I don’t like the Absinthe ad because I don’t think a progressive site should be advertising intoxicants (is the stuff considered liquor?)
Also, the ad itself, showing a beautiful woman with cleavage…what’s next an ad for Budweiser with the Swiss Mudwrestling Team?
I’ve got nothing against beautiful women and cleavage, but using them in ads for anything besides clothing seems kind of demeaning to me.
What do the rest of you think?
I don’t like it either for the same reasons, and it’s not what I expect to see here, but I don’t find it offensive as in pie. It’s just kinda stupid noise like most ads (present company excepted). “yet keeping people awake and energized at the same time”? Puhlease!
is mine:-)
“Keeping people awake and energized at the same time” takes on a whole ‘nother meaning when you put the girl next to the bottle, doesn’t it?
Somehow I’m not thinking Van Gogh and Oscar Wilde anymore, but the hyperlinks to Can-Can dancers and the Bolero remain active…
I think there ought to be a viagra ad immediately following it.
Hemmingway and Van Gogh thought it was great……(supposed to be funny). If my boobs grow and perk up like hers, or if I believe to myself that they did then YaHoo look out husband!
It is really funny when you look at the ad like that! Now I’m finding Ms. Absinthe downright inspirational,peering seductively through her hair at me as I post comments.
This absinthe is a pricey indulgence.
Please do tell. Now that my comments have backed me into a corner of not visiting that site during cleavage hours . . .how much for a bottle of this mysterious liquid?
But I’m at work, where my corporate firewall strips off that ad and a few others (although all the Powells ones are intact). So I’m just remembering from my browsing at home last night and may be wrong.
Thanks for your on-the-job reply. That price range is definitely out of my league for a product I have yet to sample. But that’s a very good thing to know so I won’t need to click on the ad during its bosom phase.
Good night!
Better than contractor’s cleavage…
Eeeeeewww!
Retired Contractor’s Cleavage on your own father! My fricken eyes are broken now!
You know what’s worse than that? Ex-husband’s contractor’s cleavage…ughhhh. (CG runs retching to bathroom)
league cleavage?
At least the bottle they show next to the cleavage isn’t shaped like a phallus, though the look on her face leaves little doubt what the message is.
I’ve clicked on the ad and still can’t figure out what exactly Absinthe is and if it’s legal to buy or drink in the U.S. But since I get drunk on a tablespoon of Bailey’s Irish Cream in a cup of coffee, I’m not exactly an expert on liquor.
My reaction was like yours; when the ads first started I thought “Absinthe? I thought that was illegal and poisonous… Something to do with 18th-19th century artists and writers being very creative, then going mad and dying.”
So I went to wikipedia where there is a very good article on absinthe, everything from the chemistry of making it to the medical effects (the dangers are very overstated, apparently), to the social and artistic associations, to the legality (There is some uncertainty as to whether it’s legal in the US, but you’re OK in Canada and the UK.). An interesting read.
Thanks for the link – very interesting read. I often wondered about the mysterious drink that was frequently consumed by one of the characters in Carnivale, and now that mystery has been solved. (I had previously assumed it was an opiate)
I also left the site with the impression that it’s illegal to sell Absinthe in the U.S.
I didn’t know absinthe was legal, but whatever. And I’ve gotta wonder what turnip truck you just jumped off of, ‘cos really, you’ve never seen boobs in advertising? I’m sorry, but it looks like someone’s trying to start another pie fight.
But maybe you’re not trying to tell Booman what kind of ads he should run. Maybe you’re just making a statement about advertising in general. Maybe it’s a slow news day. Maybe, even, your name gives you away, and you’re just another goofball making a silly joke. But that would be stupid, wouldn’t it?
I’m not trying to be nasty and sorry if I seem so. I’m just impatient with rehashing old arguments. Be thankful you’re not looking at tightie rightie ads that run on wingnut sites. It’s all Ann Coulter, all the time. Frankly, I’d rather look at boobies than Skeletor!
I, too, don’t like the objectification of women, but there will be no stopping it until either women like the one in the ad stop allowing themselves to be in that position, or men stop thinking about sex 24/7.
It’s perfectly possible to think about sex all the time without objectifying anyone. It’s also perfectly possible to create sexy ads without objectifying anyone.
I agree.
I think the woman in the current ad is sexy. And I don’t think that her being sexy and wearing a low cut top = her being objectified either… it’s not as if she’s licking a lollypop or spread out on the hood of a car…
but that’s just me.
My interpretation of this ad is similar to yours. This specific ad does not offend me in any way, whether in form or substance.
Truth be told, I wasn’t particularly offended by the pie ads either — although they were clearly sexually objectifying and wholly inappropriate for a mainstream political website that wants to be taken seriously, and prior to the whole blowup I’d have expected that only a fool or a Republican would argue those points. Anyway, my problem during those days wasn’t about the ads, it was about what I felt was a pisspoor mentality on the part of Kos about responding to people’s concerns about them, and the way that mentality was then encouraged on his site.
yup. sensitivity and common sense make all the difference. oh, and being a grown up.
all of which BooMan most certainly is.
Agreed. This woman is sexy but it has been done in a reasonable way. It’s not exactly bare-assed Ginger mounting Maryanne. Personally, I find the product more disturbing than the ad.
From a marketing perspective, I think the advertiser blundered significantly. The previous ad drew me in to learn more about the product. (Well, that and the fact that I recently watched a CSI rerun in which they commented on the illegal nature of Absinthe being served in bars.) When the advertiser switched to cleavage, the ad became just another sexist promotion – which I automatically ignore. (Plus it eliminated my interest in the product)
Aside from that . . . meh. (I was more concerned by a previous ad for mystery shopping. Paying a fee for links to mystery shopping sites is an ongoing scam, as the information is freely available to the public.)
Having previously done business with Blogads, I have a little insight into the process. Blogads provides data to the advertiser, including overall site traffic and number of clicks, and then they do the math for you 😉 and give you the percentage of clicks/volume. So assuming that the advertiser is paying attention to the data that’s being generated, they should notice a downturn in views if the members of a site are genuinely offended and therefore not clicking on an ad.
Isn’t this a wonderful medium? Imagine if Budweiser or AFLAC knew every time that you muted your television!
From some of the comments, I agree. The advertiser isn’t likely to get many people on this progressive site to click on their link because of the breasts and likely will turn a few people off because of it. Because I am familiar with absinthe and even tried it once or twice, I clicked on the link the other day. I’ll probably even order some when I have some money in the vague future, but they could do a little smarter targeted marketing (ie, know the places they are advertising at least a little bit).
BooMan said in another diary that he wasn’t thrilled with the ad change, and that he had no say in changing ads- other than to give back the money.
I stand here in my Pie Wars uniform, purple heart pinned on, and say that BooMan’s attitude makes all the difference. He is respectful and thoughtful. That goes a long way towards making me shug it off. After all, those of us who were in combat didn’t complain because of the pie ad specifically, but the attitudes it reflected.
