Remember this:
by kos
Mon
Aug 22nd, 2005 at 01:18:42 PDT
Two more weeks, folks, before we take them on, head on.
No calls for a truce will be brooked. The DLC has used those pauses in the past to bide their time between offensives. Appeals to party unity will fall on deaf ears (it’s summer of a non-election year, the perfect time to sort out internal disagreements).
We need to make the DLC radioactive. And we will. With everyone’s help, we really can. Stay tuned.
Then there was this:
“KATRINA SPARES THE DLC”
I’ve laid off the DLC for the time being. The Katrina disaster has not only made this sort of intra-party fight a bit counterproductive at the moment, but it has refocused the allies and media I was going to engage in the campaign to the more important task of getting to the bottom of the disaster on the gulf coast.
The window has closed for now.
by kos on Wed Sep 14th, 2005 at 21:44:09 PDT
Boy that was a close call for the DLC… but hey.. was it really???
Well whaddya know … the DLC Hack and all their DLC hackery glory are Front Paged on DailyKos as I live and breath.
Well let’s see what the DLC has to say that it deserves front page billing. Here are a few salient point that caught my eye:
While there is plenty of blame to go around in the public mind, Republicans have done an excellent job of painting this as a failure of state and local government. While the vast majority of Americans say all levels of government failed, the numbers are slightly higher and the intensity is greater among those who see the mistakes of Katrina as a failure of state and local government.
So without playing the blame game… the DLC “highlights” the blame is on the state and local government.
Most Americans reject interpretations of the federal government’s failure as being influenced by the race of the victims. But the racial dynamic could be obscuring a broader economic interpretation, not tested in any of these surveys, in which the Bush administration’s decision to award new contracts to Halliburton while thousands of victims were still stranded and fighting for their lives reveals their unwavering commitment to the interests of their corporate supporters over ordinary Americans of all stripes.
Most Americans (and the entire world) are not blind saw clearly that race influenced the rescue efforts.
It is still too early to fully measure it, but Katrina seems to be having an impact on attitudes toward Iraq. In my memo, I note that no one has asked the direct trade-off between rebuilding the Gulf Coast and rebuilding Iraq. But the fine folks at NBC, whose NBC/Wall St. Journal poll was released after the memo was written, pointed out to me that they had in fact asked that question (but also offered `both’ as an option), and the results are pretty dramatic – 60% say rebuilding the Gulf Coast should be our higher priority, while 5% say rebuilding Iraq and establishing a democratic government there is the top priority and 34% opt for both. In the same poll, reducing spending on the war in Iraq is far and away the top choice for actions that should be taken to pay for hurricane relief efforts.
Funny, that seemed to be on the tip of everyone’s tongue…kinda even remember hearing Mayor Nagin through his tears talk about this…
Yup, the same GOP Talking Point spewing DLC hacks they always were. And they wonder why “single issues” folks are holding on dearly to their beliefs…
Geez, what part of “we don’t trust you” with our “pet issues” don’t they get?
You know Parker I agree with alot of things you have said but quite frankly, if I want to read a Kos diary I will go over there. I strongly feel if you have a beef with Kos then tell him. I for one am sick of the Kos bashing. I don’t give a shit what Kos does or doesn’t do. There are enough things to be pissed about and to be worried about and to be active about without be destracted with what one blogger has to say. Kos is just a kid with a blog.
There is no difference in bashing Kos than bashing CNN or WaPo. He holds too much influence for it not to be counteracted.
When Russert sets up certain guest to fail and molly coddles others we call them on it.
That is all…and as far as Kos-Bashing who don’t they bash?
Hey, bash away. All I am saying is why are you not doing it to Kos’ face/blog?
Uh… they have rulz against that kinda thing… it is called banning.
Kos tried to confront me over on MYDD he made up a lie… and when he was called out he ran away.
So what? You get banned? Is this a huge deal?
NO…
I was asked why I was not posting there.
there is an easy way around that. join up again with a new user name.
you were worried ABOUT getting banned — my bad!
From your interchange with BooMan, now I can’t tell.
Yes, awhile ago…in fact I had TU status at the time… but had a run in with a FP.
Maybe you need to explain this to BooMan? I don;’t understand why he’s chastising you for not cross-posting if he knows you were banned…does he know this?
Boo was just reminding what the rulz are.
