Both Susan and I jumped on this morning’s front-page Washington Post article. I read it last night and decided to stick it in the face of Bush voters. I woke up this morning, and I still feel like sticking it in the face of Bush voters.
Okay. Get it? Read it again. Digest it.
There are three points. The most important point is that the war was illegal from Britain’s point of view, unless we could get a UN Security Council resolution authorizing force. Cheney didn’t give a shit about the war being illegal until it was pointed out to him that we would need to use British bases, like Diego Garcia, even if the Brits sat the war out. So, we devised a wicked plan to entrap Saddam into failing to comply with inspections. But before we could do that, we had to get Resolution 1441 passed. Here’s a snip from 1441:
The Downing Street Leaks clearly show that we did not have the ‘aim’ of disarming, but of ‘wrong-footing’. The terms of 1441 were negotiated, but the Anglo goal was to entice Saddam into non-compliance. Short of that, we hoped to convince the Security Council to pass a second resolution that would make the war legal.
We failed on both counts. Which leads to the next point. The war was ill-conceived.
We did not avoid it. Iraq is a disaster. It’s a disaster for all the people that have died. It’s a disaster from a fiscal point of view. It’s a disaster from a military readiness point of view. It’s a disaster from a public relations point of view. And tonight Bush is going to give a speech where he tells us it was all worth it, it was well-planned, it was legal, and it is going well.
Bullshit. While the right-wing was busy tearing down the French and exalting Tony Blair, Blair and his advisors secretly agreed with Chirac. No one believed Bush except the Kool-Aid drinkers. And now you Kool-Aid drinkers need to step away from the punch bowl, put on an hairshirt, cover yourselves in ashes, and begin to repent your biggest sin: that you ever believed a word that this administration and their bought and paid for corporate media sold you.
It was all lies. All of it.
I’m pretty tired of arguing about this war, and especially tired of the abuse that gets hurled at me when I do. So this will be my only post in this thread. But I do want to just say, again, for the record: I never believed (or, really, cared about) the administration’s WMD case. That black-and-white presentation (either you believed the Bush admin and supported the war, or you disbelieved them and opposed it) unfairly paints with too broad a brush.
-Alan
————————
Support Hugo Chavez: Fill up your car at CITGO!
————————
it was possible to see the merit in removing Saddam from power, and see WMD as a mere legal pretext, and support regime change.
But that doesn’t change the fact that behind the scenes the Brits thought the case for WMD was ‘thin’, that Saddam wasn’t threatening his neighbors, and that we were not planning for the post-war period with any realism.
If you think it is okay to launch an illegal war, based on a pack of lies, to treat the UN as a dupe and a tool for entrapping Saddam into causing a casus belli for war, and then to invade with less troops than our generals felt we needed, and then to let the country fall into chaos, and then to torture people (to death), and then to level whole cities to the ground, and to misplace 8 billion dollars…
Eventually, you must repent.
…you’re tired of arguing about this war? You’re tired of abuse? Try arguing about this war and being called a traitor to America, a terror-symp and the reason so many soldiers are dying in Iraq.
Uh…what’s your point?
Here you are on this site, you have all this opportunity to learn the facts. Yet you still cling to the idea that this war was a good idea.
You don’t mind that it was illegal and unecessary or that we killed over 100k Iraqis.
What the hell are you hanging on to this fantasy for?
PS…. please sign up and help out the troops. They really need people like you who believe in the war or they are going to start drafting the people who know better.
I don’t give a shit if you believed in WMD. How do you justify this war besides Saddam was a bad bad man?
The WMD case was the one that was made, because a) it was the only case to be made that had any hope of making this war comply with international law, and b) in lieu of any evidence of Saddam’s participation of 9/11, it was the only case for national security that could be made. Therefore, it is really the only justification of any relevance. We were lied into war, subverting our Constitutional process, and subverting international law. There is no meaningful justification of this war.
envision a situation where we used WMD as the legal justification for a war that we felt was necessary for other reasons. But there are numerous problems with how this was done in this case.