BT rocks.
and, Boo was the first one to open the floor to discussion by so gracefully asking when the ad grew cleavage in an open thread (same one as you ref Tehanu)… he wanted feedback and I’m pretty sure if it meant that much to the majority of us he’d ask them to pull it.
That being said, I’ll repeat what I said in that thread.
Nothing wrong with a beautiful woman in an ad… they are everywhere. If it crossed the line into pie-wrestling that would be a differenet story. Now in terms of if a progressive site should be advertising an intoxicant… ummm… just because I’m a liberal don’t mean I don’t like to get my freak on ya know… and I am an adult and all, able to make up my own mind… as far as I know we aren’t promoting the site to children (although does Anomalous count??) 😉
And finally, Boo needs ads to survive and I trust that if it was a really offensive ad he would pull it… until then let’s let the guy make some dough so we all still have a home to hang out at.
What Spider said.
The ad is puerile and I respect that it bothers wry twinger and perhaps others.
But the “pie fight” was about attitudes, not ads. Attitudes I just never see here. That’s why this thread isn’t going to go there.
I personally don’t care if BooMan leaves this one up, because I find it just stupid, not offensive. If it’s a financial loss to him or even a hassle to pull it, I hope others would take this into account. I bend to the will of the majority and our proprietor in either case.
What alohaleezy said about what spiderleaf said.
Amen to that! Boo handled it very well, as I would expect.
I’m recommending this diary for the sake of getting Booman’s comments about how the blogad process works the widest possible exposure; some folks apparently missed the open thread.
If Booman has the time and the willingness, I’d be interested to know if he conducts any type of due diligence with the advertisers, to ensure that they aren’t scam artists. Just curious.
I think it’s interesting that no one has objected to the graphics on the Gabriel Garcia Marquez book. While Mr. Marquez isn’t promoting liquor, the graphics seem pretty similar to the Absinthe ad.
It has become a way of marketing life that bodies sell. The ad is reasonably discreet and doesn’t cross the line into the pie war area. Would it be better if it was a muscle man picture instead? Not to me and I suspect not to others.
The ad had my attention earlier and like others I clicked on the original ad…being a serial clicker here! ;^D
This is just one more in the scheme of marketing. FYI I watch a fair amount of cable tv…including Spike and Lifetime…one caters to male audiences and one to female audiences. Ads – that’s what mute buttons are for.
IF the ads turn to pie war style – I’ll be the first to come up with a $100 contribution to replace the lost revenue Booman would lose from pulling it. AND I have faith that Booman would pull it.
on ads in progressive blogs, and not suggest that Booman pull the ad.
I would, though, be willing to donate money to the site to keep it up and running rather than see liquor or cigarette or McDonald’s ads on the site.
You did a great job too and we appreciate it. Like KP above – I recommended this diary so we can get more discussion from the Tribe here.
We ignore the ads until they cross the line because we are so inundated with them. Since the ad changed it’s one that I haven’t clicked on…so serial clicking has it’s own mute button.
I’ll recommend as well and jump into the discussion…
First, I highly doubt Boo would accept a McDonald’s ad right off the bat, if they even tried to advertise on Blogads, which is a progressive ad network.
In terms of liquor… there are some who don’t have a moral problem with it… just as there are some who have no problem with marijuana. Now if Boo were a liberal cannabis activist, would you have a problem with him accepting those ads? Now, liquor is not purely natural, but it does go towards freedom and choice of what you do with your own body, which is a liberal value. So why can’t we have ads for said products on our websites? How is it offensive to our values?
I guess before I get further into this debate I’d like to know how you define what progressive values are and why liquor (I can understand cigarettes as they are infused with toxins to make people addicted) is off-limits.
I have nothing morally against it, and I drink it myself.
I guess it’s the history of liquor companies using such reprehensible marketing techniques as subtly advertising towards teenagers, targeting minorities in low-income neighborhoods, etc. I just don’t think that alcohol companies are very responsible advertisers.
or that Booman had opened it up to discussion already.
So sorry for the redundancy.
quick recap –
the ad was different coloured bottles for a few weeks. Then Boo left town to head to WW’s daughters funeral. While he was gone the ad changed. As soon as he got back he asked about it in an open thread. The consensus was basically, yeah it was a stupid move from a marketing perspective and we would prefer they weren’t using cleavage to sell the product, but meh, it’s not degrading, just another stupid decision that “sex sells”… finally, Boo mentioned that with blog ads he has first approval of the ad and advertiser (in this case the diff coloured bottles), but they can change it at any time after that without his approval. His only recourse is to complain or pull the ad.
I doubt complaining would do much good since the ad runs across numerous sites and the advertiser would just weigh the cost/benefit analysis of developing new creative… and in terms of pulling the ad, Boo would lose the revenue which he needs… so unless we are all REALLY offended it just didn’t seem like a big deal.
I recommended this diary because I missed the conversation in the Open Thread and I think others might have also.
I know I’ve had some general questions about it (not the girl part — the legal part) — and this seems like as good a place as any for people to see the answer to any questions.
no worries on my part, I’m happy to share my knowledge (for what it’s worth) and perspective for anyone who missed the convo yesterday.
From a legal perspective, it seems to fall under one of those impractical laws – such as the laws in Wisconsin that allow the sale of fireworks, but don’t allow citizens to use many of them within the state (either that, or I think the state might only allow non-Wisconsinites to purchase the fireworks altogether).
From an advertising perspective, I used to be responsible for authorizing the marketing materials for a national organization. The process was impossible to control if anyone wanted to circumvent the system. And lo and behold, the circumventing always took place when the marketing department knew they had crossed the line with industry regulations, while also knowing there wasn’t a damn thing I could do about it once the pieces had reached the public.
Ummm… Hi… Hello… ??
whaaaaa…. you’ve been in this thread the whole time and didn’t say hi to me… sniff… what on earth did I do to offend the supreme leader of the snark brigade A?? Have I been shunned and just don’t know it? Is this why people have been snickering out me in the FBC?
sniff I say. sniff.
(sorry for the thread hijack, but rest assured it was most crucial…)
I too, once submitted a “crucial sniff”. To a site member who never responded. To this day, that sniff stands alone. Unacknowledged. No comments. No ratings. Just . . . a lonely . . . sniff. And the pain-filled memories of sitting at my computer, anxiously – yet patiently – waiting for a reply. Minute after minute. Hour after hour. Day after day. Week after week. Anxiously – yet patiently – waiting for a reply. . . (Forgive me, but I’m “link impaired”)
****************
sniff. . . (none / 0)
“I don’t put anyone on a pedestal. Because no one deserves it.” No one? 🙁
by Anomalous on Fri Oct 7th, 2005 at 04:22:22 PM CST
[ Parent | Reply to This ]
Ductape Testimonials
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And with that, Good Day, S! ;^)
I just gave you a 4 on that comment to foil your efforts at self-pity.
bwahaha.
Damn you. Minute after minute, hour after hour, day after day and week after week I’ve been indulging myself in the most spectacular pity party.
Leave it to someone from A2 to pull the rug out from under me. ;^) (But thanks for the 4 – you could’ve given me a 0. Then again, you likely knew I’d simply unpack the streamers and throw myself another shindig.)
