In reading political blogs the last few days, and during the past 6 months, there has been a distrubing trend. There are some sites that are willing to ‘temporarily’ sacrifice the goals for some groups of people – people of color, women, gays and lesbians, and environmentalists, to name of few. This is not a tirade and not a political diary. This is an analysis of what it means to be marginalized or trivialized….as part of those groups.
The beginning is to think about how the phrases we use are incorporated into this marginalization. I’m only going to pick a few and then work through their history – from my perspective only. Any alternative histories of these phrases are welcome.
Right to Life – marginalizes a woman’s reproductive rights
Originally:
A man’s property – her husband – and his decisions are supreme
Children are a man’s property
Don’t ask, don’t tell- marginalizes GLBT
Originally:
Don’t speak until spoken to
Children should be seen and not heard
It’s a secret – don’t tell anyone (child molester / abuser)
A woman’s place is in the home / stay at home mom – marginalizes women that work
Originally:
Don’t speak until spoken to
Women should be seen and not heard
A man’s property – of her father’s home until her husband’s home
A woman without a man needs to work and is therefore inadequate
Women that work abandon their children
In the closest / out of the closet – marginalizes GLBT
Originally:
Don’t air your dirty laundry in public
Single issue groups – marginalizes any group that is non-conformist
Originally:
Don’t speak until spoken to
These items came to mind during a 5 minute walk to get coffee this morning….as the day and weekened progresses I’ll probably think of more. Perhaps it’s not necessary – there is a distinct pattern here. This pattern is dismissing the opinions of those that are not ‘the same’. It used to be openly applied to blacks in this country, and before that the Italians, and the Irish, and the Native Americans, and the list is endless. There has since been a burying beneath the polite veneer of society the open marginalization.
Questions to ponder
-If we suppress the discussion of the marginalized – isn’t it just more of the same but not open?
-If we marginalize aren’t we denigrating the beliefs of a few or many?
-If we denigrate – don’t we start to oppress – subtly at first and openly later?
History is full of marginalized individuals and groups that are subsequently abused or oppressed. Marginalize, trivialize, disenfranchise, and then oppression. This isn’t a political question, it is a humanist question.
In the interest of full disclosure:
-I was an abused child – told not to tell. This is a separate story of fighting against religious oppression of women and children.
-I am a woman that grew up without freedom of choice in reproductive rights.
-My best friend in high school had an illegal abortion. Fortunately for her it was with a doctor and safe – but an office procedure and hidden as something else.
-I filed discrimination charges in several employment positions in the 1970’s and 1980’s because of being a woman.
-My ex-husband turned violent and pulled a gun the night I left him – and he said “don’t tell”.
So….add your info…add your history of marginalizing comments….or just read and ponder what it means to the person in the next room or next house or down the street.
Cross posted at Village Blue and at MtnCerridwen.blogspot.com
This is meant to be a history of the marginalizing rather than the current political implications or current blogosphere brouhahah.
Please consider the phrases and where they come from…it was an interesting walk this morning!
THINK OF THE BIG TENT AND DON’T SPEAK UNTIL SPOKEN TO! We’re trying to win the votes of churchgoing wingnuts! We love NASCAR, stem cells, and Branson, Missouri!
Ooops, wrong website.
My bad, never mind.
Laughing because I posted a comment about diversity…somebody objected and rated it a 1. (The Kid Oakland ‘response to amen’ diary).
That wasn’t enough…since I check comments to see if I need to respond… I discovered that this joker had gone through my previous day’s comments…totally unrelated to the topic…and gave them all 1’s. Oops….stepped on somebody’s delicate little toes!
Damn I do love Booman Tribune! A couple of things to clear up over there….and then gone for good!
Yeah. Here, if your comment’s not liked, it generally simply isn’t rated.
Though it’s also impossible to distinguish this behaviour from users simply being too lazy to give your comment a rating today.
On the upside, it is excellent for plausible deniability, and ratings abuse is virtually non-existent. On the downside, it can make it hard to tell when you’ve really offended someone and when people are just bored.
