[From the diaries by susanhu, with additions and edits.]
Oh my friends, this little tidbit from David Corn at The Huffington Report has this ol’ grandma more excited than she has been in a long time.
David says that Rove lied. I know we have to be careful here but Rove told the grand jury that he learned of Plame’s CIA position through Novak’s article on the 14th. But, but but….He told Cooper of Plame’s position on the 11th according to Cooper’s email and notes.
Can we get the handcuffs out yet? Can this be the beginning of the end for this evil little man?
Update [2005-7-10 10:57:40 by susanhu]: The Isikoff piece for the July 18 edition of Newsweek is out: “What Karl Rove Told Michael Isikoff“:
Last week, after Time turned over that e-mail, among other notes and e-mails, Cooper agreed to testify before a grand jury in the Valerie Plame case. Explaining that he had obtained last-minute “personal consent” from his source, Cooper was able to avoid a jail sentence for contempt of court. More below:
What David Corn has to say about the Isikoff piece:
[…………..]
Yet tonight I received this as-solid-as-it-gets tip: on Sunday Newsweek is posting a story that nails Rove. The newsmagazine has obtained documentary evidence that Rove was indeed a key source for Time magazine’s Matt Cooper and that Rove–prior to the publication of the Bob Novak column that first publicly disclosed Valerie Wilson/Plame as a CIA official — told Cooper that former Ambassador Joseph Wilson’s wife apparently worked at the CIA and was involved in Joseph Wilson’s now-controversial trip to Niger.
To be clear, this new evidence does not necessarily mean slammer-time for Rove. Under the relevant law, it’s only a crime for a government official to identify a covert intelligence official if the government official knows the intelligence officer is under cover, and this documentary evidence, I’m told, does not address this particular point. But this new evidence does show that Rove — despite his lawyers claim that Rove “did not tell any reporter that Valerie Plame worked for the CIA” — did reveal to Cooper in a deep-background conversation that Wilson’s wife was in the CIA. No wonder special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald pursued Cooper so fiercely. And Fitzgerald must have been delighted when Time magazine — over Cooper’s objection–surrendered Cooper’s emails and notes, which, according to a previous Newsweek posting by Michael Isikoff, named Rove as Cooper’s source. In court on Wednesday, Fitzgerald said that following his receipt of Cooper’s emails and notes “it is clear to us we need [Cooper’s] testimony perhaps more so than in the past.” This was a clue that Fitzgerald had scored big when he obtained the Cooper material.
This new evidence could place Rove in serious political, if not legal, jeopardy (or, at least it should). If what I am told is true, this is proof that the Bush White House was using any information it could gather on Joseph Wilson — even classified information related to national security — to pursue a vendetta against Wilson, a White House critic. Even if it turns out Rove did not break the law regarding the naming of intelligence officials, this new disclosure could prove Rove guilty of leaking a national security secret to a reporter for political ends. What would George W. Bush do about that? …
NOTE: There’s much more in the Newsweek piece by Isikoff and in the David Corn/Nation piece.
Your analyses and observations are welcome!
I thought for a while that the little Rovian frog was asleep this morning.
Here is a low-key summation of the facts:
http://talkleft.com/new_archives/011415.html
ALOHALEEZY scored BIG TIME with this! Woohoo!
Actually, I live in California now but I still rise before dawn…lol!
Sorry, the aloha threw me off.
I emailed Susan last night at 11:00 pm Pacific
time, the same time zone as you, with the scoop
that I got from TalkingPointsMemo. This morning
the story was all over the liberal blogs but
you were the only one here who was on top of it.
Good on you.
I haven’t even read most of my e-mail this morning! I haven’t seen yours yet! I just read one from BooMan!
Where’s my secretary when I need her?! And my maid is nowhere to be found so I had to make my own breakfast and feed the cats and make copious quantities of coffee. MAKES NOTE to self: CHECK E-MAIL FIRST in the morning. Duh.
For a moment, I thought you had blocked me as spam. 😉
Note to Susan’s self:
You have the right to a good night’s sleep.
Thanks so much Sybil. I just new when I read it that it was of great importance, scanned the diaries and found nothing. God I love blogs. Now how can we help to keep this out front?
Thanks Susan and for your help which is immeasurable.
You found the key analytical piece that gives this Isikoff story a lot more meaning. THANK YOU!
And I bet the frog just loves you for mentioning him.