Good day!
sniff!
Well, I guess I thought the whole concept of a pity party was the aloneness and solitude of it all. (The better to wallow in)
But heck – if you’d like me to include you in any future pity parties, you – and all the other Cabin inhabitants – are more than welcome to the invite list. In fact, I believe I’ll be serving Absinthe – (along with non-alcoholic beverages of the Cabin Boys’ choosing. ;^)
Good day!
Didn’t your mama tell you misery loves company? 😉
The green absinthe is such a pretty color (hint, hint)…
Along with the pretty liquor color, I found the boob lighting to be nicely artistic – as cavernous as the cleavage may be. ;^) My only issue with the ad is that the boobs are just so darn distracting while I’m trying to type. If I’m going to be distracted by site graphics, it would be a nice change of pace to see a few good packages. Boxer Boy provided a fine start to that process. (And I certainly hope that last comment isn’t “ban worthy”)
“Nobody knows the problems I’ve seen.
Nobody knows but Geeeeeeee-juuuuusssssssssss”
Cue mournful violins
🙂
I don’t like the visuals for Absinthe Ad or the ad for “Memories of My Melancholy Whores.” (And don’t get me started on that book title!)
The sad fact is advertising products using sex-linked images is very effective for product awareness and increasing sales. To a advertiser ‘All publicity is good; good publicity is better,’ and the ad has achieved an increase in publicity for the product – We’re talking about it, right?
And thus a bind: if it isn’t discussed then he use of objectification can proceed on the original visual level and if it is discussed then the goal of greater product awareness is achieved.
Ultimately the only way to slow-down – I’m cynical enough to think there is no way to halt – these ad campaigns is to refuse to purchase the product. Given the existence of ‘Ad and Shelf Clutter’ only minor consumer resistence is enough to cause a new product to fail. Once enough new products, introduced through these types of ad campaigns, fail, because of these types of ad campaigns, a negative feedback loop to the advertising companies will be generated letting them know of the heightened risks by using these ad techniques.
And before I’m pilloried for what I did not say: I am not saying, “Sit down and Shut Up.” I am saying talking must lead to enough consumers not buying the product to cause the new product launch to fail.
It would seem from the tone of the comments here that discussion is good and that most, if not all of us, will not buy the product. If there was a divided debate on the product the advertiser might consider bad publicity good here. We aren’t divided. The ad is creating a discussion of sexist ads, legality of a product, and a lot of consumer information.
If I were the advertiser, I’d be concerned that this is the reaction to the ad from the progressives they are targeting. We read the ad without the woman in the picture. Now we are objecting the sexist advertising and not looking at their site.
the lingering effects of The Great Pie-Fight(TM) from a male perspective. 😉
a few people will coment here on this…most wont….progressives like boobies just like everyone else….they respond to sex in advertising the same way everyone else does…ok maybe republicans respond a little more…
i like boobies
can we get some escort ads?
why cant we advertise sex instead of just advertising other things WITH sex?
arent progressives progressive about sex?
legalize pot and prostitution
women should be paid to have sex in my opinion (men too if they can get it)
had ruined it. The blinking bottles is what caused my whole family to demand me to click on the ad to see what it was all about. Now my teenager daughter would just turn around having completely ignored it because she is appropriately shy about her sexuality and the ad is pretty breast blatant! This is advertising though right now, we can change it as consumers but this is where it is at this time. Booman Tribune must go on and we must advertise and I have learned through the whole pie war thing that the sites don’t get to hand pick the ads so I will live with it. It is a long way from pie fighting video clips, but I still don’t particularly care for the ad myself and would live easier without having to look at it today. I’ll live though.
exactly Tracy.
And a good place to start changing things is with your own daughters, sisters, nieces, etc. Tell them why it doesn’t have to be used to sell & how woman have been fighting this battle for decades; but also let them know that the human body is beautiful and that there is nothing to be ashamed of in being sexy or alluring or feeling proud of who you are and what you look like… on the inside and outside… and then you can tell them all about the evils of corporations just for good measure 🙂
But you don’t need to do, or look at, or purchase, anything that makes you uncomfortable.
Here’s a link to the Open Thread yesterday where the ad was discussed.
I don’t see a problem. I was curious, and clicked on it, not for Boo’s numbers, but actually to read the ad. If I had the money I might even try it. Who cares about cleavage? That stuff barely registers with me unless it’s blatant (like the pie ads).
No big deal.
and is using it in her term paper about prohibition. So something good comes of just about everything at some time!!!
the reason Absinthe is illegal is because it contains opiates. That’s original absinthe. This is probably the legal variety with the opiates taken out and it taste like pernod. I believe here in Europe you can actually find the original absinthe in the Czech Republic, but I’m not sure 100%. My two cents as a recovering drunk.
Recommended as well.
I’m learning more everyday. I was feeling OK about my daughter drinking it when she was visiting friends (after reading the wikipedia article).
But, she was visiting friends in the Czech Republic and now I’m back to not being so happy about it.
(sigh — knowledge might be good, but sometimes it’s depressing)
Well, as for an experiment, I wouldn’t get too worked up. The artists and writers at the turn of the 20th century were drinking it heavily and became addicted (I’m writing my dissertation on Bertolt Brecht and I also delve into the German Expressionists who drank it heavily). But I wouldn’t worry too much, just chock it up to experimentation.
their ears off and sat in mental institutions painting freaky painting worth millions now, but dont’ worry!
LOL – ain’t that the truth!
or I should say that my husband is. Don’t overly worry about it. She is still here with us and made it through the whole experience unscathed. Too much of everything will kill you, if you drink too much water it will kill you.
And as far as the cleavage and tits go, if I was on absinthe, I probably wouldn’t give a flying f**k what flashed before my eyes. God, it’s good to be sober!!!!
Agreed. The ad is tacky. The breasts are gratuitous and therefore sexually objectifying. Ads for intoxicants are notoriously manipulative. Some liquor ads even contain subtle death images, playing to the subconscious death wish of addicts. On the plus side, as Gloria Steinem notes, in her excellent article about the impact of advertising on editorial policy, liquor companies are the most hands-off when it comes to editorial control. When you’re essentially a drug pusher, the content of a publication is not your worry. Alcoholism is a cunning, baffling, powerful disease, that supercedes logic and reason. Absinthe was made illegal in the US because it contains essence of wormwood, which is potentially toxic. Here is an article on its history.
are the CU students who use alcohol vaporizers. (I’m not linking to any because I don’t want to help their Google rank.)
They’re small, battery-powered devices that turn a shot of liquor into a gas you breathe in. It reaches the bloodstream much more quickly that way, but the real selling point is that getting drunk this way can defeat many traditional breathalyzer tests.
In practice, it simply makes it much easier to get dangerously drunk before you know it. Livers need not apply. And while my chemist colleagues can probably explain why breathing gaseous OH is bad, what worries me relates to your comment about absinthe, Recordkeeper.
