This may descend from an OPEN THREAD into a rant … bear with me:
Congressional Democrat Leaders Keep Distance to Troop Pullout
Although Murtha joins a growing list of pro-war Democrats that have reversed their positions, Democratic Congressional leaders distanced themselves from Murtha’s stance. House minority leader Nancy Pelosi said: “Mr. Murtha speaks for himself,” while Senate Minority Harry Reid added: “I don’t support immediate withdrawal.” (Democracy Now! headlines)
Check out Murtha’s illustrious military career. He’s got more military (and Congressional) experience in his little finger than Reid and Pelosi have in their entire beings.
This is good ….
“I won’t stand for the swift-boating of Jack Murtha,” Sen. John Kerry, the Democratic presidential nominee in 2004, responded Friday. Also a Vietnam veteran, Kerry was dogged during the campaign by a group called the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth that challenged his war record.
“There is no sterner stuff than the backbone and courage that defines Jack Murtha’s character and conscience,” Kerry said. (The Guardian)
I don’t like how this starts, and I’m afraid that Kerry is dancing again around the truth that’s staring us all in the face:
KERRY: I respectfully disagree with John Murtha. And I laid out a plan which is, I think, a good plan, a solid plan — that builds consistently on everything I said throughout the campaign last year — of what you need to do to be successful. And I believe my plan supports the troops in the right way.
KERRY: [Gen. George Casey, the top U.S. commander in Iraq] has said very clearly that the large presence of our troops in Iraq is part of the problem. It attracts terrorists. … Melvin Laird, secretary of defense for Richard Nixon, has written the same thing, that it’s our presence of troops that’s part of the problem. … (CNN, from Wolf Blitzer’s interview of John Kerry yesterday)
It seems to me — who’s never been in the military or in intelligence — that this gradual withdrawal stuff is just “rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.” That’s why I think that Larry Johnson’s plan makes the most sense. Larry’s plan takes care of the “blowback” and uses intelligence to influence what independent government is formed by an independent Iraqi nation.
I sure as hell don’t want us to pull out and leave the Jihadists and Muslim extremists to take over. Larry’s design has a chance of preventing that from happening.
OPEN THREAD, ANYBODY?
WTF!!! Finally a Democrat with a pair of balls speaks up and others will not support him?!!! Whether or not immediate withdrawal is the right thing, couldn’t Murtha get support for just a brief moment? This is making me ill.
I’m furious.
And I’m also pissed that a recommended diary at Daily Kos is based on the Guardian story that quotes Kerry being oposed to the swift-boating of Murtha….. which, given my cynicism about Kerry, is just more BS from him.
Kerry wants to be the “Dean” of 2008
oh, that’s too funny.
This isn’t the first time…
they let Durbin swing by his balls… and let’s not get into what the fuck our cowards did to Howard Dean… at least they are being silent with Murtha… with Dean they attack him for the GOP…
God, Parker. You are so right. It was terrible what they let happen to Durbin.
And Dean. Oh god. I worked 40-50 hours a week on his campaign as the local Meetup leader and as the 24th Legislative District Coordinator (over a huge geographic region).
We were riding a high like we couldn’t imagine until Kerry and Gephardt viciously undercut Dean. It was incredibly depressing and demoralizing.
I ended up voting for Kerry, but without much, if any, enthusiasm…. but we did try. We even held a showing of that movie about his Vietnam days, and publicized it widely, made all the arrangements, etc. — a lot of Vietnam veterans came and spoke too.
Meant to add that we showed the movie to counter the SwiftBoat character assassins. (However, I know plenty of vets who think poorly of what Kerry did, and can’t hold it against them…. it was an insane time emotionally.)
Well I don’t want to do a rant right now(too early in the morning for me)but let me just say this to all the mealy mouthed democrats..either shut the fuck up or get some balls and quite pussyfooting around. You’re either with us or against us. Quite being so gd afraid of being called unpatriotic-you’re going to called that anyway. You’re either wholeheartedly for what Murtha said or you ain’t. Do what’s right not what you think ‘sounds’ right.