He says through his lawyer, he did not “name” Wilson’s
wife and that he did not know her name.
Except to assume that it was Mrs. Wilson. Valerie Plame
Wilson did not use her maiden name and was known as
Valerie Wilson.
Rove called her ‘Wilson’s wife’ so he is right when he
says he did not ‘name’ her.
We are about to watch the most expert weasel in the US
weasel out of this. [no offense to innocent animals.]
It will be extremely interesting to watch the spin the next few days. How rapidly will they respond to this?
Also, when did Novak show what he wrote to the WH?
I read speculation over at TalkingPointsMemo, that Judith
Miller is the source and she got it from John Bolton.
I agreed with that speculation. The White House
did not leak to reporters, rather, a reporter, Miller
leaked to them.
Fitzgerald’s desired source is Judith Miller and his
target is John Bolton. Just a thought.
Rove must be grateful that the hurricane news is drowning
out his story.
Interesting times we live in.
I happen to feel you are right on on this one!!!!!!!!!!!! good catch….now lets fry it up right away.
Hmmm.
Someone I know well wrote “Was Judith Miller a Source?” on July 3, 2005.
Last Sunday, right? Thanks for that good article.
And suppose Judith Miller got her information from
John Bolton.
I’m annoyed with the sanctification of St. Judith as
champion of freedom of the press. Not that I think
she should be in jail. That is so punative and Republican.
How about a suspended sentence or house arrest?
Yeah … and I’m wondering what Valerie Plame knows about Bolton and Judith Miller. She has to know plenty.
Would love to see Joseph Wilson’s ear to ear grin
right now. This was a long time comin’.
Could we really nail both Bolton and Rove with one thunderbolt? “To dream the impossible dream…”
If Bolton’s involved, they’ll leave him flapping in the breeze, and cover Rove’s butt by parsing the grammar ever-so-finely. As noted below, it would explain why there wasn’t a recess appointment for Bolton.
I voted “no” in the poll. They (the ruling junta) won’t allow Rove to go down – he’s too close to the levers of power (the marionette strings of power?).
THAT is when we start getting into the definition of what “is” is.
Novak’s column was published on the 14th but apparently written on the 11th. Makes sense, given need to edit, typeset, print, distribute.
So, when did the thing move on the wires? On the 11th, but what time? Or did Novak show his copy to the WH even before that? He’s such a slimy piece of excrement, I could believe he would clear it with something like Rove.
If that column was available anywhere before the time that Cooper says Rove told him that, Fitzgerald is going to have even more trouble, I think. And given that Rove released Cooper from confidentiality in order to testify, I imagine he thinks he’s home free.
On the other hand, everything I’ve read about Fitz in recent months makes me think he’s already figured that out and knows the answers.
One thing to consider is that Novak is such a slimeball and in the pocket of the sdministration. So, would he lie for Rove as to when HIS story came into the WH’s hands or when he actually wrote it? I don’t know, just speculating.
The same folks who spent endless amounts of time and taxpayer money obsessing over Clinton’s use of language regarding things like blowjobs and marijuana are now going to be forced to make some tough decisions about defending Rove if this blows up.
Bloggers are going to have a field day over this.
I’ve read the Newsweek article a couple of times and I’m still not sure that it contains anything damaging to Rove. Take this excerpt, for example:
So, was Rove just spreading the rumour that Wilson/Plame was the one who pushed for Joe Wilson’s trip to Niger or did he actually out her?
Am I missing something? I’m still working on my first cup of tea here…
Rove has already said (testified?) that he knew about Plame from Noval’s column on the 14th, while Cooper says he found out about Plame from Rove 3 days earlier, on the 11th…
Did Rove say that he only knew that Plame was an undercover operative from Novak’s column? What I quote above doesn’t make it clear that he knew her status – or does it? I’m asking…
I’ve been reading a lot of stuff this morning and can’t figure out where I thought I saw the specifics, but I remember it that way. If I find the link, I’ll post it.
I just have a really bad memory. 🙂
This is the lead/lede.
This email is dated 3 days before Novak’s story came out.
McLellan denied Rove’s involvement categorically. Rove
outed ‘Wilson’s wife’ but never used her name, that’s
how he is weaseling out of this. Who told him? I think
it was Judith Miller.
I’m trying to be cautious about this because, although I’ve love to see Rove’s ass frog-marched out of DC, I’m just not sure that these revelations will do it.