Students use whiskey, lemon vodka, and peppermint Schnapps in these things. Do you know what’s in whiskey? Peat and wood for one, and much odder things in some versions. Who knows what’s in Jagermeister? Do you want to breathe that? Fucking A.
Maybe this isn’t news to you, but it was to me.
As a chemist, I can tell you that when I saw those alcohol vaporizers my immediate reaction was “Holy Fucking Christ!! That’s the scariest thing I’ve seen in a while!!” Mrs K.P., a veterinarian, had the same reaction.
Well, now that you mention the Swiss Mud Wrestling team….
I don’t think the absinthe ad is over the top to the extent that the infamous pie ad was, but yes, it’s obviously using sex to sell a product. I’m not sure that’s a bad thing in and of itself, though. It’s not like sex is a bad thing. The pie ad consisted of two scantily-clad women making asses of themselves enacting a stereotypical cat fight for the exclusive sake of male titillation. The absinthe ad simply features an attractive model in what I presume is a black evening dress looking at the audience. It’s a bit heavy on the cleavage, yes, but it’s not hard to imagine the same ad with an attractive male model. The same cannot be said for the pie ad, at least not while keeping a straight face.
The thing that was most offensive about the pie ad was Kos’ response to complaints about it. I thought that ad was in exceptionally poor taste, but I had pretty much shrugged it off until Kos opened his mouth. Then I left. BooMan, on the other hand, expressed concern about what was apparently a bait-and-switch advertising buy right from the get go. I would recommend more care in the future, but I greatly appreciate and respect his position on the issue.
As an advocate for drug legalization, the promotion and sale of intoxicants doesn’t bother me. This country was at its most progressive when pot and LSD were most widely available, and I don’t believe that was a coincidence.
I saw a great big 20 foot tall red SATAN standing in a parking lot.
That’s exactly why you weren’t supposed to do the brown acid, Militarytracy. 😉
Wandering around in parking lots on acid probably wasn’t such a hot idea, either.
At the risk of veering dangerously off-topic, my point was that hallucinogens often show you new ways of thinking or ways in which your current thinking has become unnecessarily narrow and rigid. They won’t make you a liberal, but it is rather hard to be a dogmatic conservative on acid.
In a purely political sense, the criminalization of drugs has been accompanied by an enormous expansion in police powers and a parallel contraction of civil rights, among many other social ills.
That was you in the parking lot?
I took a lot of LSD one day years ago, and went to see Barry Goldwater speak in a large auditorium at Princeton.
I like to challenge myself. Usually when I used to take hallucinogens I’d just go hiking or icefishing, so this was something new.
Goldwater kept going on and on about “the enemy.” (This was soon after the collapse of the Soviet Union, a watershed event that immediately made my chosen major worthless.) He simply could not talk about anything without putting it in a 1950s Cold War context.
I could take it no longer and starting saying (my roommate described it later as screaming) “I didn’t know we were at war! I didn’t know we were at war!”
I got real calm and quiet as the nice security man walked me out, where the sun was shining. I found a friend and we walked out to Battle Monument Park. We laughed our asses off for hours, lying in the grass near the memorial to Colonel Haslet, who had died there 210 years earlier in the Revolutionary War.
then I saw the devil when we were leaving the party. It was a very nice party though we were all underage that was happening in a hotel suite. It got busted and escaping it was when Satan made his entrance……what a jerk, like I didn’t have enough stuff to worry about right then. I was a babysitting problem for the rest of the night. My sitters attempted to attend a house party but they got thrown out because I was “feeling the paint” on the painting in the foyer. I vaguely remember this other girl screaming in my face something about not to do that and parents upset and blah blah blah. What a wild ride and then I woke up the next morning and no headache or blood! Very wierd…..I would never say that I am a good candidate for acid in any place at any time. I smacked some guy pretty hard too because he wouldn’t agree to help me save starving children in Africa, and I was speaking to them telepathically or something.
I knew I recognized you from somewhere… 😉
Yes, but shouldn’t the marijuana ads have Cheech and Chong in them and not a busty woman!!
Well, sure. And it would have been far better if the absinthe ad depicted 19th century Parisian intellectuals discussing art over absinthe in a cafe. And since the ad has nothing at all to do with the subject matter of the site, it would be better still if it weren’t here at all, busty woman or no.
I don’t think the absinthe ad is good, just that there are ads that are a lot worse (cough pie fight cough) and blog admins who are unapologetic pricks about it (cough Kos cough).
I want to say from the outset, that I have NO interest in any “pie wars” here. But seeing this ad over the last couple of days has re-surfaced some of the questions IN ME that were left unanswered by that whole mess.
I agree with everyone else that the “pie wars” was primarily about the reaction of Kos and others on the site to the feedback. But I also began thinking about when stuff like this bothers me and why. For me, the answer is not simple or easy to identify. So maybe some of you can help me out.
I do feel uncomfortable about the absinthe ad. Its not a big deal to me – but it does bother me a bit to see it here. Whereas the ad for the Gabriel Garcia Marquez book does not. I think that one is really inviting and beautiful.
So, what’s the difference? This is what has me intrigued. I have some thoughts, but would love to hear from others.
but I, personally, give leeway to “art” as opposed to an ad for liquor.
Of course, the book company, and Marquez, are both trying to sell the book so could be accused of using gratuitous images and words for marketing…
The only difference here is working-class porn marketing vs. “refined” porn marketing.
The mammary glands have the same effect on two different audiences. They both are intended to send chills down the contractor’s spine and the bourgeoisie’s collective spine.
It comes down to context. The jacket art is consistent with the book’s content and has artistic merit. The message of the entire package is complex. The message of the ad is simple: Here are some boobs. You want Absinthe.
Women tend to see things more contextually. It’s like the female comedian who tried to explain to men in the audience that for women, “Sex is like real estate. Location. Location. Location.” Men tend to be less picky about the environment, as long as there is sex involved. In the pie wars, a lot of men couldn’t understand why where such a titillating ad was placed, a progressive site, mattered. What’s wrong with a little titillation with my news? To the female psyche it tends to matter more.
A sensual image of a woman on a book with a sexual theme makes sense. I don’t see what such an image has to do with an intoxicant. It seems gratuitous and manipulative. If I’m reading erotic material on the Clean Sheets website, I expect to see equally erotic images. If I’m getting caught up on news events, I don’t, and I find it jarring.
That’s my two cents.
Must…buy…absinthe…<drool>…
Thanks Recordkeeper – I thought a lot of my reactions to these kinds of things had to do with context. And it is interesting to think about that perhaps being part of people’s different reactions. It might break down generally on gender lines, but like other things, not completely.
And on another topic, I’m not always so happy to have DeLay and Bush staring at me as I read here either. Even though I know the ad is critical of them and WalMart. Its just not a pleasant experience. But I’ll live with it.
Thanks all for the great discussion!
I have a visceral reaction to Bush’s face. The sound of his voice is like nails on a chalk board. I know I should listen to his speeches to stay informed, but I just can’t. It makes me want to puncture my own ear drums. DeLay looks like the rats he used to exterminate. There’s something in that.
Perhaps that’s why I’m sensitive to advertising images too. I can’t be dispassionate about a lot of sensory input. It affects me.
