing Bolton to force the Democrats’ hands on the Filibuster. CW says that the Dems get to use it once, then the Pubs can bring up the Nuclear Option again. So if the Dems persist in preventing the “up or down vote” on Bolton, the Pubs hope to scuttle the Filibuster and give their hard right Supreme Court nominee clear sailing.