Therefore, the whole decision to use WMD, and prior UN resolutions, as the casus belli failed.
It would be one thing if we had either:
a) found a cache of menacing weapons that the inspectors never would have identified and destroyed, or
b) succeeded in getting a UN resolution authorizing force.
But we got neither.
And then there is the whole issue of NO PLANNING, of unrealistic assumptions. A total lack of realism.
Put it all together, and there is no way to justify the approach the US took, or to look at the result as anything less than a catastrophe.
And then there is the moral element…
I will never understand how ANYONE can still defend this ILLEGAL OCCUPATION that is a total clusterfuck based on lies. Slacker, if you feel so abused why even bother other than to stir up controversy. I for one will no longer even try to be civil to anyone that thinks this ILLEGA OCCUPATION based on lies is okey dokey. You need a brain transplant….calling George.
You know, if you think that you can create reality and overvalue your own intellect, you could talk yourself into thinking that that stream of traffic doesn’t really exist and end up walking into the path of a Kenworth doing 65. Then blame it all on the guy at the curb screaming “Hey Asshole, you’re going to get hit.” That’s what Bush’s neocons remind me of. They think their intellect is so perfect but a 10 year old has more common sense. They had themselves deluded way before this war started, Narcissistic assholes, and now they haven’t a clue what to do about it.
Hairshirt? Repent? You must be joking.
In the fall of 2003, Thomas Donnelly a senior fellow at the arrogantly named Project for a New American Century and at the American Enterprise Institute, said with a sneer:
One would think that reality on the ground would have deflated their hubris by now. Instead, the PNACkers and their ilk talk about adding 25,000 troops a year for several years to meet American’s “generational commitment” in the Middle East. Their failure in the Iraq Attack Debacle isn’t really a failure, they say, merely a lack of will among many Americans fueled by traitors and fifth columnists. We, not an arrogant U.S. imperialism, are the reason the U.S. lost in Vietnam and if we aren’t silenced we will be the cause of a lost Iraq, according to these assholes.
yeah, I don’t expect repentence from the PNACers, just from the average Joes that believed in their government and the editorial pages of the NYT and WP, and Hardball, and Wolf Blitzer, and Faux News.
…comes to your house.
you rarely receive.
Apparently, Santa still comes to John Kerry’s house too 😉
and the rest of them have no souls. They don’t give a rats rear end about the death and destruction they have caused. The men and woman that have sacrificed their limbs, their sanity and their lives mean nothing to them. They don’t care about the spouses, parents, siblings, children and friends who watch TV or log on to the computer with trepidation for fear of hearing the worse. The agony families of soldiers overseas have every time the phone rings or the doorbell chimes.
I watched a documentary on German television last night called “Fahnenflucht”. It was about Americans who chose not to serve and went to Canada. They showed a Marine that did serve and you wouldn’t believe the amount of pills he has to take. He killed innocent Iraqi’s and in the process, killed his sanity as well.
To Bush: War is hell pal. Get off your ass and start using some diplomacy and stop making people’s life a living hell. If you can’t do it, then get the fuck out of office and let some grownups take over!
My feelings exactly, BooMan. 20 years ago.
It’s not exactly scathing and focuses not at all on Bush’s lies and high crimes, but instead on the dkos folks and Liberal types who won’t let it die. It’s a Harvey Milketoast article, probably written to stop emails, but here it is. Wall Street Jopurnal still sucks out loud. This article is free… no registration required.
For the WSJ, this is good coverage.
Free plug for Kos and liberal blogs, and they’re left in wonderment that a handful of activists can actually accomplish so much, especially at the end of the piece.
Yes, there’s a comparison to the Swift Boat Veterans, but I’d take that as a sign that we’re gaining traction and starting to gather momentum.
There’s a note of respect and maybe a hint of fear in the article I didn’t expect; I expected the WSJ to pass us all off as a bunch of loonies. They may still think we’re loony, but there’s a bit of recognition that this isn’t going to fade away easily.