I have to agree with Lee here, unlike Russert or CNN, you have the opportunity to tell him to his “face” (as it were), why not take advantage of that?
It’s the appearance of “sneaking around” that gets the possee in a rage and starting a bitch-fest over here.
Oh, and, I am interested in your opinion about how much influence and over who and what that Markos and/or dKos actually has.
little or non as I see it. kos is just a vessel that they use until they no longer have a use for him. Thus, my who cares about Kos line. He really is only important to his worshippers.
That last question was meant for Parker, sorry ’bout that! 😉
I agree that he is not well known… now.
But the NDN “think tank” is trying to build him up in the national press, …ie commissioning a report to say how big and great DK is and this kind of promotion…there was even an interview in Playboy.
THe point is this is the time to act against the DLC agenda not in 2006… or even 2008. We just saw the Roberts was already confirmed months ago when LIEberman pulled off the filibuster debacle… the hearings are just going through the motions.
This is why the Democratic leadership took such a fit with DEAN… it had already been decided that it was Kerry’s turn… hence the convention in Boston.
This is the time to scream and shout… ie before the ink dries…
I understand your point. Roberts is a shoe in because we lost in 2004. We do not hold a majority. What we need to work on is regaining power in at least one of the houses. I think we can take both in ’06 but it will take alot of cooperation and alot of campaigning and money and street pounding. THAT is where are energy is needed most. IMHO
No Roberts is a shoe in because Reid allowed LIEberman and his embedded Republican cronies…handicap the party be neutering the filibuster. Then there were calls from the leadership… to wait…and keep the powder dry until September… I am still waiting.
Believe me, I understand your frustration. I just finally received not five minutes ago responses from my two senators, Feinstein and Boxer basically saying they are with holding judgement until they hear all the testimony. I wrote them two weeks ago. Is the system broken? Yes. Can we do anything about it? I hope so. Let them have Kos. As I see it, judged by the immaturity of alot of the commentors over there, I would be surprised if these kids even bother to vote, let alone work for a campaign. They are too busy posting their great words of wisdom online…lol!
Let them have Kos.
I don’t want Kos. I want an opposing view point.
This is what that Democrats are doing…letting everything slide…
But more to the point… why this is important:
Because now you are seeing the open convergence of the DLC with the NDN on a on a “Democratic” megaphone blog that get over 1 million hits aday. I’d say that is a bit more than just “Kos-bashing”… the root of any so-called Kos bashing is… his perpetuation of the DLC agenda.
Al From made it clear he wanted rid of abortion, gays and anti-war protestors. I couldn’t give a shit personally about Kos but if he is trying to play a mojor role in defining this party… well I want to be heard also…and so should you.
I don’t particulary like ANYONE telling me what I should or shouldn’t do I guess. My first instinct was to not say anything on this thread. Guess I should have paid attention to my gut.
Look Parker, we all have our own ways of working to get our country back. Let’s do what we can to work together and agree to disagree where we don’t see eye to eye.
I want to be heard also…and so should you.
I do not think this was a demand.
1. It appears that the DLC and/or the NDN:
(a) do not have grassroots support, and campaign organization, or netroots.
(b) have huge cash/donations/finances.
(c) have a disproportionate amount of power/influence over (i) the Democratic Party
(ii) the message
(iii) nomination process
Is it because Katrina or another reason?
Please correct my observations, if I am wrong. Thanks.
How can anyone do this, when they will likely get banned. I am just for ditching him in favor of booman. I think he is kind of a wasted effort primarily because of the people he has allowed to run the place. Kos can handle the competition.
Well this is turning out to be a pleasant thread.
Anyway, I know this will be really unpopular, but I like Democracy Corps a lot. They are very politically honest, and seem to be one of the few sections of the democratic coalition that doesn’t believe that its still 1960.
They have been doing this shit for awhile… so what is the answer… throw the gays overboard
And see, as an indy this is one of the things about organizing with Democrats that makes me lose my fucking mind. I want to scream at them: Look, the Republicans are going to smear you as queer-lovers no matter what you do, and since queer equality is, you know, actually the right fucking thing to do, why not just, you know, ACTUALLY TRY SUPPORTING IT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.
Arrgghhh! Alright, it’s beer-thirty.
