I’ve tried to make it clear that diaries about Daily Kos make me uncomfortable. I frequently have to spend considerable time dealing with emails from outraged Kossacks, who blame me for not doing more to stop them.
My answer is always the same: ‘I’m not going to ban free speech that doesn’t violate the rules of the site.’
And I’m not going to make criticism of Daily Kos against the rules.
Here is a soft-rule: If you have a problem with Markos, Armando, Plutonium Page, Hunter, or any other front-page poster from Daily Kos, please don’t post disparaging remarks about them, or make unflattering speculations about their motivations and/or character UNLESS you are willing to cross-post them at Daily Kos.
Critiquing Daily Kos is an occassionally valid topic. But this site is not a safe haven to make personal attacks against dKos front-pagers, where they cannot defend themselves.
If I think Armando is being a prick, I send him an email, or I keep my mouth shut. I might even post a diary at Daily Kos about it. But I would never write it here alone.
I wrote a diary critiquing Markos over election fraud. I wrote a diary defending him over the pie-war. But I wrote them THERE.
There is a big difference between arguing over policy, and arguing over character.
Daily Kos is a valid subject for discussion. The posts of the front-pagers are a valid subject for discussion. Even the character of the front-pagers is a valid subject of discussion. But this last one is not welcome here UNLESS the diary is cross-posted.
Thank you.
You’re da best, Boo!
(and no worries, Sven and Tracy, you’re still da best too, see in my world ‘best” doesn’t imply singularity! Aw, hell, you’re all da best! And, no, I’m not cross-posting!!)
Oh, and BooMan, about the angry emails, can’t you just ask them to stop sending them? I thought they were your friends?
I get emails from people and handles I don’t even know. My friends, I can handle. I don’t need the hassle of punks sticking up for other people and fighting their battles for them.
them scalped BooMan, I am only two generations removed from the savage red man of my ancestors. You the pillage and plunder of the Noble redman. lol
you know the pillage and plunder,
damn I need to proof read before I post. lmao
Pillage and plunder. I thought us vikings had lead in that department 😉
well it was the English who first used scalping (for bounty) that became associated with the Native populations. So maybe those Viking ancestors who came over in the 8 and 9 th centuries taught my ancestors how to pillage and plunder.
And without the rape/pillaging singlemindedness of Finnish Hakapelita mercenaries in the 30 years, there would be few blond/e/s in present day Germany
30 years WAR, of course – 1618-1648
Or homo sapiens in Finland.
Naah – I was just brought in to spice up the bloodlines of a few dynastical Finland-svensk families, before they suffered genetic collapse. At least they understand the concept of biodiversity.
Given the prevalence of rape in today’s “modern world,” can we assume that prehistoric women were not raped, especially in war and conflict?
Junk mail everyone that’s not in your inbox. The quickly scan your junk mail folder for pleasantness and ignore the rest. A bit cumbersome but it’ll save you unnecessary headaches.
Yo Boo…
You talkin’ to me?
🙂
I’ve never been a fan of talking about someone behind their backs — and posting disparaging remarks about someone here is probably the blogosphere equivalent of that. If you have a beef with someone, best to have it out where they hang out, and keep the innocent bystanders out as much as possible.
Just my $0.02…
Right on, Booman. We’ve all chewed this cabbage before. I, for one, have no desire to do it again.
I would venture to say that the vast majority of us (refugees) are here because we despised in-fighting, name-calling, back-biting and general prickiness.
By rehashing the same crap, we run the risk of turning BMT into the very thing we ran away from in the first place.
I agree.
We should concentrate on what we want to be instead of what we don’t want to be. Long ago I learned the lesson that if you spend all your time trying to avoid becoming something, since it’s all you think about, it’s all you can become.
I agree with Booman that if people have complaints about Kos or anyone else “over there,” they are best addressed over there.
I also think that if people leave one community and are joining another, its best to leave your unwanted baggage behind.
I will add that frankly, I am not interested in who said what to whom, or about whom, over at the Daily Kos. I do not participate in diaries on that subject.
That said, I genuinely hope that those who had bad experiences “over there,” will have better ones here.
Thank you.
I certainly was not calling for not talking about Daily Kos at all, nor for you editing the content here. I realize there is a connection between the sites because that is where most of us were/are. I agree that all subjects should be open and many times posts from Kos can illustrate a point. Nor was I trying to speak for you as I realized it may have looked. I just want to see this site remain the Frog Pond.
You have done a fantastic job here in allowing the community to regulate itself (with gentle nudges such as this diary) – as I have said in comments and emails. I could pull the diary, but there were some good comments.
Take care.
Just update and ask to be unrecommended.
As for the Frog Pond remaining the same: Nothing living is static; BoomanTribune is growing and changes will come. I hope we maintain the openness and respectfulness that’s been built up here…
No don’t delete diary, everyone gets upset when that happens, just let the diary take it’s course, I would say…
And Booman you know what I think, dontya…..about the site and all!!!!! And you know that I think you are pretty ‘cute’ as well as pretty darn smart and remember in the beginning I thought you must be about 60 with all of your wisdom. Time to post your pics again.
Growing pains, aaaaah!!!!!!!
If you look beyond the big names, there’s still some wonderful writing and information to be found over there — and in many places on the Net.
I think one benefit to me of the assorted brouhahas is that they’ve gotten me to go beyond my comfort zone, to click on links I would have ignored and get “the rest of the story”, as Paul Harvey would say. (Tabbed browsing in Safari and Firefox hasn’t hurt either.)
If I may, I’d like to recommend a couple of writings:
ttagaris’ diary (which got promoted to the front page) and Bill in Portland Maine’s intro to Cheers and Jeers today (a very pointed rant).
Thanks for the bandwidth…
While were recommending excellent (off site) writing… I’d like to recommend reading this diary:
Why the conservative South hates Democrats: Get the government off our backs! . Some really great points there… I think all lefty non-Southerners (and probably some Southerners too) should read it. Wish he/she would post it over here too.
Also the comments, especially Tarheel something’s… great stuff.
I think that some comments don’t necessarily need to be made public. Some opinions don’t need to be shared if they are not constructive. There are certain users I find rude and annoying, but I just ignore them..
your desire to keep the Frog Pond an open discussion forum in the highest regard for free speech, gives me great joy. I agree wholeheartedly with your point, if someon is going to critique someone from another blog, they need to cross post at that blog, so they can read and post to what was written about them.
Frog Pond is my sanctuary, my eden, my home on the Internet where I can put to words those things that are within me, that I feel the need to push forward.
I fear for my country, my fellow Americans and the citizens of the world, because of the current regime and its criminal behavior. The Frog Pond, Dkos and other progressive sites are going to have to make the difference, if we are going to achieve any kind of change in the mid term elections or the 2008 elections.
Thanks for being a voice of reason in a sometimes tempest of storming seas.