Get off the gd fences and take a stand, draw a line in the sand whatever, just do it ok. Or we just might have a 3rd party sweep the 2006 elections…
I see we’re both sick of mealy-mouthed people! I didn’t read the comments prior to posting, so when I read this, it made me smile, however briefly.
I’m just so disgusted … so truly disgusted. We won’t stand for anything. If they can’t even stand behind a conservative rationale for getting out …
I’m just through.
Let’s spread this far and wide!
From Chad in Seattle:
I sent a fax in support of his statements this morning to Hon. Murtha w/ a cc: fax to my representative Hoyer to, you know, whip up some support.
Additionally, I took the time to describe some of the projects I’ve been involved with over the past few years in support of troop members in order to advocate for stronger programs for veterans of past as well as current and future engagements.
While I couldn’t be more diametrically opposed to Hon. Murtha with respect to his stance on reproductive health & freedom, he has undisputed authority on military matters. I trust his judgment.
He reminds me of General Smedly Butler — another patriotic American who put his troops before political gain.
I did mention that if he could also reconsider his position on reproductive health & freedom, I’d have to bring him flowers.
I agree with you 100% on this.
His position on choice notwithstanding, Rep. Murtha seems to be on the right page on a lot of the Health Care issues. I would need to read his statements on choice to be able to make a judgment on where he stands, since that’s not a subject that he lists on his website, for good reason probably.
I don’t believe in closing the door. The war is a different issue than choice. Let’s work with him on the war and talk to him about choice during two different conversations.
Murtha has 100% rating from Democrats for Life (DFL): Specifics of that rating here. No ambiguity there.
He did say the right thing about the war.
Let’s work with him on the war and talk to him about choice during two different conversations.
Why? I can walk and chew gum at the same time. I suspect Rep. Murtha can as well.
well, of course, you’re absolutely right. The virtual re-enslavement of over half of the American electorate pales in importance before winning a few more seats.
A few cowards for you to honor:
REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R-CA):
REP. GEOFF DAVIS (R-KY):
REP. J.D. HAYWORTH (R-AZ):
REP. TOM TANCREDO, (R-CO):
REP. BOB BEAUPREZ (R-CO):
REP. LOUIE GOHMERT, (R-TX)
and my personal favorite,
REP. JEAN SCHMIDT, (R-OH):
I note that you’re only citing Republicans. Why are Democrats always sitting on their hands waiting to hear what the alpha-males have to say?
Circle of Influence
Rolling Stone has a very interesting article up regardingpre/pro-Iraq war propaganda and a private firm I’ve never heard of…for reasons that will be obvious.
Ties all the way back to Bush 41 and the Noriega Fiasco.
Highly recommended reading…there has to be a tie-in to WHIG/DSM/Plame hiding in this woodpile.
Peace
RS has been doing some amazing investigative work the last couple of years. Thanks for the link, I always forget to check their site until someone points me to it again. 😉
Murtha just interviewed on MSNBC by Norah O’Donnell. Amazing!
She tried to push the Republican (and Dem hawk) talking points on him and he was immune. Kept taking her back forcefully, politely, and coherently to the points he was making. Outstanding! She looked totally overwhelmed. Finally, a strong voice for the party. This man has integrity.
I just happened to see that also. Yes he is very impressive in a rather quietly forceful way and you can tell he’s passionate about the troops he’s visits and wanting to have them taken care of. Interesting also that he apparently impressed the two anchors as they said it was obvious he was speaking about this matter of troops and withdrawal and he wasn’t being political about it. So maybe if the anchors start realizing this for themselves anyone they have on that is going to attack him won’t sit well with them.
I was wondering just how many Congresspeople are consistently visiting the troops in D.C. or in their home areas? Not just making quick stops for photo ops or for political grandstanding. Be nice if some statistics would show that democrats have been quietly visiting troops while the repugs just talk about the troops.
Because I haven’t had enough coffee to work up a full head of steam…I think it’s possible for reasonable people to disagree about the best way out of Iraq. I was against the war from the beginning – as were most of the folks on this site, I’d guess – but once we were in it, I definitely bought into that, “you broke it, you bought it” mentality for a while. It seemed to me the worst sort of irresponsibility, having illegally invaded a country, executed an occupation so incompetently that the country predictably descended into chaos, etc., etc., etc., to just up and withdraw and leave a bloody awful mess behind.
