Separation of Church & State-It's In The Bible, Stupid!

Luke 20:25:

“And he [Jesus] said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar’s, and unto God the things which be God’s.

God: Church

Caeser: State

Pretty simple, no?

So WHAT THE FUCK IS THE PROBLEM?????
Let’s get serious, folks. When it comes to the “religious right,” there is no there there. Pat Robertson calling for the assassination of Hugo Chavez was not an abberation. It was totally typical.

They aren’t just anti-American. Everything they stand for is fundamentally anti-Christian. Luke 20:25 goes right to the heart of it.

Here’s the larger context:

19 And the chief priests and the scribes the same hour sought to lay hands on him; and they feared the people: for they perceived that he had spoken this parable against them.

20 And they watched him, and sent forth spies, which should feign themselves just men, that they might take hold of his words, that so they might deliver him unto the power and authority of the governor.

21 And they asked him, saying, Master, we know that thou sayest and teachest rightly, neither acceptest thou the person of any, but teachest the way of God truly:

22 Is it lawful for us to give tribute unto Caesar, or no?

23 But he perceived their craftiness, and said unto them, Why tempt ye me?

24 Shew me a penny. Whose image and superscription hath it? They answered and said, Caesar’s.

25 And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar’s, and unto God the things which be God’s.

26 And they could not take hold of his words before the people: and they marvelled at his answer, and held their peace.

That only makes the point deeper, now, doesn’t it? Since (A) the conflation of church and state is precisely how the spiritually bankrupt attempt to crush the spiritual truth, and (B) Jesus thwarts them by invoking separation of church and state.

Now, I ask you: Who is the anti-Christ?

5 Comments

Egarwaen on August 28, 2005 at 6:58 pm

The individual quote often gets used to prove that “God owns everything, so Caesar gets nothing, so the Church should be in charge”. But in context, it’s obvious that Jesus was trying to say that God does not concern itself with the mundane and material, but with higher considerations of the mind and soul. It’s not just separation of Church and State, but separation of Church and a lot of other things. Thinking about it, it seems to refute the entirety of the religious right’s dogma, doesn’t it?

That Jesus fellow was one sharp cookie.

eodell on August 29, 2005 at 1:06 am

While I tend to think that Christianity’s otherworldliness is one of its worst features, it is a pretty obvious feature of the religion, and one wonders why fundamentalists never seem to notice something so… fundamental.

Then again, the strain of religiousity that became the modern, corrupt, intrusive hypermoralism of modern evangelical Christianity started among the Puritans as a call to self-criticism. The idea, of course, was that as a race of sinners, we each have enough sinfulness of our own that if one is spending a lot of time worry about the morals of other people, one is neglecting one’s own festering moral sores. I’m not sure that’s an entirely healthy outlook, either, but if you take it seriously, you’re not a danger to anyone but yourself.

When George Bush famously failed to come up with a single mistake he had made as president when asked during the presidential debates, he was a perfect poster boy for modern evangelical thought. It was not hard to imagine him at the pearly gates, with St. Peter looking at his book, saying, “Well, we have records of lots of your mistakes, George.”

But then, if these people really believed in Hell, they wouldn’t act the way they do, now would they?
- Paul Rosenberg on August 29, 2005 at 9:26 am
  
  Our problem is that we make these sorts of comments sarcastically, but they are the iceberg tips of serious theological arguments.
  
  Go tell it on the mountain
  (Traditional)
  
  Go tell it on the mountain,
  Over the hill and everywhere
  Go tell it on the mountain
  To let my people go.
  
  Who’s that yonder dressed in red?
  (Let my people go)
  Must be the children that Moses led.
  (Let my people go)
  
  Go tell it on the mountain,
  Over the hill and everywhere
  Go tell it on the mountain
  To let my people go.
  
  Who’s that yonder dressed in white?
  (Let my people go)
  Must be the children of the Israelite.
  (Let my people go)
  
  Go tell it on the mountain,
  Over the hill and everywhere
  Go tell it on the mountain
  To let my people go.
  