Booman you are a gentleman and a scholar. May we all move forward with your words in mind. Thanks for making the Frog Pond the fabulous place that it is.
I frequently have to spend considerable time dealing with emails from outraged Kossacks, who blame me for not doing more to stop them.
That’s disturbing. I mean, that’s really disturbing.
If the management at dKos wants to censor their own users, that’s 100% their call, and while I might think it’s stupid, I support their right to do so. But that’s only because anyone who doesn’t like the way Markos and Co. run their show can go elsewhere.
To suppress and purge dissent on one blog and then send out emails to other blogs trying to quash dissent among people who already voted with their feet is… un-American. And that’s the politest term I can think of for it. It’s outrageous.
I’m pretty much over the late unpleasantness at dKos — the “tinfoil hat” purge was more interesting than offensive to me as an infrequent visitor to that site — but hearing crap like this makes me want to register a suitable obnoxious domain name and set up a blog whose sole purpose is to maintain a running meta-discussion about DailyKos. (By which I mean hearing that Booman gets these emails, not that he’s telling us about them.)
I’ll probably cool down before it gets that far, and paranoid-thin-skinned-wannabe-pundits.com is probably too long for a domain name, but sheesh… you’d think the grand poobahs at dKos would be blissfully unconcerned about what individual users say at a site that they go out of their way to say is utterly insignificant by comparison.
grand poobahs are not really the problem. I have heard some mutterings about personal attacks. That’s understandable.
But I get regular users sending me hate-mail.
Do they have return addresses? I would be happy to craft a response if you would like to forward it to them. hate-mail is not acceptable.
Ah well, then never mind — fanboy-minions-of-paranoid-thin-skinned-wannabe-pundits.com is definitely too long for a domain name. 😉
😉
I’m still not grokking this idea.
When some of us migrated over here because of the “pie fight” at DKos, some so-called “Kossacks” took it upon themselves to post diaries here, excoriating us for tucking our tails and running and telling us to go back to DKos.
Now they’re trying to tell Booman how to run HIS site? The only suitable response to that is “Go Cheney yourself, mate.”
By the by, it is your site, but I don’t agree with the decision that a diary criticising a blogger from DailyKos needs to be cross-posted there. Here’s my thinking:
First, the diary is put into the public domain, and as such, the person posting the diary becomes subject to criticism for his/her views–in any forum.
Second, if that person wants to “defend” his/her views, then he/she can come over here and register–but Armando has cancelled his membership here because he’s disgusted with the BooTrib apostates. Talk about tucking your tail and running.
Third, if you are going to put your views into public view, you had better be prepared for criticism–particularly if you use “fuck” as every third word (as Armando is wont to do). If you can’t stand the heat, don’t turn on the stove.
Fourth, some of us are not welcome at DKos–I’m not banned there, but I tried posting over there after the pie fight and rather than respond to my comments, all I got were personal snarks in the vein of “Come skulking back here, have you?” etc. Hadn’t heard that tactic used on anybody since 7th grade, but it’s quite common at DKos. I’m not interested in writing any diaries criticising DKos–they have their patch and are welcome to it–but neither am I going to cross-post anything and contribute free content to a site whose proprietor is an out-and-out misogynist (amongst other things). And does that “cross posting” rule apply if someone with full posting privileges at BooTrib gets those privileges yanked at DKos? In other words, if Mr. Moulitsa withdraws my credentials to post at his site, he is then dictating what I can and cannot post at BooTrib–for example, I couldn’t post a diary protesting the reasons behind my banishment from DKos here at BooTrib because that diary couldn’t be cross-posted! Quite the logical impasse, as you can see.
That’s my tuppence.
Rigorous Intuition is already discussing KOS and we’re all welcome to participate. http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/07/trouble-with-normal.html
i’m quite angry about some of these snipes at dKos, I just don’t say anything. Now, I’m saying… post it there.
You have to realize that we are not really anonymous. If we go for a job interview, it is a simple matter for the employer to look up what is being said about our character on the internet.
No posting, and talking shit about Front-pagers here, if it is not cross-posted. Period. I won’t tolerate it.
Seems like that persons who are writing you hate mail are the ones who should be posting in PUBLIC.
I’d be very interested in reading what they have to say that they can’t say it in an open forum.
Bulling and badgering you into submission will only embolden more hate mail.
Instead of telling posters here to calm down their posts you should do a “Margaret Cho” and post the hate mail publically WITH their names…
It was funny to see how all of a sudden the haters came to their senses when outed!!!
Posters here are already outing themselves… you need to pull the email haters into the spotlight.
Just my .002 cents (that darn inflation)
Exactly. It’s been a while since I visited Margaret Cho’s blog, but I do recall that her hate mail is entertaining in its stupidity – if folks are being that nasty, expose them for the world to see. Exposing the hate mailers also is something of a public service – personally, I’d rather know who I’m dealing with at Kos, here, where-ever — especially if there is the potential that I might cross them (if for no other reason than to adjust my email filters accordingly).
Disagreements are often disagreeable, but I don’t understand the email stuff. Keep it on-line, if it has to exist at all.
Then again, what do I know? I consider myself a guest, and I expect to behave accordingly. I’m often ignored, but always well-trated.
From an outsider’s perspective, one of the many attractions for the Frog Pond as stated by its denizens was the room for, well, quieter voices, for lack of a better term.
If it’s all hostility all the time, that’ll be lost. And that would be a shame.
If I understood it correctly, the emails Booman is refering to are coming from Kossacks asking him to do something about what they percieve as chronic Kos bashing at this site. I don’t think they need to be published, just ignored. Booman certainly doesn’t need any advice on how to run his blog. He’s doing an excellent job already.
I agree with you regarding the attractions to the frog pond, but the last statement almost implies that there is a possibility that there could be “all hostility, all the time”, or that somehow this site is headed that way. Not even close. In the short time I have been here, I’ve seen nearly zero hostility, and the number of diaries and comments regarding dkos are extremely low. It’s just that some of them have been a little much, so maybe that makes it seem as if there is more than there actually is.
Respectfully
It was a moment of temper of a sort, but I wonder how many emails he got about my Kos sucker remark having to do with high fiving grand slammers? OOOOPSY DUPESY!
BooWoman after all of us whining crying leaving piewar people. I hereby promise to not call them Kosmunists without crossposting it!
Here’s my question:
The emailers are angry about public criticism of DKos…so why don’t they come over here and defend against it, instead of sending angry demands to Booman?
Why are they afraid to publicly defend DailyKos?
I say, if you want a fight, have it out in the open.
Just felt the need to jump in after your last comment. I fully understand your sentiments, and in 99% of conflict situations I’d agree with you. But in this case, the absolute last thing I want is “a fight” over here about the subject at hand. I think that would just feed into the “anti-Kos” b.s. that’s been floating around and would cause great disharmony. (And would likely be counterproductive to your stated needs)
Under the circumstances, I think the situation is being handled quite well. (Not that I have any voice in the matter or anything. . .I’m just sayin’ :^)
Have yourself a wonderful evening!
