The properly prescient title might be:
“Karl Rove Said to Be Plame Proof”
We shall see.
“It’s of keen interest to me to see whether or not we can get Karl Rove frogmarched out of the White House in handcuffs. And trust me, when I use that name, I measure my words,” said BooMan, er Joseph Wilson, in August 2003.
Here is the transcript of O’Donnell’s remarks:
“What we’re going to go to now in the next stage, when Matt Cooper’s e-mails, within Time Magazine, are handed over to the grand jury, the ultimate revelation, probably within the week of who his source is.
“And I know I’m going to get pulled into the grand jury for saying this but the source of…for Matt Cooper was Karl Rove, and that will be revealed in this document dump that Time magazine’s going to do with the grand jury.” – Media Info via Truthout
Hats off to Intellectually Curious, who diaried this last night.
and teflon coated that I’m finding it difficult to accept that he may have finally been caught with his britches down. UEW! I just got a visual, BAD VISUAL!
Don’t let bood abides read this!
and latest research says that teflon can cause cancer or cancer releasing carcinogens. And he is a cancerous growth in the white house.
What will happen, do you think?
I think there will be a massive flurry of GOPers screaming that executive privilege should extend to Karl, and they will try to hide it, OR the Washington Post will do a story claiming that Rove’s outing of Valerie Plame is “old news” because we all suspected he did it anyway.
What do you think?
Do you have to be so honest right off the bat? You’re blowing my high.
Shoot! I feel guilty about posting nonpolitical diaries here, so I try to be insightful on a thread, and I’m really just depressing everybody…ACK!
Will you all forgive me? ;^)
Instead of trying to be insightful you are taking the factual outcomes of previous dealings with this administration and applying them to current situations. That all hits the factual side of my brain and it digests it into VERY COLD WATER! And then the factual side of my brain runs over to my creative side who is having a warm fuzzy Rove in prison dream and it throws the water on it. This kills all the endorphins that my creative side was making damn it, and my needs are not met again and I have to go out there and really figure out how to kick some ass. You have stopped “trying” to be insightful and now you are just INSIGHTFUL. Shame on you!
I prefer indictable. 🙂
You’re such a nutbar! hugs 🙂
Ok, how about this: The great unraveling begins. Criminal charges are filed, Bush has a very public meltdown, the masses are outraged and rise up in protest, the Democrats sweep the midterms, the corporate media cleans house and the impeachment is covered 24/7.
The lyrical beauty of your statement has brought a tear to my jaded eye… :^)
Warm fuzzy endorphins!
If this is true, I don’t think the White House can fully protect Rove. Bush would have to fire him or risk a minor constitutional crisis — if Rove is indicted, that is. Of course, what’s a little constitutional crisis when you crave absolute power?
The smart move would be fire and pardon Rove, allowing the WH to keep Rove’s cell phone in its Rolodex, though there are payphones in federal prison, from what I understand.
another reason that consulting firm was hired last week…?
What consulting firm? Where? What did I miss?
I believe I read Monday or so in the NYT where they hired a consulting firm to begin spinning the “stay the course on the war” message…
(from the Washington Post)
some links to more details in a diary a put up a few days ago….
I’m just so happy that Bush doesn’t pay any attention to polls. That’s what he has Karl Rove for… when he’s not out committing treason.
The good news on all this is that it’s far too late for Bush. The bad news is that it will probably help prolong the war and get lots more kids killed on both sides.
thanks
> I’m just so happy that Bush doesn’t pay any attention to polls. That’s what he has Karl Rove for…
well, Bush et al sure are paying someone to pay attention to all sorts of numbers now:
from Gelpi and Feaver’s 2004 paper “Casualty Sensitivity and the War in Iraq”(PDF)
A day late and a dollar short for these guys, too.
moved into the White House in January 2001 was the Pardon Cabinet.
They’re all typed up, signed and filed for every official and functionary in the kabal.
well, if things are what they really are, the law says that it is against the law to out a CIA agent for the reasons it was done there. NO matter who did the wrong, it was not a good thing to do.
