CNN’s latest article on the Miller case offers some interesting tidbits. It appears that she was keen to avoid having to testify about her reporting on WMD. First some quotes, then some speculation on the flip.
Here, CNN is discussing the negotiations for Miller’s release from jail. They involved Libby’s attorney, Joseph Tate, Miller’s attorney, Bob Bennett, and Fitzgerald’s office.
It took Miller’s lawyers a month, till Sept. 29, to hammer out the details with Libby and Fitzgerald. A legal source told TIME that Fitzgerald gave both camps a letter saying that if Miller and Libby were to have a talk about making a deal, the prosecutor wouldn’t view the conversation as collusive or obstructive as long as they didn’t discuss what Miller would testify to.
Said Bennett: “She would not testify until she was satisfied that the source personally was waiving confidentiality, and she wanted to hear it directly from him.” Negotiations with Fitzgerald were complicated, involving not only Miller’s testimony but her notes as well. The legal source told TIME that the prosecutor did not give the final O.K. for Miller’s release until after he received and reviewed the notes from one of two conversations with Libby in July 2003.
In his deal with Miller, the prosecutor agreed to limit the scope of her testimony before the grand jury, focusing only on the reporter’s conversations with sources about Plame, according to her lawyer Bennett. Miller wanted to rule out of bounds any questions about her reporting on WMD, a lawyer involved in the case told TIME.
:::flip:::
A couple of things stick out. First, Miller and/or her lawyer were approached by a third party who told them it “might be a good time to approach Libby”. A possible explanation for this comes later in the article:
So, it appears everyone and their mother knew that Libby was responsible for Miller’s imprisonment, contrary to Libby’s letter which expressed surprise that he was the source she was protecting. Also directly contrary to Tate’s latest bullshit:
‘The significant fact that you continue to omit, and that seems to be lost here, is that you never told me that your client did not accept my representation of voluntariness or that she wanted to speak personally with my client,’ Tate said in a letter to Abrams. ‘Even you can`t spin those facts away. That is the answer to this unfortunate circumstance of your client`s incarceration, not any failure on our part.’
But another possible explanation comes from Newsweek’s piece:
I don’t know who the third-party is who initiated this phone conference. I thought it might be John Bolton, since it has been reported he visted Miller in jail. But that rumor was floated on August 15th, long before the process leading to Miller’s release got started.
I also am intrigued by the not so subtle use of the (…) by Isikoff. The clear implication of that (…) is to convey that Libby was sending a message. Perhaps even a veiled threat. I’ve been wondering whether Libby’s strange letter also contained a veiled threat. Libby wrote:
Is Miller an ‘aspen’? Does ‘turning’ refer to becoming a state’s witness? Ah, so much to speculate on.
But back to the top clip. Miller was not only negotiating with Libby, she was negotiating with Fitzgerald about limiting the scope of his questioning. She didn’t want to answer questions about her reporting. How very intriguing. And yet, Fitzgerald agreed to limit the scope and not question her about her reporting. So, a lot of speculation about how wide of a net Fitzgerald is casting may be off the mark.
Still, why would Miller want these assurances? Why does she assume that Fitzgerald might want to ask about her WMD reporting?
And this gets back to something else I have always wanted to know. Judy Miller never wrote an article about Joe Wilson or Valerie Plame. So, how did Fitzgerald become aware of her involvement in the leaks? Answer me that question and we will be a lot closer to understanding this case.
Meanwhile, the Washington Post reported a couple days ago::
One source briefed on Miller’s account of conversations with Libby said it is doubtful her testimony would on its own lead to charges against any government officials. But, the source said, her account could establish a piece of a web of actions taken by officials that had an underlying criminal purpose.
If that ‘web of actions’ connects up all the aspens, this investigation could still be earth-shattering:
Could it be that Libby told Miller something important about the whole WMD mess that would have implicated the WH in the scheme of lies it had put forth to justify the war? Perhaps he actually confirmed what Wilson had reported on – that the WH knew the Niger letter was a forgery before Bush made his SOTU speech. There’s more going on here and very few people know the truth.
I think it’s clear that Judy was a enthusiastic volunteer secret agent for the Office of Speciial Plans. Maybe that’s what the aspen and their roots are all about. They are all inconnected. She’s not just a reporter, she works for the government planting fake stories in the NYT.
