Just about everybody else has weighed in on Karl Rove’s remarks, where he called a goodly proportion of the American public unpatriotic and alluded to them being treasonous.
I found an old book in my house called “The American Political System and How it Works”, originally written in 1954. It reads like the most typical civics class you’ve probably ever had, and I was struck by this paragraph (page 18):
Referring to the Constitution of the United States –
The right of habeas corpus was guaranteed, to protect the people from arbitrary imprisonmnet by the police, such as we have seen in many totalitarian countries
The book is full of similar attitudes of superiority, mostly directed against the Soviets, comparing how the American system of governance was much fairer and more just than theirs. 51 years later of course, the Soviets are gone into the dust of history and… well our sense of superiority is rapidly vanishing.
I decided to look at the U.S. Constitution, about the most American document you can find. Literally. All quotes come from the U.S. House of Representatives‘ official website, while the link still works.
Article I, Section 9, Clause 2:
The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.
The last (and first) time that the government of the United States suspended this privilege was during the Civil War, which is clearly a case of “rebellion”. This was done on September 24, 1862 in an open and non-secret presidential proclamation:
That the Writ of Habeas Corpus is suspended in respect to all persons arrested, or who are now, or hereafter during the rebellion shall be, imprisoned in any fort, camp, arsenal, military prison, or other place of confinement by any military authority of by the sentence of any Court Martial or Military Commission.
Even though it seems like Lincoln had a clear-cut case of being able to suspend Habeas Corpus (nation being involved in a rebellion), the Supreme Court ruled that the suspension was unconstitutional because civilian courts were still operating.
So tell me, dear Karl Rove, how George Bush has the ability to suspend habeas corpus when the nation is suffering neither a rebellion nor an invasion AND that civilian courts are operating and functional AND that no presidential proclamation has even been issued? How is blatantly violating the Constitution being patriotic or even American?
Even if one were to say that the prisoners in Guantanamo Bay are neither citizens nor did they commit any acts on American soil (and therefore do not fall under the jurisdiction of American law), how can you deny that Jose Padilla is being held unconstitutionally? He is an American citizen, the same as you or I. He was arrested on American soil. The U.S. Constituton should apply to him, and if it doesn’t, whom else does it not apply to?
Let’s look at that American Constitution a little more shall we? Article III, Section 2, Clause 3:
The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed.
Well I don’t think anyone is arguing that Jose Padilla can be impeached, since he doesn’t hold any public office. Therefore if he committed a crime, including a conspiracy to commit a crime (which is in itself a crime), there where exactly is his trial being held?
Article III, Section 3, Clause 1:
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
Except that Jose Padilla hasn’t even been charged with treason. Maybe he did commit treason, maybe he was thinking about adhering to the enemies of the United States, but he hasn’t been convicted of anything. That’s because he hasn’t been charged with anything. And he certainly hasn’t confessed to anything in open court because he hasn’t gone to court.
And that’s just the violations of the U.S. Constitution that you, Karl Rove, and your boss, George Bush, have committed. This doesn’t even take into consideration the numerous subsequently established rights, such as the right to counsel, that you have denied to an American citizen on the territory of the United States.
What about the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution?
No person shall… be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law
Jose Padilla was “arrested”, although I hate to use that word since “detained by security forces” is a better verb, in May of 2002. It is now the end of June 2005. For three years Jose Padilla has been denied his fundamental rights as enshrined by the U.S. Constitution, the most American institution there is. So remind me once again, who is more anti-American that those who would act unconstitutionally Mr. Rove?
Pax
will probably be to have Alberto Gonzalez and some conservative legal eagle write up a 200 page paper documenting how the US Constitution is a “quaint document” that doesn’t apply in the era of the War on Terra (pun intended).
“You hate freedom, you love terrorists, you defend terrorists”
Been reading about Wounded Knee tonight. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Then, as now, incompetent and greedy men in the media, government and business agitated for action against a non-threatening nation which had been driven to the brink of starvation.
Then, as now, the vengeful soldiers in the field were cheered on by their political masters and reprehensible, savage and incompetent behavior was rewarded with promotion and medals of honor.
Then, as now, the Army refused to admit any culpability or error and adamantly defended the indefensible.
Then, as now, the disaster might have been averted if good advice had been listened to. Then, as now, the opposition was excoriated.
Then, as now, the commitments of the United States under treaty (which has Constitutional force) were ignored or consciously broken.
It seems we must now relearn the lessons of both Wounded Knee and Little Bighorn.
(Much of what I was reading can be found at this First Nations site and its associated links)
And send it out as a letter to the editor. Also send it out to any politicians of either party that represents you and use it as a demand to have Rove fired and Bush apologize to NYC in particular and America in general for Rove’s comments.
Seriously, we all need to be writing these letters and donating to MoveOn.org (the organization Fox News claims Rove was referring to with his comments). If we do, we have a chance to really turn the tide of opinion against these bastards.
The people, for example, in Guantanamo Bay, are Osama bin Laden’s bodyguards. They’re suicide bombers. They’re terrorists. They’re murderers and these are bad people. These are not good people. In fact, we’ve been releasing hundreds of them, and 11, 12 have already turned up back on the battlefield trying to kill innocent men, women and children.