So it’s wrong that I’m falling in love with her? Because if that’s wrong, I don’t want to be right.
Actually I never want to be on the right. Some would say I’m never right. Some would say I’m not right in the head.
is because I’m at work and every time I see her picture I get turned on…a guy can only take so many bathroom breaks!
I had until now assumed you were female, simply because you spoke up about an arguably sexist ad. Now I’m all meta-chagrined.
I could care less about the absinthe ad. What I am waiting for is to see if Booman will come on and denounce wry twinger as a member of the sanctimonious women’s studies set. <snark–or at least 1/2 snark>
Don’t pigeonhole me! I’m part of the sanctimonious anti-ad set!
According to the advertiser, absinthe isn’t illegal.
From the ad:
Frequently Asked Questions
Is Absinthe legal?
Yes! In the United States, Absinthe is not a controlled substance, but selling it in bars and liquor stores is banned. Absinthe is legal to purchase and possess in the United States. In most of the European Union, Absinthe may be sold as long as it stays at 10mg of thujone. In Canada, Absinthe is completely legal and on sale in some liquor stores.
But the ad is tacky. Most adverts are tacky.
in an open thread but I’ll expand a little here so people are clear about the ads and how they work.
When someone purchases an ad for BT or ET, I get an email with a link to my blogads account. I click on it and it sends me to my ad page. There I see that an ad has been submitted. I can click on it and look at the image before I dedide to approve it. I also have an email address, so I can write the advertiser if I have any questions or concerns (the address is not always one that anyone checks).
Once I approve the ad it usually take anywhere from 5 minutes to an hour to show up on the site. The blogads are prepayed, not payed by the click, so as soon as I approve the ad, it is payed for for the whole run. The absinthe ad was a nice big month-long buy.
During that month the advertiser can change the image anytime they want without my preknowledge or preapproval. I once emailed an advertiser to complain about a change and they changed it for me.
If you remember the Photo Fair, the ad was changed frequently to reflect the nearing approach of the fair. An ad gets boring after a while, so a month long buyer is likely to make a change or two.
I can’t complain, but since the ad is prepaid, I can’t take it down without refunding all the money. It would be a clever trick to get a couple weeks free advertising and then switch to something offensive so I had to cancel the ad and refund the money.
Anyway, that is how it works, and I wasn’t exactly thrilled to see the change in this absinthe ad.
I can complain but…
I’m just amazed that absinthe is advertising. Every aspect of it is fascinating to me.
I’m completely indifferent to the ad itself, girl or no girl.
Booman, how do I change my time stamp to reflect that daylight savings time has gone bye bye? How do I get to “display preferences”?
Go to ‘User Pages’, click on the Settings tab, and then look for the link to ‘Interface Preferences’. It’s the top item 🙂
Look at the top of the site where you see the tab for your own page, mouse over it until the menu drops down and you see Settings. Click Settings. Then click Interface Preferences. Look at the top of your options for the dropdown box where you can set your time zone. Don’t forget to click save at the bottom.
hold your cursor over the box (at top center) that has your name in it (your page). A drop down box should appear. Click on settings. Then click on the green hyperlink that says ‘interface settings’.
Or click on ‘User pages’ on the right.
of major importance. (And, no absinthe was not involved.) I just realized that daylight savings time has NOT gone bye bye, it has just begun. NOW is daylight savings time. It doesn’t happen in the summer. (Who would want to save daylight then.)
Wow, this site really gives you a new perspective on life.
and you should try not to get derailed by people like us who are already too accustomed to blogs created by people with no sense of beauty or style, and which follow many unspoken taboos. In truth, men and women love looking at beautiful women. Let them. Also see my comment below.
Thanks for explaining that process so well.
You’re facing a bit of a paradox, and one that’s unlikely to go away without your help.
To whatever degree your editorial format attempts to be asexual and sexually neutral, Booman Tribune’s sexuality will wind up being defined first by the most assertive advertisers; and next, by their opponents and would-be censors; and ultimately, your role will tend to be subtractive rather than constructive. At worst, you could be reduced to pleasing the most vocal “disgusted” viewers by enforcing an unofficial decency code that would make James Dobson proud.
Instead, consider defining the sensibility here more pro-actively and pre-emptively, since that helps make this problem go away. For instance, at MyLeftWing the proprietress freely uses images that are both provocative and tasteful eye-candy – typical recent instances include Angelina Jolie, Marilyn Monroe, and even Patrick Fitzgerald (yes, he is modest but readers say they want to have his baby). Typically they adorn the Open Threads. One net effect is, no ad or advertiser that appears there is going to accidentally redefine the community’s apparent sexual values. This tradition may be more due to the blogmother’s personality than a premeditated solution, but it works.
(I tried to make this point elsewhere in this thread, but I used a more controversial example, stumbled repeatedly in the resulting hailstorm, and several readers seemed to miss the point. I’m sorry I wasn’t more articulate.)
Unless you want to censor, ban, or severely restrict sexuality here, you and the other adults may as well embrace it – even in imagery. Since this seems to be a fairly liberal place, an open, playful, respectful attitude would probably fit well with this community’s values.
I’m relatively new here, so feel free to let me know if this makes sense and is appropriate in context…
I didn’t mind the ad to start with and was even intrigued by it now with the addition of drinking breasts I find I’m mildly disgusted and won’t bother with ad.
This isn’t the same as the blatantly stupid and sexist Gilligan ad which drove me up the wall…we’ve come a long way baby-Not. As others have mentioned also the pie wars while starting with that ad became a war of attitudes concerning that add and showed that sexist attitudes continue to abound in so many who only think they are progressives.
I realize sex sells or maybe we should be clear and it’s women in ads that are objectified not men-of course it could be said that if men are so easily led by just seeing a woman’s body that they’ll go out and buy something just who is being objectified-women for sex or men for stupidity?
The reason an ad like this strikes any kind of nerve with me personally is not that this particular ad is so offensive but the fact that it’s the crushing weight of the whole ad industry that continues to use women’s bodies day in and day out to sell anything and everything and it just gets goddamn tiring. Really they aren’t very clever or original are they those ad people.
The discussion here has been great and that’s the operative word isn’t it-discussion not war and proves that this site really is the place to be.
and blame it on Levi-Strauss.
Men can’t help it. We are jean-etically programed by the evolution of mass-market advertising to purchased indigo dyed clothing.
We aren’t stupid. It’s our jeans.
How pathetic is it that I had to read your comment a second time because the first time through I thought you were blaming Leo Strauss, and it didn’t make any sense?
Are you wearing jeans?
🙂
Holy sh*t! How did you know?!? 😉
Maybe you guys should try wearing skirts. 😉
The one and only time I wore a kilt (don’t ask) I experienced an hitherto unwonted breeze in unfamiliar places.
And I shan’t elaborate.
wish to obtain an ample bosom should drink absinthe.
will it… ?
the message is summed up here:
ELAINE: Twenty-five percent.
JERRY: Twenty-five percent, you say? No way! It’s like 4 to 6 percent. It’s a twenty to one shot.