Miller and Libby’s lawyers and a bunch of unnamed “sources” (who could be Miller and Libby’s lawyers for all we know) giving us various spins and conflicting and ever changing accounts of what transpired to convince Miller to capitulate and testify…
And make no mistake, Miller capitulated. In the parlance of the Hitchiker’s Guide to The Galaxy, she is on an elevator going up that should be going down. and she threw in her towel.
The ONLY source worth paying attention to is silent. That source is Fitzgerald.
She didn’t captiulate. She got what she wanted. Limited testimony. She didn’t have to implicate herself in planting false stories about WMD which is wholly related to the false stories about Sadaam and yellow cake.
Why if Fitzgerald is so tough would he not carry out his threat to develop a new Grand Jury….and maybe he is anyway. Why didn’t he squeeze her more if he is so tough.
A good prosecutor only asks questions for which s/he already has answers.
Fitz isn’t after her testimony vis a vis the WMD and Niger lies. He wants — and GOT — Libby’s.
Looks to me that the “Miller In and Out of Prison Play” was designed to turn up the heat on Libby while at the same time give him some cover until the inevitability factor could come into play. Now Rove and Cheney know that the WMD Niger letter cabal is collapsing around them.
In short, Fitz was waiting out the development of the cover-up that couldn’t. Now he’s got more charges.
Cheney, Rove, Bush, Condi, and Libby (at least) conspired to create the falsehood about WMDs and the forged Niger letter “confirmation.” Libby is NOT the rank ideologue that Cheney and Rove are, thus he flipped. You can gues the cast of characters involved in the cover-up.
Since 2003, it’s been common (unconfirmed) knowledge that Libby is the source leak on Plame. So, obviously, this was only a whoop-di-doo to Fitz. What wasn’t common knowledge is that there was a WMD conspiracy and Libby was one of the willing cogs. And now he’s also a willing witness to the cover-up who’s willing to testify. Libby is willing. . .wonder what his plea deal is. . .?
I think that’s wishful thinking and I’ll explain why.
Even if Bush, Rove, Hannah, Feith, Libby, Bolton, Franklin etc. engaged in a conspiracy to hype a threat of WMD generally, and Nigerien uranium specifically, that is not a crime. Show me the statute that says the executive branch cannot lie about matters of national security.
Even taking us into war under false pretenses is not a crime under the law.
There might be a statute pertaining to internal propaganda that could be used, but that would require Judy to testify about her WMD reporting, which Fitz doesn’t care about.
The potential crimes involved in this case are:
Even if they could prove that Dick Cheney typed the Niger memos and John Hannah hand-delivered them to the Italian STASI, that would not be a crime. If they were paying Judy Miller to print knowingly false propaganda in the NY Times, they might be indictable over that, but then Fitz would not have cut such a deal with her.
So BooMan, what do you think the indictments will involve, and who will be involved? I know, the 64K question, but I’m trying to figure out the last part of your post, and I guess I’m lost.
this could be fun.
What do I think happened?
I think Joe Wilson made a comment on CNN about the state dept. knowing more about the Niger docs being phony than the gov was letting on.
(This happened in the first days of the war, months before Wilson wrote his editorial).
That led to official interest in Wilson from within the state dept. and from Cheney’s office of disinformation. A report was ordered to find out what Wilson knew about Niger. It was discovered that he had gone there and made a report.
At the same time, Wilson was privately contacting people at State, the CIA, and possibly the White House asking them to retract the 16 words.
Then Kristoff wrote an editorial debunking the 16 words and using Wilson as an anonymous source. Of course, Cheney’s group had little doubt about who the source was.
Condi Rice went on Meet the Press and lied about what she and Cheney et al, knew.
Kristoff fired off another more devastating column, again using Wilson as an anonymous source.
More denials ensued. So, Wilson decided to go on the record himself and wrote his column.
By the time he did this, he had already been pissing off Cheney et al. for months. They already has a dossier ready to discredit him with.
He was unqualified, his report never reached the VP, the VP never even knew he was going, and worst of all, the only reason he got the job was because of his wife.
All standard counter-spin in the Rovian White House.
I don’t know whether they knew Valerie was undercover or not. Certainly some did. Others probably did not. I have never been convinced that they outed her to intimidate others, or to ruin her career. They may have just used the biggest counterargument available to discredit Wilson, and inadvertantly outed Plame.
As for indictments:
Rove can be indicted for perjury without question. How strong the case is remains to be seen.