Sorry to post at the top, but I came late to this diary and didn’t know if it would be seen at the bottom. I’m a newcomer here, so please let me know if this is out of line. I don’t have a lot of time to write right now or in general. But there was something that attracted me to this site even though I take no sides in the blogwars, etc. Maybe it was because people can write and comment and diaries like this. This is no politics, no blogwars, just history:
Male. From a white lower middle class/working class/whatever farm family in a depressed rural economy. Target of onging physical, sexual, emotional violence for 10-15 years. Primarily by father, at least the first two parts. Threatened to tell the cops but my mother warned me that if I did my father would be jailed and we’d lose the farm and all of us would be on the street. This kept me quiet for a couple of years while I kept enduring it. Finally I couldn’t take it any more and called social services in a larger city to see if there was a shelter. Only shelters in the state were for battered women, not male "children" or teenagers. Social services promised confidentiality, but called my local county social services anyway, who called my parents. My father lied and said I was a problem child and he couldn’t control me. County social services and the cops believed him. All males and my father was a good old boy even though poor. I was jailed for the weekend and then institutionalized. I told less than half the truth when questioned, because the rest made me feel defiled to say the least, also afraid if it got back to my father. Begged to be placed in foster home or anywhere else, but policy was family reunification. Psychiatrist was a good old boy who believed my father and diagnosed me with "oppositional defiant disorder", which has since been striken from DSM. They asked my mother but she just nodded her head to my father’s lies. Years later she said he pulled out a loaded gun and threatened to kill her if she didn’t. Finally escaped the family at age 17. Then he turned on my mother and she divorced him 2 years later. Still haven’t recovered and doubt that I ever will. But still alive and sane due to a few amazingly humane and decent people I’ve met over the years. Having a rough time in my life again at the moment, though.
Later went to college on scholarship where many people I sought solidarity with categorized me with the "oppressors" because I was a straight white male and seemed to be a "redneck" to boot, cuturally speaking. Including people who were affluent and connected, regardless of gender or color. So it comes from all sides. And I’ve never really "fit" anywhere, probably never will. I just get by, and place infinite value on those rare individuals who are somehow able to see through the BS that comes from every direction.
The only moral of this story is that the political categories used on almost all sides, including various factions of liberals and leftists, don’t even begin to capture the complexity and reality of human experience, and sometimes do violence to this reality themselves.
Thanks for listening.
The idea here is that ALL attitudes or words or actions that treat any of us with less than full dignity need to be worked on.
‘Redneck’ another one of those marginalizing words.
Someone who works and wears a shirt that allows the neck to be sunburned should be honored for their work…in construction or farm fields or wherever it may be. My grandparents were dairy farmers…lots of friends are construction workers… Bless everyone with a red neck…they build things and feed us.
Abuse is secret that is rampant…not too long ago I watched a documentary on abuse and rape among the Amish. And in that case the girl was not only the victim but punished for being the victim.
I am glad that you’ve made a big difference in your life with school and where you are now. I hope that you find strength to let go of the demons from your childhood. You are not alone…here’s my story…see the comments as to how many others there are. Send an email in my contact info if you want to talk more. http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/4/21/205014/778
Shine the light on the words being wrong, the abuse being hidden, and whether we are left, center, or right we all win.
I don’t have time to write any more right now, but thank you for your words and the spirit behind them.
And congratulations to you on your successes in getting to where you are today. Thanks for joining us and for having the courage to tell your story. I hope you will feel your “humaness” embraced here with all of us and that it will give you some small modicum of strength to keep on going. You are a valuable member of this community and bring a lot of perspective that we need to hear.
Thank you also, very much. Hopefully I’ll be able to contribute more in the future (that’s not just about my own life).
I’ve been thinking a lot lately about the term “single-issue”, actually, though I don’t necessarily know about the history or origins or what have you…
it is amazing to me how often the term gets applied, though, to really broad things like “women’s rights” or whatever. What’s “single issue” about that, anyway?
But I think that it’s based in a very standard social relationship between default and other — default = white upper-middle-class heterosexual male. Anyone not fitting that category is necessarily other and can be lumped into a single side category, hence their issues are sort of an aside, lumped in so that “equality for women” is on the same level as a little side issue as, say, the bankruptcy bill (which I pick on only for convenience).
And of course the default group is largely entirely unaware of this relationship, both because they don’t directly feel its effects and because it’s structural — meaning that they don’t feel that they’re contributing to it (“But I’m not sexist/homophobic/racist/whatever!”).
Copper coinage.
I love your idea of “default mode.” I had an exprerience this week where I realized once again that the default mode in our culture right now is that of white upper-middle class suburbanites. As someone who lives and works in an urban area – Katrina has really helped some lights go on for me about the importance of speaking up about the marginalization of our urban areas (kid oakland’s writing has been particularly helpful to me on this). I expect that those who live in rural areas often feel the same marginalization.
“Single-issue” is very much a term of abuse. It’s designed to marginalize a group by making it sound like their interests can be boiled down to one issue, which can than be thought of as trivial in relation to the vast multitude of issues that trouble wealthy heterosexual white males. Put the shoe on the other foot, however, and it really becomes very easy to label the interests of Bush and Cheney as “single-issue” interests. You’ll get a lot of blank stares and snickers when you try, but that doesn’t mean it ain’t true.