I wonder if it’s more anger at being hassled via email about a “problem” that’s more imaginary than real. I know if my inbox were being inundated with hate mail I’d be pretty edgy too. I still can’t help but think that a more appropriate target of that anger is those who have the nerve to send hate mail in the first place.
As I’ve said before, I think the so-called kos-bashing is little more than a tempest in a teapot – I rarely see that going on here. To kos regulars who are bound and determined to find a problem that doesn’t exist, my friendly suggest would be for them to get a grip. Seriously.
Mi dos centavos.
Booman wrote: If we go for a job interview, it is a simple matter for the employer to look up what is being said about our character on the internet.
Booman–A job interview?
I’m sorry, but the relevance of that comment escapes me. I know Armando, for example, only as “Armando”–is he going to put his DKos user name on his c.v.? I certainly don’t put “Shadowthief” on MY c.v.. Makes me sound like a comic book archvillain (or a superhero, take your pick). I might understand your point if the criticisms were specifically aimed at “Bob Smith, who lives at 100 Maple Lane in Youngstown Ohio” so that a person could be specifically identified, but that is not the case here.
I think this whole thing has gotten far too complicated. Why not just change the rule to “no personal criticisms of Kossacks–no exceptions” but criticism of ideas are allowed?
Example of personal criticism: Armando is a hot-tempered so-and-so and verbally abuses people. Not allowed under any circumstances, the diary will be deleted and the diarist warned that future infractions will result in a suspension of privileges, perhaps a ban if things go too far.
Example of idea criticism: Armando said that we should endorse Attorney General Gonzales for the Supreme Court to replace O’Connor because he’s the best we can hope for, and I think that’s wrong because (fill in the blank here).
I see no reason why this second one needs to be cross-posted at DKos. I am a realist and understand the need to retain good relations with DKos. The desirable situation is for the two sites to be complementary rather than competitive.
I’m not banning either example, actually.
I’m banning the first if it is:
a) a diary
b) not cross-posted
That’s it. It’s not that complicated. I obviously don’t expect comments to be cross-posted.
As for the other point, if you google Armando’s real name, the first thing that will come up is Daily Kos. And then other sites, where his name is mentioned.
If you google my name, the first thing that will come up is my name, next to BooMan.
My name is Martin Longman. Try it.
If my name comes up next to: Martin Longman is a giant prick, who only cares about money…
That is not going to be helpful in me getting a job. Do you not understand this?
So, number one: realize that we all take risks in being in the public sphere where people talk about us.
And, number two: that what you write can have consequences for us, but what we write about you has no consequences for you.
The reason I want cross-posting is to give the person in question an opportunity to defend themselves, and to give them a fair opportunity to become aware of the attack, and for them to be aware that they are being discussed here too.
“Martin Longman is a giant prick, who only cares about money…”
I’m sorry, but I couldn’t help but stop in my tracks for a brief chuckle. You know darn well that some evil bastard out there is likely to start a google bomb now.
Forget I said that, and have yourself a fabulous evening!
I’d much rather it read: “Martin Longman has a giant prick and a lot of money”.
But what can you do?
you just caused a minor scene in my office because of my outburst of laughing. Woo…
Now, try to explain why you were laughing to your co-workers…
and adjust your crotch alot 🙂
Well, all questions of your character (and the size of your manhood) aside, I doubt that it’s legal for employers to rely upon what someone posts on the Internet in determining whether or not someone gets a job.
If what you are saying is true, Booman, and my words “Armando is a donkey’s arse” has the potential to defame him and harm his prospects for future employment, then those words are actionable. In which case they ought to be banned outright.
If the words are not legally actionable, then the whole “Armando will die in the poorhouse because someoneone called him a name on the Internet” theory falls apart.
Not only that, but I find your example impractical (not to say ridiculous)–do employers really say to themselves, well, I have here Applicant Armando:
Well, I’m NOT going to hire him. Google’s never wrong!
Oh, please. I wouldn’t want to work for someone who was such a colossal fool. If that’s how applicants are screened, then why bother printing out your c.v.? Just tell your employer to “Google” your name and give you a ring back in a day or three.
One question: If I begin attaching my real name to my posts, thus associating them with Shadowthief, will I then invoke the rule that no one can criticise me because it might harm my standing with my present employer or with future employers?
(My real name, of course, is Tony Blair.)
you can’t accept my explanation.
It is common practice for employers to google prospective employees. I’ve done it myself when I had doubts about a resume.
I’ve given up my privacy to be a blog-host, and I have accept that googling my name will lead instantly to my writings, and to what everyone in the blogosphere thinks about them.
At the same time, I would not appreciate it if my name was being regularly defamed somewhere, and I didn’t know about it.
I am extending the same courtesy to others that I expect for myself. If some right-winger wants to defame me, or call me horrible names, well, they are not my friends. I don’t expect any courtesy from them.
I wasn’t aware that employers routinely Google their applicants’ names. It seems rather a dodgy practise to me, which is probably why I’m not a titan of industry. One can “Google bomb”, as you well know, and thereby skew the results. Couldn’t an applicant also skew these results by “Google bombing” his name so that it appears favourably? There’s so much rubbish on the Internet that it seems unwise to rely upon it as opposed to, say, checking personal and professional credentials, but the workings of the business mind are mysterious to me.
I take you to be a man of your word, so if Googling applicants’ names is indeed standard practise in the United States, I would strongly advise that you not allow any personal criticism of anyone–Kossack front-pager or not–on this site. It sounds as if you are setting yourself up for a nasty lawsuit in that case, as someone may claim an action for defamation.
As I understand American law–which is much more liberal than English law–publication of a defamatory statement is libel. Of course, there are generally several “privileges” that can get a defamation case dismissed without proceeding to trial. These include the allegedly defamatory statement being one of opinion rather than fact; or being “fair comment and criticism”, as it is important to society that everyone be able to comment on matters of public interest. Nevertheless, the costs of successfully defending a single libel lawsuit, let alone multiple lawsuits, would be enough to bankrupt Booman Tribune–something no one wants to see. If you honestly think someone’s reputation is being unfairly impugned, then I think it is wise from a legal standpoint to remove the defaming diary or comments from this website, since you would be held liable as publisher for those words (as well as the original author).
I have to worry about being sued for libel, although I do have concerns about other issues.
The point here is that I don’t want people to use this site to publish articles (not comments) about friends of mine that are hostile in nature, and that they are not aware of. Sure, they look at this site, but they can’t be expected to follow every diary that is published.
Notice, you are free to write a diary that accuses Kos of being a mole for the Republicans if you want. But you have to publish it over there, too.
