Cross-posted at Daily Kos
I had another informative, and this time amusing, email interchange with Juan Cole. It started out seriously enough with this email:
Subject: What does al Qaeda want?
To: “Cole, Juan” <jrcole@umich.edu>
Juan,
With apologies to Dr. Freud, that is my question. Why are we being attacked? Is it because they “hate our freedom”? This is what Mr. Bush would have us believe.
But apparently not only Mr. Bush. The mantra about the freedom-hating Muslims has penetrated so deeply that it was repeated just yesterday by the mayor of London:
“But I know you fear that you may fail in your long-term objective to destroy our free society and I can show you why you will fail.”
Please read the whole series after the flip…
The rest of my email to Prof. Cole:
Is this really the long-term objective of al qaeda, failing which they will continue to attack the west until the end of time? If it is, then our only response would seem either to show them our resolve, as the mayor recommends, or to curtail our freedoms and militarily attack arab countries, as Bush and Blair are doing. Either way the prognosis would appear to be dim.
But are Bush-Blair really going to war with the enemy they have, or rather with the enemy they would like to have? They are telling us that we must carry out a war for the ages, until every radical Muslim lies in the ground. Are they telling us this because it is indeed the case? Or is this a cunningly constructed straw enemy, an “Eastasia” for the 21st century that will allow Mr. Bush to remain a “war president”?
If the Bush freedom mantra is not the truth, or, at least, not the whole truth, then why are we being attacked? I would think that al qaeda may have made some pronouncements concerning their goals. Since I have heard that you have some knowledge of things middle eastern, perhaps you could shed some light into this rather dark corner of the public discourse.
Cheers!
Mark
What you dare to Dream, dare to Analyze
While awaiting his answer I surfed over to Salon. Lo and behold there was a front page article by Cole on this exact issue:
Credit for the horrific bombings of the London Underground and a double-decker bus on Thursday morning was immediately taken on a radical Muslim Web site by a “secret group” of Qaida al-Jihad in Europe. By Thursday afternoon, as the casualty toll rose above 40 dead and 700 wounded, British Foreign Minister Jack Straw was saying, “It has the hallmarks of an al-Qaida-related attack.” Although U.S. President George W. Bush maintains that al-Qaida strikes out at the industrialized democracies because of hatred for Western values, the statement said nothing of the sort. The attack, the terrorists proclaimed, was an act of sacred revenge for British “massacres” in “Afghanistan and Iraq,” and a punishment of the United Kingdom for its “Zionism” (i.e., support of Israel). If they really are responsible, who is this group and what do they want?
Silly me! So I wrote again to Prof Cole:
“Mark” <markinsanfran0@yahoo.com>
Subject: Your Salon article
To: jrcole@umich.edu
Very funny. So you anticipate my questions and publish an article in Salon (and on the front page, no less) in advance of my asking! We really need to talk about the true nature of spacetime, given your apparent prescient powers 🙂
Mark
What you dare to Dream, dare to Analyze
Oh well. But back to the question at hand: what does al Qaeda want? Not that we should just give it to them, but understanding both their motivations and the motivations of their supporters is crucial to an effective response to their violence – at least to those of us in the reality-based community.
In re an effective response, Prof. Cole states:
From the point of view of a serious counterinsurgency campaign against al-Qaida, Bush has made exactly the wrong decisions all along the line. He decided to “unleash” Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon rather than pressing for Israeli-Palestinian peace and an end to Israeli occupation of the territories it captured in 1967. Rather than extinguishing this most incendiary issue for Arabs and Muslims, he poured gasoline on it. His strategy in response to Sept. 11 was to fight the Afghanistan War on the cheap. By failing to commit American ground troops in Tora Bora, he allowed bin Laden and al-Zawahiri to escape. He reneged on promises to rebuild Afghanistan and prevent the reemergence of the Taliban and al-Qaida there, thus prolonging the U.S. and NATO military presence indefinitely. He then diverted most American military and reconstruction resources into an illegal war on Iraq. That war may have been doomed from the beginning, but Bush’s refusal to line up international support, and his administration’s criminal lack of planning for the postwar period, made failure inevitable.
Indeed. Check out the whole article, it’s well worth it.
But what about Cole’s answer to my initial email? Well he actually did answer, and his response makes clear his view of al Qaeda’s ultimate, as opposed to proximate, goals:
RE: What does al Qaeda want?