ELAINE: You’re way off.
JERRY: Way off? Have you been to the motor vehicle bureau? It’s like a leper colony down there.
ELAINE: So what you are saying is that 90 to 95 percent of the population is undateable?
JERRY: UNDATEABLE!
ELAINE: Then how are all these people getting together?
JERRY: Alcohol.
With that my brain officially turned to Friday silliness.
I though it was a new Monsanto ad announcing their new patent on the genes for absinthe-producing breasts.
I wanted to consult my books to doublecheck, but now I have. This is one of the major reasons it faced legal restrictions. Thujone is a chemical component of wormwood, which is the herb that gives Absinthe its color and bitter taste. Thujone, is a neuro-toxin. In low quanitities, it is relatively harmless, but in large concentrations it can cause convulsions and neurological damage. With careful distillation, Absinthe can be safe — or at least as safe as other euphorics and intoxicants — but if not properly distilled and used in safe proportion, it can be quite dangerous. I wouldn’t go near it anymore than I would work with essential oil of wormwood, sage, pennyroyal or thuja. They’re potentially lethal.
Cleavage and absinthe on liberals web sites are nothin’… try THIS out for size!
And no, that’s not a link to some crude porn site. It is a perfectly safe link to a recent CNN story.
to my diary.
Just wanted to bring up some points and discuss in a rational manner, and it worked! No pie wars.
Well, I’m just about ready to head home and start my weekend (now where do they sell that absinthe stuff?….suddenly crave…if drink, large-breasted, beautiful women will flock towards me…arrrrgggggggg, slobber….drooooool……)
I had a downloading problem with the site this morning and ended up with Ms. Booby flashing at me for way too long and got my ‘tude up.
Until the people in ads look like me and mine (family, beloveds, neighbors, class), I ain’t buyin’ (yes it CAN be done). Anyone dumb enough to think that women like that (or men like that Tom Cruise number on kos) actually exist should read up on the art of airbrushing and photoshopping. Those of you who still watch commercial tv, listen to commercial radio and read MSM mags and rags might consider abstaining for a week or so and see how you feel about yourself. You may think the propaganda isn’t getting through your intellectual firewall but it is-just look at some of the comments on this thread.
I have selective vision. . .who knew? I’ve heard of selective hearing, but I wasn’t aware of selective vision, although my error fraught abilities at proof reading should have clued me in. The only ads I seem to see on BMT is Powell Books. Everything that offends my sensibilities seems to be beyond even my peripheral vision.
When I was in high school. . .back right after the earth cooled and dinosaurs still roamed. . .there was a novel, a very good novel, that had on its cover a large breasted, seductive looking woman in the Dolly Parton pattern. The title of the book was printed very near those over sized orbs on the cover of the 1950’s paper back version. The title? “So Big”. . .Edna Ferber’s 1924 Pulitzer Prize winning tale of farm and urban life in the late 1800’s – early 1900’s Chicago.
If it hadn’t been an assignment for English Lit class, I probably would not have voluntarily picked up the book to read. But maybe a lot of guys read it that wouldn’t normally have been drawn to the book. . .advertising common practices continue to baffle me and often turn me totally off to a product I might otherwise try or wish to find out more about.
Just my 2 cents. . .and worth every penny
I like the fact that it’s advertised here, though I could do without the cleavage.
I don’t have much interest in alcohol, but cleavage is nice. If we’re so PC that our peripheral vision must be filled exclusively with images of Bush, DeLay, and Iraq war grief, I may never get another erection.
Maybe we should be veering in the opposite direction – Booman should satisfy a sufficient variety of our curiosities and passions that we rarely leave the site.
For decades, Playboy had some of the most incisive progressive political and free speech writing in print, without wasting much effort being PC. Smart men would secretly spend more time on the articles than the photos, and lots of smart women secretly weren’t afraid to appreciate the whole package.
This pie phobia is sad and potentially deadly. Are we really afraid someone will find too much pleasure in an image of a fully clothed, pretty girl?
The “Pie-Fight” started when another blog carried an advertisment that could be objectively described as ‘Soft-Core’ porn. One of the scenes involved two women and pies.
A woman wrote a diary expressing her issues regarding Soft-Core porn on a Progressive blog. I read the diary and it was well written, reasonable, and calm.
In a nutshell, several owners and front-page posters told her in the comments section of the diary she should sit down, shut up, and do what she was told. She recieved unjustified personal insults – which I won’t go into. Other women who came to the defense of the original diarist were given the same treatment.
And then all of the women who were active on the blog were informed they shouldn’t speak out on “Women’s Issues” – never fully defined – as those issues were (a) not important and (b) women should do what men told them to do and otherwise sit down, shut up, and not worry their pretty little heads.
The actual, real, problem was not the ad, although that was the trigger, but the attitude that would lead someone to tell them to sit down, shut up, and do what they were told.
Women on the other blog felt:
For the reason they were:
Note: Part of point 3 is the cultural and social history of men telling women what Female Sexuality is/should be. I underline this point as I suspect you are male and to let you know if you do that around here: the entire friggin’ world will land on you. A word to the wise, eh? [I’m your friend here 🙂 ]
This is not to say discussing gender, male/female, and etc issues is not permitted. But any discussion MUST be conducted with:
And always remember Rule #1.
I saw that pie ad and a tiny fraction of the conversation about it. From a distance it looked like a huge over-reaction, but now I finally understand what was happening. It wasn’t really the ad, it was some disrespectful idiots. Of course, I should take your summary of their views with a grain of salt too. Come on – front-pagers behaving like idiots?! 😉
On the other hand, 120+ worried comments on a tasteful photo of a girl here is a genuine over-reaction, whether or not the worrier has a penis. People are obviously still sore from a pie fight.
People of every gender (and as a male lesbian persona here, I qualify) need to get over it so our communities can show more attractive ads, don’t reflexively condone censorship, have a more successful business model, and we can all enjoy a visually pleasant place.
Am I listening? Is that sensitive?
(Ever seen PCU? Funny movie.)
And seriously, thanks.
4 for trying. But…
Have you read the entire discussion here today? I think it is over-simplifying to call this diary an over-reaction. Questions were raised and opinions thrown about in a mostly nonjudgmental way. I wouldn’t characterize the overall tone as “worried.” Thoughtful, yes. Hilarious, a bit. And the ad… tasteful, to some but not all.
You need to reread ATinNM’s word to the wise above. Consider that no one is telling you to get over anything, and give others the same consideration.
Sorry, didn’t mean that to come off so harsh. I am tired tonight and hit the post button too fast and am now rambling! Anyway please just let’s not judge one another’s opinions as long as we still are on the same side here basically.
Perhaps I missed lighthearted comments when I skimmed – the ones I saw seemed pretty negative and serious.
My reaction was much more like SusanHu’s, which came after. Aren’t they just boobs? Are they really not OK?
I was including myself (and everyone of every gender, attempting humor) when I suggested that if we’re attacking relatively innocuous ads and spending lots of time doing it, it might not be the best use of our time. But I’m new here, and I certainly didn’t intend to disrespect everyone upthread.