Beyond that it is pure speculation. But if he indicts for conspiracy, the likely list of conspirators would include:
Dick Cheney
Condileezza Rice
Colin Powell
Richard Armitage
Scooter Libby
Stephan Hadley
John Bolton
John Hannah
Karl Rove
Scott McClellan
and several others, including members of the CIA, the state dept. and Cheney’s office.
And possibly Bush himself.
Most likely, Rove, Libby, Bolton, and McClellan will be as high as it gets.
I am sure you can find a crime in forgery. Forgery is a crime in itself. You have to look at who committed the forgery. Was it an authorized agency of the government or a private contractor hired by someone in the government without authorization to do so, who then acting on their own or, together present a false document as real. Isn’t that what appears to have happened. Isn;t that at least what the NEO Cons are supposed to have done. Isn’t it also possible that they conspirred with a foreighn government, (Italy or Israiel or Chalabi) to produce these documents without aurthoorization of the United States Government? There are many crimes I would be willing to bet that could be presented from lying about these documents. You just have to use your imagination.
is it illegal to make up a forgery of Niger official documents? It’s not.
Why would it be illegal to present forged documents to a foreign source? It’s not.
Forgery laws pertain to protecting people from fraudulent contracts, or entering into agreements under false pretenses. It’s not illegal to mislead the Italians, whether you are in the government or not. The key to understanding forgery statutes is this:
To convict of forgery, you must prove the act of deception has:
Legal efficacy — The document or writing has to have some legal significance affecting at least another person’s right to something, usually some property right, broadly defined to include intellectual property like the form of a signature. Legal significance is distinguished from social significance. A writing of social significance cannot be the subject of forgery; e.g., a letter of introduction. Similarly, if you found an old book by a famous author and wrote their signature inside the front cover to make it look like an autographed edition, you would not be guilty of forgery because this has social, and not legal significance. But, if you were to sell the autographed book at an auction, you would be guilty of false pretenses…
Now, someone broke into the Niger embassy in Rome back in January 2001. If you can trace that back to the vice-President then you have a real crime. If the documents were written on stolen stationary, you can (perhaps) link those events up.
But the document had signatures that were falsified. That’s a crime. It’s certainly a crime in Niger and it certainly must be a crime for an American to forge a Nigerians signature on a false document which implicates that person in an act that they did not committ, an act that would have to be considered illegal in Niger, thereby among other things implicating a person in a crime of selling Yellow cake which was not authorized by the Nigerian Government and perhaps which the Nigerian government didn’t own.
If a document is forged by someone who make work within the government but has not been authorized to do so and that document is used to decive the government …that, it seems to me would not be only a forgery but an act of treason.
I think that any lawyer could make it into a crime, Here’s a definition that says it’s a crime to alter someone’s signature and that is what they did. Even if they didn’t alter the signature they atlered a document which had signatures that did not belong on it.
http://www.expertdocumentexaminer.com/forgeryinfo.html
Niger=Nigeriens
Nigeria=Nigerians
There might be some state laws that are stricter, but generally speaking, there is still a distinction between a social cause and legal effect.
Certainly some people in Niger have a legal case over their signature being used. But that is likely a civil case and it lacks jurisdiction. As I pointed out, to convict for forgery you have to show material harm to someone. And in the case of Niger documents, the only people (as far as I know) that can make a claim are Nigeriens. They can say their intellectual property was stolen, and if they wanted to pursue a case they might win.
But there is no way that Fitzgerald is pursuing a case based on their interests. He could uncover an entire operation of false documents, phony defectors, misleading leaks, and still find no crime. We could even pay British and Australian journalists to write bogus articles that are then unwittingly picked up by the American press, and that would not be a crime.
Fitzgerald isn’t going after the WMD wurlitzer.
Oh, I don’t think he’s doing anything with WMD. I don’t know, but I assume it is related only to Plame. I was just saying that, as far as I know he is allowed to broaden the scope of the investigation. Maybe that’s not accurate, but that’s my impression.
I see what your saying that there has to be harm to someone connected to a forgery in order for it to be a crime. I understand that.
But isn’t it possible to prove harm to the United States Government just in terms of having to allocate resources to prove the authenticiity of the document itself by sending Wilson to Africa for example and all the complications that have resulted from the forgeries that caused unnecessary harm in the form of monetary expense to the government, not to mention the more abstract connection that it contributed to the invasion of another nation and was part of a larger broader conspiracy to decieve the United States government as to the threat posed by Iraq.