As a queer disabled woman who was also abused as a child, I’ve never lived outside of marginalization and cannot even imagine what that would feel like.
I occasionally try to start conversations at blogs like this about the various identity theories and cultural dynamics that perpetuate the sort of patriarchal hierarchy we have but often find that people don’t seem to have the first clue what I’m talking about — which is okay, because I can usually give a patient explanation — or worse, they refuse to accept that an experience to which they cannot relate is just as valid as the experiences they do understand. And that’s a brick wall.
In a gender theory diary I wrote earlier this summer, I touched on some of the answers I think apply to your “questions to ponder” but it didn’t seem to resonate with people here very much.
As a very liberal independent, I’m pretty frustrated at this point with the act of trying to organize politically with Democrats. No matter how much I contort myself to compromise with them and try to support their issues, I continue to get the sense that they consider my concerns to be disposable. And really, since I grew up getting the back of someone’s hand all the damn time, I’m not about to spend my adult life doing basically the same thing.
Lately I’ve kind-of faded into the background, back into observation mode, to wait and see if I can’t figure out something more useful to do.
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2005/6/17/154040/320
I’ve linked your diary here if you would like we’ll add it to the discussion. I recall the diary but I’m not much of theorist.
What I’ve done in my years of fighting for recognition…even in liberal CA…is keep it simple. Framing as Lakoff would say is key…so that is what the list up above is.
What are the roots of these phrases that marginalize, suppress, and ultimately oppress?
Many months ago I wrote a personal diary on DailyKos about my experience in child abuse…and how it was condoned by the religious figures around me. There was a tremendous number of people that were in the same / or similar situation.
What it took to put the topic out to the forefront was to let someone see the personal. It was my story and therefore not ‘abstract’ which could have and would have been dismissed.
Tell us a story – write a diary that is personal – about a personalizing newspaper story…we can reach that personal level easier than theoretical.
I’ve opened up on the liberal blogs personally on occasion. In Addison’s diary on the rec list Where is the most American place you’ve ever been? I just wrote some quite personal memories about growing up in Miami and the sense of America I developed from that.
But, you know, it takes all kinds, and I think I’m just not cut out to speak to masses very well. I don’t commercialize well; never have, and doubt I ever will. But I am smart as hell and I can both construct and deconstruct very complex theoretical elements of practically anything, which is a job that needs to get done just as much as every other job — and sort-of necessitates frustration about pragmatics since theory travels such an around-your-elbow-to-get-to-your-ass long way to get to practice.
I mean, you ask: What are the roots of these phrases that marginalize, suppress, and ultimately oppress? And that’s a subject I know very well, however, imo there’s no short way to communicate about it unless the parties involved are already sort-of on the same page. And since liberals are not always on the same page about sexism, racism, homophobia, etc., it gets too complex for me to handle addressing a large group about it and stay in the personal voice. Small groups are much easier for me — if I know where people are coming from, I can meet them where they’re at with little effort.
I think my thing is that I still have to figure out how I can best bring my skills to the table…and find a way to deal with that nagging nihilistic voice in my head that keeps telling me that we’re going to have to pull it all down in order to build a structure that genuinely works. Thanks for the suggestion and encouragement, though.
People who like theory are vital. And you’re right, us geeky theory types really don’t have a way to compress and package any of the core of what we’re saying; it is by nature nuanced, complex, and hard to communicate easily.
I am also not generally a hands-on organizer. I am always the background observer. And it is rare that I find people with whom to share those observations, who won’t just shrug and change the subject. Also, it’s hard sometimes to deal with my “real” activist friends, who consider me to be quite the navel-gazer (which is true, mind you) while they do all the work of whatever “movement”. On that, they’re quite wrong, though — their “movement”, whatever it is, would be meaningless if it weren’t for the theory that underlies it all — for the understanding of where we are, how we got here, and what elements are involved in building something better. It sneaks its way into every conversation I have, because even if I’m not trying, theory is at the core of how I understand the world. And I do notice it infecting my friends from time to time — as if nothing else, just my presence tends to make them more comfortable with complexity.
Theorists are sneaky that way.
And I, for one, appreciate your stuff a hell of a lot; it makes me think on a level that sure as hell isn’t asked of me very often. And it’s nice to share observations with other observers, even if we’re necessarily a small and kinda weird bunch.
I have that nihilistic voice, too, BTW. But I try to tell myself that that’s just because I don’t have the conceptual framework to understand something built from what we’ve got now that isn’t what we’ve got now. It’s about the only thing that keeps me from just going and being a hermit.
