Ok Booman, since you broke your own rule I take it as a license. No, really, I don’t watch TV, blogs have become my main source of information as well as online news outlets.
I really, really like the folks over there, despite differing opinions. IT IS THE NEW SETUP! Jeez, it is such a pain to navigate now.
So please, Booman, keep the diaries at the right side of the page and front page topics in the center. I’M PLEADING WITH YOU! Really, my eyes go buggy with Kos’s new setup.
I stayed out of the pie-wars, not one comment despite strong feelings about it. In fact, I teach feminist critical theory in my lit. classes (Kristeva, Gilbert, Sontag, Cixious, Butler, etc.) and I am on the pro-pornography side of the very long debate between different feminist factions. I refuse to argue the subject in a knee-jerk way but rather in an “academic” mode of argument. So I held my tongue and considered everyone’s position objectively.
So that is definately not why I wrote this diary. This is a diary pleading with Booman not to muck up the site – if it ain’t broken, don’t fix it!
Thanks for a friendly site on the eyes, Booman, that’s my 2 cents.
Hear hear!
Leave well enough alone.
i’m not sure which would be worse…….ads going down the middle, or an ad in between each front-paged article.
No, seriously.
A site that respects me:
A site that profits off me
So, any of that sound familiar? Often the 2nd type of site starts as the first. Then the oldest plague known to creative types sets in. Often this is called “selling out”, and is done by artists and writers in every industry.
Its possible for folks to grow big without converting to Category B. Look at the music industry. There are big big acts that are still fan favorites. Then there are the sellouts. The sellouts often fade, but even the ones that survive are just hollow imitations of their former greatness.
Trying to earn your living as a community leader is hard work. It can be done, but the key is to make the community feel you’re earning your keep by serving them. When you put yourself and $$$ above their interests, you’re using them. That’s about as simple as it gets.
and it’s about respect for Booman, who has asked that these sorts of comments critical of Kos — not his page design — stop on this site. Post this there!
I was not being critical of Kos at all, or of his content. I’m sorry if that came across. No, I was just commenting on Booman’s suggestion to turn to the new software that Kos is using – and I really dislike it. It is just too difficult to browse. I hope that Kos square’s away his site soon, because I do like Kos. But if it makes my eyes go buggy, it’s not worth browsing in my book. I just don’t want to see Booman go the same route. Please excused any misunderstanding.
Clarification: Kos changed to CSS and redesigned his site at the same time.
They’re two different things. You could think of it as “back-end” and “front-end.”
There are plenty of good reasons – including increased accessibility to disabled folks, people browsing on PDAs and phones, etc. – to change from a tables-based site to a CSS-based site.
And if it’s done right, you may not even notice it has been done.
All that said, I have sympathy for anyone who’s trying to redesign a publication, whether magazine or web site or whatever. I’ve done both a few times. There is always a process of working out the bugs and glitches, and feedback always favors those who hate changes rather than those who find a new feature valuable or helpful.
Having been through the process, I encourage you to make your sentiments known where Kos will likely read them. That’s what I’d value if I were him. I’ve seen criticism of my redesigns in other venues, months after the fact, and felt like… “so why didn’t you tell me? I could have addressed that if I’d known it bothered you!”</e>
about advertisers does NOT bring back bakery wars. . . .
Sorry, Jeffersonian Democrat — I mean Yaright’s point re advertisers. . . .
I don’t give a damn about dKos or its owner. Booman has asked that criticisms aimed at dKos, or specific to dKos, be posted over there. I agree. But then, that wasn’t the way I saw my post. I think redesign results can’t be separated from redesign motivation. Do you think putting ads in the center is simply a layout decision?
I was posting about websites in general. Believe it or not, more sites than dKos have made this error. I’ve been involved in a few of them. I was posting this for the same reason many folks, Boo included, are posting about some other website’s redesign on this site.
Because change is inevitable.
And when the time comes for Boo to switch to a CSS based Boo Tribune, I hope to heck he remembers these threads, and takes them to heart. Its his website, its our community (collectively). And if he ever forgets this when its grown big someday down the road, and wants to treat it as his personal website… well, I hope that doesn’t happen. I don’t think it will.
But when a very large site in Democratic sphere of influence blunders, its relevant to other sites in the sphere, is it not?
In the future, Cream City, please let Booman speak for himself. Volunteer moderating done right is fine, but invoking the site owner is being a bit pushy.
And you might try masking your contempt a little better next time.
than ignore him.
And, here I was thinking I’m the only one.