It’s not that big of a restriction. I’m just asking for people to have the common courtesy to not use my site as a safe haven to make personal attacks about people I like. I will tolerate criticism of them, and I am critical of them sometimes too. Just cross-post it, or refrain from writing diaries about them.
And this is my last comment in this thread.
I’m pretty much over the late unpleasantness at dKos — the “tinfoil hat” purge was more interesting than offensive to me as an infrequent visitor to that site — but hearing crap like this makes me want to register a suitable obnoxious domain name and set up a blog whose sole purpose is to maintain a running meta-discussion about DailyKos. (By which I mean hearing that Booman gets these emails, not that he’s telling us about them.)
My take is that the unpleasantness at dkos isn’t going to stop. Lots of people who post there or used to post there receive email such as Booman describes. This has been discussed in the meta threads over there lately.
A running meta discussion about dkos would be quite useful I think. I am horrified by what has happened over there and I speak as someone who participated on that blog since it’s start-up. I’ve a nuanced and complex view of what has happened there and there is no place to discuss it without exacerbating the problems here (for booman and what is a civil and interesting blog) or over on dkos (without being subjected to verbal abuse by the very people who are part of the problem. Such a domain name would not have to be obnoxious but it might be a useful exercise. I would hate for successful political blogs to have a 3 year lifespan before being co-opted by folks who regard experiments in participatory democracy as an opportunity to build an army of ditto heads with deep pockets.
being co-opted by folks who regard experiments in participatory democracy as an opportunity to build an army of ditto heads with deep pockets.
For beautifully and eloquently stating what I haven’t heretofore found the words to express, I’ll promise to seriously consider the idea of setting up a metablog if I can figure out a way to do it that isn’t just a massive venting of spleen.
I think you are a class act.
Man oh man, am I lost this afternoon. I commented this am and went off to work then cam home to find out this whole mess has occurred.
What a shame this has taken on its own life. Booman, I do not think you have done anything bad or anything that requires any “prick commando action”. I would hope to think that as we are all adults here we can work on any problem and come to a solution that is satisfactory for everyone in concern.
IMHO, if someone has been hurt over at kos’s site, then they do need to get it out and get rid of the anxiety that it causes that one person. But they need to stay away from the stressor there and cool off while doing that. [I did that, and I still read some there, I just do not stay and post a comment. I really like to learn from others. I go to other sites too to learn.] Things like that can make for a very unhappy person and we do not need that any more in this world of ours than already is. I for one do not object letting this one person get it out of their system, then go on with doing our thing here. But do not keep it up on a daily basis! I can give advise and go on. Hoping that one might just listen to what I say. If not then so be it. But to continue this crap. It is not healthy for any of us. Besides we have way toooooo much fun here to let this get to us. And now that this America we all share is getting much deeper in the despair, we should get rid of, we all have a great big job to help get rid of this despair….not just for us but for our neighbors and friends who feel betrayed by the GOP. I know their feelings. It is a feeling of such despair!
Now who is gonna pour me a glass of iced tea and I will furnish the cyber pizza tonight AGAIN!!!! :o)
I love each of you here and I will stand up for each of you here and that goes for anyone who feels hurt and despair by any old thing that does this to them. I think we are all in that old boat. Lots of big hugs going out to you all…..
Whew what a day!!!! the rain finally stopped here and it is so humid…but they say more rain is on the way…
Sweet or unsweetened tea?
I like some of the front-page stuff at Daily Kos, but other things…not so much.
So, thanks to soj, I downloaded and set up an RSS reader (you can see more here). This allows me to quickly see the major headlines a couple of times a week without dealing with comments and stuff.
Now I can see what’s being posted there while not losing any of the warm fuzzy feelings of being a happy Boo Trib member.
is geat advice and also cracked me up when I started visiting your site. But I also believe – USE COMMON SENSE – applies to blogs as well as non-cyber space.
This place is awesome. Everyone here is awesome.
:O)
:O) :O)
:O) :O)
:O) :O)
:O) :O)
:O) :O)
:O) :O)
:O)
Booman is awesome.
Group hugs are awesome.
…for spelling it out clearly.
It’s a fine line to walk, but I agree 100% with how you’re walking it.
Banning discussion (esp ‘negative’) about ‘over there’ would be as silly as banning discussion of certain Democrats. If we can have frank discussions about our politicians, our candidates, our policies, our special-interest groups, our political strategy, our organizations, and the media covering our political views — banning discussions related to certain Democratic-oriented blogs would be… Republican.
Open discussion is, well, open.
Maybe you could craft a form-letter to that effect for those who have a problem with legitimate reflection and discussion of liberal institutions such as say, blogs. After all, they generally have no problem with such comments about the NYT or Newsweek, or the DNC, or…
I suppose I should bookmark this diary for the next time someone presumes to tell another poster “Booman said don’t talk about daily Kos”.
Thanks Booman, for spelling out what is and isn’t appropriate. No surprise, the “isn’t” pretty much boils down to rule #1: Don’t be a prick.
Where I part company is the demand that the diary / comment be crossposted at dKos. Not to sound overly dramatic, but kos has, more or less, officially announced that he reserves the right to purge people in the future who cross various ill-defined lines. For those of us who still try to hang out both there and here, why demand that we jeopardize our standing over there if we want to say something about dKos?
In general, I agree with the principle that one shouldn’t talk about somebody behind his or her back. But BooTrib is hardly a private conversation. As those ridiculous e-mails that you’ve been receiving indicate, the Kossacks in question can and do read this blog.
As I read this diary, you are, quite reasonably, trying to preserve free speech while discouraging abusive speech. Given dKos’s current ambivalence about free speech, rather than demanding actual crossposting, could you make the demand more hypothetical (i.e. don’t post anything here that, assuming you wouldn’t be banned, you wouldn’t be willing to post on dKos)? Or, better yet, simply ask our community members, if they insist on posting criticisms of dKos, to do so under the (quite plausible) assumption that the Kossacks one is discussing will be reading the post?
Such a request ought to have the same effect as what you’re asking for, BooMan, without essentially forcing your posters to risk their status at dKos.
Keep up the good work! This is a great site, above and beyond Kos Anonymous.
and I’ll tell you why.
I will eventually piss some of you off. Some of you will get mad at me and leave. And when you leave, some of you will go to some other blog and talk about why you left.
That’s okay. But if you start writing personal insults about me, if you question my motives, and my character, I don’t want to have to go over and register at that site to respond. It’s not right.
And I won’t support diaries that do that to Daily Kos front-pagers here.
A comment in a thread about dKos is one thing. But a diary that makes personal attacks is another. Anyone who writes a diary slamming a dKos front-pager, not for their ideas, but for their integrity MUST be cross-posted at dKos. Or else I will take action.
I might share a touch of Bush’s fault for loyalty to my friends. But I also refuse to tolerate anything I consider to be unfair.