I often feel kinda dorky and a little like a kiss-ass replying to you because we agree on so many things. (And while I am indeed kinda dorky, I am so not any kind of kiss-ass, lol.)
I totally agree that theory gets the short shrift from folks who don’t do it and don’t recognize that it’s just as elemental as the work they do. Which is frustrating because I always feel like I’m not dismissive about their signage and their marching and all that shit. I make them sandwiches and support them any way I can, and I wish they’d stop talking about what I do as if it doesn’t matter. Besides, given my disability it turns out I’m better suited for theoretical work anyway. Most of my friends are tolerant, at least; I find most of my frustration in larger groups like big blogs and partisan organizations.
Damn Spit, you & I could build some mighty fine castles in the air with an epic beer-fueled offline conversation. If you ever get the desire and the time to arrange something, email me; I’ve got plenty of desire and time.
That sounds terrific… I’ve been wanting to take a road trip for quite a while now, if I ever get my *^$^! car to work happily, so I’ll keep you posted.
Beer and theory yay.
that gender diary was awesome, I’m sorry I missed it at the time.
Thanks. That means a lot. I was actually thinking of you, at least in part, when I wrote it and hoping that you’d show up. Like I mentioned to you before, I emailed you when I split dKos and I was going to invite you to that thread, but since my mail got caught in your spam filters it didn’t happen. Next time for sure, though.
Amusingly, around the time you posted that was when I finally finished Gender Trouble, and I had just decided to sit down and bog through some Foucault, too. It would’ve been quite a timely and convenient discussion; curses on my email.
Still haven’t managed the Foucault, but I’ve been in one of those phases where I think I need to process my own stuff more before I suck much else in. That and I went and got myself another girlfriend, which is only now calming to the point that I get anything done at all.
Check your email.
and was going to take actual time for a reply, but my roommate needs the computer. So I’ll drop you a line later.
Be well!
Somehow it’s our fault if one is raped and left by the side of the road half clothed. Counting the headlights that pass over you till you close your eyes. Hearing the tires crunch the gravel as a car finally stops. Hearing a best friend’s father speak to you. He doesn’t call your name because even though he has known you for years – he doesn’t recognize you at all.
They don’t cover you at the hospital as you enter. Only the coat of the man who found you as a make-shift skirt. You’re so tired of holding it tight against you. The bright lights reveal the blood and clots of dirt. You only have one shoe on. And oddly you wonder if you’ll be able to find the other one…
The little kid in the ER looks at you. The women, the nurse handling the phone – look away. They don’t want you to see you. You can only stand there. Shaking. There isn’t even a place to sit. Your vision isn’t even good. The world looks so distorted. You just want to sit down. But you are left standing. Only a stranger takes your arm and leads you to a room with a door that will remain shut. After what feels like forever someone joins you. Where you will be asked questions that should never be asked. Along with:
Do you want to call your parents? Do you want to involve the local police? Doors. Decisions. All you want to do is shower. You want to sleep.
Don’t tell. Don’t ever fucking tell. And if you do, you’d better have a reall fucking good reason why and how you got into such harms way. You’d better be ready to stand up for yourself. You’d better be willing to fight just as hard as one fights against a rapist.
And don’t you ever fucking speak up about women’s issues. How dare we fight to protect out daughters.
How dare we get upset because we still live in a country that whispers… only bad girls get in that “sort of trouble”.
Don’t tell one’s story. No need to. Society already has it allll figured out for themselves.
You have told the story and that makes the group of victims stronger for the next fight. Stronger is what they don’t want in the “don’t tell” phase.
Each time a person or a group steps forward and calls ‘foul’ it makes the conformists nervous. It is easier to pretend it doesn’t happen here, not to my kids, not in my family….
Suppression of the truth – in whatever form is marginalization.
The story you told is powerful here Janet. I don’t know if this is your story – it is every woman’s story. It is every caring person’s story to hear this. Big hugs and support and love to you and others who have been in the same place.
Sally, the man who took her to the hospital was very kind during that horrible night. Very kind. Stayed and called the parents to say that the girl would be spending the weekend with them.
After that, they were never contacted, called or anything. It was all kept very quiet. The silence is what makes some feel that they are a suspect rather than a victim. A perp rather than a patient.
Later it was learned the coat was thrown away. And for some sick, self-inflicting, society spawned reason … the girl felt guilt that the coat was “ruined”. She was told due to the rape she’d most likely never be able to have children… she cried over that. But sadly, she also cried over a damn coat. She cried that no one called her. She cried that obviously she mustn’t say a word about it to anyone. She learned from the doctors, the nurses, everyone in the ER room that night, and from the man who found her… don’t tell. It’s easier that way.
