This is my first post here, so just a quick intro: I’m the daughter of the user known as madrone on this site, and I use British spelling. Hi.
I was born in 1988, and grew up in the liberal area of Santa Cruz, California. It never occurred to me that other places were any different. Though I read about the injustices of the past, I assumed that they had been defeated long ago. I believed that we had achieved the ideals of freedom and equality for all.
I ignored even the obvious things that were wrong. I was so convinced that people were all as enlightened as the ones I knew, and that the struggles were over, that I didn’t notice the warning signs telling me that this was not true. One of my blind spots was when I fell for the propaganda declaring modern feminists to be anti-male extremists who wanted supremacy and not equality. I reasoned that men and women must be equal, because that issue looked settled in the history books.
My mother tried to prepare me for life in the outside world, but I admit that I didn’t take her seriously. Her stories about marching against the school board on a weekly basis were interesting, but not important. Her warnings about rape, sexual harassment, and sex discrimination I dismissed as carried over from an unenlightened past.
Imagine, then, my shock when I first saw Star Trek. It shows some amusing ideas about scientific progress and contains some dated behaviour, but despite these failings it is progressive even by modern standards. I had believed that forty-year-old TV shows would be far behind modern media, but to my astonishment I saw the reverse.
In the original pilot for the series, the second-in-command on the starship was a woman known as Number One. The studio rejected her as too progressive, and the character was replaced by Mr. Spock, but this is nevertheless a clear sign of Gene Roddenberry’s efforts to break down cultural barriers.
This effort continues in later episodes. In the first season, for example, the character of Janice Rand plays a significant role. She is curvy, pretty, and wears a beehive on her head, but what struck me immediately about her was that she is a strong and independent character. She defines her boundaries and keeps them: coolly slapping a supernatural being who refuses to take “no” for an answer and fighting off a rape attempt by an evil clone of Captain Kirk. Also, despite the mutual attraction between Kirk and herself, she avoids being solely or primarily a romantic interest for him. She is a person first and a woman second.
When I first saw this, I admired Rand for her independence without actually being able to determine why I found her so remarkable. Later, though, when I discovered that her disappearance upset me, I realised what made her special: In my experience with modern media, I had never seen a young, attractive, female character who was equal in every way to the male characters.
There are strong female characters in modern films, but most ultimately exist for some man. Whether she saves the world or merely refuses to tolerate Mr. Generic Creep, the modern female character ends up surrendering her power to some nice-looking guy. A modern female lead must have a male.
This may be because, after the first strong, independent female characters were accepted, there was no apparent need to keep them single. Without the strong push for independence, romance and strength could co-exist. I am glad of this; however, I am troubled by my generation’s lack of single female role models. I worry that this gives girls the impression that they cannot be complete without boyfriends.
Watching more Trek now, I see a number of women as token love interests, but I also see a lot of positive things. I see a black woman playing a role that the studio wanted given to a white man. I see Dr. McCoy re-educating a woman on a backwards planet to believe that the child she’s pregnant with is as much hers as her husband’s. I see Captain Kirk using his sexual appeal for selfish reasons while still respecting the women involved. It’s mind-bogglingly alien.
Perhaps my view of the modern media is skewed because I don’t watch as much television or as many movies as others my age. If so, this entry may be overly pessimistic. If not… I wonder how many other kids think the way I did?
Thank you, SpaceLogic, for a thought-provoking diary.
I am also struggling to come up with any single female role models for the current generation. Perhaps my eldest daughter (7yo) is still too young to be expressing much interest in these things, but I have a nasty feeling that the mass media / mass culture influences that are at work on her are marketing the same power relations that your mother’s generation struggled with.
The best role-model hope we have in our household is that my partner (and the girl’s mother) is a strong, intelligent, articulate woman who has a professional career. Can’t say more now – gotta go make dinner. Will check back later to see others’ reaction to your diary.
Oh, and by the way – welcome to BooTrib!
for possible answers.
I’m not talking about Anna Kournikova, who used her sex appeal to draw the crowds while never winning a major tournament, or even Maria Sharapova who’s a better tennis player but still seems to be more about looks.
I’m talking about the Williams sisters, who have confidence to go with the mad tennis skills, and other women tennis players who go out there and give it their all every day.