?
you are at a disadvantage. Don’t write diaries that are personal attacks on dKos front-pagers.
Look, I don’t want personal attacks from anyone. But sometimes people have a valid criticism. If they do, and it’s personal, cross-post it. Or post it there and not here.
What is pissing me off is that people say things about Markos, and others that are highly critical on a personal level, and then they go over to dKos and pretend they never said it.
That’s bunk.
If you’ve left voluntarily, let it go. If you’ve been banned, don’t get personal.
And if you use both sites, post both places.
you keep repeating this. Many of the people I have problems with don’t currently post on the front page, having only registered at dKos in March, I don’t know much of the history, so I have to ask: are you specifically talking about people who currently post on the front-page or are you talking about anyone who might have EVER posted on the front page? Just curious.
This reminds me… I just realized the other day that “Front Pagers” at no site in particular, let’s say generic, are also sort of moderators of the site (I know… Duh!).
When I was under the mistaken impression that Front Pagers just posted sometimes on the front page, but otherwise were just site users, I viewed things one way. When I realized they were also sort of surrogate site moderators for the site owner(s), I viewed behaviour I had given a pass before as unacceptable. This actually is not partaining only to one site people might have in mind, but also to other scoop sites, some on the right hand side of the aisle, like Red State.
Anyway, BooMan, I’d again express appreciation for your and Susan’s efforts at setting the tone… and put in an early request that if and when you do have other “front pagers” (that are here often), and if they also double as some type of moderators, that they are encouraged to not be any sort of genitalia at all. In fact, not to come anywhere near the area… don’t even be a bellybutton!
Okay, well maybe a bellybutton is okay… but no futher!
What is pissing me off is that people say things about Markos, and others that are highly critical on a personal level, and then they go over to dKos and pretend they never said it.
Why would this piss you off? Saying anything critical about dkos, however well reasoned and ‘non personal’ and particularly anything critical about the manner in which authority is used and abused there meets with the same receptivity as an argument for voting for Nader. (reflexive disclaimer: I’ve never voted for Nader or wanted to) The very personal attacks which ensue are something that most people would not wish to subject themselves to.
dkos has become very like the Bush administration in it’s collective inability to accept criticism or alternate viewpoints. There are a couple of (former) FP posters over there who are predictably vicious and a great many other people (centered on the sole offshoot blog which is to the right of dkos) who support them. So most folks aren’t going to cross-post criticism or analysis addressing this because doing so is a futile and masochistic endeavor.
I’m mildly concerned that your concerns appear to be extended towards a few individuals you consider to be friends when, in fact, blogs are made or dissolved by the people who voluntarily choose to participate on them.
When dkos has won awards it wasn’t the quality of the FP writing which won the awards, it was the community as a whole. This sense of community is being systematically destroyed. Indeed the very sorts of people who work to produce a sense of community (and by this I do not mean the FP posters or those with large egos) are passively or actively discouraged from posting there and certainly from speaking honestly or from the heart.
Don’t you think that when hundreds of people leave a blog en masse and in varying stages of disgust, rage, and sadness that this indicates a problem or two? Does this not bear examination? Don’t you think that part of the problem extends to the leadership? (and by this I mean those who control the software and can ban, remove the ability to rate, or demand that no one impugn their integrity while attacking in the most vicious manner possible the integrity of others)
The FP posters aren’t special, they’re no more special than MilitaryTracy or Media Girl or Auntie Peachy or Passing Shot (indeed, in my personal biases they are far more interesting and valuable to listen to than, say, the crowd at TNH.)
Also I’ve not seen diaries written specifically to personally attack dkos front pagers. I’ve seen some criticism of dkos fpagers. I may have missed these diaries, of course, but I’m a bit uncomfortable with the notion that some of the folks who are an integral part of the problem should never recieve criticism for their behaviors anywhere, particularly when these same folks aren’t at all shy about enforcing a blatant double standard on this matter. Naturally I respect your concerns about your blog being a forum for such criticism but I do feel that if dkos is going to remain a viable blog it needs to examine what is and has been happening there and that people who haven’t entirely given up hope about the possibilities of blogs need to understand this undeniable failure.
Gotta agree…
…since it was Armando who came over here first trying to instigate a Zephyr-like mob bloodbath against ANYONE who didn’t fall in line and repeat his mantras. He even got huffy with one of the front pagers here when she would “repeat, after him”.
This biggest shame in this whole bruhaha was that Armando’s post was deleted.
It was truly scary… but highly enlightening as to the real mentality of who is on the FP over there.
Frankly, with “friends” like these… hate mail was inevitable… they don’t cotton to other points of view very well.
People need to understand the difference between being anonymous, and being semi-anonymous.
If you type my real name into Google, you will discover that I am BooMan. And then you will discover what people say about me. If they say terrible things about me, then my character and reputation is damaged.
Do I want that happening on another website where I may not even be aware of it? No.
I frankly don’t care if some of you are afraid to take the abuse your ideas will arouse on Daily Kos. This is not a place to post what you are afraid to post there.
I hope you understand my position.
Glass houses …
I agree with you 1000000%
HOWVER, I find it ironic that Kos and Armando are worried about being attacked then they unleashed the most despicable PERSONAL ATTACK ever in the blogsphere. That is when I really took notice of that emerging mentality over there.
I am not saying that the person in question was wrong or right but Kos was screaming from his front page porch that that person would never work in politics again and Armando stirred up the most blood thirsty ugly mob that not even the likes of Freeperville has seen.
So it is a bit disengenous of them to cry wolf now…
are you referring to? I mean who is never going to work in politics again?
Also, people are reading too much into this. While I have received emails from two front-pagers at dKos that expressed outrage at specific diaries, they were well-reasoned emails, expressing legitimate concern.
The emails I am talking about are from self-appointed defenders of the site, who have nothing better to do than scan this site for any hint of anti-Kos flavor, and then blame me for it.
I am not setting this policy in response to these idiots. I am setting it because a lot of people think the latest purge at Daily Kos was insincere, and done only to protect the brand name.
I’ve written about why protecting the brand name is a legitimate thing to do. I have also written about how they were wrong to call all conspiracy theorists loony. And I cross-posted about it.
There are a number of important issues raised by the banning, but slamming the integrity of the front-pagers is something I don’t want done here, unless it is also posted there.
In other words, I am not banning speculation about motives. I am banning speculation about motives that only appears here.
As for this post, Parker, please explain your accusations.
search for “Zephyr” and you see what I mean.
Hello Booman,
Would you please name the offending diaries?
Thanks
private correspondence is private.
I think you might have misread. I read it not as a revelation of the offending private emails but some links to the allegedly offending diaries that had been posted here on the BooMan Trib.
telling Cooper that Wilson’s wife is in the CIA is the same as telling Cooper that Valerie Plame Wilson is in the CIA, then telling you which diaries inspired emails, is the same as telling you who emailed me about them.