As easy as throwing away a coat. Gone and not thought about. Why would you want to bring THAT up?
Hows that for how we raise our daughters? A coat is worth more than their rights to be protected from such shitty thoughts and guilt-trips??? We can not allow this to continue.
Rage Rage Rage. We must never let them tell us to “shut the fuck up” or that our rights are “silly”.
Somewhere, even today, a young girl is worried about a fucking coat being thrown away “because of her”.
Thanks for reading it Sally. XOXO
Why did I share this? Does this belong here? And it does. Denying our voices is just repeating the same sordid game over and over. Being told to STFU while the big blogs deal with “real” issues… is the same as trying to shame someone into silence.
Shame.
That is the key to it all. Why must we feel shame? Why must we feel compelled to not make waves, to remain quiet, to not speak out… too much?
A victim should never feel shame. But it’s such an easy way to shut out things we don’t want to deal with.
A patient would never be asked if she wanted to keep things quiet if she had been mugged and slashed while being robbed at an ATM machine? While being hit by a car on a bike path. While breaking their leg at soccer camp. There is no shame accompanying those matters. Why with rape?
We would never expect the code of silence of over a mountain lion attack. One would never lay awake and wonder if the hospital will eventually contact your parents after a bike crash.
Shame never amounts to human dignity and human rights. Shame strips everything away. As RubDMC said in his diary yesteryday, shame is how we keep others down.
is part of the problem. Part of the speak when spoken to, be seen and not heard, and overall dismissal of our humanity.
It is important that victims speak out loud and strong – or someone speak out for them. We need to stop the silence which stops the marginalization.
Thank you for sharing it.
Fwiw, I think you’re right about shame. As well as keeping us down and functioning as a silencer, I think it also functions to deflect responsibility. If we took responsibility as a culture for our rape problem, much of the shame victims suffer would disappear overnight.
Thank you. I think that as well. That if we as a civilized society took responsibility then the burden wouldn’t be on the backs of those trying to heal. Some wounds run deeper than they should simply because of shame and the way this has been treated/untreated for centuries.
And I have enjoyed reading your posts and thoughts above 🙂 Thank you for sharing them. (I felt like a fly on a cafe table between two friends)
DAMNIT JANET! And I mean that. Damn it for bring the tears front and center (again). Damn it for the cloud of confusion and disoriented thoughts. Damn it for the uncontrollable shaking, the guilt, the shame, the emotional pain too deep to even reach. A soul in numbness.
Damn it! for every circumstance that exists today, right now, that creates, allows, condones and fosters these reactions. Just damn it!
Janet, your powerful writing has wrung me with tears and sucked the very breath out of me. Awesome ability you have.
Outstanding.
Thank you. Sorry for the tears though. ((((hugs)))
Dear heart. . .don’t ever be sorry for that. If I am not having tears over some connection to something, then I am not alive.
Any wonderful writing or speaking that takes me to a place to experience someone else’s pain, sorrow, heart, joy, accomplishment, hope, promise, truth, or wonderment always brings them forth. So thank you for the tears. You accomplished what you intended with your words. The sign of a very accomplished writer.
I doff my cap to you. . .(don’t know about “doff” and don’t have a cap. . .but you know)
Single issue groups – marginalizes any group that is non-conformist
Originally:
Don’t speak until spoken to
Bingo. That’s what I object to in all this talk about strategizing and gaming the system. What all this pap about supporting candidates who actively work against us is about distils down very nicely. What it really means is “Shut up and vote, and maybe we’ll get around to fixing your issues later. If you’re nice.”
This is completely aside from the fact that it is a monumentally stupid strategy.
Monumentally stupid and backwards.
It should be the other way around. Give us a reason to give you our vote.
believing you deserve someone’s vote not because of who you are but because of who you aren’t.
That’s the message we keep being given and it’s really depressing to me that no one who is delivering it can see how empty it is and how likely it is to discourage people from voting.
Well there is a reason, but it’s a cynical one — give us your vote or the Republicans win. Whether there’s truth in it or not, it’s not a platform.
Age discrimination has been coming back for some years now, and is striking members of just about every other demographic group as they pass age 45 or so. Except for those blessed to have lucrative skills and entrepreneurial ability, the reemployment trend is to lower-skilled, lower-paying work.
Perhaps I’m not listening, but I haven’t heard a hint of any suggestion with a serious chance of reversing this trend, much less any political initiatives to do so.