I’m glad you followed the link. I read it while still in the throes of anger after reading Booman’s latest front page article. That rabble rouser, and I’m just the rabble to get roused. Your take on the article is probably quite close to the mark. Yes, I admit, for the WSJ it is a little removed from their usual stuff. Perhaps signs of a hairline crack. (heh heh)
Off topic, but speaking while vaguely “still in the throes of anger” of all things BUSHit…I have to admit that I took some offense of your use of the term “Harvey Milketoast”. And because I believe in calling on people to bring awareness to what is said that continues to negate, oppression and stereotype people, I’m feeling the overwhelming need to say so.
As an accepting and openminded liberal, much less a lesbian and a SF Bay Area resident, Harvey Milk was most definitely NOT milquetoast and I don’t appreciate the use of his name in such a derogatory manner. Harvey Milk stood up for himself and others who felt powerless to do so. He motivated others to be proud and speak up. He believed that we ALL deserve to live freely and be represented in the political process, regardless of your sexuality…among other things. And he was murdered because of it.
Besides being a cartoon character, “milquetoast” is defined as “One who has a meek, timid, unassertive nature.” To use Harvey Milk’s name in such a way really connotes “wimp”, “fag”, “wussy”, “weak”. And you’re not going to convince me that that usage doesn’t continue to exude discrimination and oppression.
So, although I’m not angry at you now, I ask that you please think about your usage of that term and use the appropriate “milquetoast” in the future.
Do it again…I’ll kick your ass.
Very sorry to offend… I thought that was the original character from the 50’s that I’m quite sure you don’t remember. I know who Harvey Milk was and have nothing but respect for the man. I’m incapable against prejudice against gays… I loathe being unfairly judged and try not to do it unthinkingly. I was a bit riled and didn’t think about being offensive.
As for this: “Do it again…I’ll kick your ass”
Ha…I don’t freakin’ think so…you’d have to catch me first and even though I’m over 50, I can lift a 50lb bag of horsefeed or a 60lb bale of hay quite easily so I could knock you on your
own ass faster than you could say… truce. 😉
Okay…we’ll shove Caspar Milquetoast out of the way, you throw your hay and I’ll toss my caber…and truce will be called. 😉
Holy shit… I just followed your link to caber…. I think you win. Truce it is and again, accept my apology. I won’t be that thoughtless again.
That Bush and Hussein are cut from the same cloth, to me is readily apparent. Both are despotic, arrogant, self important, walking cluster fucks, who care little for the people of their countries. They only care about hanging on to power and how to enrich themselves at what ever the cost will be to the people of their countries. Hussein lost his power because Bushco wants to go down in history as a War time President, who lead the charge of democracy in an area notorious for American supported totalitarian regimes.
Bush is a liar, a chickenhawk, who saw only a way to repay all the corporate suck ups that bought and paid for him getting into the whitehouse. That he has no soul is apparent when he is televised, there is no light behind the eyes. He craves and receives rave reviews of his actions, not from the people, but from his sychophants, who keep telling him that his actions coincide directly with the will of the American people.
As for the PNACers, they are just a front for the theocratic nazification of the USA. To enrich and insure that the corporate elite have the full faith and authority to control the United States of America and turn her citizens into good little corporate consumers, without a care for what is happening to their country or the world around them.
Do I despise Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Delay, Blunt, Cornyn, Robertson, Falwell, Dobson and the rest of the these murderous chickenhawks who’s only consideration of other human beings is what can I gain from them. How can I exploit them to the fullest and gain the most capital from them before discarding them as so much trash. I can only pray that the corporate suckups in the MSM, will wake up soon and see that they are just a means to an end for this criminal regime and when they are done with you, you too will be added to the discard heap.
I believe that if we keep holding up the light of truth, honesty, integrity and bold initiative we can defeat these fascist reichwing criminals and retake our country. Hopefully we can right many of the wrongs perpetuated upon the people of America and the rest of the world. I miss the America I grew up in, with all its warts and rough spots, it still was a land where I could feel free to speak out when I saw inequity, where I was not afraid of my government and I felt I was actually a part of the decision making process, because my vote actually was counted in free and fair elections. Is that too much to ask?