If Kos was truly and honestly going to fight the DLC I’d be the first one in his corner. But instead he rolled out this Trojan horse bashing “special interest” groups and pet issues… like that was the great cure-all for the party… but in reality it is what the DLC has been doing since 1992.
This main point of this dairy is the DLC crap that is the front page.
That is what this diary is about…
for a great suggestion, and reminding me what time it was. [clink] Cheers!
I know the report your refering to. DC was not advising against supporting gay marriage. They were saying the democrats need to be more articulate and up front with their beleifs. I agree with that.
Watch it somehow get added to the Democratic strategy… just like anti-abortion, just like anti-war. Carville makes shit up to satisfy Al From’s “strategery”
Why is there such an effort to discourage commentary on politically important blogs, including dkos, or rather, is posting on other “liberal” blogs not allowed here?
I’m wondering whose feelings we are trying to avoid hurting? I would think that the “politics” of a politically important liberal blog would be an open topic on this site, and an important one.
These are genuine questions, and I’m just wondering.
I’m also going to pimp here for my diary on supplies still not getting into New Orleans for the 1000’s still left there. Please help me get some attention for it, as I am in touch with and applying pressure on the governor’s office here on this matter.
I wouldn’t give 2 thoughts about Kos. He’s imploding over the past few days – first with his Garrison Keillor screed and today with Armando’s “If you don’t vote for Ferrer in NYC, you are a racist” post.
They are pissing off a lot of old-timers and I think that while people will still go to dKos for the other voices, Kos and Armando are becoming increasingly irrelevant.
Now, if only Hunter would post here…
As I said this is not about Kos personally it is about the perpetuation of the DLC agenda.
When you see things like this:
Dailykos Is As Large As The Entire Conservative Blogosphere
He is no longer just a guy with a blog…
Well help Booman be that voice. Instead of carping on what Kos is doing/saying, help us be a unique voice for the disenfranchised within the Democratic party. Give people a reason to leave dKos altogether.
Oh and Chris Bowers sucks at Kos’ teat, so I would take what he says with a grain of salt.
This main point of this dairy is the DLC crap that is on the front page.
* it was the state and local gov’t fault
* it was not racist
* resources should not be pulled from Iraq
This is why I hate the DLC because the are just a bunch of embedded Republicans.
Then talk about the DLC and take out the superfluous reference to Kos’ post at the top. Regardless of what Kos puts on his frontpage, the DLC will still get its message out one way or another.
I edited the rude stuff… but he is going to openly call for a fatwa… then he is fair game
one of the diary police posted. They are seriously beginning to suck because of this shit.
It is no longer there
I think the link just didn’t work. Here it is again.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/16/172319/224
He is a sociopath…
I just finished a diary along these lines on NDN and the DLC. It also establishes a clear pattern of abusing posters critical of the ndn and the dlc at dailykos.
Don’t mean to pimp but I am not as familiar to the readers here as you.
I wrote before also on the NDN
Why do we give up so easy?
I am have difficulty to understand this. These past weeks Democrats were handed a perfect storm to take down this administration… and we didn’t want to get our hands dirty. Meanwhile, the GOP blamed everyone and their mother and now we have “Democracy Corp” telling us that it was not Bush’s fault.
So tell me when is the right time to fight?
is this cross-posted? If not it is a clear violation of the rules and you know it.
This is on the DLC strategy
no it is not. It is accusing Kos of being a member of the DLC. And a hypocrite, etc. etc.
I asked for a diary explaining why his association with the NDN should be considered de facto evidence that he is lying when he says he hates the DLC.
Keeping his powder dry post-Katrina is evidence of nothing.
I don’t want shit like this at the site. If you think he is a lying hack then post it there.
I edited it.
c’mon.
This is like going into the Roberts hearings with no filibuster.
Why those who are in the RIGHT feel the need to handicap themselves in the face of the opposition is baffling? While those in the wrong take every opportunity to bask in their hatefulness.
I’m really curious as to what you see as hateful in that thread — that is a bunch of fucking around being goofy. Wrong link?
To repost someone’s goodbye diary just to make fun of it… not only is it hateful… it is sick.
Yes, I agree — DHinMI is completely drunk with the power afforded him/her/it….
With everything going on currently, their own fucking rules about duplicate or “unacceptable” diaries — thgat is a total waste of space…hang on, gotta go post something.
Those same posters bann anyone that calls them out on anything. It isn’t just goofyness in my view. It is elitist garbage.