Some of us are a little gun-shy at the moment and a good thing too, given the context.
To go even more ‘meta’ this dicussion is an example of establishing boundaries and, in some ways, a re-affirmation of the BooTrib community as a ‘safe place’ to have these sorts of discussions.
Am I listening? Is that sensitive?
No. And no.
More attractive ads? A visually pleasant place? That’s your argument? Women are not adornments and decorations. We’re people.
Any ad that’s got a professional human instead of an ‘actual customer’ or an ugly political figure uses a model, which is exactly that – an adornment or decoration to make the ad attract and appeal to viewers. I hope BooMan sells lots more ads and they’re full of lovely people who were paid money to pose in them – men, women, and maybe children.
I’m a newbie, but if there’s requirement here that every advertisement must show a human being exposing their deep personal ideas and soul, that’ll be a very special business model, and we should get used to staring at Bush and DeLay and lots of ‘reality’ ads, if that’s the plan. But I never imagined models would be forbidden here.
a model, which is exactly that – an adornment or decoration to make the ad attract and appeal to viewers
That’s in the eye of the beholder. You see a decoration. I think even beautiful women are people.
in bringing you to this very high level of condescension. Condescending not just to me, but to models and beautiful women – who don’t benefit when you act as if, without your voice, their circumstances diminish them as people.
I take responsibility for the series of misunderstandings that got you here, since I generally fault such communication errors to the sender. If you want to understand the point I was really making, this post to BooMan is a lot clearer.
I don’t think anyone here has over reacted….over reacting to a mildly stupid ad would be for everyone here to be screaming at Boo to take down the ad and I haven’t seen a single person call for that to be done.
As I stated up thread my reaction was mild disgust but the fact I was commenting was because of the history of mildly disgusting to offensive ads objectifying women sometimes means that after seeing ads day after day one of the least offensive can cause me to make a comment. Which I believe is what many of the posters here have been commenting on-not this ad in all it’s cleavage induced glory.
I don’t mind cleavage, I don’t mind drinking, I don’t mind sex, I don’t mind breasts, there’s a lot of things I don’t mind but having sex/breasts/cleavage continuous used in ads gets boring real quick for me. Maybe ad people should get creative and try and make sexy ads that don’t objectify women..I’m assuming that can be done but then that might take some creativity on their part.
I guess I’m not a ‘smart’ woman.
C’mon, I didn’t say every smart woman.
ATinNM did try to warn me…
because when I look at that photo, I’m convinced I’m looking at an adult woman, not a “girl.”
What is potentially deadly is that we continue to exist in a culture where women are not viewed as whole people, but as abstracted and diminished objects, as lesser beings to be exploited. It’s not about political correctitude. It’s about respect for other fully formed human beings.
It’s all very convenient to dismiss the concerns and sensitivities of living breathing women, and imply that we lack intelligence because we can’t appreciate your need for erections while reading the news. I, for one, would never begrudge your desire to look at Playboy, or even real pornography. But, no, I don’t think Booman Tribune should become a political community/erotic forum. There are plenty of other sites for that. I could point you to some that “smart women” like myself enjoy a great deal. But, I should warn you that they contain material by and for adult women, in full possession of their sexuality, not just “pretty girls,” and that might not be to your liking.
Inhibited ‘girl-talk’?
Our male brains would melt. 😉
I believe the word you’re reaching for is uninhibited — interesting Freudian slip there — and, yeah, they probably would. I’m kidding. It depends on the male mind, in question. Actually, my favorite erotica site contains prose, poetry, photos, and other art, by both men and women. But, no, it is not for the weak of heart.
What she said.
Damn it, woman, where’s the link to this erotic site?
I mean, um, so we can be an informed public.
That’s what I like about you shadowthief. You’re always looking to increase your knowledge and be an informed citizen. I salute you.
Clean Sheets
Why was I not informed of the existence of this highly informative site earlier? My research into the human condition has suffered for its lack.
Busted – I effectively offered her alcohol without carding her. She looks young like a girl; and I’ve very been hanging with some very developed 12 year olds who are girls, not women. Are you saying she mustn’t appear in an ad without celebrating her mind, or what?
There’s a big gap between censoring any hint of sexuality, and requiring erections during the news.
If you actually appreciate the reference to Playboy – which began as a rebellion against the 50’s conformist, anti-sexual, McCarthyist culture – then I’m hoping you get the point: political dissent and relaxed, uncensored sexuality are dear friends, not opponents. You’d never guess it reading most of this thread.
You’re not sick of DeLay’s ugly mug? I wouldn’t mind also seeing beautiful women, velvety beefcake, some uncensored cartoons and jokes. But with the reaction to this ad, it’s natural to ask – when will we get permission?
Are you for real? Because you sound like one of those guys who enjoys dropping loaded language into a civilized conversation to wind up some feminists, for a little amusement. I don’t know what to be more skeeved by: the allusion to the breast development of 12 year old girls who you are “hanging with,” or the fact that you see nothing wrong with oggling a model you presumed to be in their age group. As I said, above, I don’t like DeLay’s rodent-like visage, but when I want to appreciate something with a more erotic charge, I know how to give the mouse a couple of clicks, to view it in a more appropriate forum. It’s the internet, not a locked room. However, if you really want to look at 12 year olds, I don’t know where to direct you, and if I did, I’d be passing that info on to the FBI, not you.
I’m sorry – I’m new, and actually I expected a bigger presumption of respect from you, and maybe you think I don’t deserve it yet. Sometimes humor doesn’t come across on line. I am a feminist.
Since my kid has a 12 year old friend, it’s plainly obvious ‘boobs == adult woman’ is simply false. That doesn’t mean I thought the young woman in the ad was 12. But since I had sloppily called her a girl I lightheartedly said “Busted”, which I thought was respectful. I did not actually offer a 12 year old Absinthe or lust after one. Is that clearer?
When I saw the ad, I was happy Booman was skimming money from the liquor lobby, and delighted I wasn’t looking at DeLay. (The other joke you didn’t like or didn’t get was that looking at DeLay and Bush and death and torture all day might cause permanent sexual dysfunction. I was not saying all blogs including this one should be porn. Read it again.)
I did not have a problem with the ad. It is less sexually exploitive than 95% of ads I will see today, not as ugly as a beer ad, and the money is going to a better place. I thought it was a competently made photo. Is that a problem?
If you want to know how I feel, and don’t like my sense of humor, read SusanHu’s post just below.
I think the people on this site deserve more respect that having a newbie come in and tell them they’re uptight. No one on this thread has requested that Booman remove the ad. Booman himself has stated that he wasn’t pleased with the new version and actually asked for opinions on another thread, because he has some concern for the sensitivities of his site’s membership. He got some opinions, today, and a very fruitful, respectful discussion.