Now, I happen to think that the president was right, that you do treat terrorists differently than you do people in the criminal justice system in the United States. And I think that the issue that Senator Graham raises is one that deserves debate and discussion. And I’m–this is–we’re in a new era.
MR. RUSSERT: Well–and Senator McCain believes everyone deserves a trial, but we only have a minute left.
SEC’Y RUMSFELD: Of course, they are getting tribunals and being reviewed and we’re trying to do military commissions. And at the moment, the federal court’s holding them up.
Beyond that, I think everybody should read the complete transcript if they missed the show. Rumsfeld’s arrogance and stupidity is astounding.
Look at the above quote I highlighted. He’s convicted all of them without a trial or tribunal. He then gloats about the fact that they’ve let those same “murderers” and “terrorists” go – only to have “11, 12” come back. “11, 12”. That proves they were all murderers and terrorists, doesn’t it Rumsfeld?
Take note also that the main purpose of subverting the constitution is for intelligence gathering and we all know how they’re handling that. Gitmo isn’t about justice. It’s about torture.
The man makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. The more I see him and think about the fact that he’s running this war, the more aggravated I become.
I caught that part of the interview as well, and was completely mystified. I think he screwed up a talking point; the way he said that, it isn’t going to make ANYONE happy.
Those of us who are pretty sure that there are shady dealings going on in Gitmo see that for the abuse of power that it is, in wrongfully detaining/imprisoning those people.
Those in the Faux news community are going to read that and think “Wait, you’ve got all these murderers, and terrorists, and you’ve been releasing hundreds of them?!?!?”
I just don’t get it.
Talk about damning with faint praise…
The founders of our country, you know the folks who wrote the Constitution based on their experience with a power-hungry despotic government, believed that everyone deserves a fair trial by a jury of their peers. It’s really nice McCain feels the same way. Maybe his belief will help him grow a spine… But his belief is beside the point. He isn’t the final arbiter in this case, and neither are Rumsfeld, Bush, Ashcroft, Gonzales, or any of the rest of the Persecute and Plunder Brigade. Their opinions don’t matter.
Nowhere in any document did any of the founders say, “Oh, and by the way, you can decide not to apply these rights to someone who, in your opinion, is a special case.” If there’s one thing their experience taught them, it was no loopholes.
Even if one were to say that the prisoners in Guantanamo Bay are neither citizens nor did they commit any acts on American soil (and therefore do not fall under the jurisdiction of American law)
Constitutional rights are not limited to U.S. citizens. The Constitution is clear in that the rights apply to all persons, whether they be citizen or alien. Furthermore, American courts can have jurisdiction over defendants for acts committed outside “American soil.” The issue has been whether the Gitmo detainees could be considered foreign combatants not subject to jurisdiction of American courts under precedents set by cases during WW2 involving German citizens who were plotting against the Allies, captured in China, and were subject to military, rather than civilian trials. The government has also claimed that U.S. courts don’t hold jurisdiction over the territory of Guatanamo.
Almost exactly one year ago, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in favor of the detainees holding that the U.S. lease with Cuba provided for American courts’ jurisdiction over Guatanamo. Also, that the Gitmo prisoners are not analogous to the German citizens aforementioned because the detainees are not
foreign nationals of countries at war with the U.S., they deny acts of aggression against the U.S., and the Gitmo detainees have been denied any tribunal review. Therefore, the Gitmo detainees have access to American courts for habeas corpus review of their detentions.
The Gitmo detainees writs of habeas corpus are now starting to make their way through the court system.
I fully agree with you Poobah… but instead of lumping the bearded non-citizens with Padilla I wanted to separate his case just for clarity’s sake.
Jose is an American citizen detained on American soil. Open and shut case that the laws of the United States should apply. So why don’t they? And who can compel the President to obey them?
Pax
I agree that the Padilla case is a disgrace. The only people that can compel the President to obey the Constitution is the Supreme Court. As much as I hate the term, I can see why people would say that Padilla’s case is lingering in the court system because of a “technicality.” Last year, the Supreme Court ruled 5-4 that Padilla’s case was filed in the wrong court and they won’t render an opinion on the habeas corpus issue until Padilla’s attorneys make their way back up the chain starting from a new jurisdiction. The Court gave indication that they would rule in Padilla’s favor if the case met proper procedural rules going through the system. However, this is clearly a case of justice delayed being justice denied and all Americans’ rights are being trampled upon.
The book is full of similar attitudes of superiority, mostly directed against the Soviets, comparing how the American system of governance was much fairer and more just than theirs. 51 years later of course, the Soviets are gone into the dust of history and… well our sense of superiority is rapidly vanishing.
In an interview with the Red Cross, he said that we are no longer a moral authority in the world because of our widespread use of torture.
One of the biggest oxymoronic phrases out there is “the American conservative movement.” The conservative movement of Goldwater might have been American, but the current batch of militarists, totalitarianists and dominionists are anything but American.
So when Rove or Garcia or Frist or DeLay open their mouths, I expect to hear rhetoric worthy of Brezhnev or Mao or Franco or Castro. They sound like a bunch of Communists or Fascists! (Take your pick.)
Either way, the things they espouse are un-American.