Given that this problem preferentially threatens baby boomers, perhaps our largest generation and the only living generation with a record of strong political activism against entrenched power, it seems odd that an issue which affects potentially all of them is evidently being overlooked.
But, baby boomers as a group have sat back and let many issues flap in the wind. I think there’s more hope for those around my age (46) who are still very politically active though. I don’t consider myself a boomer even though I make the cutoff definition. It seems our bunch from that era are a different breed from our elder boomers. We haven’t forgotten yet the hell that we lived through and we’re still willing to fight. We fit somewhere between the boomers and the Me Generation and I think that gives us a unique perspective. Old enough to remember what happened, but still young enough to fight. There’s an energy there that can’t be denied.
Now wait a moment, if you will. I am a boomer..at age 60, I was one of the most verbal over on kos when it came to protest. After all, we are all in this boat together! I have said many, many times, I am a fighter…have not been this way always, but have found ways and means for fighting all along.
Since I have different life stories to tell, does not make me not understand others. For that matter, I tend to understand more than most. I think that with maturity and wisdom, [which I am not acclaiming to have], I find it really beautiful that [we] with different life stories can and will come together and work together for the betterment of all of us.
I am someone’s mother, wife, grandmother, neighbor, friend, peer,,,etc. I do understand and have and will continue to fight along side of anyone who will have me fight with them.
Yes this is where the democrats of the other breed fail to see that we are very functionable and worthy of our genere and we do have lots to give and we are a value to them in the fact that we are with life stories that REALLY bring it on home for the whole of society.
Just because I seemingly to others do not have tragic life stories, I too have been abused…I use that abuse to my ability to lead and gather others under my wing so that we can march together, not singularily, to the tune we all want to sing. I learned a long time ago, if I do not stand up for myself, no one else will…..therefore, I started to gather my own strength to fight the great fight.
I admire each and every one of you here and others that we have yet to know. If we dont take our talents and put together a great orginaziation, we all will fail. I refuse to be minuplated and used ever again….That is by any man who wishes me to be that way or by any woman who feels I am to be shamed. By the grace of God, I will not let this happen to me ever again, and to those like yourselves.
With your definitions of such horridness, we can begin to understand the unrightousness of this whole shirll. I applaud each of you for your tenicity and I will certainly join with you in your fight…I am strong…you are strong…now that means we are strong….right???? we have to make a pack to one another to get the job done. The time is NOW!!!!! not next election…not in 10-20 years….but NOW!!!!!
Thank you to each of you for your encouragement by your words. I have give you the foundation to start a revolution by the past that I have fought, for you to do this. Now the ball is in your court…what will you do with it? I fought and lost many fights, but I also fought and won many so that you all have the right now to go above and beyone that which I did and improve it for your daughters and grand-daughters. If we fail, the time is getting hidden from/for them…
I refuse to let the likes of those who want to put me down and tell me to shut the fuck up…..I will not and shall not ever be in that postion again, in my lifetime…
As I see it, those wanting our vote, claim many things. They seem at the time the one who is really the one we want in our leadership of things in local and state and federal goverments. Once they get in those postions that we vote them into, they tend to forget how and why they got there. I say we must hold their feet to the fire! I know that this is where I have failed. I will not let this happen again. NOw that I have said my 2 cents worth here, I want you all to know that I stand firmly with you on these issues. not just one, but them all. We will and must make a difference this time…or all will be lost for the future.
I’m sorry if you took my comment personally. It was a general observation of the boomers’ attitudes and wasn’t meant as an attack on every boomer.
I know there are many, many boomers who are working damn hard. I’ve just been disheartened by those who have walked away. You certainly are not one of those!
Just because I seemingly to others do not have tragic life stories, I too have been abused…I use that abuse to my ability to lead and gather others under my wing so that we can march together, not singularily, to the tune we all want to sing. I learned a long time ago, if I do not stand up for myself, no one else will…..therefore, I started to gather my own strength to fight the great fight.
Amen to that! It’s not about stories – it’s about how we use what we’ve learned in our lives no matter what we’ve dealt with.
Exactly!!!!!!!!! I am not one who wallers in my own misfortune. I cry and get it out and then I gather that life experience and do what needs to be done. That is how we all get together and do what we must do for us all…those weaker than us need to have us to help them in their time of need and weakness..they are crying out for us to help…we must come to their aid. we just must.
Agreed – the entire social security reform for that directly reduces the baby boomer benefits is part of the discrimination.
Perhaps the only saving grace about the baby boomers and workforce hiring / employment is that many of us are now in management. In my 20’s I marched for causes a lot more than I do now. But as a political activist I’m still concious of my hiring decisions. Every business decision can be human or corporate…it’s our call.