Pure Freeper mentality… and sadly it works.
It is subtle the the message is loud and clear “You are either with us, or against us”… that act had all the vicousness of digging up a grave and pissing on the dead body.
about Vulcan mind melds vis a vis GW…am I missing something?
I clicked on the link and that’s where I went — if it is indeed the thread that you liken to “pissing on a dead body” could you point to some specifics?
I’m not trying to be an asshole, Parker, really, I just don’t get this particular thing!
What is there to get?
An ex-front pager reposted a dairy of a former community member that left because he felt that the community there was too mean spirited. It was only reposted to be mocked.
In the comments someone links to another good bye diary… adn this is the reply:
We lay around indolent, but a jackal comes and reports some wounded animal, and we all scamper over to gnaw on the carcass of the not-even-dead-yet victim.
I’d say that was an acurate description… it is a Blood-sport to them.
I was reading this thread for some reason….
onegiashimasu [bows]
LMAO… ok
now I see the confusion
This Southern Democrat will still be around when you all get your act together and decide that we do have a common enemy and it’s not Kos or the DLC for that matter.
Unfortunately, I can’t speak for my fellow Southern Democrats who are getting impatient with the conventional wisdom Gods that are blue-state Dems.
If you want people to follow…tell us why we should. We don’t want to hear that you are smarter than Kos or Kos is a liar, blah blah. TELL US WHY WE SHOULD FOLLOW AND WHAT WE SHOULD DO! I’m tired of this whiney crap from all sides.
Leaders build coalitions. They don’t seek to divide us or purify us. They ask that we put aside our differences to work for a greater good. Or we can continue to fight amongst ourselves while the GOP rapes our country and bankrupts my one month old child’s future.
I lost my TU status because at Daily Kos because I haven’t had the time or the energy to contribute like I would like…it would seem that I haven’t missed much.
Booman and My Left Wing became a quiet refuge
(to lurk) from the frenzy that is waiting for a thread to load and watching diaries scroll into oblivion. Then I stumble into this…same ole same ole…
Why is the DLC not my enemy? They want to:
How is the DLC my ally?
Utter bullshit…
They ask that we put aside our differences to work for a greater good.
——–
Reform is NOT about getting rid of special interest groups or even having them to suppress their issues for the “greater good” (ie as defined by Al From)…
It is about creating a common value within all of these interest groups. Reform must be about reframing liberal and progressive values and policies into a coherent whole: what affirmative action has to do with progressive taxation, what abortion has to do with affirmative action, what environmentalism has to do with feminism, what labor has to do with education etc.
Democrats must reweave the safety net so that those who walk the straight and narrow path, who defend this country in battle, who work, who pay taxes… will not be left to drown if they slip and fall.
We haven’t even gotten to the point of identifying friend from foe.
As Egarwaen rightly asks…Why is the DLC not my enemy?
I am also sick of this Kos-bashing frame. Why are people accused of Russert-bashing or Blitzer-bashing? This is the same shit the GOP uses to control the Dem party. Why did Gore not speak to reporters in NOLA…. because he was afraid of being accused by the Republicans of politicizing his recue mission… Whereas, Frist came into town with cameras ablazing. How many times have I seen Frist administering aid and sympathy to the poor…. COUNTLESS.
So call it whiny, Kos-bashing…whatever…I truly don’t give a shit. I will not handicap myself because of being afraid of what the opposition might say.
Kos and his DLC/NDN buddies are determined to remove the pillars that uphold and protect women’s rights, gay right’s and the peace movement…for now next time I am sure they will move on to labor, Blacks and environmentalists
can scribble what ever they want in faux outrage on the Roberts hearings but the root of this ideology-less, issue-less-ness is to weaken the base… while on the other hand they promote IDEOLOGICAL AND GOP ISSUE ORIENTED canididates like Casey an anti-choice wingnut.
in fact when you have a STRONG leader this happens naturally. It is only in the case of weak leadership… that restrictions and limitations are imposed. As in the case of CASEY he is weak therefore the leadership calls for weakening of issues and ideologies from the base instead of just finding a more suitable and appropriate candidate.
On the other hand in the case of Dean there was never any mention of suppression and oppression of issues and ideologies. In fact, there was an intrensic sharing and learning from each other since many where newbies.