I’m talking about the women soccer players in the US who excel at a game the US men suck at, and their sisters around the world.
I’m talking about women ice hockey players who go out and battle just as hard as the male hockey players.
I’m talking about Michelle Wie, who goes out and competes on the same field as the men, just because she can.
I was in junior high when the Billie Jean King/Bobby Riggs match occurred; those were the infancy days of Title IX, when it still wasn’t “ladylike” to be too good in sports, a girl could get out of “suiting up” for PE by telling the teacher she had her period, and there were whispers about the sexual orientation of the girls’ PE teachers. I remember how thrilled all the girls’ PE teachers were when King kicked Riggs’ ass all over the court.
We’ve come a long way since then, but there’s still a certain stigma to women’s sports. A nationally broadcast sports talk host derides women’s basketball, calling the players “nags” and hanging on them sobriquets like “Secretariat” or “Man O’ War”. A league for professional women’s soccer folded. IIRC, a few years ago a man said that there were too many lesbians on the LPGA (Ladies’ Professional Golf Association) tour; he was fired, but I’m sure many folks figured he was right. Studies have shown that participating in sports raises a girl’s confidence and makes her less prone to teenage pregnancy, but in many parts of the country girls are still trying to get equal time on the playing fields. And there are efforts to weaken Title IX, as it’s falsely being blamed for cuts in men’s sports such as track and field, wrestling, and others.
Sorry to get on my soapbox…but if there’d been more encouragement for sports when I was younger (as well as more emphasis on individual fitness and less on team activities, but that’s another issue), I probably wouldn’t be fighting the Battle of the Bulge in my 40s…
The energy level is astonishing. I saw them in an exhibition and I could not for the life of me understand why this type of play is not sought out by all comers.
It’s not just sports. Encouraging participation in academics, and recognizing accomplishments, has a similar effect on confidence.
In other words… Recognition of abilities and talents in general is a good thing.
Who’d’ve thought?
to weaken title IX cause the poor little boys don’t have alumni $$$ except for football or perhaps basketball. They don’t care about the other sports.
Pardon me while I laugh hysterically at that trôpe.
Young women rarely believe that this male dominated society hates women. And with good reason, while you are still naïve and nubile your caché is at its highest in patriarchal society.
Men on the other hand, are furthest from the exhalted postion of patriarch when they are young, and more likely to “rebel” against the system early.
The end result of this skewing in “favor” of young women and older men is that women become more radical as they age, and the corrollary – men become more conservative as they age.
Which is why most of the long-haired male hippies ended up as investment bankers, and most of the hippy women (tired of “free love” that was anything but free) formed conciousness-raising groups and started the second wave of feminism.
Like your mother’s advice, I hope this tidbit proves helpfull when you are finally in a position to hear and understand it.
pax,
keres
Keres, your analysis is spot-on!! (Even though nobody is acknowledging me as the patriarch and paying suitable obeisance to me in my late 40s!!) But I thought the last sentence was a bit tough: I think SpaceLogic’s diary is all about the fact that she is thinking about her mother’s advice.
Hi canberra boy.
Yeah, I got Spacelogic’s bit about how age has opened her ears to what older women (in this case her mother) have been saying all along.
But none of us, myself included, are through listening to our elder women. It was in that spirit that I wrote my concluding sentence. No snark intended.
pax,
keres
(I am not assuming anyone will read my responses necessarily, but I thought I’d respond anyway.)
Thanks for your comment. It’s logical, if somewhat frightening, and made me think. I think your last paragraph is right, though; I have more growing up to do before I can really “get” it.
Welcome Spacelogic! I’m a Trekki due to my mom’s influence. I’m always amused by the sci-fi discussions here on the blogs because it’s clear that many of us share similar interests beyond politics. The bias you describe is good food for thought. I don’t know if I would call it pessimistic, more of an observation based on your experiences. I live in the desert southwest so the biases I see are somewhat different–more racial based rather than gender. Thx for the diary, hope to see more from you in the future. Paz!
I never thought I’d see a thoughtful diary about Yeoman Rand. My favorite episode with her is the one where all the adults catch a virus than makes them age rapidly. She gets an unsightly scab on her legs that mars her otherwise spectacular appearance.
