Update [2005-10-5 20:10:58 by BooMan]: 22 Indictments?
Pre$$titutes has the rumors:
Interrupting our regular focus on Pre$$titution, we want to let readers know that rumors are flying around D.C. that over a dozen indictments may be coming in the Plame case.
We caution that we are reporting a RUMOR. Nothing more. And this may be absolutely false. Still there is definitely chatter in Washington circles….
UPDATE: AMERICAblog has this teaser: “My source tells me that the scuttlebutt around town is that the White House knows something bad is coming, in terms of Karl getting indicted, and they’re already trying to distance him from the president.”
Lord, let it be true. And now for the best guess on twelve people to be indicted:
Karl Rove, Scooter Libby, John Hannah, John Bolton, Douglas Feith, Scott McClellan, Fred Fleitz, Ari Fleischer, Condileezza Rice, Stephan Hadley, Eliot Abrams, Karen Hughes.
If it were true, it won’t necessarily be WH denizens who will be visited by the process server, right. Could be Novak (though he seems to have covered his ass with some kind of deal) or other so-called pundits who conspired with the WH, no?
At the least, this burst of rumors could indicate that SOME indictments are about to come down. I wonder if prosecutors keep office hours, or do we have to stay up all night waiting to see what happens, just like on election night?
too much to hope for, I know. But what if…?
It depends on who flipped. If Powell flipped, then the whole gang is going to be frog marched, because he was on the plane when the memo came in…in fact it was to him.
ALso, if an agent was killed as a result, then ALL fucking bets are off and the death penalty will be mentioned…that’s the penalty that goes with that crime. That’s high treason and Bush and CHeney will be vulnerable…but it’s all speculation.
Does it matter? Who can sleep with all this indictment excitement? I feel like we should be having a party! I’m hoping for a GOP themed Halloween with everyone wearing black and white stripes. 🙂
I’m there, dood!
Cool! We can have the whole Capitol Hill Chain Gang!
I think orange jumpsuits are the de rigieur prison wear these days…black and white stripes are sooooo 20th century…
Love the list of names…the more names hit, the bigger hit the Bush misAdministration takes, and if it turns out that Bush and/or Cheney were involved in any discussions yet did not reveal that fact…the mind boggles…
I dunno, I like the nostalgia value of the stripes. Reminds me of George Clooney in “Oh Brother Where Art Thou.” I loved that film.
Is you is, or is you ain’t my constit-yancy?
I agree. Plus, I just don’t like the color orange. OTOH, it is Halloween so I think we should leave it in as an option.
I usually refuse to get my hopes up, but in this case I’ll make an exception. (Hey, I’ve been hurt before, I can take it.)
Down, down, down, down. Bad boys goin’ down. Down to the bottom.
Please, please, let it be Bolton. Or Rove. Libby, Feith, Rice. Karen Hughes not so much…she’d scare the inmates. McClellan’s too much of a tool for me to care about either way, but Fleischer…now there’s a rat bastard.
You hear me, tooth fairy? My boy lost a molar today, and when he puts it under his pillow tonight he doesn’t want your dollar in the morning. He wants AN INDICTMENT!
You forgot Cheney.
Your list of twelve soon to be angry men and women BooMan — from your lips to the Flying Spaghetti Monster’s ears man.
George W. Bush and Dick Cheney as “unindicted co-conspirators”.
That would be positively like Christmas.
Plus Harriet Miers
Was reading some speculation on dKos. Interesting stuff. Someone in D.C. overheard some lawyers talking on the street… “They will be released tomorrow and the press will cover nothing else over the weekend.”
I think I predicted a Thursday release of indictments as optimal. Only guessing. Hoping.
Also, speculation on the 123 point drop in Dow. Lots of high-volume, late-day movement… meaning somebody knows big news is coming early Thursday.
Want to see the Frog hopping on a celebratory open thread tomorrow. Know hopes shouldn’t be so high. I was just talking with wife about indictments. And daughter said, “What’s an indictment?” and I said, “A beautiful thing,” and then I thought, and said, “Unless your name is at the top next to U.S. v.”
I need scoop!!!