Now whether that can be proved, I don’t know, but it would be reasonalbe to assume that this is a real possibility. That is to say that the forgery contributed to a larger scheme to involve the United States in a war unnecessarily causing the deaths of service man and the destruction and damage of US property.
I don’t see why that’ so far fethched. It may be far fetched to imagine it happening politically.
Well, yes I have been to Africa so I should know how to spell Nigerien.
the proper legal response would be impeachment. To try to tie a forgery involving foreigners and a break-in in a foreign country to the abstract case you describe would be very hard. In theory, you could blame the conspiracy for the misallocation and destruction of U.S. property. I’d just recommend removal from office.
“Why didn’t he squeeze her more if he is so tough?”
Possible reasons:
3a,b) He feels sorry for her (for reasons we can’t yet see, without the bigger picture) / He’s a nice guy.
Reason 3 just doesn’t feel right. Reasons 1 and 2 both imply that something big is brewing.
I’m starting to get the feeling that I had during the earlier part of Watergate – like the ground is rumbling and the geyser is about to blow, or that eerie feeling you get out on the Great Plains when the sky turns green and the air is still, too still…
Life may be about to get very interesting. And Bush is asking for the overturn of Posse Comitatus, first for weather disasters and now for epidemics? Reminds me of Nixon’s declaring a state of military alert as he was going down.
And what role might our new Supreme Court nominee have in all of this?
Are the aspens quaking? Are they turning state’s evidence? They’re all connected at the roots; we just can’t see it all yet from where we are…
From everything I’ve read about Fitzgerald, if he loosens his grip with one hand, it’s only because he’s already drawing blood with the other hand. If he didn’t question Miller about something he needs, it’s because he already has it or he knows he can circle around for another pass.
Besides, the longer he can hang on the horizon like a storm front, the more insiders will lose their nerve and start sending out feelers via their attorneys.
You said: “Reminds me of Nixon’s declaring a state of military alert as he was going down.” I always wondered if anyone remembered that about Nixon’s last days. I remember it, and I was pretty tuned out during that time.
What IS going on?
Plus, Bush’s “no comment” on the investigation today. It sounded ominous. Like there was a shark in the bath water. He doesn’t know if his, or his buddies, balls are about to get chomped. Can’t say nothing. Just sit and wait. And hope the shark moves on. I sure am hoping.
Hey an epidemic would be good for America. It brings the best out in Americans. Americans helping Americans. George Bush said that about 911.
Maybe he’s planning on an epidecmic. Same guy who sent the Anthrax might be working on it and CDC.
Bush’e xmas gift.
Don’t say Fitz is a nice guy though.
I’m certain Miller would not have wanted to testify concerning her bogus reporting, but would questions about that be relevant in the Plame inquiry? I think not, except perhaps in the most peripheral way.
I think it makes more sense that her insistence on limiting her testimony to just her conversations with Libby has to do with her not wanting to be required to answer questions about a different, perhaps more highly placed or sensitive source, (like the demon Cheney himself, or perhaps the dangerous and volatile psychopath Bolton).
She may not have wanted to talk about Cheney, if she spoke to him or knew he spoke to Libby about speakking to her.
But bogus or fake documentation and the reporting that followed is what the investigation originates from. It’s the seed of the investigation. Why wouldn’t the Niger forgeries be related to similar forgeries in reporting, both having as one of theiir sources or particpants, Chalabi. He was the source for everything bad about Sadaam and Judy Miller was the person who he went to with the info, then she went not to the New York Times but the VP office of Special Plans and then to the NYtimes. That’s what I think anyway. She’s a volunteer secret agent for OSP.
but that is not likely a crime.
Two bits:
That leads me to believe he is trying to build a conspiracy case that is restricted to the leaking of Plame’s name.
Is conspiracy big enough to justify jailing a reporter? Seriously, I’m not a lawyer, and I’d like to know. If one is convicted of conspiracy, what is the penalty in this situation?
Like some of you, I see Judy as an enthusiastic colluder, eager to spread the Administration’s so-called “intelligence” on WMD’s. As long as she feels she’s made an impact on this universe, she’ll be happy enough.
Libby will go far to protect his interests — this may or may not mean protecting hers. But one thing is sure, she’s basking in the mystique surrounding her. If anyone dare ignore her or not respect her importance, we’ll be hearing a whole lot more from her. Have any of you read her NYT articles supporting the Admin’s claim of WMD’s?