Let it go.
I think I can make a guess as to what might have inspired the emails. That said, I quickly scanned through about 240 diaries (roughly what have been posted here since the “purge” incident on the blog that shall now remain nameless), and I’ll have to say that for all the talk of “(nameless blog) Anonymous” I was underwhelmed. Seattle Liberal’s diary complaining about (nameless blog) Anonymous led to three other diaries (including this one) on the issue of whether or not BooMan trib is (nameless site) Anonymous. Prior to that, I can count three – maybe four diaries that since around the 8th or 9th of July that might have had negative commentary directed at the nameless blog in question. At max, maybe 3% of the diaries have anything to do with anything negative about (nameless blog). Take out Seattle Liberal’s diary and the three inspired by it, and that’s 1.5%. I’d be willing to wager my life’s savings (all five cents) that in the weeks since the pie fiasco died down, the percentage of diaries devoted to (nameless blog)-bashing would be less than even that.
In other words, as I’ve been saying all along, these things tend to die out on their own without intervention. (nameless blog) regulars who wish to make a career of bashing Booman Trib over alleged (nameless blog)-bashing need to get a grip.
On that note, I can “let it go.” No skin off my increasingly fat rear end.
Good one…unless, of course, said diaries defamed many Dkos posters at one time.
If one diary slandered 10 Kossacks, it would be impossible to breakout who the 2 offended parties were, just by revealing the diary.
So, I guess it wasn’t my diary. LOL.
People need to understand the difference between being anonymous, and being semi-anonymous.
I understand this distinction quite well and always have. This is part of the reason why it’s a good idea to take some care to express oneself thoughtfully on the ‘net. There are other reasons, of course. For instance, during the run-up to the last election I tried to convince several of the professional political people that daily personal insults directed towards folks from whom they or the Democratic party wish volunteer time or contributions were probably counterproductive. This idea, of course, was met with further insults and then, as the election drew closer and the polls were looking dicey, these same men took to ordering us to work harder. Eventually this struck me as fundamentally insane and, if these attitudes of ersatz leadership are widespread, part of the reason the Democrats keep losing elections.
Do I want that happening on another website where I may not even be aware of it? No.
A couple of points. While I do respect your insistence that this not happen here the notion that present and former FP posters at dkos could or should be immune from criticism is not only an unworkable plan, it’s part of the problem. People will criticise dkos, sometimes with justification and sometimes without.
I frankly don’t care if some of you are afraid to take the abuse your ideas will arouse on Daily Kos. This is not a place to post what you are afraid to post there.
I would take exception with the implied notion that I am personally afraid to post ideas on dkos. I don’t fear verbal abuse or some of the more difficult personalities over there. (if I did I would have stopped posting there a good long time ago). I am disgusted by it and, to some extent, amused when it’s directed towards me. To reiterate my position I no longer post much at dkos and not at all on on meta topics because it is a useless exercise and a waste of time to try to constructively address the undeniable problems over there and the failure of the blog to address these. I no longer wish to fix dkos, my interest in the blog is confined to understanding what went wrong there and in not repeating the mistake. It’s not as if I enjoy watching a couple of years of work be destroyed in two days.
I hope you understand my position.
I believe I do or, at least, since I became aware of the conflicts you were experiencing and your wishes in this matter I’ve kept my responses on the subject to a minimum here and indeed am speaking in this thread because you re-introduced the subject and because I suspect that some of the FP posters (whose career prospects I am frankly and understandably indifferent to) are engaging in forms of character assassination in forums where the underlings are unable to defend themselves.
I think your blog has greatly benefited from the purges of the feminists and others and that your response to the pie fight was generous. I think that those writing you would much rather we disappeared entirely and, also, that they are trying to extend their particular circle of dysfunctional bullying. I read here now because most of the people I like and have been interested in have migrated here. I continue to read dkos (although much less than I used to) because a few of the folks I like remain there. And I don’t and never have make decisions out of fear. Indeed, I think that the folks writing you sound afraid.
you think that I have said the dKos front-pagers should be immune from criticism, you have not understood a word of what I have written.
One last time:
All reasonable criticism is allowed. The only restriction is that diaries about front-pagers that are personal attacks must be cross-posted.
Colleen:
I agree, it’s not a question of being “afraid” of the abuse heaped upon one who dares to question Kos Orthodoxy–to quote the character of Sol Star from SusanHu’s favourite programme, “Deadwood”, when his friend asks him if he’s not offended by being called a “dirty kike”: “I’ve been called worse by better.”
No, my objection is providing free content to DailyKos. It’s a moot point in my case, anyway, as I give little thought to DailyKos except when someone posts a diary about it here. I don’t read there, nor do I post there–nor do I wish to exercise my posting privileges.
It’s a matter of principle.
Well, its always your call.
But if they were really your friends, they wouldn’t put their own ego’s above your need to run your site for your community.
In other words, if the priority is:
Then I feel pretty good about hanging out here.
If instead its:
Well, that’s just… wrong.
Ideally, it’d be
But that’s a bit idealistic, and I’ve been burnt by that sort of hope before.
I really didn’t think the request to crosspost personal criticisms of dkos frontpagers was a big deal, because the way I read it: covering an incident that would provoke such criticism would be allowed, covering the attitude/fallout would be allowed, pretty much anything would be allowed outside a personal attack.
What wouldn’t be allowed? Calling Armando “assmondo” (in honor of the old idiotic Hinderaker / “assrocket” quip) and giving a detailed of listing of all the times he’s used a Bush-league level of myopic hypocrisy when attacking those who disputed his interpretation of events. I’m not even sure that sort of thing should be accepted even with a cross-posting to dKos. It’s pretty hard to write one of those without breaking the “don’t be a prick rule”.
And if such a thing were posted, instead of everyone flaming out in insane madness, or Boo nuking it (and feeling like having to explain why it disappeared, etc)… we could just ignore it, and let it fall off the diary list. Lots of worthy diaries die a lonely death that way. Or it could get flamed as it sinks unrecommended, too.
I guess its trickier if it gets recommended. But then, that’s the community endorsing the topic (not necessarily the diary itself). And then I guess it could get tricky, if some large segment of the community thinks something is worthy and others (inc Booman) very much disagree.
But that’s a community issue larger than the topic that sparks it. Shutting down the topic only hides the problem, its doubtful it actually resolves the larger issue.
If I’ve learned anything from the Bush years, its that ignoring real problems can give the illusion of victory, but it only makes things much much worse in the long run.
Let’s live in it and afford all it’s liberties to those who disagree with us.
It was designed for the disgruntled! I also have a new blog. http://dameocrat.blogspot.com/
That need a little Loving Care
(grabs a can of bull-shit spray and sprays the whole site)
GET THE FUCK OVER IT
I’m not sure how many people were here when I was invited in, and no offense, but really don’t care, numbers are numbers and no more.