Novak said he got his information from 2 senior administration officials. It could be that Rove was just out there spreading rumours while the other official was doing the outing. We don’t know yet.
I don’t know that it matters that Scotty denied what Rove did because he can claim he just didn’t know – not that I trust that automaton any farther than I could throw him.
Since it was announced after Miller was sentenced of contempt that she had not received a similar waiver from her source(s) as Cooper had on that morning, it could very well be that there is another official involved that we don’t know about.
go here:
http://talkleft.com/new_archives/011415.html
Follow the links! How often have I complained about people not following links? Oops. Mea culpa.
Great backhround there.
Okay, so it’s now clear that Libby and Rove were, most likely, the 2 senior admin officials who talked to Novak and Cooper and that Scotty parsed his words very carefully. Thanks.
I think you are right on on this one, and it definately spells it out.
I want to think you are. I think from what has already been said early on about who authorized this this trip and it was not her. So something is rotten in Denmark if you ask me. I remember Wilson saying this on his own that his wife had nothing to do with his ben sent there except to the point that she said that Joe was a good man for the job for he knew the person in/of contact. That that is all she had to do or say in the matter. Al in ref to the trip he made to Niger. It has come out that Cheney himself and his office is the one who authorized the trip of Wilson.
Can they really spin this? Isn’t there too much “evidence” to refute what they may say? Rove outright lied when he said to the grand jury he “never” spoke to any reporters about Plame.
I read somewhere today that it would be more difficult to nail Rove on outing Plame than for lying to the grand jury (=obstruction of justice). And Frank Rich noted:
But my money is on a presidential pardon.
use of language in Rove’s purported conversations and (presumed) grand jury testimony, the prosecutor is going to have to come up with evidence as to who gave Novak Plame’s name.
If Novak has provided info to Fitzgerald and the GJ, and if Cooper does, if both these guys name the same sources but differ radically as to what they were told, then fitz. may be able to deduce something useful. But if Novak refuses to say who gave him Plame’s name, unless Cooper or Miller can name someone for this, I don’t see how Fitz. has a case for the larger crime of exposing a covert agent.
I voted “no” in the “Rove goes to jail poll.” It’s not because I wouldn’t love to see him do the perp walk. That video would go right up there with my clip of Edgar Martinez beating the Yankees in the 1995 American League Division Series as one of my favorite moments to revisit.
Last week when I saw the story here about the possibility of Rove being the leak, though, the first thought that came into my head was: He’s never going to go to jail. He’ll never even see the inside of a holding cell. The minute the U.S. Marshals are dispatched to fetch him, I think he will get a phone call with a short coded message, or maybe just a simple “They’re on their way” or “You know what to do.” Then he will take his keys out of his pocket, unlock the top left drawer of his desk, and pull out a revolver with a single bullet in the barrel.
The Marshals will be available to help escort whatever’s left out of the building.
I wish to emphasize that this is NOT what I am hoping for, and if I am right I will take no pleasure in being right. Rove just strikes me as the kind of person who would rather take the coward’s way out than risk time in jail.
I voted no as well because Rove will have the best defense lawyers money can buy. He’ll get away with this unless there’s smoking gun evidence beyond what we’ve seen so far.
As much as it pains me Omir, I tend to agree that he will never see the inside of a jail cell one way or another. One can hope though. Maybe if he got caught with sperm on his suit?
I think it takes a certain sense of honor to off yourself in order to avoid scandal or punishment. Rove is slime through and through. His huge success as a professional grade-school bully will make him unable to conceive of getting seriously busted.
But I voted No anyhow. If serious crime in high places resulted in slammer time, Bush, Cheney, Rice, Powell, Rumsfeld and a lot more would have iron bars spoiling their view right not.
I don’t much care whether Rove goes to jail or not. What’ important is is role as Bush’s downfall.
I voted “NO” too, but I believe it’s because I’m totally conditioned to them getting away with everything, I can’t even imagine another outcome. Favorite basball moment: Bucky Dent (uh-oh, no baseball wars please:)
BTW – Printed out you wonderful Dear George diary to keep
I understand that’s a popular one in some circles. 🙂
Well, I have to go with my man Edgar. That double off of Jack McDowell capped a run that saved baseball in Seattle. Some days I wonder if maybe we wouldn’t have been better off if the Mariners had gone to Florida the way they might have in 1995, but then we wouldn’t have had that fantastic 2001 season (and it’s been nice seeing them win a few this week).