Many of Nixon’s lower echelon minions were convicted of conspiracy to break into Watergate. So it’s possible. He himself was brought down, as were a few of his aides. My memory’s not good here, though. That little episode pales next to a conspiracy to invade a small country under pretext it was a terrorist threat to the US. At the time, it was huge.
This investigation is about the disclosure of the identity of an intelligence agent and whether there is criminality attached to that act. It is conspicuously not about whether there was bogus info or bogus reporting on the state of Iraq vis a vis WMD or anything else.
Certainly concealing the truth about bogus claims made by the Bush regime goes to motive for why these administration officials might have chosen to retaliate against Wilson by outing his wife.
But having such a motive is not illegal, and determining whether such motive is in fact the driving force behind this outing is immaterial to the merits of the case as to whether the law was broken or not. What’s at issue is not the reason for outing Plame, but whether outing her in itself was a crime either individually or as an act of conspiracy. The truth or falseness of the intel in question makes no difference to the charges at hand.
Motives are never Illegal, they have to have an accompanying act that is illegal for them to have relevance.
Don’t Grand Juries allow for the expansion of the probe based on information that may not be directly related to the case?
Yeah, they could be indicted for anything, theoretically.
You keep mentioning that he is a Republican. That is one aspect of it. He is also a prosecutor, that is another aspect of it.
There is a lot of pressure on a prosecutor to make indictments and then to win the case. He may have mixed feelings about the scumbags in office, but by now he is fully aware of what scum they are.
My grandfather is Italian, but it doesn’t mean that John Gotti was a good guy. In other words, he is investigating a potential crime and he thinks a crime has been committed. I suspect he is trying to make a case for putting some people in jail. I very much doubt that he will fail to indict unless he doesn’t think he can win the case.
I keep mentioning it because everyone assumes his motive. Yes prosecutors definetly like to put people in jail….but they usually don’t get assigned to investigate one of their own though. and they like to put people in jail because it usually is serving their ambitions. States Attorneys are not nice people. You don’t get to be a states attorney by being humane or by being sensitive, considerate, open, sharing, warm , friendly, live and let live or even liberal minded etc.
It is a very particular kind of person who is attracted to a job like that. It is a PREDATOR. The question is would he feed better on the corpse of Cheney or the corpse of Libby or the corpse of an investigation that went nowhere. Sometimes it is better in the life of a predator to wait.
I think Fitagerald is a predator. I don’t think he has too many feelings. He is not ambivalent. I just wish I knew a couple of tidbits more about him, and I would know where he is going. But no one wants to offer any information on this guy other than he’s a bulldog, blah blah blah. Maybe he is, maybe he will indict Bush and Cheney. But I cannot for the life of me see why given the just generalized information I have about him. It doesn’t fit that he would be honest hard working prosecutor working for justice and justice alone. Those kinds of people don’t become prosecutors. That;s closer to the realm of activist or artist or something.
But I’m glad you grandfather is Italian. My Grand mother was Italian.
First of all, I don’t totally agree with your characterization of prosecutors. I agree some of them are as you describe, but certainly not all.
But more importantly, to go along with your skepticism, I can see Fitzgerald limiting his case to smaller fish to spare his party and country the trauma of another Watergate. But in this case the small fish are several feet long.
Listen, I will be so GLAD if he indicts Cheney. i;m not that excited about Libby. Rove would be good. Assuming they are guillty!
What do you think the repercussions would be? If it were just Libby or Just Rove.
And if it’s Cheney?
imagine the simultaneous trials of the house majority leader, the asst. chief of staff to the President, the chief of staff to the vice-President, and possible the majority leader of the Senate.
You tell me what the repurcussions would be?
Well, the reason I asked is because I would like to know what you think. I guess you think that it would be a disaster for Bush and ………?
I guess a lot of Republicans would want George Bush out of office.
Here’s a interesting article. I read it. I don’t understand it entirely, but I am left with a feeling that Fitzgerald and lawyers for Miller and Libby are bumbling quite a bit.
Fitzgerald sounded clueless to me in his letter.
http://www.nysun.com/pf.php?id=20936
and would leave one to believe that Fitzgerald is a very nice guy and has no hidden agenda in getting Miller out of the hoosegow. This doesn’t square with the notion of the proscecutorial predator theory. And it doesn’t really give a good clue as to why he put Judith behind those bars with the bad food to begin with. Although Libby was not let off the hook.
