[From the diaries by susanhu. Turn to C-Span to see the live debate. Raw Story reports that the vote is today, and that the GOP has pulled the tax bill from debate. ”
Unlike the resolution Murtha proposed, which called for the removal of troops to begin immediately, the Republican resolution calls for all troops to be pulled out at once. Democrats say this dramatically changes the nature of Murtha’s original proposal.” Check Raw Story for updates.]
Update [2005-11-18 19:20:49 by its simple IF you ignore the complexity]: Changed Title to try and avoid confusion – full text of the resolutions in a comment below. What a day…
After Rep. Murtha’s courgeous stand yesterday, the Republican Leadership is going to hold an ‘up or down’ vote on Congressman Murtha’s Iraq resolution (H J Res 73) today.
PDA has learned that members of the ‘Out of Iraq’ Caucus are asked to vote ‘yes’ and stand with Congressman Murtha.
This sudden vote is an attempt by the Republicans to silence the call for an end to the war.
Take one minute and call your Rep. urging them to vote yes on Murtha’s bill for immediate withdrawal from Iraq (H.J.Res.73.)
CONGRESSIONAL SWITCHBOARD: 1-800-426-8073 or 1-202-224-3121 if the 800 number is busy.
Thank you for taking action!
Update [2005-11-18 17:7:14 by susanhu]: Murtha will be on Hardball, MSNBC, in a minute.
Originally posted on MyLeftWing
I’d heard some rumblings about this this morning – but don’t have any more more solid info that this email.
Personally I think such a vote could backfire on the GOP – especially if at LEAST a solid majority of Dems would vote to back Murtha.
This isn’t time for nuance – I’ve been a “pull em out now” guy for months – but I also recognize that doing so will take a plan – it doesn’t happen in an hour or even a day… Murtha knows that to. (Indeed, given his service, he knows a hell of a lot more about it than I do).
Dems need to back him up and make this vote be yet another anchor around GOP necks in 06
Cynic that I am – I don’t think they’ll let it get to a vote….and now that it’s almost 5:00 est on a Friday…no news cycle to cover it with the holiday travelling started.
You guys are not going to believe this but I caught Hannity going off on Wes Clark last night and he told Wes to call all his cronies in the congress and tell them they should do exactly this. I am stunned.
Alohaleezy, why, you’re nothing but a FRENCH person! That’s who you are … you and those cut-and-run Democrats! (So says Jack Kingston, R-Georgia.)
I actually just called the 800# got put right through to “Duke’s” office(Yeah, Cunningham) and the aide was polite but did ask me to spell my name and give my address. He said he would be sure to give the congresscritter my message. Yeah right! Gotta try though.
Nah, I am just a terrorist. Just ask my brother in law. That is what he told me last Thanksgiving when I said I was against the war. He is one of those if you are not with me your against me guys. UGH!
ps…FBI..I am a 53 year old grandmother…not a terroist…just repeating what someone called me. Please don’t knock on my door tonight. I promise…I am not a national threat.
to help get the word out. It’s critical our Dem representatives hear us loud and clear – now is the time to STAND WITH MURTHA – the nuance can be played out later. this is a GOP effort to silence him – let’s make it a turning point – let’s shift the playing field and make this vote yet another anchor around the GOP’s necks in 06.
Just got this from a friend as I was posting
They are such scumbags because they know all the dems won’t back Murtha up and that will end the debate.It would be so great to pull some kind of dirty trick but I am only dreaming.
Democrats should all vote in favro of Murtha’s resolution and just prior to voting each of them should stand up and state for the record that they consider this vote to be a “No Confidence” vote in the Iraq War leadership of Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, Steven Hadley, Condilezza Rice, and George Bush.
The Republicans want to force a vote so that they can frame the Democrats? Fine. Re-write the frame. This one is simple.
Vote No Confidence in the ability of this administration to find a solution to the Iraq problem they have created.
From Chad in Seattle:
I just received Kerry’s e-mail:
From: John Kerry [info@johnkerry.com]
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 4:23 PM
To:
Subject: Don’t stand for “Swift Boat” style attacks on Jack Murtha
Dear Friend,
This is our moment of truth. You and I have to make it absolutely clear that we won’t stand for Republican “Swift Boat” style attacks on Jack Murtha.
Yesterday, an extraordinary congressman, former Marine Drill Sergeant and decorated Vietnam veteran, spoke out on the war in Iraq. He didn’t come to that moment lightly. He spoke his mind and spoke his heart out of love for his country and support for our troops. No sooner had the words left his lips than the vicious assault on his character and patriotism began.
Today, in a statement on the Senate floor, in interviews with the national media, and in this message to you, I am seeking out every opportunity to defend a brave American hero that the Republican attack machine has set their sights on.
I urge you to do the same. Whether you agree or disagree with Jack Murtha is irrelevant. These despicable attacks on Jack Murtha’s patriotism and courage must be met with an enormous public outcry. Call your local talk radio show, write a letter to the editor, phone your members of Congress – join me in acting now to reject these “Swift Boat” style attacks on Jack Murtha.