  Who’s that yonder dressed in black?
  (Let my people go)
  Must be the hypocrites turning back.
  (Let my people go)
  
  Go tell it on the mountain,
  Over the hill and everywhere
  Go tell it on the mountain
  To let my people go.

roseeriter on August 29, 2005 at 4:53 am

Then they won’t have anything to distort and will be forced to think. So many hide behind the bible etc.,

Separation of church and state is just good common sense. Period.

Can you imagine how THEY would react if we held a bible burning rally? Are there any laws against it?

on August 29, 2005 at 10:40 am

What would Jesus think of his “church” today? Its the richest corporation in the world, isnt it?

I believe the church not the state is the single biggest reason why He refuses to return, when we need him so desperately.

Hell, I say He casts Osama, Roberston, Bush, Saddam, Pope Conehead the Ridiculous, et al, all into the lake of fire.

In fact, Jesus had no “church.” He was a Jew to the end of his days, albeit a rebellious one.

Egarwaen on August 28, 2005 at 6:58 pm

The individual quote often gets used to prove that “God owns everything, so Caesar gets nothing, so the Church should be in charge”. But in context, it’s obvious that Jesus was trying to say that God does not concern itself with the mundane and material, but with higher considerations of the mind and soul. It’s not just separation of Church and State, but separation of Church and a lot of other things. Thinking about it, it seems to refute the entirety of the religious right’s dogma, doesn’t it?

That Jesus fellow was one sharp cookie.
- eodell on August 29, 2005 at 1:06 am
  
  While I tend to think that Christianity’s otherworldliness is one of its worst features, it is a pretty obvious feature of the religion, and one wonders why fundamentalists never seem to notice something so… fundamental.
  
  Then again, the strain of religiousity that became the modern, corrupt, intrusive hypermoralism of modern evangelical Christianity started among the Puritans as a call to self-criticism. The idea, of course, was that as a race of sinners, we each have enough sinfulness of our own that if one is spending a lot of time worry about the morals of other people, one is neglecting one’s own festering moral sores. I’m not sure that’s an entirely healthy outlook, either, but if you take it seriously, you’re not a danger to anyone but yourself.
  
  When George Bush famously failed to come up with a single mistake he had made as president when asked during the presidential debates, he was a perfect poster boy for modern evangelical thought. It was not hard to imagine him at the pearly gates, with St. Peter looking at his book, saying, “Well, we have records of lots of your mistakes, George.”
  
  But then, if these people really believed in Hell, they wouldn’t act the way they do, now would they?
  - Paul Rosenberg on August 29, 2005 at 9:26 am
    
    Our problem is that we make these sorts of comments sarcastically, but they are the iceberg tips of serious theological arguments.
    
    Go tell it on the mountain
    (Traditional)
    
    Go tell it on the mountain,
    Over the hill and everywhere
    Go tell it on the mountain
    To let my people go.
    
    Who’s that yonder dressed in red?
    (Let my people go)
    Must be the children that Moses led.
    (Let my people go)
    
    Go tell it on the mountain,
    Over the hill and everywhere
    Go tell it on the mountain
    To let my people go.
    
    Who’s that yonder dressed in white?
    (Let my people go)
    Must be the children of the Israelite.
    (Let my people go)
    
    Go tell it on the mountain,
    Over the hill and everywhere
    Go tell it on the mountain
    To let my people go.
    
    Who’s that yonder dressed in black?
    (Let my people go)
    Must be the hypocrites turning back.
    (Let my people go)
    
    Go tell it on the mountain,
    Over the hill and everywhere
    Go tell it on the mountain
    To let my people go.
roseeriter on August 29, 2005 at 4:53 am

Then they won’t have anything to distort and will be forced to think. So many hide behind the bible etc.,

Separation of church and state is just good common sense. Period.

Can you imagine how THEY would react if we held a bible burning rally? Are there any laws against it?
on August 29, 2005 at 10:40 am

What would Jesus think of his “church” today? Its the richest corporation in the world, isnt it?

I believe the church not the state is the single biggest reason why He refuses to return, when we need him so desperately.

Hell, I say He casts Osama, Roberston, Bush, Saddam, Pope Conehead the Ridiculous, et al, all into the lake of fire.

In fact, Jesus had no “church.” He was a Jew to the end of his days, albeit a rebellious one.

Separation of Church & State–It’s In The Bible, Stupid!

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Paul Rosenberg

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