From one Trekkie to another, I really enjoyed reading this, and I saw Ms. Rand in a new light.
…MGM house producer for ST. I worked with him in early Seventies on a music project with the Who/Townshend. After Woodstock, MGM was throwing money in every direction, including London, to try to catch the ‘Youth’ wave.
He was a strange mix of accountant/executive and genuinely open being. I assumed that ST was the same. He was superbly dressed, always with a different coloured stripey bankers shirt with a too-tight collar which his right index finger was perpetually loosening in a behavioural tic. We were all long-haired movie revolutionaries in a company called Tattooist International. But we sat and had amazing conversations about all and everything. I thought he was great, and I assume that he brought that kind of freewheeling intelligence to ST too. It was not my first experience of Hollywood, but thankfully my last.
The Who management brought in ‘the other Hollywood’ lawyers and proceeded to destroy the project. Bastards.
I doubt if ‘Herb Solows’ survived for long in Hollywood.
You have enjoyed a very interesting life, by the sound of it, Sven. Herb Solow himself seems to have lasted with MGM only until 1973. There must still be some pretty interesting characters around in Hollywood, because we still get some worthwhile and different films.
I didn’t know that (1973) – perhaps our project contributed to his downfall. I hope not.
That sounds painfully similar to his ST experience in the ’60s as head of Desilu. (He reported only to Lucy.) They were doing some exciting stuff. After producing only sitcoms, suddenly they took on Star Trek and Mission: Impossible.
When Paramount took over, he described how accountant-types were suddenly having input, and 15-man committees replaced decision-makers.
He wrote a book with Bob Justman that is really fascinating, a great look into indie television … and the shortcuts they took to make Star Trek happen.
Welcome to BMT!
Star Trek pushed the envelope on several social issues of its day, but the best way that it did was the quiet, never-openly-stated one: it assumed that we managed to survive the cold war without blowing ourselves to kingdom come, and established a world government that not only brought peace to our solar system, but was spreading Enlightenment ideals throughout the galaxy. Probably one of the most hopeful and optimistic scenarios ever presented in science fiction.
Have you seen “Alien?” (The original one; I haven’t seen the sequels.) What are your thoughts on Sigourney Weaver’s character (can’t remember her name)?
And yes, it was me screaming in the movies when the cat jumps out! LOL
And she stays just as kick-ass in the sequels — Aliens being by the far the best of them.
Now there’s a single female role model!!!! Will have to show my daughters in due course. But given that the original film was made in 1979, I’m not sure if it satisfies SpaceLogic’s interest in single female role models for her generation!
To be contrasted with Britain’s low budget (ST was…) Sci-Fi series of the same era, Blake’s Seven.
Dark. The Federation (I think it’s the Federation there, too) is a dictatorship in a democratic guise, really (and the dictator’s a woman, BTW… Servalan).
Worth seeing. It’s as much a creature of its time, but also showed some really startlingly forward thinking, even as it portrayed a distressingly dystopian world. Blake, who is the ‘hero’ is a politician who falls afoul of those in power and gets framed (for child molestation, IIRC)!
All sorts of other interesting discussions spin out of comparing and contrasting the two programs.
Haven’t seen it; I may have to look into it (though my dad is still freaked out by his memory of it and he doesn’t freak out as easily as I do.)
I had actually forgotten the Cold War, which is proof that my historical knowledge is weak. Thanks for pointing that out.
Farscape has some of the best independent female characters on any show. And unlike Star Trek, it never has any whiff of anti-intellectualism. It’s not on now but SciFi Channel has done repeats in the past and it is available on DVD. It’s a great show.
And of course there’s Buffy.
The best way to find strong, independent women in the media is to look for the films made by independent women directors.
A while back I did a diary for second wave feminists to tell some of their stories to the younger generation. You might enjoy reading some of the comments. You can read them at Feminist Story Hour
Thanks for pointing out Feminist Story Hour, which I missed at the time. It was great!
Thanks for the compliment. I put it up on a Sunday. I think I learned that it isn’t a great time to put up a new diary. Maybe I’ll do a second round at some point.