Should I hire someone who is young and motivated and inexperienced?
Should I hired someone who is older, just as motivated, and with different experience?
It’s always a challenge…and in all honesty I lean to the older person when I hire.
Marginalization – another reason to avoid places like Wal-Mart….let’s hire people, retire them with little or no safety net, and hey, they can be Wal-Mart greeters when they get old….aaaaarrrgh!
Marginalized? This reminds me of all the the things in my past I thought about the nite before my birthday – my life experiences – which can be summed up here:
on and on it goes…
Those things happened to me and they shaped my life. They shaped my views and my perspective. They made me angry, they made me humble, and they made me fight back when I had the strength. They did not destroy me, but they came damn close many, many times. They made me feel guilty, but I don’t waste my time on unhealthy guilt anymore. They made me feel “different”.
I’m not a victim anymore and I don’t act like one. I try to act like a survivor who has a purpose – to help others who’ve been there too. What defines me as a person is the way I choose to act today. No one else defines that for me and damn them if they try. I don’t care where I fit in. I am different and I appreciate that now much more than I ever have. I do not let that set me aside from anyone. I drift towards those who respect differences and who promote them. I seek community but I do not let that community define me.
I could go on. The thing is not to give anyone power over my life. No one has that right. It’s my life and I’ve fought hard to live it my way. I deal with what’s thrown at me, but that can never disturb my core. I know who I am today. It took a long time to accept that and, now that I’ve gotten there, no one is going to make me sit on the back of the bus anymore.
Thanks for this opportunity to help me feel stronger today.
I’ve struggled for years with the terms applied to abused children.
Are we victims? No – we were…we grew up and most of us moved on. Victim is another definition…defining us by what happened to us not who we are.
Are we survivors? I’m not sure what that really means. It sort of feels like the choice between refugee and evacuee that was going on with Katrina. Yes we survived the abuse – but it doesn’t define me.
Like you I’ve chosen to accept that my life experiences have shaped who I am. We’ve shared some experiences along the way after looking at your list! Perhaps as I approach my 50th birthday this year I’ll make a similar list.
For now…just different
Always in defense of the helpless.
Always a strong, independent person.
Caring and giving and loving….openly and freely
….and with a really strong opinion on when the words begin to be part of the problem. When the words precede the negative action….maybe because we’ve been there we see them sooner.
‘”If you trip over a dog and break your leg,” Jane explains, “the dog doesn’t own you.”‘
Hitherby Dragons, Questions and Answers (2 of 2)
(Hitherby is sort of about child abuse, but sort of not. As usual for Rebecca Sean Borgstrom’s work, it’s hard if not impossible to categorize precisely.)
I’ve just took a couple of minutes to scan the site…after work today (Saturday – yuck!) I’ll read some more. Fighting monsters back…being real within ourselves…sounds like something I can identify with for my inner child. Dragons – well I like different mythology that makes them my friends and defenders!
A reading friend
The adult has different fears…generally of succeeding…but that’s still another diary!
If you like a very different dragon mythology and haven’t read Jo Walton’s “Tooth and Claw”, run out to your library or bookstore and get it.
Catnip, that learning process you have had is the most valuable ever. I applaud you for your statement. I know the tragity of it all..I hate to say it but been there done that is not logical at the moment…but it is true. I think that many of us have been there at one time or the other…in one fashion or the other. It is if we will let it out and acknowledge it and then start the fight against it. This is what the enemy doesn’t want us to see..they want us to sleep thru it all and grieve for our own shortcomings. If they can keep ut down this way, then they ahve won a very valuable premice to which we can not overcome. This is where we all must join hands and say NO MORE!!!!! With each of us we become stronger and that then makes the other side feel fear from us..the bigger we become the harder they have to fight us. One day we will waike up and see that we have become a very strong powerful enity to which they have finally run out of fighting power against us. HUGSSSSSSSS
It’s really strange but I’ve never really considered myself a victim. It would have been better if women had been treated as patients instead of fed some shame-based crup when it comes to attacks.
There are good and bad things that happen in our lives that continue to help us grown, learn and love.
That is how I draw strength from my experiences – but it’s really hard to draw anything from shame. And shame won’t shape anything.
There are so many things that have brought me to where I am today. … Most of it is pretty pathetic and the rest of it is comedic coinkydinks.
But regardless, I am me. I have the reigns I have the final say when it comes to who I am wanting to be.
No one who knows me well considers me meek, silent, victim type… 🙂 Ever since I was a little girl and could stomp my feet… I’ve been fighting. There have been times when I’ve had the air knocked out of my soul… but I always seem to catch my breath.