I have not made one comment until this moment from the beginning about Kos, or any other blog. Personally, I don’t give a rat’s ass about anything I don’t want to be a part of.
If it’s TV, turn the damned channel, hell even a toddler knows how to punch a button on the remote for christ’s sake.
If it’s the Net, use your damned finger on the mouse and click it the hell away, and then DON’T FUCK’N WHINE ABOUT IT
MOVE ON
Quit talk’n bout shit, and DO SOMETHING. Go to local political meetings, municipal, county, state, and hell yah, even the damned federal has open meetings. Go there, voice your opinion, ask questions, demand explantions, be what the the hell they are, a PAIN IN THE ASS.
BUT DAMN, QUIT WHINE’N
(my first and last comment about ANY other blog)
(maybe better without the profanity)
This whole thing is so funny to me… gosh, people really do take the internet so personally don’t they?
How about we just agree to put the words “Dkos” in the Diary title so those of us who don’t give a fig about reading here what goes on over there can skip it? 😉
Folks, look around you. It’s a beautiful day (night), you’re wealthy enough to live in a home and own a computer and subscribe to the most magical invention in history, the internet. You have loved ones and family in your life, perhaps even a pet. Life is not so bad… so take a deep breath, turn off the computer if another site bugs you, and go for a walk or ride in your wheelchair or Rascal or gasoline powered vehicle.
Pax
God’s in his heaven and all’s right with the world?
Hm…that might be your view but others are not so sanguine.
Oh, to live in a world where others do not presume to tell others what is and is not important to them. It is but a dream I have.
Actually, if we all have it so well, why are we opposing the current government of the United States? Sounds like paradise by your reckoning.
Having said that–I’m still uncomfortable with this whole cross-posting idea, and would actually prefer an outright ban on discussion of DailyKos. My preference is to keep all discussions of DailyKos at DailyKos, or place no restrictions whatsoever on them here.
The whole subject of talking about Kos here makes all the issues once removed. I wasn’t trivializing people’s beefs, complaints, issues or problems.
In other words, I more or less agree with Boo saying if you have a problem with Kos (or someone there), go there. There are 50.000 users, I’m sure some of them agree with you or your issue or have something to say about it.
I haven’t read all the relevant material, but it seems to me nothing is so urgently wrong or catastrophic at Dkos that people can’t be at ease here without addressing it here.
Seems to me that’s what Yahoo discussion groups were created for…
Of course I may be wrong, as I often am 😉
Pax
Dkos is up to 70,000 actually. So generalizing about Kossacks isn’t feasible, (although the statements of the owner can be evaluated) What I don’t get is the time and effort posters devote to going back and forth, critisizing in one place, denying in another, hate emails, it’s wacked. All the energy of these hostile, obsessive people should be devoted to what they supposedly came to blogs for – furthering our goals.
I keep getting surprised at the number of Americanisms I haven’t heard before. Earlier today it was “screwing the pooch”, and now I’m afraid I have to ask what is a Rascal?
I say surprised because I thought that Hollywood’s colonisation of the world had spread the full diversity of the American language. [It has certainly caused my 7yo daughter to speak like an African-American teenager with attitoood as a result of watching That’s so Raven. Yikes!!]
A Rascal is an electric scooter designed to transport people both indoors and outdoors–it is for people who have limited mobility in their lower limbs but is not for the wheelchair-bound.
Thank you, Shadowthief. We probably have them here, too, but I just haven’t heard the name before. Does that mean I fall into the category of those who see when shown? 😉
The important question is, do you fall into the category of those who plug in the Rascal scooter when the batteries are low?
You mean you don’t have to buy a new one when it stops moving…?
Shhhh you’ll give the manufacturers ideas.
http://www.rascalscooters.com/
Remember: With Rascal, YOU decide what fits your needs best. Scooter or Powerchair. Three wheels or four. Indoor or Outdoor models. Plus, Rascal is the only scooter with the patented ConvertAble® System for 3-scooters-in-1 value.
If I had a Rascal, I’d tinker with the engine and race the damned thing. Getting it painted candy-apple red with metallic flake, gold striping, and flame decals on the sides. Oh, and a personalised “born to be bad” license plate.
Rascal is the name of Rick Santorum’s pooch…
Hollywood and the mass media don’t even begin to capture all of the delightful regional idioms here, any more than Crocodile Dundee provides a complete and accurate picture of the Australian dialect!
Personally, it seems to me that the Brits are currently leading the pack with the rapid expansion of their dialect of our common language, or at least that’s the impression I get from reading The Guardian. Where else will you find a headline announcing that the Tories are tired of yobs breaching their asbos? I had to ask a Brit friend on an otherwise apolitical mailing list what that one meant.
My own feeling is of appreciation — not particularly of the policy, but rather the fact that you’ve made the policy public. Better now than later.
I think there’s no question that tempers are short and heads are turned at dKos. Is it any surprise? When I joined there in November, it already was a very large site. Now? Like any site, the character of it will change as the participants change, as the numbers change, as events take their course.
It’s only natural that the progressive net world talks about what’s happening at Kos. Online, anyway, DailyKos is often the newsmaker rather than the news reporter or commentator. Of course we’re going to pay attention.
I have my own opinions about how things have gone there of late. I said it there and got the “shut up already” kinds of responses that left a long and bitter aftertaste. But it’s Kos’s site, and he can run it how he wants. As time goes on, he’ll either prove himself mostly right, mostly wrong or mostly irrelevant.
I’ve found the atmosphere here much more congenial. It’s a rare commodity on public sites these days. Places like DU et al. are so strident, it’s impossible to think. I much prefer thoughtful discourse — passionate but courteous (mostly).
Anyway, thanks for clarifying things. I’ve ranted here and there, and if I crossed the line, I apologize.
Rigorous Intuition already started a discussion about DailyKOS’ recent purging.
http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/07/trouble-with-normal.html
(Disclaimer: It is not my blog, but I enjoy it.)
(psssst. . .if you’re out there, check out the post directly above me . . . the one with a link to Rigorous Intuition. Should you choose to take a peek. . .just a little one . . . I won’t tell your wife ;^)
and I like it and I am glad you won’t tell my wife, she hates that I have all these conspiracy theories rattling around in my head.
I keep telling her I am not paranoid, they really are out to get us.
lmao
thanks for the heads up Anomalous.
One nameless fellow Boo, got a mention as a hired gun for the establishment, a professional poster/debunker.
Booman also got a positive shout out.
Boy…. being away for a few weeks and everything goes to hell in a handbasket.
I just read Boo’s old post on DKos… which clarifies alot.
Seems like there is some heavy duty arm twisting going on for Boo to silence the dissent over here.