BTW, where’s your aussie chauvinism — I was expecting a major shout out from you and keres on Farscape.
Let me shock you by saying that I had never heard of Farscape until you mentioned it here, AndiF!!
I had never heard of Farscape either, and promptly went to Netflix and put every season I could find in my queue. Thanks for a great suggestion!
I love sci-fi, they can do anything and everything. Much less boring than most of the other regular stuff. Lots of surprises!
is a fantastic show. I think it is the most imaginative and intelligent scifi show I’ve ever seen. I’m delighted to bring it new fans.
If at all possible, you do want to watch the seasons in order. The story arc literally builds from episode to episide.
Yes, I made sure it was in order. Most series seem to be like that, that’s the reason I dislike reruns, they mix them all up. 🙁
She was a pretty tough character as well. Babylon 5 also played with the idea of feminine equality, with women serving in combat roles int EarthForce. There was even one episode where Garibaldi was the touchy-feely one and the redshirt was the tough one looking for a one night stand.
JMS wrote some quotable lines in that series, and more often than not it was the girls who got to say them. “There is only one man who won a fight against the Mimbari, and he is behind me. You are in front of me. If you value your life, be somewhere else.”
On the other hand, most of the female characters in Babylon-5 got into and were, to some degree, defined by a relationship with a male. Ivanova and Marcus (quite well-handled, mind), Delenn and Sheridan, Lyta and Byron (ruined Lyta’s character for me), Matthew and Elizabeth (didn’t see much of that one thanks to Crusade’s short run).
Talia Winters was the major exception, but her fate was not exactly pleasant.
One of the better sci-fi series – sci-fi anime, to be precise, produced in Japan – for the portrayal of women is Crest/Banner of the Stars. Though the Abh that are the focus of the show are not, strictly speaking, human, the female characters are always the equals of the males. The rarely-shown Abh Empress is female, and most certainly does not need any men to help her rule. One of the best Abh admirals in the shows is female, and is best described as “assertive”. The heroine, despite being a princess, is tougher, brighter, and more independent than the hero. The hero, in comparison, is more emotional, hesitant, and dependent. (Though to be fair, he is a nice guy in the middle of a very complex and alien culture)
Hell, Lafiel winds up being a captain in the Banner series, and Jinto’s just her supply officer.
Lt. Col. Samantha Carter.
Also the new Battlestar Galactica: Lt. Kara Thrace. President Laura Roslin. New season begins Friday night, along with Stargate.
Excellent diary, btw!!
Farscape, eh? I’ll have to check that out.
(Trek anti-intellectual? Hm, interesting, I don’t see that at all.)
re: Feminist Story Hour: Wow, that was informative. Thank you for posting that and for letting me know.
I shouldn’t post pre-coffee, but I just can’t resist. I grew up with Star Trek and still adore the show. I was aware that it pushed some social issues like rascism, but I must admit, that I always was mad at the way women were treated in it. Your viewpoints on Rand really opened some new neural pathways for me. While I did appreciate that there were women at all on the bridge and ship, I got more than peeved at the skimpy costumes and the damsel in distress motif.
Great diary and welcome to Booman!
I went to a display on the original Star Trek series at the Smithsonian a number of years ago, where we could see just how cheesy the show props really looked up close and so on…
But what struck me was one comment about the women’s costumes. WE today look at them and think, mini-skirts, how sexist… but at the time the show was being made, those short skirts were considered liberating, because they allowed for freedom of movement.
Personally, I liked the unisex jumpsuits used in later Star Trek shows, or even the pants uniforms the women (like Number One) used in the very earliest episodes, when they wore essentially the exact same uniform as the men.
And while the actress did get tired of her “Hailing Frequencies open, sir” line — the mere fact that she was THERE, visible and competent and respected by her peers on the bridge, was a powerful visual image for the late 1960s.
I like the jumpsuits and find them far more practical and realistic.
Judging from the clothing being offered young women today, clearly, skin is back in. It’s practically impossible to get my girl anything than isn’t either low-cut or too short. Meanwhile, all the guys are wearing clothes that would fit three or four people at the same time. So, I guess we’ve come full circle!