What will happen is yet to be seen. I hope they throw the book at him. I hope he get time in prison over this one. He has hurt so many ppl in his lifetime. It will be seen in the immediate future what will happen.
I think dubya knew from the getgo that it was Karl baby who outed her. Just do not forget that Daddy Bush fired him for being nasty they only what Karl can be. Jr. is not as honorable and loves what Karl does, for it sets right with his own way of thinking and doing. Revengeful ppl… they are all that and more.
I think Mr. Wilson said it was Karl from the get go. NO wonder Cooper and Miller did not want to out him. I can imagine they felt their lives depended on it, in more ways than one, too.
I am not suprised either, that it is he who is the bad guy here. Probably with good wishes, pushing, and instigating from dubya too.
As much as I would like to see the insidious Rove, (and indeed the rest of the Bush regime’s operatives as well), marched off to prison for “crimes against the nation”, I suspect that if it is revealed that Rove was the “leaker” in the Plame affair, that he’s likely to get little more than a scolding.
From the very beginning of this whole case, the rightwing propaganda machine has pressed the point that it’s doubtful a crime has been comitted, since Ms. Plame’s identity was widely known and since she was not an active undercover agent anymore. Whether these 2 claims are true or not is another story, and in any case, with this administration, truth is beside the point anyway. The point is that these claims would be the most likely mechanisms used to get Rove, (or anyone else), off the hook for major criminal indictment.
If Rove is “Bush’s Brain”, as so many of us seem to believe, it’s pretty hard to believe he’ll be allowed to be taken down by this affair. That he is a criminal in spirit is beyond doubt, and bringing him to task for his malfeasance would be great. But, I’m not going to hold my breath. This whole regime has placed itself above the law and so far no one has been held to account for even the slightest infraction. In fact, the most egregious abusers of truth and power have all gotten promotions.
The crime of treason is what the right-wing spinners have been trying to cast doubt upon. It appears that what Fitzgerald has done is expand the investigation into perjury and obstruction of justice issues. It has been reported that he “knew” who the leaker was and the conjecture now is that he’s building a corroborative case for prosecution on those grounds.
Rove, Bolton and Novak have had a long and sordid relationship-the sweet justice of three three of them disgraced is almost too much to ponder. If this pans out it’s going to be impossible for W to claim anything remotely close to plausible deniability.
OH YEAH! 4 th of July fireworks indeed…
Peace
I agree with you that seeing odious creatures like Bolton, Novak and Rove go down in flames would be worthy of national celebration.
I’m reminded though that both Fitzgerald and his boss Comey are political appointees, and as such, the likelyhood that the independent nature of the investigation is compromised is quite high. It could very well be that, rather than expanding the investigation to include “perjury and obstruction of justice issues”, it may be that this shift might be intended to replace the more serious original felony charges with these lesser ones.
As to Bush being able to claim deniability about Rove, certainly many of us would regard such claims as ridiculous on their face, but, I’m reminded that almost 60 million people actually voted for this imbecile, so many will believe whatever he says, no matter how absurd.
And yes, Fitzgerald and Comey are political appointees. However, the appointment of Fitzgerald was touted as evidence of the apolitical nature of the investigation, in light of his very aggressive prosecution of, I believe, the R governor of Ill. Additionally, and probably much to his dismay, W is on record as saying whoever violated the law in this matter will be taken care of.
That being said, given W’s current approval rating of 42% + -, it would appear that a major portion of those 60 mil voters are suffering from a deep sense of “buyer’s remorse”. When/if his ratings drop into the 30% range the only thing remaining will be the hard core base…and even a lot of those folks understand the concept of ‘law’ much better than the machinations of politics. The average person has probably a much clearer concept of perjury and obstruction of justice than high crimes and misdemeanors, having more than likely been involved in some legal action themselves.
Charges and conviction of persons highly placed in the administration will be a major setback to their agenda, which is already floundering. Death by a thousand cuts, as it were. Any deflating of their support or crack in the wall will be seen as a sign of weakness and vulnerability, even by the R’s, and can be used by the D’s as ammunition in the coming mid-terms. If things continue in this vein the odds for regaining control of one or both houses of congress improve dramatically. Remember, is was a bungled burglary and subsequent attempt to cover it up that led to Nixon’s downfall…oh the irony of it all.