For instance the labor guys and gals like SEIU opened all of our eyes to the world of labor. I remember one distinct blog entry from a feminist who was driving home and saw a picket line infront of a groecery store and said to herself “Those are my people” and she pulled over and asked how she could be of help. She admitted that before the Dean campaign picket lines and unions where invisible to her… now as an active Democrat they became “My people”.
This is what the faux notion of “Oppression for the Greater Good” ….keeps everyone invisible…
I too learned alot and cheered whenever I saw a picture of a beefy union guy standing next to gays, women, peirced kids nd grandmother at a rally. It was beautiful and Dean did not have to declare that they MUST get along nor did he ever say that in order to win… he would suppress the issues of certain groups…
That is why the DLC folks aimed both barrels at Dean… now they are in the process of taking over the blogosphere and spewing that same “SYFPH” crap…
Ah well, Parker, seems you’re getting some discouraging responses. Too bad, really.
I think most of the blogs have identified that a politician like Lieberman who uses his title as a “Democrat” to endorse all sorts of anti-Democratic B.S. spouted by the Republicans is bad for the party.
Then there are those who are certain the Republican moneymen have been donating through the DLC to Democratic politicians to get a twofer — votes to help pass crap like CAFTA, and cover for the egregious Republican abuses like the Bankruptcy bill.
Now, people with those opinions have been welcomed here. They aren’t thought of as kooks or crazies, they’re normally regarded as clear-thinking and sane.
So, when a blog billing itself as both the largest Left blog in the universe and as the voice of the entire netroots starts selling out the ideals of the party…
… why exactly are we supposed to sit in our little corner of blogdom and ignore it?
I know some folks here have friends who happen to be hip-deep in this crap over there, but sheesh… You can have Republican friends too without blindly supporting their politics just because they are “good people”. If they’re really your friends, you might even have the guts to tell them when you think they’re heading down the wrong path.
Here’s the straight scoop, or as some other place likes to frame it, the “reality based” view:
Just because Joe Lieberman is in the Democratic Party doesn’t mean Russ Feingold doesn’t have a voice. But if a big outside power starts backing dear ol’ Joe, to get Joe more exposure and power, and if this group and Joe turn around and claim they now speak for the entire left blogosphere, thereby marginalizing the rest of as “far left”, well, doncha suppose this is gonna reduce the non-Lieberman voices in the political arena — at least in the media that still dictates what the ‘important’ issue of the day is in politics?
Just a thought. A “duh” thought.
But that’s okay, just ignore it. Move along. Enjoy your nice blog-corner. Pay no attention to what else is happening out there in Blogland.
(and the rule about complaining about dKos over on dKos makes sense if you’re talking about particular events, the personalities involved, or whatever is truly a parochial concern — a diary, a front-pager, an event. But, if you’re talking about the alliances, objectives, goals, and strategies of dKos or any other major player (NDN?) in our fledgling grassroots online politics… why the hell wouldn’t that be an appropriate topic for here? — please don’t tell me its because it embarrasses us all, or because we could instead take it to ‘them’ directly. When someone tries to barter away your rights you don’t take it to them, you take it to your community first.)
And then there’s the problem of not being able to post over there if you’ve been banned. What, you’re supposed to not criticize kos here if he bans you there? Uh-huh. That’ll work so well.
Well you just condensed all of my “Kos-bashing” diaries in a nutshell.
Kos is being set up to be the voice of this vast left wing megaphone and he is deep in the pockets of LIEberman and Al From.
This is the time to challenge “who speaks for whom” not in 2006 or 2008 when this shit will already be casted in stone.
I am consistent… I never believed for one moment that there was an once of difference between the DLC and the NDN.
And the so called battle of the centrist was a complete farce…kinda like the Roberts hearings.
you’re getting some discouraging responses
Not really, I think people here think first then react. Whereas over there they just react…as seen in Boo’s last cross post. I do this often. I throw out an idea to the community and then let it ripen of it’s own accord. Like my diary on Internally displaced persons it was not a best seller … but I think it made people think, and I have seen that information sited on other blogs and threads.
I think in a few weeks more people will have an AHaaa! moment and come to the same conclusions you just wrote. Many already are on the smaller blogs. I will continue to inform about Kos’s blog because at the end of the day he is advocating getting rid of the pillars that protect women, gays and the peace movement… no matter how much “partisan” shit it is wrapped in.