PUPDATE, 9/22/05: This diary appeared under a different title originally. Since it appeared, Markos has graciously posted a straw poll here.
I want to laud Markos for hearing the voices of so many of us that are enthused about seeing Gore make a run in 2008.
Thanks, Kos!
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Original diary follows:
unfortunately, Kos skipped Al Gore from his monthly straw polls for the 2008 nominee once again, this month. Given that Gore has proven to enjoy strong netroots support in several polls that I have posted, and one that MSOC posted, I feel that omitting Gore from these polls is really quite unfair, and is in fact very un-democratic.
A couple of weeks ago, I posted a Gore’2008 collage at this link. Hope you will enjoy visiting it.
- Gore has not categorically declined a run in 2008
- very few of the potential candidates (included in Kos’ straw poll) have stated openly that they are running.
Why not just include him and see how he fares? Isn’t the proof in the pudding in this case? If Gore polls fairly poorly (say does not finish in the top 4 or 5), folks like myself will not raise the issue thereafter, would we?
On the other hand, if he does poll strongly, then not including him is not very democratic, especially when most of us are here, dedicating a good bit of our time, to try and advance the progressive and liberal causes.
As there is a one-diary-per-day limit on daily Kos (since Katrina), and I had already posted a diary today, I requested MichaelPH over there to post a straw poll with Gore added to Kos’ list of candidates.
His poll is posted in this diary of his, titled: “September Straw Poll for 2008 2nd Edition”.
Whether you are a Gore supporter or would prefer someone else, I hope that you will agree with me that including Gore is the “Democratic thing” to do. If so, I’d appreciate if you could go over to the link above and participate in that poll (and, of course, vote for your favorite candidate :)).
But more importantly, I request you to recommend that diary, so that it gets some “face time” on the recommended list, and hence would draw a larger turnout, giving us a more meaningful result.
With 190 votes cast, Here is how the candidates are polling: Bayh 1%, Biden 1%, Clark 22%, Clinton 2%, Edwards 7%, Feingold 7%, Gore 51%, Kerry 1%, Richardson 0%, Vilsack 0%, Warner 1%, Other/No Freakin’ Clue 3%
Thanks for reading. And, if you agree with my viewpoint, and decide to recommend MichaelPH’s dKos diary, my thanks to you in advance.
regards
Neo
ps: I am posting a poll here, after eliminating Vilsack and Bayh as they are polling the worst in Kos’ poll.
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Addendum (9/22/05):
Results from todays Kos’ straw poll.
Edwards 533 votes – 8 %
Clark 1621 votes – 25 %
Gore 3010 votes – 47 %
Clinton 303 votes – 4 %
Feingold 557 votes – 8 %
Other 145 votes – 2 %
No Freakin’ Clue 144 votes – 2 %
6313 Total Votes
Despite it being called a “fantasy” poll (which Kos explains by the fact that Gore has not taken explicit steps towards a run in 2008, so far), I opine that it is a meaningful poll, since it convincingly measures the pulse of the dKos community as of today. Note: Kos took the top 4 vote getters from his original straw poll and added Gore to the mix for this poll. The results from a similar poll, with Dean instead of Gore being included are:
Feingold 822 votes – 9 %
Clark 2568 votes – 29 %
Dean 3226 votes – 37 %
Edwards 855 votes – 9 %
Clinton 528 votes – 6 %
Other 303 votes – 3 %
No Freakin’ Clue 267 votes – 3 %
8569 Total Votes
Thanks!
I’m not a big fat Gore fan–in fact I think he’s pretty hopeless–but he does have at least as good a reason for being included as anybody does.
I hope all you folks just keep doing what you’re doing. Markos is digging out a grave for that site. Such a pity. I had such high hope when it looked like the was trying to subvert/circumvent the DLC. Now it seems like he’s drunk on [the illusion of] power [which, if it ever was there, belonged to the site’s membership, not him].
Reminds me of this story where the little farm animals wanted to be in charge of the farm, because they hated their human keepers. When the pigs eventually took over, nobody could tell them from the humans. Maybe you’ve heard this story; I read it in high-school. Well, when I was a naive young’un, I refused to believe this allegory – it stunk like an apology for apathy, and a plea in support of tyranny. Looking back, I realize that’s not the case. In my books, it’s a warning to never let the ends justify the means. And, at this point I’ll give a shout-out to Knoxville Progressive, who wrote:
Your speaking of Animal Farm by George Orwell. It is a simple, yet profound book. Often on High Schoole reading lists, and should be.