I thought Fitz was an independent not a repub.
He is registered as non-affiliated. But that doesn’t mean anything. He did so that he could not be accused of being partisan. It seems he has always moved in Republican circles. Look he was appointed by the Bush administration to investigate the Bush administration.
He was appointed by a Republican (though liberal and apparently relatively honest) Peter Fitzgerald to be the Attorney general for the Northern District of Illinois.
Since then he is trying to destroy the Democratic Machine of Mayor Daley a Democrat and George Ryan a Republican who apparently angered Bush by creating a moratorium on the Death Penalty. Ryan was a Republican in name only, working very well with Daley and Democrats on everything. Daley and Ryan loved each other. Check out my blog for some inside information.
http://www.bushplanet.blogspot.com/
It appears to me that what is bothering everyone is that we do not ‘know’ what Fitzgerald is pursuing. There have been NO leaks from inside his investigation nor from the GJ itself. All this is pure speculation based on some obscure comments by lawyers representing the ‘persons of interest’ and ‘targets’ of the probe. Personally, I find it to his credit that he has been able to keep a lid on that for the duration of the investigation.
As to the statements regarding his being a Republican, I remember reading several articles where it has been repeatedly stated and confirmed by persons close to him that he is a registered ‘Independent’. I have seen no reason to believe, nor have I seen any evidence, that he is politically motivated in any way. Chicago Tribune columnist John Kass, who is very ‘wired into’ the political scene there had this to say on the {PBS News Hour:
I also know several DA/Prosecuting attorneys, and can attest that they are not ‘warm and fuzzy folks’. They tend to view the world, and especially the law in very stark terms; black v white, good v evil. They see themselves as activists and even artists of the law if you will. They all posses massive egos and do not like to be fucked with or lied to.
Frankly, I am more concerned with the maneuvering that surely must be going on behind the scenes that would seek to remove him from the prosecution at the end of his appointment at the end of October. He’s playing a very serious game with some very powerful and dangerous people. The stakes are huge, and any attempts to whitewash these inquiries or to obstruct them is, imho, inviting a CAT5 shit storm.
I’m quite content to let the man do his job and then consider judgment. This hand wringing and speculation contributes nothing of benefit to either side.
Peace
EX-cellent point, that it’s not happening. Whereas the Clinton Whitewater investigation was like a sieve. ‘Oh, OOPS, someone in the office just spilled the beans again, haha”.
Susan McDougal’s book about Whitewater is a must read.
John Kaas is a right wing republican who took over from Mike Royko and by all accounts is failing. So he’s is always opposed to Daley and all Democrats. I like what he writes about Daley but he’s gone overboard. He;s just a Republican bashing Democrats, there’s no point, no objectiveiy. He has had some horrible things to say about Iraqis and “looters”.
There are no leaks when a Republican Fitzgerald (and he is a Republican=so forget about what you read that he registered as non-affiliated) is investigating a Republican Administration. But there are leaks when a Republican (Starr) is investigating Clinton. And there were leaks during watergate among the various prosecutors because of a number of reasons.
No leaks to me is not a good sign. He’s protecting Bush with no Leaks…you could come to that conclusion. It’s reasonalbe.
If you have a massive ego you cannot be anything but a monster. People with massive ego’s are violent and cold. States’s attorney are usually really not much different from the people they incarcerate.
Just like the Police are very often no different from the people they put away.
I know he is from Chicago and a republican. I would guess, after a culture of democratic machine politics in Chicago, there might be an idealism about cleaning up city corruption. I’m just guessing. I want to love Fitzgerald — I want to believe he’s genuinely after the bad guys. I’m not saying that republicans from Chicago are all good, I’m just saying that there might be a generation of people who grew up reacting to Daly machine politics.
Fitzgerald is not from Chicago originally. He was appointed States Attorny for the Northern District of Illinois by Peter Fitzgerald…no relation. Then he was appointed by James Comey who worked for John Ashcroft to head this investigation. Comey now works for Lockheed Martin as the chief counsel. Lynnn Cheney and Lynn Cheneys Daughters husband have a long relationship as board members and lobbyist for Lockeheed Martin.
Here’s an article on this stuff on my blog.
http://www.bushplanet.blogspot.com/
I might be wrong but I think Fitzgerald’s brief is limited to the investigation concerning criminal acts that may have been involved in the outing of Valerie Plame. He’s a special prosecutor employed by the Justice Dept., not an Independent Counsel, and it was the independent counsels that had the much broader authority to go beyond the scope of their original inquiries and bring indictments on unrelated charges.