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 16:28:02 -0400
From: “Cole, Juan” <jrcole@umich.edu>
To: “Mark” <markinsanfran0@yahoo.com>
Basically Bin Laden et al. want to force the United States and Europe out of the Middle East diplomatically, economically, and politically; they want to take it over and make it a Taliban Caliphate; and then they want to use the vast resources of the Caliphate to subject Western Christians and Jews and make them al-Qaeda’s bitches, on the theory that turn-about is fair play.
In other words, they are dangerous crackpots, sort of like Aum Shinrikyo but with more street cred because Reagan built them up in the 1980s to fight the Soviets.
cheers Juan
It would seem that Bush is already al Qaeda’s bitch extraordinaire, now that bin Laden’s dream of a US invasion of a Muslim country has come to fruition.
Update [2005-7-8 22:21:53 by markinsanfran]:Thanks to Sybil for this direct quote from bin Ladin himself:
Before I begin, I say to you that security is an indispensable pillar of human life and that free men do not forfeit their security, contrary to Bush’s claim that we hate freedom.
If so, then let him explain to us why we don’t strike for example – Sweden? And we know that freedom-haters don’t possess defiant spirits like those of the 19 – may Allah have mercy on them.
No, we fight because we are free men who don’t sleep under oppression. We want to restore freedom to our nation, just as you lay waste to our nation. So shall we lay waste to yours.
No one except a dumb thief plays with the security of others and then makes himself believe he will be secure. Whereas thinking people, when disaster strikes, make it their priority to look for its causes, in order to prevent it happening again.
But I am amazed at you. Even though we are in the fourth year after the events of September 11th, Bush is still engaged in distortion, deception and hiding from you the real causes. And thus, the reasons are still there for a repeat of what occurred.
Osama Bin Laden
Nov, 1, 2004
Specifically do you think you could spare a little mojo? I’m low at the moment 🙂
Seriously, what do you think?
in his own words.
If so, then let him explain to us why we don’t strike for example – Sweden? And we know that freedom-haters don’t possess defiant spirits like those of the 19 – may Allah have mercy on them.
No, we fight because we are free men who don’t sleep under oppression. We want to restore freedom to our nation, just as you lay waste to our nation. So shall we lay waste to yours.
No one except a dumb thief plays with the security of others and then makes himself believe he will be secure. Whereas thinking people, when disaster strikes, make it their priority to look for its causes, in order to prevent it happening again.
But I am amazed at you. Even though we are in the fourth year after the events of September 11th, Bush is still engaged in distortion, deception and hiding from you the real causes. And thus, the reasons are still there for a repeat of what occurred.
Osama Bin Laden
Nov, 1, 2004
‘our nation’ must mean the world of Islam since bin Laden is multi-national.
Courtesy of ‘green917’
My Diary, “Meanwhile In Iraq”
Excellent! Thanks for the quote. Another smokescreen pierced.
Is this a real quote? Where did you find it?
you go.
I googled it but only found it on alternative websites. Apparently the translation that CNN used was a bit different.
Sybil, as she so graciously mentioned, got the quote from a comment I made earlier. I obtained it on aljazeera.net
I highly suggest reading the entire speech; it is both enlightening and frightening at the same time.
Of course it is real or I would not have posted it
AND provided the link where I found it.
I have included the quote in an update to the diary. Many thanks.
“No one except a dumb thief plays with the security of others and then makes himself believe he will be secure.”
that quote is missing from the CNN and that was what interested me. Also, the words “I wonder about you” to refer to Americans, is in the CNN but not in Sybil’s version.
here.
They translate your second quote as: “But I am amazed at you.”
Invading and occupying Iraq has become a trap for the US Military. They are faced with a position that is untenable and retreat for them is unthinkable. This benefits Osama bin Laden and Militant Islam. Bombing the Iraqi people will not find bin Laden nor defeat al Qaeda.
Image:
Osama sitting around playing chess while Bush is riding around on a bike, and falling off.
are, unfortunately, all too true. 2006 can’t come too soon for me (when we take the house and senate and run bike-boy out of town).
Actually, if you sane people gain control of the US, the
whole world benefits.