Problem with the rumor mill diaries all over the place is that it’s the echo chamber coming from a single America blog diary. Now, if there was a different credible-ish rumor out there, I’d be really excited.
I hope it is true. I hope it all comes down on top of them, they deserve no less. My major concern is. . .I think Mr Prez knows the Gov. of Ohio and will just want to take a page out of his book. . .Pardon everyone involved, including himself and anyone in the future who may be indicted. He certainly has the arrogance for it, and I would expect to see it happen if anyone is actually found guilty.
I dread those pardons as well. Bush Sr.’s Iran-contra pardons were a disgrace. Does anyone know if there’s law on the books about presidential pardons? Like if the pres is an unindicted co-conspirator? I’m not sure what the rules are or even if there are any rules.
The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.
He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.
The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session.
limits?
Thanks for the info and link. I’m actually not sure I like the idea of limits, because I do like the notion of someone in this country being able to have mercy and offer a second chance or clean slate without having to justify it. It really is a delightful concept and one I treasure. On the other hand, after the Iran-contra stuff, it doesn’t seem a good idea to allow the president to pardon his cronies whose crimes involved his own office. I suppose if the media were doing their jobs, this second scenario wouldn’t matter so much.
Don’t necessarily worry about pardons…because Joe Wilson has the trump card…CIVIL SUIT and they will all be deposed and there’s no pardon involved in that….march, march, march….
AND, he’ll do it even if they aren’t indicted….He’s the main man.
I can live without the individual vengeance, sweet though it would be. But as long as the indictments (and gods willing, convictions) come down and Bush issues the pardons before election day 2006, it doesn’t get any better than this.
For me, individual vengeance isn’t the problem — I’m actually very much on the side of showing mercy and don’t believe vengeance should really play a role in administering justice.
My dread was because of the ways the pardons were used during Iran-contra. They had the effect of hushing up the entire affair. Because some pardon (or pardons? I’m going from memory) was issued before trial and conviction, many facts were never made public or entered into the public record.
Because of this, the story didn’t gain traction and has allowed the public to think the whole thing was no big deal or not as bad as it was. Many of the people involved who should have been disgraced and never allowed again into positions of the public trust, are openly doing quite well. Crimes of the magnitude of those involved in I-C, once properly established, would have had the affect of tainting forever those involved, even peripherally. Instead the crimes were never properly documented and I have to see Oliver North and Negroponte on my tv.
but I doubt it. Bush is too deep in shit to be able gloss over this string of criminal indictments from every direction. Reagan was liked, for reasons I never understood. Bush is not. Not anymore.
Pardons would be the best campaign issue the Democrats ever had. (Whether they manage to use it is the big question mark.) OTOH, if Bush chickens out on giving pardons, he’s got criminal investigations going on right through the election. IF there really are indictments, and IF they target the individuals we’re all imagining, this is a lose/lose nightmare for the GOP, and there’s nothing Bush can do to make it go away. Be of good cheer.
few repubs would make any issue of it. We will be back looking at same-o same-o after the flurry of reporting on it dies down. HOWEVER, electing a repub would be a difficult thing for people to do after that. Bush had one term only and Clinton had two after him.
…CIVIL SUIT!
Trump card.
Well I have a bet that the President is going to be brought up on Impeachment charges by Dec.. 21, this year. Anyone else want to take me up on that.
I have not lost faith that I am going to win this bet….
and this little bit of news helps my cause for sure.
BTW booman, where did you get 12….I didn’t see any mention of a number, did I miss something.
You really think the Repubs will impeach Bush? That they’ll be that desperate to distance themselves from the Bush Crime Family?
Yes I do, or they will advise him to resign as they did with Nixon. As things get worse, more thngs come out and they will have to do something to regain the faith of their base, which from what I hear from the people commenting on cable news shows, they are disgusted, even good old Ann Coulter over the Meirs nomination.
Things are adding up, charges are adding up…incumbents want to get elected and some will want to run for Pres. They will not want to be too tarred along with the growing outrage.
So anyone care to make a bet with me.
Resignation or impeachment by Dec. 21st. Sounds awfully soon I know, but the walls are tumbling down. How fast they fall, we shall see.
I want too, too much for it to be true.