Mind you, I’m not defending Fitzgerald or Miller or any of these loathsome extremists responsible for the entire debacle. I just don’t see Fitzgerald moving into the arena of investigating people for providing false info on WMD, etc.
Additionally I fully expect that if fitzgerald does have really solid evidence of criminal acts by Rove, Libby, Miller, et. al. that he will not have his term as prosecutor renewed by his superiors when it eexpires this month. the bush regime has never allowed any criminal investigation of them to get traction, and there’s no reason to expect they’ll allow this one to get anywhere either.
I suppose if he is trying to mute as much as possible the impact of the investigation he wouldn’t want to go anywhere into WMD and Judy Miller.
If he were ambitious about uncovering the whole sordid truth, I think he has the power to do so, or at least request from his boss to do so.
I can see no reason why he would.
You have to uinderstand Fitzgerald politically to understand where the case is going. I don’t claim to understand where he is politically. But I know he’s a republican. Everyone assumes he’s honest. Honest people don’t become State’s attorney’s. That’s on TV. Ambitious, coldblooded, cut throats become states attorneys. Where does he see his amibition being realized? Through indictments or through muting the impact of the indictments. Another factor I suppose is the Grand Jury itself. They, as I understand it can act on thier own. They have been exposed to information, they may come to a conclusion not desired by Fitzgerald, but I would guess that’s unlikely.
One interesting thing is you said is that Fitzgerald might continue with a new Grand Jury, presumably because Miller didn’t testify. Might he do that anyway? That would be a fizzing out.
Could it be that there will be no indictiments because the GJ will continue. What would that mean? How long would it continue for?
Would that be like starting all over again?
I just think it would be more interesting and realistic to be skeptical of Fitzgerald. I have found nothing good or bad about him but there are a few incidentals. Here’s a blog with some info.
http://www.bushplanet.blogspot.com/.
is that he will not want to end this investigation without indicting someone. If he is exploring a conspiracy charge it is because he wants to indict.
Something no one is leaking about is the possibility of a cover-up, obstruction of justice and perjury. Remember, Rove omitted any reference to Cooper in his first FBI interview. The fact that conspiracy charges are being bandied about means he is still trying to make a larger case than just perjury.
Holding a perjury charge over people might get them to cooperate on the larger issue.
Also, the judges that authorized the jailing of Cooper and Miller thought significant crimes had been committed.
The fact that it was reported that the judges authorized this is the only piece of evidence that gives me hope something will come of this.
But what about Fitzgerald. He was appointed to investigate. He had to do that. Is he trying to limit the damage?
Watergate was just a “third-rate burglary;” the conspiracy is what brought them all down. Wouldn’t that just be something?
Guess W never read Santayana in college. 🙂
Watergate was nothing. But, I believe the house and senate were controlled by the democrats. And they got a real investigation at some point.
This is a republican investigating republicans. I cannot imagine why Fitzgerald would not seek to limit the damage to the people he is beholding to. To the people who got him where he is today.
I don’t want to hear how brilliant he is. There are no brilliant people. If there are, they live apart from the rest of us.
Honest people don’t become State’s attorney’s. That’s on TV. Ambitious, coldblooded, cut throats become states attorneys.
As a former prosecuting attorney, I’d have to disagree with your rhetoric. Lots of decent people doing this jobs. Many political motivations, to be sure. But most I have met care about the law.
I don’t know where this story is going. We will all have to wait and see.
What made you get interested in being a Prosecutor?
When you stopped being one, what made you stop? did you retire or …?
Obviously i was speaking in generalities. But I think that this kind of investigation….the prosecutor chosen for it ….what motivation would James Comey working for John Ashcroft have to put a independent minded prosecutor on a job like this? Do you see my point? There may be a reason that I don’t know but I am unable to smell it out and I am trying, because there are certain things that don’t seem to be adding up in either direction.
Please give us some insight. Be direct
Thanks
I’m in no better position to judge what is going on than you. Like you, I have always been less than impressed with the process that is available now, for the appointment of an independent counsel. Yes, conventional wisdom would tell you, and I, that Bush’s justice department would try to appoint a friendly prosecutor. Yes I’ve been involved in prosecutorial situations where politics have influenced decisions. So, I think a healthy skepticism on the part of Democrats hoping for high indictments is warranted.