I dropped by dKos today. One more time; to see if I was just being cranky when I last took a look.
It still makes me cranky. I won’t be spending any more time there.
Please don’t change, BooMan!
When someone uses “Why I now hate Dkos” as a title here on Booman it makes me less likely to visit Booman, frankly. What is the purpose of this complaint? If I read it on DKos I’d understand, but reading it here is annoying.
I get your point – “Booman, never change!” But the result is like Biden attacking Dean. Some people will like the new DKos and some won’t, but all of us are working to connect one another and disperse information as widely as possible.
Agreed. And why is it such a big deal how a site looks? We’re all just users, using dkos for free, the site works fine, pretty much as it has in the past. Booman is free to do as he wishes, he’s been good to us and does not need to hear this stuff about dkos. Leave it over there, not here.
Boran and SF,
I get your points. And I would have posted over there – if I could figure out where the diaries are.
OTOH, maybe it’s because I am using a Mac and running Safari.
Let’s forget for a moment that I mentioned the “k” word and say “widget maker X’s” site, less controversial. Widget maker x had a great functional site (except for occasional slow downs) that all of a sudden since the change seems to blow up on my browser.
Now, widget maker Y had a blog asking for opinions if the same improvements should be made on his site, which has since disappeared before I had a chance to comment. Sure, the sites belong to the owners. Just like I own a soccer ball and may take it to a picnic – but if it is deflated and no one can play with it effectively, they’re going to say “I hate your soccerball” with no ill meaning toward me.
I guess I wasn’t clear enough in pointing out that it has nothing to do with content but all about the new form. And Booman asked for opinions. Perhaps you are right – bad title.
would be something like “The Politics of Design” — not only could we bitch about the problems at dKos, we could also discuss design issues that could help Democrats doing campaign sites; I’m sure we’ve all seen some god-awful sites out there that we’d love to put in our two cents about.
I’m a budding Web geek (know some basic HTML, done a little with CSS1 but totally out of the loop on current CSS), and would enjoy a discussion of technical issues as related to attracting eyeballs with the purpose of educating the public.
Just a thought…
Maybe a better title would be something like “The Politics of Design” — not only could we bitch about the problems at dKos, we could also discuss design issues that could help Democrats doing campaign sites; I’m sure we’ve all seen some god-awful sites out there that we’d love to put in our two cents about.
Maybe a better subject would be asking people what they would consider the perfect blog. For me site design is only a small part of that (although abusively ugly and cloyingly commercial are clearly not…helpful)
I work in website design (more on the maintenance-and-update side than actual design). Everytime we redesign a client site, two things are always true, despite all the long hours of discussion, multiple design ideas presented, and work put into creating code and content:
— Some bugs wait until you go live to rear their pointy little heads and screw things up.
— Some people will love your new design, and some will absolutely hate it.
And the corollary: The reason most people will hate the design will be in the details, such as font colors, or size and placement of company logo, etc.
I’m not crazy about the new DKos design, but most of the complaints I have are related to functionality, and those Kos has stated he’s addressing. (Things like the fixed width, and placement of #%&@# blinking/animated ads, and so on.) Right now it sounds like they’re still squashing bugs, and those issues will be addressed. So I’m inclined to cut him (and his programmer) some slack until they’re done with the bug hunt.
I do find the Booman Tribune layout and design far easier on my eyes. Blogs are all about their content. They tend to be text-heavy sites, and so things like fonts make a huge difference. The diaries here are in a slightly larger typeface than the comments, which makes the diaries an easier read, but not too large, which wastes space. The comments are slightly smaller, which allows more of them to appear on the screen at one time, and shows their tree-layout, so you don’t forget whose comment you’re reading, but they’re still quite legible. The full width of the screen is used, which is good use of space. Still fine the animated ads annoying, but ads pay the bills, so I just try to scroll past the most obnoxious ones as quickly as pssible.
So I guess I’m saying wait until they get the bugs out and everything is working properly… then see how it looks, and how much is reader-customizeable, as Kos is promising.
And in the meantime, thanks to Booman for such a nice, easy-on-the-eyes site!
maintenance and update…had the position of “Web Shepherd” for one loooooong year in my parish church. Gave it up when they decided to do a web site redesign and I wasn’t up to the challenge (it’s actually what got me interested in pursuing design as an avocation, once I get my computer upgraded this year).
I’m still tempted to write that “Politics of Design” diary fairly soon; it might be a good discussion to have before we get into the next election cycle…