I don’t think so. Even if this is slam dunk… no double slam dunk, you know how Orwellian they are.
Even if they have a film of the WHIG plotting to go after Wilson by using his wife’s name — they will somehow try to make it seem it was Clinton’s fault and Plame was just a janitor at Langley, and the democrats are unpatriotic, and Bush can’t be implicated because he’s too down to earth and a guy you could have a beer with.
Be prepared for some jaw-dropping truth twisting from the evil-doers.
…it turns out an agent was killed as a result of the leak…
then all bets are off. That’s high treason and if Bush is involved in that, then he will be indicted…impeachment or no.
As a media person (don’t throw stones!), the one person I’d like to see indicted will get off scot-free: Judith Miller.
And, no, Bush won’t be impeached. Sorry, unless Bush is caught in bed with Rove or Jeff Gannon, it ain’t gonna happen. You can take a nation to war, you can destroy an American city, you can kill off the economy and leave our children in debt, but don’t ever have sex in the White House.
To your list if indictees I would add James Wilkinson and Andrew Card, prominent members of the “White House Iraq Group”, (the other members of this group you’ve already named).
WHIG was created for one specific purpose; to spin the war. And given the diabolical nature of the cast of characters in this group, it follows that they’d be the ones to lead the assault on anyone who attempted to refute their absurd lies.
Chris Matthews said that he thinks the indictments will come next week.
That in itself is a big shift–that a MSM talking head is mentioning indictments. Not “possible” or “theoretical” or another weasel word indictments.
could be having their Last Supper.
woohoo! oops better not uncork the champagne just yet.
Remember, these are people who got away with Abu Ghraib, Gitmo, Iraq, Afghanistan, the 2004 rigged election and the 2000 stolen election. They also got away with ignoring warnings about terrorist activities before 9/11.
And look what Bush has gotten away with all his well-connected life.
Damn damn damn damn
Just got home from Costco & I forgot the popcorn.
Americablog now saying — and this is only a rumor — that there are 22 indictments in the hopper. Count ’em. Twenty-two. XXII. Vignt-Deux. Veintidos. Ventidue.
I’m drooling.
Karl Rove, Scooter Libby, John Hannah, John Bolton, Douglas Feith, Scott McClellan, Fred Fleitz, Ari Fleischer, Condileezza Rice, Stephan Hadley, Eliot Abrams, Karen Hughes.
Much as I would love to see Ari Fleischer again, why press secretaries?
I would rather see Newt Gingrich and Grover Norquist indicted. And what about Rummy?
Of course the Abramhoff business may yet Norquist but Gingrich was working the pentagon with Feith and Abrams and that lot during that period.
Still and all, I’ve been politically depressed since ’00 and seeing the people on that list in deep trouble would cheer me immensely.
Booman
If Rove gets indicted, I say you animate the frog…in honor of it.
You know…a little frogmarchin’ merriment would be so sweet.
Maybe we can have someone throw a book at him over and over.
Has serious potential
If these rumors are true that explains the Miers nomination. Bush is shying away from the fight by picking an unknown because he knows his plate is about to overflow. Plus cronyism is the lazy mans way out and we know bush hates work. I think Bush was suprised by his base turning on him because this administration is in a constant state of shock and surprise. Now the indictments, its got to be a bleak atmosphere in the whitehouse tonight. Bush is probably hitting the bottle right now. Maybe I’ll sleep in the basement tonight.
The Washington Post says signal from Prosecutor expected any day:
Also:
Guess Rove’s not crowing about not being a target now.
So if we extrapolate if 12 people committed crimes they also will not work in the administration. He’s lucky he didn’t say indicted.
Bush needs to fire himself then.
in as a kind of Karmic tie. I received a grand jury summons yesterday. As a juror. Federal. Have never got one before.
Frog March! Frog March! Perp Walk! Perp Walk!
Radical Boston and your already worked into a lather, frog march in the perps!
I am going to be so disappointed tomorrow or Friday or at the end of the month when Fitzgerald calls a press conference to say, “The evidence did not support any charge. Thank you.”
I know there’s nothing worse than false hope. Plus knowing these pompous bastards were spreading her name everywhere. There better be some indictments.