As for Rove and Repubcorp™, that’s certainly true. If Reagan was the Teflon President, this seems to be the Teflon Administration. I keep hoping something will stick.
Oh, and I’m glad you liked Tell Me Again, George.
From Talking Points Memo Café
NB Those meetings of Cheney with the CIA, Cheney
actually went down to the CIA offices and this is a
precedent. Never in US history has a vice-president
done this. It’s a great line of inquiry for those
so inclined.
and did Cheney not do this like 10 times? Correct me if I am wrong.
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!!!!!!!!!!! and paid for by your government at hand.
This new evidence could place Rove in serious political, if not legal, jeopardy (or, at least it should). If what I am told is true, this is proof that the Bush White House was using any information it could gather on Joseph Wilson — even classified information related to national security — to pursue a vendetta against Wilson, a White House critic. Even if it turns out Rove did not break the law regarding the naming of intelligence officials, this new disclosure could prove Rove guilty of leaking a national security secret to a reporter for political ends. What would George W. Bush do about that? …
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think this last paragraph just about says it all, IMO. There, however, is a few bones in it too that makes me wonder about things and how it is produced.
Such as [even if rove did not break the law]!!!! What is this all about? I thought it was about breaking the law. I thought it was about the 1982 law that it was all about. I want to be on that GJ jury!!!!!!!! Oh Please let me …..:o)
From Wiki:
According to Novak, administration sources claimed that it had been at Plame’s suggestion that the CIA sent her husband to Niger in 2002 to investigate the Yellowcake Forgery, documents implying that Iraq had attempted to illegally purchase uranium from that country.
This matches Cooper’s e-mails, so it can safely be said that Rove was one of Novak’s sources. The only difference is that the term “Agency operative” does not appear in Cooper’s e-mails.
After providing a description of how outing an agnet is against the law, the Wiki article goes on to say this:
The Wiki article goes on to describe how Novak tried to cover his ass.
The following appeared in Cooper’s article:
“some government officials” = Rove and who else?
and:
Were those reporters subpeonaed?
It’s a very lengthy article but it looks like we certainly won’t know the whole story until the grand jury investigation is done.
“some government officials” = Rove and who else?
As sybil pointed out, Talking Left reminds us that Libby was also a Cooper source. Just thought I’d add that to answer my own question.
…and to this I reply, the name of bolton and miller. Have you wondered why this WH did not make a recess appointment of bolton? Have you queried the request from the democratic senators as to the info they wanted and was not given by the WH? Can you put a puzzle together? Who was supposed to be head of the nonperliferation of wmds in this administration….none other than bolton himself! Who was and is responsible for the cholibi (sp) bru ha ha,,,,,none other than miller herself.
Yes, yes, yes on Bolton/Miller. Oh to at least be a fly on the wall in the gj hearings.
oh wouldn’t you tho!!!!!!!!!!!! :o) I probably would fly crap all over the place toooooooo..yak….
I’ve always speculated that Bolton has something to do with this because, along with Rove, he is master at vendettas.
As for Miller, as much as I dislike her, she could simply be honouring her journalistic principles by not revealing her sources or she wants to keep a lid on her sources for her future career as a WH shill. I’m not sure. I do find it very curious that it was revealed that she was not given a waiver, as Cooper was, to reveal her source(s). That implies someone else was involved. Who knows who that was? Cheney? Bolton?
is she is going to jail to protect herself?
Had a wild idea at breakfast. What if, all the hundreds
of people that Rove has double/triple crossed, smeared,
and slimed lose their fear of him all at once. There
will be an army of people coming forward with stories.
hmmm… it could get ugly.
A bit Agatha Christie-esque, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Miller was the orginal source.
What do you suppose that Valerie Plame knows about John Bolton’s nonproliferation work?
(Or has someone covered that, and I’ve just missed it? Plame was a non-proliferation specialist in the CIA.)
……….and there you have it, my children…yup, Susan…you are on target
Remember a Grand Jury indictment is the beginning of the process. This one will be around for a long, long time. No one will be “frog-marched”. At that level I would expect (maybe) a resignation or two (to devote full-time to a defense), but more likely the parties will stay in place once the right-wing noise machine gets geared up.
No one has been indicted, much less convicted. Let the legal process run.
Bush could actually score political points here by punting Rove (or whoever), thus claiming he’s fighting corruption in his administration. We may think this will work to the left’s advantage, but that is yet to be seen, as you indicate.