It disgusts me that a bunch of guys who have never put on the uniform of their country have aimed their venom at a marine who served America heroically in Vietnam and has been serving heroically in Congress ever since. No matter what J.D. Hayworth says, there is no sterner stuff than the backbone and courage that defines Jack Murtha’s character and conscience.
Dennis Hastert — the Speaker of the House who never served — accused Jack Murtha of being a coward. Well let me tell you, Jack Murtha wasn’t a coward when he put himself in harm’s way for his country in Vietnam and earned two purple hearts — he was a patriot then, and he is a patriot today. Jack Murtha’s courage in combat earned him a Bronze Star, and his voice should be heard, not silenced by those who still today cut and run from the truth.
Instead of letting his cronies run their mouths, the President for once should stop his allies from doing to Jack Murtha what he set them loose to do to John McCain in South Carolina and Max Cleland in Georgia.
The President should finally find the courage to debate the real issue instead of destroying anyone who speaks truth to power as they see it. It’s time for Americans to stand up, fight back, and make it clear it’s unacceptable to do this to any leader of any party anywhere in our country.
I urge you to join today in a massive public outcry that rejects the attempt to demonize and destroy anyone who dares to disagree with George W. Bush’s aimless “stay for as long as it takes” policy on Iraq.
Please act now. Call and email your elected officials. Flood talk radio with calls rejecting these vicious smear tactics. Send a letter to the editor. Express your outrage about the tired old Rovian “Swift Boat” style attacks on Jack Murtha.
Sincerely,
John Kerry
Paid for by Friends of John Kerry, Inc.
We apologize if you received this message in error. Click here to unsubscribe from our mailing list.
Friends of John Kerry, Inc., 511 C St. NE, Washington DC, 20002, U.S.A.
Man, that rep from SC stood up for Murtha & said they shouldn’t trash talk him. Anybody else watching?
Kos has a post about the differences.
Unbelievable – but in a way I think it makes it more likely this will backfire on them – clearly political gamesmanship and Murtha’s call (and the whole issue of bringing the troops home) stays front and center for another news cycle
the vote itself is less important than how the news cycle plays out.
Make those calls – support MURTHA’S position NOT the GOP sleight of hand.
Dems on CNN are supposedly really pissed. let’s make this backfire – the more the MSM talks about bringing them home the more mindshare I think we will get. (regardless of where “we” are on the variations of now vs timeline vs job done…)
The GOP has failed…
Together, we can do better
I just called my Republican Rep. Urged him to vote for the bill. Then sent action alert to my entire group. Hope we are not too late. Thanks for this.
Jane Harman just urged Democrats to vote against the GOP resolution … which makes sense because it’s not Murtha’s proposal at all.
It’d be funny if all the GOP voted FOR it!
I’m anxious to see what Murtha says to Chris Matthews. I’m glad he is a tough hombre. He’ll have to be to put up with this crap from the White House and Congress.
I asked if he was down on the floor. No, in meetings. He needs to go down there and stand with 37-year veteran, Mr. Murtha. Treating him this was is an insult to all veterans. Told him the vote is coming up, and I was disgusted by what I saw on C-span.
There’s Duncan Hunter: “This is not a stunt.” He’s really making a fool of himself.
Will this get to a vote?
Oh god …
Chris Matthews is just lettting him talk, and it’s so powerful, I’m crying.
He’s wonderful.
And, thanks, Chris, for letting him speak without interruption.
I just sent Matthews a note thanking him for letting Murtha speak:
hardball@msnbc.com
John at Crooks & Liars is gone today! But i’m going to write Hardball again and see if they’ll put up that video.
(Hardball reairs at 4pm and later too … they’ll probably replay this.)
Hope he doesn’t edit it for the later show. I just can’t turn off the House. They’re going nuts.
If anyone knows where we can watch the video, please let us know.
CM had another good moment the other day. Biden was being interviewed for something and the subject of the troop deaths and the media block came up. Biden said he was contacted by a family in his area and they asked him to meet their deceased family member returning from Iraq. It would be Biden only and the casket…private. He was honored to do it he said but DoD denied him access. As he said, after 33 years of service they still tried to deny him.
I’m not up on the rules for the House so take with salt:
The GOP changed the language so the Democrats should change the language right back on the floor during the debate. Every time they do that a debate on the admendment can happen and Democrats can point out the language change.
corrections requested.
don’t know if this is live or repeat but our House of Rep is sounding like the UK’s parliament today.
Amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just turned on CSPAN and there was something about “Words Taken Down” (the sound was off for 2 or 3 minutes, oop, now it is again) about disciplining a member who uses “inappropriate words in a debate” WTF??
What the HELL is going on — someone tell me! I see lips moving but there’s no sound on CSPAN — damn, I feel like I live in a totalitarian state or something…..oh, wait…erm.
answer to your question is in my comment, she called them, the dems. Murtha cowards….for talking about cutting and running.
Color me completely floored (I guess that would not be a color as much as a posittion) but holy holy whoa!
I switched over to CNN to see if they were reporting any of this and there are Katrina evacuees in NYC yelling at FEMA officials — the House ain’t the only thing coming unglued here!