We have to remember that women had had the pill for barely 5 (?) years when the series first ran. Society was just probing the possibilities of women being openly, assertively sexual, yet independent of mind, socially equal to men and self-reliant.
I was finishing high school and entering college at that time. The open sexual behavior of women was dimensions beyond any lore I’d had from older kids or my parents’ generation, or really from any source, whereas almost everything else they described about college social life was spot-on.
I regarded the series as sexist at the time. This was also within a year or few of Bill Cosby going onto I Spy as the first-ever male co-star, and I felt that was a much broader, deeper representation of equality than what I saw of the women on Star Trek. The girls and women I knew of the time were definitely ahead of the show.
especially in over-the-air (as opposed to cable) programming, is usually a few years behind the culture IMHO. Look at how gay people are portrayed (think Jack on “Will and Grace”), and compare it to the gay people you may know in your life. Most of the gays I know are pretty damn boring in comparison. One colleague of the spouse’s talks mainly about the work he and his partner are doing on their house; I’ve told him they should get a TLC series.
I find myself very pessimistic about gender equality in America. As far as we have come (and I watched Star Trek when it was on the first time around) I see the teen queen role models on TV that my granddaughter is subjected to and I cringe. As often as possible I use female gender terms to describe the things one can do in life. Likewise I try to fit in discussions of positive female role models that have reached high levels in various fields. I want her to never doubt, to take for granted, that she can go anywhere, be anything, accomplish anything she sets her mind to.
We have a loooooooong way to go still. In gender equality and in racial equality. ’88? That makes you 17. I applaud you for and open and aware mind. I applaud your parents for teaching you to be aware of what is going on around you. You talk about taking somethings for granted. I understand completely. It is part of growing up and trusting the people that teach us to give us the whole story.
Question everything.
Learn and trust the things you are taught to be the truth as the teachers know it. Then question it. Find out if there is more to the story. More points of view. Dissenting points of view. Other theories. Question everything.
Then question your own questions.
Peace,
Andrew
p.s. welcome to bootrib!
Gneder, race… whatever… is a process of creeping forward and holding ground, mostly.
Look how long abolition had to be worked towards before there could even be a legitimate movement for people to freak out about.
Not quite 17, actually. 🙂
I have nothing particularly meaningful to say in response to this. I just want to let you know that it struck a chord, and I appreciate it. Thank you.
The other major area Star Trek excelled was in its portrayal of race relations. Not only was the crew racially diverse, but it even included non-humans! A black woman, an asian man, and an alien all populated the bridge of the Enterprise. There was even a Russian, in spite of the fact that the show was filmed during the height of the cold war!!
I had overlooked the significance of Chekov! Thanks for pointing that out, I don’t think I’d have thought of it.
Chekov’s awesome. They actually point out how odd the character is in the fourth movie.
Great diary and welcome! This brought back why I loved this series-some strong women. Not as many as I would have liked but still way ahead of other shows. I don’t watch much tv anymore so I’m not sure if there are any single strong female leads about. My cynical side says it’s doubtful.
How can I do any work when a diary called Feminism in Star Trek is on the rec. list?
You are so right about Rand. And Uhura, of course, was a very strong character as well — besides breaking the “color barrier” as I recall. I didn’t know they’d originally planned the role for a white man.
I also love the Next Gen especially when the women get to play a strong part. The main characters are stereotyped — women get to be the ship’s counselor and the doctor — but there are a fair lot of powerful women admirals (admirals are usually evil or possessed by aliens on that show) and scientists, as well as regular crew members.
played by Michelle Forbes, hands down the best actor in any Star Trek series except for Deep Space Nine, where she would have had some real competition. In fact, “Major Kira” was written for her, but she turned it down.
Yes yes we love Ro at my house, Paul! And Kira too, though she gets a bit querulous.
Joan is/was a great role model for teens. She has a tendency to go off half-cocked when “God” tells her to do something, but learns how to think for herself. She isn’t afraid to stand out from the high school crowd, and doesn’t take guff from her boyfriend either. It’s a crying shame CBS cancelled that show.
for an interesting and well-written diary! I was never into Star Trek (I never could seem to get past Kirk’s ubiquitous fistfights with the other-worldlies <sigh>), but I can appreciate the points you make about its radical bent. Interesting.