Good on you.
really answer the question. part of what they want is an islamic fundamentalist government for the entire middle east and much of asia and the implementation of sharia law. (burkhas for the women, cutting off hands of thieves, lots of executions{not so unlike texas})
a world goverment in the mold of the afghan taliban is what al queda wants, though there is no denying the intelligence shown in that bin laden quote, it doesn’t paint the whole picture, imo.
“We want to restore freedom to our nation”
Since bin Laden roams from country to county,
unwanted in his native Arabia, born of a Syrian
mother, he is multi-national. So when he says
‘our nation’ he means Militant Global Islam and as
you point out, with strict Shariah laws.
What is meant by Al Qaeda? Al Qaeda itself is a relatively small terrorist organization headed by bin Laden and pretty badly damaged by US and allied attacks in Afghanistan. Most of the recent attacks whether they are in Iraq, Africa or London are carried out by Al Qaeda affiliates or regional Al Qaedas. Al Qaeda has become like a loose franchise which other terrorist groups have picked up on. Let’s face it bin Laden is not going to leap out of his cave attached to his dialysis machine and generator to denounce claims of mayhem made in the name of Al Qaeda by other groupings.
So to try to answer the question of what does Al Qaeda want is not easy as what is now labelled “Al Qaeda” by Western governments consists of a diverse group of radical groupings who may share some core beliefs and have some agendas in common but also have quite seperate demands and agendas. They just fly a common flag of convenience for the present. Witness the problems between bin Laden and Zaqarwi in the past, but for the present they are conveniently allied.
.
US has difficulty in recruitment of their forces.
The Islamist movement from Europe, North Africa, Middle East to SE Asia have expanded a tenfold.
Between 60-90,000 extremists passed the Al Qaeda training facilities in Afghanistan. The training has continued in North Pakistan, Malaysia and Indonesia.
Keep believing the MSM and WH propaganda lines.
Read up on what the Israeli terror analysts are saying – CNNi had a special on today. Why are the reform movements in Iran and Russia being repressed in the last three years? Action – reaction.
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Th distinction I’m trying to make is the Al Qaeda core led by bin Laden is depleted. The expansion of terror groups is undisputable but they are not Al Qaeda itself. They just for now take the franchise. They are not directly under bin Laden. They have their own agendas and it is a very loose alliance. To look for the overall goal of Al Qaeda is wrong as each group has its own goal and to combat them the West needs to understand the relationship. The MSM and WH spout a line of Al Qaeda being a terrorist power led by bin Laden. Simplistic line accepted by so many.
bin Laden should file suit against the new upstarts for brand infringement 🙂
that the bombings in London have nothing to do with our current concepts of terrorism, and have nothing to do with Al Queda, here. Posted on this diary on Dailykos.
Asking this is like asking what is wanted by the rioter who smashes the window of the store he buys his own groceries in.
The problem boils down to poverty and hopelessness in the third world, much of which is also Islamic. Read about the situation in places like Egypt and Saudi Arabia where there are massive populations of unemployable young men and women who have absolutely no chance of getting themselves into a financially stable situation. And then look at their non-democratic governments, and the extreme income skew between the rich guys with their stables of Ferraris and the poor guys with absolutely nothing.
This is a situation that is ripe for trouble makers, and the fundamentalist “leaders” are taking advantage of it.
Historically, you can have peace either by arranging your economy so that everybody is middle class, income disparity is low, and everybody feels that they have a chance to get a reasonable lifestyle going, or, by massive repression. Saddam Hussein and King Fahd and “President” Mubarak are all cut from the same cloth.
.
Our thugs or their thugs?
Our Human Rights and Geneva Conventions – Abu Ghraib, Fallujah, Invasion of Iraq … or their abhorrent acts of terror.
our friends, allies and former allies – you can include Presidents Sharon, Musharraf, Karimov and Putin. History of failed US foreign policy since the fall of the Berlin wall.
By definition – We are the good guys! Ease of conscience.
Not In My Name!
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Quote from an AlterNet interview with Reza Aslan, the author of No god but God: The Origins, Evolution, and Future of Islam.
And like Prof. Cole, notes that GW has done absolutely everything bass-ackwards.
.
Al Qaeda – Osama Bin Laden – Taliban
CNN Report – The Hunt for Osama Bin Laden
¹ The Al Qaeda Training Manual found in Kabul.
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