That is karmic. But do you know what you could be in for? I did federal grand jury duty once. It was 2-3 days a month for a whole year! Interesting time. But do I remember right that you are a lawyer? If so you already know what it means.
It will mean that any sane prosecutor would not want a lawyer (I’ve worked more defense in my day than prosecution) on his panel.
But honestly, I wouldn’t mind serving at all. I didn’t always like being a lawyer. But being in the courtroom. Well, that is a special place.
Your comments are hilarious. This is good comedy right here. What is this? Some dream list of who you dislike the most to hopefully get charges placed on them? You all need reality pills.
Another reality pill: Why, with all the negative aspects the republicans have placed on themselves, has the democrats gotten their butts handed to them time and time again in these elections? Do you think 2006 is going to be some miracle year? REALITY is different from what is in your mind.
I think it is pathetic. You’ve let the republicans do it, and this is unforgivable. People are still voting on what they believe Republicans SHOULD stand for (rather than what they do) over the Democrats.
You can dance all you want, but these guys will be replaced as quickly as a new commander for Hamas is.
Are you going to come back with your tail between your legs when your allegations and hopes prove miserably false? Unlikely.
The same people who defend and ignore Clinton’s lies under oath are calling Bush a liar. You are hypocrites.
For the record, I thought Ken Starr’s pursuit of Clinton was ridiculous and wasteful of American taxpayer dollars. The Iraq war, of course, is much worse of a waste. I am no Bush fan, but I do like to call things as they are.
You all need to understand this: Rhetoric on the level as many of you have is like “preaching to the choir”. You can say “Bush is an evil war monger! War for oil! blah blah blah” and in a group of 10 people, you will alienate half of them.
If you said, “This war in Iraq is a mess. We should have never gotten involved, and they didn’t even find WMD. We can’t export freedom to countries that don’t understand it.” There are few people who can disagree out of those 10. Of course, you won’t appeal to the 2–3 people who ALREADY agree with you.
Do you want to reach out and speak to people or do you want to speak to your “dittoheads” like Rush Limbaugh speaks to his followers? Because that’s all that I see happening here.
I kind of like you.
We are all well enough informed to not care about alienating a few people. We have documented the crimes, and now we await justice.
You won’t hear me defend Clinton for his idiocy. Clinton is no longer President. Our new President is from a famous crime family, not a single mother on the edge of the Ozarks. Get real.
Let the frog-marching begin.
I find it interesting that you come here and in your first 3 comments you attack this site and the people one it. Why?
I find it odd that you were able to acertain this in how many minutes, or have you been a lurker and just now speaking up.
Who exactly do you think we are reaching out to, apparently not you. But I think you will find that blogs are not designed to reach out to people rather, people have to reach out to find a blog.
We are not under any illusions that what we say here will make a whit of difference in the real world, we are merely discussing, and if you don’t like how we do it perhaps this is not a good site for you.
Really, you might be happier on Daily Kos.
PS, ‘U crack me up’ happens to be one of my least favorite expressions, I nearly put it on my list yesterday, did you miss that list.
Meh, talk away to your “dittohead” blog buddies I guess.
I know that patting each other on the back and calling names is much better than any intelligent conversation on issues. Keep plugging Howard Dean, and keep losing elections and wondering why it is happening. That’s fine with me…
Well, except for the fact that the REPUBLICANS seem to be the only other choice which isn’t very cool at all.
http://www.dailykos.com/ seems OK. I still do not support one party over the other, and they are obviously democrat supporters. ON first glance, it didn’t appear to have the wild rhetoric though.
But from a personal viewpoint, I think there are some republicans better than democrats, and some democrats better than republicans. I’d choose McCain over Kennedy or Boxer any day of the week, but perhaps ANY mainstream democrat over a Frist or Delay (even before they got into trouble). As a matter of fact, when they got nailed, I was happy.
Either way, I think the majority of politicians put special interests first and not the people –democrats included. I might be inclined to support democrats more but their management of government leaves alot to be desired. Particularly on the economic front. I’ll give Clinton alot of credit (along with the republican congress) when he was in charge….well and Greenspan as well.