It will be interesting to watch this play out.
Peace
I agree with everything you say. My point, (somewhat poorly articulated previously), is that regardless of whether Bush can claim “plausible deniability” or not, the likelihood of his regime being brought down before they serve out the full term is, IMHO, miniscule.
None of the actual perpetrators of this crime need any more votes. All of them are going to be out of office at the end of 2008 anyway, unless they declare martial law.
If we had a “Deep Throat” or a “Daniel Ellsberg” coming forward with incontrovertible proof of crimes committed, and if we had a media able and willing to front such a story diligently, then we’d have adifferent situation.
Absent these ingredients, I’m not hopeful of being able to bring down Rove, but I do agree with you wholeheartedly that if and when someone in the Bush cabal is fingered for this, the Dems should use it for all it’s worth against the repub machine.
What has to be hammered now is not only the commission of a felony in leaking Plame’s identity, but the way that this screwed up a worldwide investigation into WMDs, since she was a sensitive expert, ie tie this into the Bush administration’s utter inability to govern, especially in matters of national security.
But facts aren’t a lot more threatening in this 3rd world electoral system than analogous ones are in any of the smaller ones.
Unless a major media corporation is somehow spooked into turning journalistic, the country doesn’t have the available idea space for usefully hammering such ideas.
You’re right about “facts”. “Truth” doesn’t seem to be very important to a great many people in the public arena these days, and certainly not to the media mannequins masquerading as real journalists.
The media wonks are like sideshow “barkers”. Their business is entertainment, not enlightenment.
Because of this, there’d be a better chance of Karl Rove being ousted because of a story suggesting he had a sexual liason with James Guckert than because ofhis serial crimes against the nation.
Pin the Tail on that um Elephant. That is awesome!
or Pin the Tattle-Tale on the Elephant.
I also like “Plame-Out.”
TREASON
I am starting to develop my own conspiracy theory about this. Notice that Time is giving up these notes over the objection of Cooper. Jeff Greenberg floated a rather interesting idea the other day on CNN when he suggested Cooper and Miller hang tough and Bush could “pardon” them if they were jailed. I also find it rather curious that Cooper is represented by former Bush Solicitor General and chief attorney in the 2000 battle to stop the Florida recount, Ted Olson; and by Miguel Estrada, former Justice Department lawyer and one of the Bush judicial appointees rejected by the Democrats. Both have been mentioned as possible Bush Supreme Court nominees, and one would think that neither would have any interest in outing Carl Rove, nor any other high-ranking White House employee.
Don’t forget, this is no simple case of journalists protecting sources. We are talking about two journalists protecting White House employees who leaked the identity of a CIA agent involved in stewmming the dissemination of WMD. Their act is very likely a felony, and there was no public good served it. Moreover, remember that Judith Miller, more than any other journalist, helped this administration “fix” the intelligence to justify the invasion of Iraq.
My own opinion is that the way was being paved to help Miller and Copper protect their sources and thereby prevent the indictment of Carl Rove and perhaps others. Time magazine, by releasing these papers, has thwarted the plan. Perhaps they were not in on the fix.
Notice that Time is giving up these notes over the objection of Cooper.
Cooper didn’t actually say he objected. He said he understood that Time had corporate interests quite seperate from his personal concerns and that he would accept whatever decision they made. I think you can say that he preferred Time wouldn’t relent. Objected is too strong a word – unless he’s made some other statement since the one just after his last court appearance that indicated this. If so – point me in the right direction!
I am not really certain about this. You may be right, but there is no doubt that Time’s actions did not have Cooper’s ringing endorsement. I don’t know that it is all that relevent to my argument though, which is that the involvement of Olsen and Estrada is curious at best.
…and I agree.
This is on The Huffington Post, dated 11:40 this morning.
Edited for brevity:
You can see Valerie Plame’s full face in the new Vanity Fair (July 2005 issue). My daughter just brought over her copy.
Page 70
“Spotlight on Tribeca”
She and Joseph Wilson are on the right side of the page, second from the bottom.