As a woman, I find it very hurtful and insulting when I or other women open up about our feelings about our bodies, our sexuality, and our status, only to be condescended to and compared to “smart women” who can appreciate Playboy. Perhaps you think you’re being funny and lighthearted, but what I read are a bunch of stereotypes, cliches, and derision. Personally I don’t have a huge problem with ad either, nor did I with the pie ad. I find them tacky, not deeply offensive. Like yourself, I have seen far worse. But, I have deep respect and understanding for why such images cause distress. At their worst they are degrading. At their mildest, they are derivative and trivializing, reducing female sexuality to a prop. But, what I did and do find offensive, is men mocking women for expressing their emotional reaction to the depiction of women’s bodies. As if, hey, what the hell do women know about female sexuality?
The other joke you didn’t like or didn’t get was that looking at DeLay and Bush and death and torture all day might cause permanent sexual dysfunction. I was not saying all blogs including this one should be porn. Read it again.
No, what you said was that you thought the site would be prettier with more such ads. And, again, I say, women are not decorations. Your potency is your own responsibility, and if reading the news poses such a threat, perhaps reading it might not be the best pastime for you. Again, I would say, try a different site to meet that particular need.
read SusanHu’s post just below
I already did.
I’m certainly not mocking you, and I’m very sorry my initial posts didn’t reflect the insights of your earlier ones. At first I just peeked in during business hours and made a comment. Now I see your posts are among many very valid insights, as well as – in the same breath – some unintentional sexism on your part; and more recently, some wildly incorrect prejudices about me. I’m very sorry if I trod ineptly here, and I’ll do my best to clean up and keep it safe.
Also, I didn’t realize Booman had solicited these comments in another thread, and I would not have reacted to the sheer number of them the same way if I had known that up front. Once ATinNM suggested that to over-react, someone would have to actually demand that the ad be removed from the site, I was better calibrated.
I agree with the many folks here who said they were reacting more to sexualized ads in general than to this fairly innocuous one. I feel somewhat as I did last week when some Kossacks violently slammed Ted Kennedy after his visit – he just barely deserved a giant attack that would have much more rightly been unleashed on other Democrats. Venting. This is the only even vaguely sexual ad I’ve ever noticed at any blog site in months.
Actually, I was making many of the exact same points as ATinNM, SusanHu, McGirk, and quite a few others. But it became clear that since I am a stranger, and since my points about Playboy bothered you, I wouldn’t enjoy the same respect from you. Instead of agreeing or disagreeing with those points, you seemed to find the phrasing insulting – though in fact that phrasing acknowledged there are male Playboy fans who.aren’t smart, and there are smart women who are, and some who aren’t, appreciative of Playboy’s role early in the sexual revolution. I’m sure I could have phrased it better.
From that point on, no matter how consistently I used gender neutral terms – and even when I drooled for ads with “velvety beefcake” – all you could imagine was the objectification of women, rather than any actual aesthetic or other points I (in concert with everyone else here) was making. From there on I couldn’t refer to a beautiful young female person of indeterminate age as a “pretty girl”, or describe the actual function of a photographic model in an ad, without triggering hauteur and hearing how your own love and respect for these strangers is superior. What a weird, prejudiced projection.
Finally, your efforts to insult me are out of kilter – if what you took away from my initial DeLay joke is that I visit this site for its erotic content, you make yourself a humorless stereotype – that’s not my fault.
You might want to say whether you’re actually disagreeing with in the Playboy comment. If you’ve never read articles from the 1950’s, 60’s and 70’s, you may, ironically, be looking at the pictures and ignoring the content.
Mr. Levitt: Jokes are not funny if people don’t laugh. That’s the 100% dyed-in-the-wool test.
Perhaps we all need to consume great quantities of absinthe to fully appreciate your attempts at humor.
However, at $200 a bottle (for a drink that has some dodgy and possibly dangerous ingredients), I’d prefer a nice bottle of Moet and Chandon Dom Perignon and donate the balance of the $200 to charity.
thread, when I see in retrospect my Absinthe jokes and attitude were far more welcome at the Froggy Bottom. Perhaps I should have guessed this was more of a That’s Not Funny! thread.
I’ve been trying to listen to you Levity and find some common ground. But now I need to ask if you are reacting to the length of this thread or if you’ve actually read it.
I haven’t heard anything here about people having any problems with sexuality nor any attempt to censore. As a matter of fact, the objection to the ad in question has been pretty mild.
In my mind, the issues that are being discussed are the USE of women’s bodies in an objectified way to sell unrelated products and the context of the ways women’s sexuality is used.
And by the way – see my comment upthread about being tired of having DeLay and Bush staring at me while I read. It was mostly just for a laugh – but it is annoying.
Thanks – you’re right, I didn’t read much of it, and may have gotten the wrong impression. You and I made the same kind of DeLay/Bush image comment, but it looks like some didn’t like my version.
I’m a feminist and probably in agreement with you and many folks here. But I’m way past being so disturbed by the appearance of models’ bodies (of any gender) for advertising purposes that I comment at any length on it.
I was reacting mainly to the length, as I think SusanHu was below, since she took the words out of my mouth. I’m also a newbie here — maybe every new ad gets 150 comments and nobody’s overdoing anything.
I confess ignorance. I don’t have time to read such a long thread now – I gotta go.
for me is the booze itself. As a recovering drunk the add is tempting. However I don’t feel compelled to complain about it because I will be around booze for the rest of my life. So it’s my issue, my problem, my demon to deal with myself. Nevertheless I thought that I would add another perspective other than the issue of the model.
I just got a chance to look at this diary.
FOR THE LOVE OF PETE, RELAX A LITTLE, WILL YA?
They make milk! My baby lived off my breasts alone for almost a year.
It took that experience to wake me up to the fact that the exposure of breasts is BEAUTIFUL, not shameful! Is a sign of ripeness, of life, of living, of giving life, of feeding.
Yes, her cleavage is SEXY. So? Is sexy bad too? Jesus….
Exactly. Jeez, everyone was acting like they need a lecture from Lenny Bruce on When a breast is not obscene.
(Hints: Not bloody. A smile attached.)
i cant say that i have anything for OR against the Absinthe ad! It’s a product.. a booze type product.. kay.. and they are selling it with pictures of a woman’s fatty tissues exposed.
Yes.. you HAVE to agree .. look at the placement of boob to bottle in that ad.. it may as well say Absinthe = tits = SEX droool but just about every ad in America does that anyway 😛
My take.. it’s just an ad.. and it ISN’T pie fight level worth of indignation.
Ijust wish the good, drunk, people hawking this product would use bad puns instead…
like Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder
or something like that
Yeah, all those sanctimonious women’s studies group types need to lighten up. Maybe put on some makeup, wear a short skirt and stiletto heels and learn to laugh (but in a feminine, lilting way, not a hearty laugh reserved only for us men) at men’s jokes, even if they’re not funny.
I agree, Susan–women should learn to “lighten up” and be more pleasing to men.
And what pleases men? That’s right, seeing boobies!
Everyone is intitled to their opinion. However, I feal that the left wasted many years on insignificant little things like political correctness or sex in TV / advertising. With all the real problens we’re facing, this is a bit trivial. Besides, banning sexuality is currently a right wing bullshit issue, the PMRC is long gone, thankfully.
I don’t like it because I can’t afford it!