The only whiff of independence in the process from my reading of the news, was perhaps some pressure from congressional Dems. Perhaps creating a sense in the Bush justice department that they would pick a friendly prosecutor, but not one so friendly that it would undermine legitimacy and open the door to any possible Congressional investigation. A very minor pressure, if one at all, given the lack of Democratic influence over the Congressional processes.
As for me, I took the position because I saw it as an opportunity to do good public service. And I left when the private sector afforded me a chance to get paid commensurate with my growing family obligations.
And I was being direct. As a prosecutor, I was proud, fair, and dedicated to carrying out the spirit of the law. And many, many I knew were the same. Regardless of their politics. Not to say that politics is not a consideration, because it always is. So, I just didn’t care for your rhetoric, and thought I’d point it out. Lots of people in government are true believers. I was. And I was by no means alone.
Thanks for your reply.
Thank you. For being so considerate as to ask my opinion.
Your rhetoric personally rankled me a bit. Because I was in the group being lampooned. (What luck for you — I mean what were the odds that your hyperbolic comment was going to be read by someone in that small minority).
But it also made me think. I am Mr. Rhetoric. Mr. Hyperbole. Mr. Sarcasm. Or Mr. Snark. Depending on the day of the week. (You see I have this problem with not using my own town or name, so I could be Mr. Anybody).
I probably spit out ten things a day on here that are offensive to some group of people. Because I make broad generalizations and harsh opinions. It is just I do it about groups that don’t probably read this site much. Freepers. Fundies. Etc.
So, I’ve been forced to ask myself, “Self, is it better to write with less flavor than to risk offending those who my rhetoric might offend?” I’m not sure what the answer is.
I don’t think your rhetoric was all that bad, in retrospect. I am sure it was amusing to the audience here at Boo Trib. And I wouldn’t want to discourage you from strong opinion/writing in future. It just struck a nerve. Nobody likes to be called dishonest.
One nice thing about Boo Trib though. Rather than a meta flame war, things like this end up with probing questions and thank yous. I dig civility.
So. Thank You.
.
Fitzgerald needed her testimony to finish his investigation for an indictmend this month.
On topic of WMDs and Iraq, she needed to protect her White House and DoD sources :: all about the DSM, Deceit or Lies. Her contacts within the White House, are most likely Karl Rove, Office of VP Cheney, State – John Bolton, and DoD at the Pentagon.
Working on a diary about Judith Miller, Aspen Institute and CFR. I’ll see what I can add as comment.
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in Maryland? Is this what Libby’s reference in the letter is to? Does Judith Miller usually vacation in Colorado? Why was Libby talking about aspen trees?
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Aspen – Turn in Clusters – Connection – Roots
In my diary, I hope to establish some connections in her double life as “independent” journalist and her close political friends.
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coming up on Lou Dobb’s show (6-7 pm ET).
posted this on the open thread, but maybe I’ll try here, too. Can anyone riddle me this?
Assuming I was an ambitious prosecutor and was about to indict a very high figure in the Executive branch, and I wanted to time the announcement of the indictment for the maximum possible PR bang for the buck, when would I break the story?
(I know I am dreaming of a really big super frog march, and I know my hopes may be dashed, but it is like playing the lottery. Only with the lottery I know the day that they draw the numbers, which led to my question).
Halloween. October 31st. It would have a lot of memorable symbolism and would never be forgoteen.
If I were an ambitious prosecutor,I would hold off ’til the last minute and go for the big splash.
I think Fitzgerald knows exactly what he is doing.Whether this results in a huge Watergate-type scandal is immaterial to him,personally.It’s about his effectiveness. I have no opinion about State’s attorneys in general-have known some good, and some bad.
The political repercussions of this mess are yet to be seen-I can foresee a lot of disillusioned people saying to themselves “OMG ,I TRUSTED these people”, in that way it will mirror Watergate- but not yet,not yet.
Why does she assume that Fitzgerald might want to ask about her WMD reporting?
Because everyone else was making that assumption, the “broader net” reports.
More interesting is why Fitzgerals agreed not to ask her about her WMD reporting. My hunch. There is some aspect of the case that makes Miller possibly a target. If he asked her about her WMD reporting, she would plead the Fifth anyway. Not asking her preserves the ambiguity of whether she is a target or completely off the hook.
Curiouser and curiouser.