On a side note regarding female-lead shows, I was dismayed about last season’s NBC show “Law & Order: Trial by Jury”. I got excited about it when I saw that the lead prosecutor (Bebe Neuwirth) and her assistant were going to be the women who anchored the show (wow, a crime/drama without male leads!), but then NBC buried the show on Friday nights–and then cancelled it completely in less than a season. Oh well. We might still have a ways to go.
Too bad she didn’t arrange for you to get kidnapped by the Borg as a child. You could be 7 of 9.
Talk about potent and powerful in one package. I really like Voyager. Chief engineer, captain, borg scientific leader, and empath all female. And whats-her-name the scary Cardasian (sp?) spy in the first two seasons was great also.
I never did like next generation. I though #1 was VILE. All the bad parts of Kirk with none of the charm or positive characters. Maybe he was Bad Kirk in disguise. I hated the counselor. Ohhhhh. A girrrrl. She has feeeelings. And that hair things. Yikes.
Well, actually, Majel Lee Hudec, at the time. She took up the name “Majel Barret” after the first pilot. And married Roddenberry in 1969.
BTW, “Star Trek” was the only TV show that Martin Luther King allowed his children to watch.
A pint of Romulan Ale to the firt person to identify her.
oops, “first” and also should mention this is not a Trekker, but from an different show.
Alas Tasha Yar, to have met such a cruel fate!
I’ve never actually tasted Romulan Ale. Can I have it chilled?
That is, it certainly looks like Denise Crosby, who plays Tasha. Is it someone else?
Major Carter from Stargate?
Maj. Sam Carter
I googled Maj. Sam Carter and I see who you mean. There is a resemblance between the two! <sour grapes> I bet Romulan ale is awfully bitter anyway.
Sam Carter it is!
Fascinating. If you liked the original series for this, you’ll love The Next Generation. As a doctor, and a single woman with a child, Dr. Beverly Crusher was a role model for many girls. Tasha Yar was the head of security.
And Counsellor Troi was responsible for the psychological well-being of the ship—everyone, including the Captain, listened to her advice. Marina Sirtis (who played Troi) said that by then, young women had lots of role models of women who were as violent as men. She wanted to be a role model for solving problems without violence, for being conscious and caring, a female Picard.
a 4 for use of Fascinating.
I highly recommend the original Avengers series, all available on DVD, starring Diana Rigg as Emma Peel. This show was on around the same time as the first Star Trek. Talk about a female role model!
I was a pre-teen then, and I still want to be like Mrs. Peel. She was beautiful and had a great wardrobe, yes, but she was extremely intelligent—in fact they often made that a major plot point—and she could kick the &^%$#$# out of the bad guys any time. She was clearly the equal, if not superior, of the male lead, who was not in the least threatened by that, and although he rescued her from the bad guys a number of times (they did seem to like to tie her up a lot) she often rescued him from the bad guys as well. They were truly a team.
I am still trying to interest my 10 and 12 year old girls in this show. They can’t deal with the black & white episodes, but I’m going to try them again on the colour ones. They are more interested in sappy Disney Channel girls and are way too interested in pop culture stuff to suit me. So I keep trying, and good for you, SpaceLogic, for being so perceptive. I hope my girls get a clue too.
Sounds promising. I’ll have to look it up.
This show has very interesting female characters. There’s a post about this at Our Word.
I had utterly forgotten BSG! I actually have seen the mini-series and first episode. I’m a bit concerned that Starbuck’ll end up paired off with Apollo, because even the actors seem to think that, but for the time being….
On topic: of skirts, the miniskirt was “invented” in 1965 or so, and when Star Trek started in 1966, it was a “liberated” style, part of the youth culture.
And since Star Trek threads are so rare these days, allow me to point you to a progressive Star Trek and sci-fi blog:
http://soulofstartrek.blogspot.com
Thanks for the link. I’ve bookmarked for future reading.
I didn’t know, or at least remember, about the mini-skirt. I’m used to thinking of it as almost degrading, so I’m glad that was mentioned. Makes me feel more comfortable with the Trek women’s uniforms, which were a bit of a roadblock.