But I’ve come around to Murtha’s view that the presence of US troops is, and has been since Abu Ghraib, causing more chaos and violence than it prevents. I think we need to get out, the sooner the better. The exact timing of it, how it’s done, I’m still open to how that would best work.
Still, I can see how others would disagree that a “sooner than later” and total withdrawal is the best way out. I think that can be an honest difference of opinion.
And yes, I’m sure there are political calculations at work as well.
I do give Kerry credit for making the point that we need to start dismantling these very permanent bases that CheneyCo…er, Halliburton…has been constructing as an indication that the US doesn’t plan on staying in Iraq indefinitely. And that “staying the course” as the Administration demands is not an acceptable option.
..I think it’s possible for reasonable people to disagree about the best way out of Iraq
Absolutely, and I will try not to let my chronic crabbiness with Kerry get the better of me.
But I do think that Murtha has gotten a great ball rolling, and that it’s incumbent on his fellow Democrats to back him up … they can iron out how it’s done, etc. … but stand WITH the man, for pete’s sake!
(And, to that end, Kerry has been the best about that that I’ve seen on TV clips.)
Kerry’s email about supporting Murtha was really good too…I think someone has posted it elsewhere on Booman.
Then Dean sent one about an hour after that.
I think there might be more Democratic unity on this than we’d first assumed. Especially after that House session. Amazing.
What the fuck?
Seriously, what the FUCK?!?!?!
Goddamn this–is there ANYTHING we will stand up for? I mean, really–he is a damned CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRAT and they just leave him out there to hang? Seriously?
He has given them all the fucking cover in the world and we don’t have his back?
You know, we often talk about how the party undercuts liberals and progressives, but damn–they seem willing to undercut anyone with conviction, anyone who isn’t mealy-mouthed, anyone who doesn’t check-in with whatever the cool crowd says do.
And even the cool crowd knows this is all an unmitigated clusterfuck.
I am stunned out of my mind.
There is a fundamental optimism in the heart of liberalism that sometimes enables good things to happen, and at other times becomes a motivation for shameful political cowardice. Liberals live in a world where everything is fixable, where there is no final tragedy. Apologies make everything OK, dead people flit happily about in Heaven, and surely we can figure out how to run the tape backward so the omelette becomes an egg again, dead societies are restored, crimes against humanity never happened.
As a result, some among us are congenitally incapable of recognizing pure evil, especially when the source of that evil is the US of A. You’d think Kerry’s Vietnam experience would have taught him something about the finality of tragedy, but apparently nothing can.
The simple fact is, the US is the criminal here, not the “insurgents”, not Saddam, not anyone but us. A “phased withdrawal” will simply make us lame ducks over an agonizingly long time, and what is going to grow out of our original crime will grow according to its nature, now or later. It is time for this country to face up to the evil it has cynically loosed upon the world and to the likely consequences that will rattle deadly through bloody decades to come.
It is not Iraq that needs rebuilding, it is us. If we cannot bring the Regime to justice and punishment, we need to at least openly acknowledge our moral failure to the world. We need to get out as soon as the safety of the troop-victims allows. We need to humbly offer massive money –the only thing we have left of value to the world– to international agencies and NGOs to try and ameliorate the carnage and chaos that is to come.
We went into a functional country living under a wicked dictatorship. In our great wisdom we transformed it into a desperate, broken society that no longer works for anyone but the parasites that always gather to feed on corpses. We murdered nation that worked by its own lights. We have no honorable options before us, so we need to take the one that does the least harm: get the hell out and pay reparations at the level that causes up profound pain.
But the Kerry-style liberals will apparently never allow themselves to see hard reality, and so will float on in a dirty sea of Hallmark-card “patriotism” and denial that we have created an irreversible tragedy for petty domestic political advantage. The destructive liberal fantasies are exceeded only by the demonic fantasies of the other side. We need to get working to rid ourselves of both.