I got mad once because a friend of a friend had a “nervous breakdown” and had to go “rest”… I was like… what?? why can’t I breakdown!?!?!? G-d that wouldbe kinda cool to just fall apart… but no matter what I just can’t. Too much fight in my bones.
BTW I love your posts. You have shared so much. I can only hope that I can learn from your own strength and experiences. Thank you my friend.
Excellent advice DJ! We all have the final say on who we want to be. The key is finding the strength to find that person and then become them.
{{{{DJ}}}}
Just wish I could remember to hit spell check or something or have some coffee in my system before I attempt to communicate LOL
reign – rein… ack!
Just makes me so mad that our daughters will have so much that we fought for – taken away by this regime.
We can’t go backwards we still need to go forward.
that the current “culture” is the product of a dysfunctional family dynamic. There is too much emphasis on “controlling” (as when things get too scary it is imperative to put a lid on things), too afraid to dig into those dark areas of our psyches because of the monster that lives there and above all the need to appear “normal” or “good” without the understanding that there really is no “normal” or “good” other than just societal constructs (cardboard cutouts) that we cannot really attain (because we definitely are not cardboard).
How do we go about changing the current culture?
Speaking out, not putting a lid on things…these help but we have a limited voice. Until recently the press wouldn’t touch negative issues such as racism and poverty and lack of medical care for the elderly. Katrina put these issues front and center…but they are slowly fading from the front pages.
How do we keep the lights on?
I work with the theory of changing one person can reach out and change 3. Sometimes even getting one person to open their eyes and see can be tough.
But if we keep trying…that one will impact 3 others…and I’m really fond of windmills too
There you go, girl…you got it!!!!!!!! that is what I ahve had to do for many years…and thru my duaghters and my son, I am making a difference. Thru my granddaughters they will see too. Thru my peers they will see and then the words get finally out…Yes Katrina made the difference…it hurts many to admit that this is very true. But it is nto brag, just factual. Sometimes it take a very horrible thing to awaken others to the facts that we already knew…what a shame too, that this is the way it is…:o(
amen, grandma jo….amen to that one…..
My dad was an alcoholic and my mother did everything she could to “look good”. The hypocrisy always drove me nuts. It’s true on a larger scale as well as people live in their pretty homes while killing each other inside. This obsession with the exterior has hidden the shadow side and it’s that side that causes so many societal ills. That’s partly why I don’t believe in the concept of evil. I think it’s just 1) a lack of awareness of teh shadow side 2) a denial of reality 3) a fear of reality or 4) a blatant disregard for the harm caused by that reality (not acknowledging our humanity – all sides of it).
Western societies are incredibly superficial. That’s also why I get irritated by religious types who preach on about how beliefs should be internalized while they stand in their huge glass palaces of worship. It’s all show and it lacks the humility required to understand true spirituality.
I could go on…
These are the three adjectives applied to women, including me, over and over to trivialize our anger.
I am hesitant to raise this amid a thread about so much more major issues — rape, alcoholism, verbal abuse and worse . . . some of which I also have experienced, and with all of which I empathize.
But even women who have not experienced major assaults, even women who have endured them and have emerged stronger from them . . . still, we experience so often and so many places — especially some blogs — these everyday ways of minimizing our concerns by calling us “hysterical,” or “over-reacting,” or “impulsive” or . . . other adjectives anyone cares to contribute?
These are the ones I have heard so often attached to women, sometimes to me — when I was saying exactly what men said around me — but not attached to men.
And anytime I hear any one of these adjectives, I know my words have not been heard. So, working in a male-dominated world, I know that I might as well move on alone. These words tell me that minds are closed.
This is actually what I had in mind when I first wrote the diary. Agressive women vs confident men. Agression indicates that we are not in control.
Oh yes – working in corporate America – women are regularly accused of being hysterical, emotional, takes things to personally. Well yes, it is my job, my work ethic, my skills that you are attacking so it is personal.
Emotional – well pregnancy is emotional. To have one or not is physical and emotional. Our bodies are ‘personal’. Our sexual choices are personal.
The great thing about BT is diaries go up and we never quite know what direction the comments will go. This discussion has been great as it shows the thinking and empathy that goes on at this site. Parker’s diary on oppression takes it into the political side.
with me. Aggression is not okay with me.
But being assertive ought to be okay for all of us. Assertively expressing our anger — yet being told we’re being emotional, hysterical, over-reacting, etc. . . .
I was told that by a man who was shrieking and stomping his foot at the time.
I suppose I shouldn’t have laughed.:-)