Oh!! That’s the book! </sarcasm>
Wow, quoted in the same context as George Orwell.
Will my head ever fit through the door again? LOL
Thanks for making my day!
Well, Kos has stated that he’s only putting in candidates that actually seem to be in the running, and not candidates that many might wish would run but who have declared that they will not.
To the best of my knowledge, Gore does fall into that latter category. You state that he has not categorically denied such intentions. I was under the impression that he had more or less done so, but I could be wrong.
Should Gore, through words or deeds, challenge that perception, it would not surprise me at all for his name to be included in such future polls.
Hi,
Sorry to hijack your thread here, but I have to say that your title is probably exactly the reason people over at dkos are getting so annoyed with us. Is there a particular reason why we need to know over here, at BooMan that Kos left Gore out of a poll? Would the more appropriate question/ title have been – Would you support Gore in 2008? Not as attention getting for sure, but a little more relevant to what your main point is… Gore should be included as a contender because he has support… and we prove that support with our poll…
Just a thought.
Kos is backed by Simon Rosenbergs 200 million dollar pack to create the “New Media” for the “New Democrats”… I’d say it is mandatory that his views be held up to scrutiny since they proclaim to be the voice of the blogsphere. Rosenberg has gone so far to say in Newsweek that the blogoshpere is NOT to the left nor does it believe in ideologies. The only way Rosenberg could have come up with that factesque to to “poll” Kos… because he surly did not ask me… or any “special interests” groups.
It is not enough to say I am just a guy with a blog, when you are backed by a mulimillion dollar “think” tank to develop and streamline the “message” for the entire “librul” blogosphere.
While those issues and points are indeed fair and should be open to scrutiny, calling him un-democratic because he left off Al Gore in a poll, at BooMan Trib is not.
There are indeed legitimate points of discussion that can be had about Kos (I rasie a few of my own thoughts in a diary today), but ultimately he only has as much power and cred as we give him… and really, the fact that Gore is missing from an unscientific poll at a site that is not this one, should not be a topic for conversation here imo… although, talking about should Gore run is.
My opinion, FWIW, is that in this instance, as in life, picking your battles is key… otherwise it starts to come across as shrill and people tune out your truly relevant points, i.e. the replacement DLC.
calling him un-democratic because he left off Al Gore in a poll, at BooMan Trib is not.
Agreed
I do see some of your points.
–>Gore should be included as a contender because he has support… and we prove that support with our poll…
That Gore has strong netroots support has been established many times over, in the last couple of months (in addition to MSOC’s poll), there are these other polls too:
In all of these polls, Gore finishes in the top-3 bracket. Now, Kos may not have seen these polls, but he must have seen MSOC’s Gore poll, where Gore pulled in very strong (~65%, some 1000+ votes) support, because the poll was attached to an incredibly popular diary. So, I’d be quite shocked if Kos isn’t aware of the fact Gore has strong netroots’ support.
My basic point in that the people should be allowed to make the determination of whether Gore should be in or not (why Gore and not someone else? because Gore is currently pulling in the top-bracket, and should there be some evidence that some other candidate xyz is going strong, then xyz should be thrown into the rink as well). Not allowing that choice to the people is “un-democratic” to me.
If you read the comments attached to the september straw poll (search for “Gore”), you will see that there are many people that feel the same way about not getting to vote their choice. My intent in posting the diary was to speak on behalf of all of those voices.
I think what is also unfair is that, if Gore is not included, his supporters may over time start moving on to other choices that are being presented to them. So, in some sense I was fighting on behalf of Al Gore too (remember him, one of the greatest vice presidents that ever served our nation? :)).
Since there probably is a very large overlap among communities (I’d venture to guess that at least 80% of booman’s registered community is also registered at Kos), and because I was observing the 1-diary-per-day rule over there yesterday, I expressed my disappointment here.
Most importantly, please remember that I wasn’t asking for something special to be done towards Gore, but only that he be given the same treatment that other 2008 prospects (some extremely weak ones, such as Vilsack) are getting.
so, that’s my explantion.
thanks for your comment, I do appreciate it 🙂
Neo
Maybe I missed something but perhaps this would been best addressed in the original poll thread on dkos. With all due respect to Markos, I would expect that there was some good reason to exclude Gore. And netroots support does not automatically carry through to society as a whole. Anyway, I thought that Gore was now pursuing his goals in a fashion not involving elected office, but perhaps my recollection is not accurate.