Have you heard anything new on the end of the aid for housing?
Wow I am watching this debate and the applause is great when the dems speak….lots of disorder in the house today…but I love this, the dems are speaking up.
I hope the gentlewoman from Ohio gets her comuppance over the words she just spoke, calling the dems. murtha, or who knows what, ””cowards…”’
Just ran upstairs for a break(I live where I work). Oh my God, I feel like I am watching the Brits. Some repub woman rep said anyone that wants to cut and run is a coward. Her words are taken down and she may be punished for being out of order. All the jeering and clapping. These republicans changed the wording om Murthas bill and now won’t let him debate it/ WTF? Is anyone watching this on Cspan?
Hi Aloha, I am watching too….I love the ribaldness of this debate, I am so sick of the reps. just saying whatever they feel like and the dems taking it lying down. More of this would be good on Senate as well. Takes me back to the old days of this country, when spirited debate took place…(yeah I was there, lol.)
Hi Diane…me too. These repub reps think they are above the rules. What a flippin stunt. What a disgrace to America. But God I love the fiesty way the dems are calling them out on this.
What’s happening now?
I turned away to watch Murtha on Hardball … and when i went back, it was silent … and now C-Span is taking calls.
I don’t know I am back in the office. Anyone still watching Cspan?
They are voting on amendment attached to resolution brought by Hunter.
Jeez, it must be time for another quick break. Upstairs I go!I have to see this for myself! bThanks Diane.
I am back in office. Can someone please keep us updated? Brinnainne, Diane, Cooter. This is incredible and I do not think it will get lost in the weekend cycle.
Sorry, not Cooter but Cotter…lol!
Call your Rep’s office….
Rep. Woolsey’s (D-CA) office wouldn’t say where she stood. I told them lots of us here in VERY progressive district were opposed and she had better stand with Murtha. To stand with Murtha and his statements not what the Republicans had on the floor.
Comments noted –
Poor intern was really frazzled and staffers were “scrambling” to get information.
That’s it – STAND WITH MURTHA
let the gop play all the games they want.
Our troops deserve support – not games.
THANKS, Sally!
I wasn’t sure what to say either to my Democratic representative…. so I did what you suggested. “Stand with Rep. Murtha.” And the young man who answered said he’d take that down.
Won’t say where she is on the vote…
Let her know that as a veteran I stood with Murtha and as Minority leader she should as well. Staff wasn’t too frazzled.
I love making telephone calls! Switchboard is taking a long time to answer….must be busy! ;^D
then it will be on record that all voted to end the crusade.
If they vote no, it will be on record that all voted to continue the crusade.
Who is playing who?
Listening to calls from Reps. on Cspan is making me sick so I hope I can continue to listen…
The issue of cut and run, is just driving me into the ground, this issue of if you don’t support the war you are a traitor as well, grrrrrr.
Amendment and resolution was passed, not discussion to reconsider. For those not watching, this is not Murtha’s resolution, it appears to be a one line resolution offered by hunter to withdraw immediately , period. One line as far as I can see, don’t know what the amendment was as it was not read in entirety.
I meant to say, now instead of not, in discussion to reconsider.
here is the text of Murtha’s resolution
and HERE is the text of what the GOP (Rep Hunter) tried to pass off as the “democrat resolution”. It’s laughable – and from what I can tell it’s backfiring 🙂
Note that among other things the GOP changed it from a vote of Congress Assembled (which would have involved a Senate vote and had, in my understanding, some teeth) to a “Sense of the House” – which is house only and has no force.
It’s a COMPLETELY different thing. It’s not Murtha’s resolution at all. From what I can tell from threads around the blogosphere – the ploy is backfiring 🙂
How come they’re talking about flooding now?
What happened to the Murtha vote?
I am confused, I think they may come back tonight to bring up the issue again..
That’s what C-Span said in their message thingie.
It was neat that they just reran Murtha’s press conference yesterday. I hadn’t seen it.
God, he visits the wounded soldiers every week.
The Murtha thing has been repeated over and over on cspan yesterday and today….will probably be repeated this weekend…Hey he is from Johnstown, Pa. a town I used to live in…
Is running 7-8 minutes of this debate tonight + Murtha.
Countdown, MSNBC, 5pm and 9pm PT
If one were coming in late to this debate, one might think they will really debate and vote on Murtha’s resolution. But the resolution under discussion tongight is the republican Hunter resolution,not Murtha’s statement at all. Voting for THIS resolution is not the same as “supporting Murtha’s position” as was just reported on C-Span.
This seems to still be confused/misreported elsewhere.
Perhaps someone might consider updating the front page to reflect/clarify what is really happening. This is an absolute sham.
The GOP has basically put to the floor the question:
“Have you stopped beating your wife?”
The answer to that question should never be yes or no.
How about, “when can I start”?
about two more Bush appointments to the SCOTUS, and we may well see a return to the rule of thumb.
ceasing to beat your wife.
It’s a safe question to ask a roomful of people who are committed to making sure their wife gets beaten, whatever the cost.
These politicians voted to invade and occupy Iraq, and now they are reaffirming their support for the policy.