Now rereading Boo’s pleas for more “focused” debates makes sense. If I am understanding correctly, the message is to attack the issues not the persons. I admit I had the kneejerk reaction to impending censorship was coming this way… but if I comprehend right (I could be wrong) this is to say that we should all be cognizant of Boo’s unfortunate position being caught between a “hard place and a rock”. The “hard place” being dKos and it’s censor-happy cohorts and “the rock” pond dwellers who are pissed off and took refuge from the curtailment of freedom of speech.
I shal try to be more careful in how I “phrase” my posts from now on not to attack persons but issues.
That being said… it is really sad to see the death of a once vibriant forum… there must be an essay it this somewhere. Is this a natural cycle to liberation?
Isn’t is ironical that most of the world’s despots where once “Freedom Fighters”… Mugabe fought in the trenches now he abuses the very people he fought to liberate… but once in a blue moon humanity gets a break from this cycle and we are shown the extreme good that can result from it. It is a very rare man or woman who has the strength and integrity to break this cycle… Mandela was one.
One thing is for sure that it can only happen to an enlightened person… that is not to say educated or rich but one who has the ability to think and contemplate his actions. Mandela spent 27 years in prison and instead of coming out with venom and hatred in his heart he came out as though he had been a recluse monk on a mountaintop. I always say he meditated for for 27 years and came to the conclusion that he had to set aside his ego in order to save his people and his country… that is the difference between Mandela and Mugabe.
They both started on the same path but one was able to put the good of his country and people before himself and the other became blinded by the riches of his position and put his self before his country and people.
No time to write an essay now… but I will put these thoughts on the back burner and hope to at a later date expand these ideas.
Wow, in reading the comments following Booman’s Dkos post on reality…this bit of altered wisdom comes to mind:
Keep your enemies close and your friends closer.
I call it trust!!!!!!!!!! I do not trust somethings said or who is saying them. Why, it is a learned behavior with me. When I am thrusted into a bedlham of fanatics, I start to run like hell to cover my head…been there done that before, type of reaction. I do not trust some over there….I have learnd to trust here. That is the difference, with me. I do not like being told I do not amount to much because of my thoughts and why I think something. That will get one no where, with me, IMHO. After all this is the internet, not my home/life. I do have a real life here. My have own opinion and my own set of values and standards to live by and work by. If that does not go along with yours or anyone elses, then I am sorry. I give you the benefit of the doubt tho, and go onward and say what I think.
Now I want to trust. But thru many years of trusting, I have learned not to trust everyone and what they say/do. So when I said the other day in a diary written, I not only verify, I do it more than twice. I do not take any ones word as god least of all kos or boo or anyone else for that matter. I am capable of looking things up and deciding on my own. Besides, I would like to see kos and boo would do the same thing. It is called intellegent behavior and research.
To have someone belittle me is not worth the effort it take to bypass the statement in the first damn place.
I do not like some opinions on things here and there and other places, but I do give them the right to say it. I only hope the favor is given back in return.
God, with all this government has done to us and our world, do we really trust any of them????!!! I don’t! I wouldn’t put anything past them and some other governments in this world. I served in my government and I learned not to just trust, but to only verify and do it more than once. I am one, too, that would wait to see the outcome before I start to disect it and see what it is about. That is my starting place for anything. I tried to do this with my family and friends before setting any judgments on anything. My actions on some things have not been gratifing for my family and friends, but usually worked out to be the actions that needed to have been taken. I am not perfect, after all I am human, but with that being said, I respect others enough to let them say what they want to get it out into the open and then debate the issue. I have had to tolerate much in my lifetime to see the total picture. I am not putting anyone down in this comment. I am just saying how I feel and hope I do not hurt anyone feelings. This is not my intention at all.
I DO NOT LIKE ANYONE GIVING BOOMAN A HARD TIME ON ANYTHING THAT GOES ON HIS SITE. ESPECIALLY SOMEONE FROM ANOTHER SITE. LET THEM STAY THERE AND WE CAN STAY HERE. HE OWES NO ONE ANYTHING AND I LOVE HIM FOR WHAT HE STANDS FOR. PEACE….
Thanks, BooMan. It seems the appropriate way to address this. It makes all such diaries available for comment on both sites and it poses no undue burden on the individual poster.
more interesting if you search on Dkos…
Even I remember this one. It was gone over, ad nauseum, on kos… which is exactly where it should be gone over, actually.
Do a search on kos… read all Markos’s posts on it, Jerome’s, the communities, etc. There were plenty.
With all due respect, it seems as though we may go over it here since Booman initiated the conversation.
use tinyurl.com to shorten long url’s titles. Or encase them in the <a href format.
What if someone calls me up on the phone and offers me a contract to do some consulting for their campaign?
And what if I agree to do that consulting, disclose it publicly?
And then what will I feel like if the campaign turns around and says they bought me off, and paid me more than I was worth?
Even if it were true, I would feel betrayed. And if I felt it was a lie, I would be totally outraged.
I doubt anyone would want to hire me as a consultant, but I am somehow precluded from opportunities to make a dollar doing something I believe in, just because I have a blog?
Everyone is so suspicious. I think Markos and Jerome were betrayed, and their character was unfairly besmirched. I don’t know all the facts about how they responded, so I can’t really speak to that.
I want to get Democrats elected. That is my goal. Fame and fortune are not my goals. If I wanted fame, I’d post under my real name. If I wanted fortune I would have gotten serious about making money 15 years ago.
But, being an activist and making money are not incompatible. Some people think the worst of someone for having some financial success. I think that is wrong.
I was the PERSONAL ATTACK that I was referring to that went beyond the bounds of decency. As stated I was not making a judgement if the person was right or wrong. The viciousness and the vile language the spewed from this was sickening
Thanks for responding. Will shorten urls in the future.
I hope you do get a call for consulting and I would not expect disclosure of whomever your employer is. However, ethically speaking, if contractually you sold airtime on BooTrib in the form of positive editorial commentary for a particular politician, lobby or corporation I would expect that possibility to be delineated somewhere on your site.
I wasn’t making a value judgement on profit through activism. I was making a value judgement on censoring inconvenient items, on a site billed as open discourse, to ensure one’s profit.
Additionally, sounds like you weathered the storm of the anonymous complainers w/o resorting to removal action. Thanks for absorbing the blow for us.
Further, the bowling pin/parrot analogy you used in another post was priceless.
Thank you for this, and a whole lot more. I am a Daily Kos poster, and a Booman poster. I didn’t change over, I just changed my ways… and my name.
I try to be a better writer. I try to stay sane and balanced through the storms of personal attacks and character criticisms that are not pertinent to the news, opinion or writing. So I put my energies into trying to improve myself, and have a broader point of view…. it’s working.
Thanks for everything. And especially for Booman Tribune which has set a standard. It’s open and enjoyable… a good feeling!