You’re welcome. Here’s the page on Soul of Star Trek that has some 1960s context for the original series:
http://soulofstartrek.blogspot.com/2005_06_05_soulofstartrek_archive.html
Also in the Site Contents of that blog ( currently after the War of Worlds review) there’s a link to a piece on women and Star Trek you might find interesting.
Another interesting observation – female stars in Hollywood tend to be very young, and tend to be paired romantically with young male leads or old male leads. Pretty much the only time you see an older female star is in a comedy role. And you rarely, if ever, see an older female star paired with a younger male star in anything but a comedic situation.
There are exceptions, but…
Great exceptions like “Harold and Maude” a movie from way back. I recommend it highly. It has some comedic parts, but is really philosophical.
That’s a very good point. I wonder why it’s so true?
It reinforces one of the things another poster observed above. Men in our society have power mostly when they’re old, but sometimes when they’re young. Women really only have power in our society when they’re young and attractive. Or at least, that’s the way it used to be. And since Hollywood is, despite its image, run by conservative old men, guess what message they choose to propagate?
“Girls like men like us.” of course.”
Strong Spy Women
Mrs.Emma Peel-Avengers
?- La Feme Nikita
Sydney Barstrow-Alias
? all the ladies on-Mission Impossible (Television Version)
Science Fiction Women
Princess Leia-Star Wars (Ep 4-6)
Seven of Nine-Star Trek
Can’t think of any more. Cheers
I’m supposed to be going to bed, having a computer curfew, and there are far too many responses for me to respond to now, but I thought I’d address the Princess Leia point because I’m honestly puzzled. How does she fit in?
My interpretation, based on the SW films, was that Han sexually harasses her in a way that merits a stern kick in the nuts. She puts up some verbal resistance, but submits meekly. I was sickened, because in other respects she was strong, but there it seemed clear that Lucas considered Han’s behaviour justified and not inappropriate. I was disturbed by this and by the fact that nobody I talked to had an issue with it. Are we seeing the same films?
Hehehe, you sure got quite a welcome here, huh? Looks like Star Trek topics are always going to be hits here. Thx for a great diary and ensuing discussion.
Of course, I think making Luke and Leia siblings was a cop-out to avoid any kind of messy love triangle thing in what was basically a kids’ action movie, but that’s another story…
I thought the dialogue made it pretty clear that she was in love with Han and denying it, and therefore he was justified in his behaviour because “she liked it, really.” Interesting.
I think that may be a good example. Han is, in the movies, very much Not a Nice Person. He’s supposed to be crude, offensive, self-interested, and violent. His relationship with Leia – who’s idealistic, cultured, empathic, and charitable – changes him over the course of the trilogy. Leia puts up with his behaviour precisely because she wants to reform him.
Leia does eventually become more meek and passive, but that’s because Lucas is not good at writing. I thought Zahn’s novel trilogy handled both characters much better.
Okay, I’m a little skiffy nutters, but here goes:
Captain Janeway, Seven of Nine (Voyager) — I loved how we saw a tall, sexy woman who missed all the pretty-girl socialization is so intimidating to everyone
Roslin, Starbuck, Boomer (Battlestar Galactica)
Samantha Carter (SG1)
Ivanova, Talia, Delenn (B5)
Ripley (Alien)
Vasquez, Newt (Aliens)
Sarah Connor (Terminator movies, especially T2)
Leia — She promised so much, and she was tough. But after seeing the prequels, with no strong women (Amidala is a mope), she seems downright powerful for that universe. It’s like Lucas himself went back in time, not just the movie timeline. Did you notice that the only female jedi knight wore a genie harem outfit? A bare midriff for guys to focus on when she gets shot in the back.
I didn’t really care for The Next Generation. Guinan was interesting, Ro Laren was exciting, but the show was just so BORING! It was all like role-playing for therapy.
I confess I grew up wanting to be Yeoman Rand. But then I wanted to be Samantha in Bewitched and Nanny in Nanny and the Professor. They all seem so dated now, so … conventional. I guess that dates me. Ouch!
where the best tv had to offer was Sky King’s niece Penny.
Fortunately, I was seriously horse crazy. The only thing I was interested in was riding Rocket (the horse on Spin and Marty — talk about being dated!).