I’m kind of tired of both republicans & democrats… you got the republicans picking a right wing guy and the democrats picking a left wing guy. I cannot support someone like Kerry, and the democrats lost the election because there were more people like me than they thought. What made them think he could win? If they picked a moderate, he would have CRUSHED Bush. And if Frist was to get the nod for 2008, I’d probably vote for any nearly any democrat just the same.
I’m effin’ pissed at the democrats for this, but that is just my opinion. I’m not going to say I’m right or wrong, but it seems like an unwise choice for them to have made. They could have picked their Reagan-style candidate and crushed an unpopular Bush, but they still blew it. And how do they respond? Calling 1/2 the country idiots. That’s nice…
Those “idiots” are needed to vote for YOUR guy in the next election, so why the name calling?
Anyway…like I said earlier… If your blog is for back-patting, I’m sorry to have intruded. If anyone wants to discuss anything with me on any particular news event or issue, feel free to email at erice004@gmail.com and I promise I won’t insult you even if I disagree 100%.
I’ll refrain from being some small minority voice here which will immediately be written off as a troll simply because I have an opposing view on some issues.
debate is fine, but your tone is not that pleasant. And few people that aren’t drinking republican kool aid use “democrat” when good english would call for “democratic”.
As for a more moderate Dem. Just who would you have suggested? If you voted for Bush, you got what you voted for. Bend over and smile. You have 3 mores years to live with your choice.
Just throwing out some observations:
But from a personal viewpoint, I think there are some republicans better than democrats, and some democrats better than republicans. I’d choose McCain over Kennedy or Boxer any day of the week, but perhaps ANY mainstream democrat over a Frist or Delay (even before they got into trouble). As a matter of fact, when they got nailed, I was happy.
If you were happy when Frist or Delay got nailed, then why all the consternation when our group of liberal bloggers (and that’s what we are, liberal — proud, liberal bloggers who care about our country) starts talking and cheering about the news that a) the chief advisor to the President has b) been discussed at a grand jury c) considering criminal charges, and where d) his lawyer in the past has adamantly denied being “the target” of this investigation, and e) last night, suddenly changes his tune to “no comment.” Sorry friend, my intuition tells me you are someone who is secretly a little worried that your president is about to get turned on a spit, and you wanted to see how the other half lives for a minute or two. Something, I guess, I can understand. 🙂
But you aren’t going to hear a lot of apologies here, about our dislike of this president, his policies, and the fact that he and his cronies may just go down hard.
Either way, I think the majority of politicians put special interests first and not the people –democrats included. I might be inclined to support democrats more but their management of government leaves alot to be desired. Particularly on the economic front. I’ll give Clinton alot of credit (along with the republican congress) when he was in charge….well and Greenspan as well.
Before you come on here and lecture anyone about the economic benefits that accrue to the country thanks to Republican governance, I would really like you to look at the state of the U.S. budget for the last 25 years, in times of both Republican administrations and Democratic administrations. The party you have some notion of, as the party of economic restraint, has consistently been a disaster.
Just a last thought. You came here. You didn’t pick the best thread to educate yourself. But there are lots of things on this site that would educate you. I have a young sister who was once a Republican, and sounded much like you, in some of her thoughts. I think if you stay, lurk and read — and check out what is said hear versus the reality of the world, you may find you understand the people here so well — you might just find yourself drifting into a new political reality.
Best of luck to you in the coming months. I get the feeling that they may not be pleasant for someone of your current political constitution.
And by that, I mean the Christmas of 2008.
IF that happens, and IF some/all of them face actual time in the pokey, and IF they were to be convicted of a felony, wouldn’t it be a joyous thing to see some of them deprived of their right to vote in their home states (all of them if they move to Florida and Jeb Bush is governor, heh).
The thing is, unless someone goes to jail, some folks that aspire to government office will still think that power destroys all accountability, and that they can get away with everything if they just win elections. It’s that hubris that needs to be quashed for our government to ever work again.
For even non-Plame-related acts pushed by the triumverate of the Republican Hypocrisy Machine are treasonous in my opinion. If “treasonous” is too harsh a word for your mind, then think hateful or un-American (un-American is just about the worst name these people think they can throw around).