The Republicans are at each other’s throats on immigration. Business groups are reacting with outrage to the latest GOP proposal to require them to document that each of their immigrants are here in this country legally and require them to play Big Brother and do the job of the Federal Government.

As Democrats, we believe in individual responsibility. That means that if we pass a law, we provide the resources to enforce the law ourselves, not make other people into the eyes and ears of the government. Furthermore, we support increased immigration, as it would mean more jobs and more revenue for the government. We’re the ones who put the money in, and they’re the ones who would take the money out by shutting the country’s door to most immigrants.
The Bush administration is faced with a fundamental choice – either they spend hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars, hire millions of border control agents, turn this country into a tattle-tale society where people tell on each other at the drop of a hat, and spend billions more building the new version of the Berlin Wall along the border with Mexico. Or, they can accept immigration as a fact of life, increase the immigration quotas to meet demand for their services, invest in foreign aid to reduce the need for immigration in the first place, enforce laws against corporations who pay immigrants sub-minimum wages, and double the minimum wage so that more Americans would be more willing to perform some of the grunt work that normally only immigrants are willing to do.

The Post article points out another factor driving the latest GOP piefight: many GOP Congressmen are spooked because they are afraid of being tainted by association with Tom DeLay and the massive cronyism that he engaged in as well as Duke Cunningham’s resignation:

Still, acting House majority leader Roy Blunt (R-Mo.) appears to welcome the chance to disagree with his normal confederates. “Congressman Blunt sees no problem with being in a different place from the chamber on this legislation,” said Burson Taylor, a spokeswoman for Blunt.

The immigration debate comes as lawmakers are facing rising public criticism for their cozy relationships with lobbyists. Recent scandals have led to one lawmaker’s resignation for taking bribes and to the investigation of several others. The atmosphere has given a leg up in the immigration fight to the faction of House Republicans that has long been wary of its party’s ties to business lobbyists. The vote is scheduled for tomorrow.

In other words, the GOP Congress is engaging in finger-pointing by blaming the business community for its recent woes in the polls. Therefore, they feel they have no use for them and are seeking the passage of HR 4437 as a slap in the face. Of course, if the heat ever dies down, they will go right back to pandering to the business community by balancing the budget on the backs of the poor.

Business groups are freaking out over potential computer errors which could subject them to stiff fines that they don’t even deserve:

The business groups contend that the verification system, which has only been tried in experimental form, is too mistake-prone to give employers accurate results. They worry that, as a result, companies might be subjected to steep and misapplied penalties because of faulty computer readouts, and that individuals might have their working status jeopardized and their private backgrounds scrutinized needlessly.

On the other hand, Tom Tancredo is as hysterical as always, pandering to the FReaking out crowd:

“There’s a huge chasm between us and big business,” said Will Adams, a spokesman for Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-Colo.), a leader of the 90 or so House members who want a get-tough approach to illegal immigration. “They’re addicted to cheap labor, which illegal aliens provide. It’s in their interests to keep the border porous and to keep the labor flowing.”

In a recent interview on Morning edition, Tancredo boasted about finally being able to get access to the higher rungs of power and his ability to be heard. It is obvious that Roy Blunt is pandering to the FReak-out crowd with this bill. Normally, the Chamber of Commerce and other such groups are informed well in advance of any legislation affecting them. But this bill has been rammed through without consulting them.

But lobbyists acknowledge that the Republican bill, which emerged from committee last week, has been moving so quickly that they might not have enough time to stop it. “This whole thing has been compressed,” said Randy Johnson, the chamber’s vice president for labor and immigration. “We’re doing the best we can in a bad situation.”

The situation is the reverse of typical practice. The chamber and like-minded trade associations have for years been carefully clued in early about a wide range of activities in Congress and the Bush administration.

Normally, big business donors are rewarded by Congressmen who allow them to help write legislation helping them. This approach has been responsible for a number of legislative victories. But now, the GOP Congress has no more use for them. This is like the story of the horse who agrees to let the human ride him so that they can kill the stag that is drinking out of their common well. But the human takes the horse home, which he did not tell the horse about before. In this case, the GOP Congress is the humans while the Chamber of Commerce is the horse.

The business community is extremely angry about this bill, deploying massive armies of callers in an effort to scuttle the anti-immigration bill. Even Grover Norquist has complained about this bill:

In a letter to congressmen last week, Norquist criticized the immigration measure because it “probably creates unworkable hardships on the private sector, as well as raising significant privacy concerns for all Americans.” In a separate letter, R. Bruce Josten, executive vice president of the chamber, expressed “disappointment” in the bill.

Norquist is already fed up with Senator John McCain, making a number of hysterical speeches against him in Texas a few months ago. If Tancredo runs for President in 2008, I suggest Norquist will pull out all the stops to get him beat.

In the meantime, GOP congressmen are firing back, accusing business groups of being out of touch with the people of this country:

Rep. Ken Calvert (R-Calif.), a former restaurateur and Chamber of Commerce member, believes the business groups are out of sync with public opinion. “There’s a little disconnect here between some of the [business] leaders in the Washington, D.C., area versus the folks out here in the country who recognize we have a problem,” he said.

“It’s just one issue trumping another issue,” agreed Rep. Michael N. Castle (R-Del.) “The whole issue of reining in illegal immigration is more significant than accommodating business concerns.” He added that he did not think the guilty plea of former representative Randy “Duke” Cunningham (R-Calif.) or other lobbying-related scandals recently have anything to do with the spat.

We all support the goal of reining in illegal immigration. But the way to do it is not to pander to the Free Republic crowd and the Tom Tancredos of the world. The way to do this is to eliminate the need for immigration in the first place by developing the economies of the third world and renegotiating NAFTA, CAFTA, and the China Agreement, which triggered the massive influx of immigrants into this country in the first place.

The problem is that the right-wingers are trying to have their cake and eat it too. On the one hand, they pass stuff like NAFTA, which encourages immigration because it creates pollution, drives down wages through the construction of sweatshops, drives small businesses out of business because they can’t compete with the large factories, and creates pollution through the establishment of toxic waste dumps that would be illegal in this country. On the other hand, the right-wingers would then try to shut down all immigration. But laws against immigration will not stop immigration. Only reducing the need for it will. On the other hand, we recognize the value of legal immigration and would establish fair penalties for undocumented immigrants while increasing the quotas for legal immigrants.

In addition, right-wingers like Tom Tancredo are appealing to the worst elements of our society. We, on the other hand, appeal to the best in our people. As an example of the kinds of people that Roy Blunt and Tom Tancredo are pandering to, here are the charming fellows at the Free Republic, where hysterical behavior is the norm there:

On the denial of asylum to a gay Zimbabwe immigrant who was persecuted for being gay:

____

To: DBeers

Isn’t this Canada’s role?

_____

To: DBeers

and noted that he had admitted getting the other student drunk in the second case.

It’s the details that get you.

_____

To: DBeers

Obviously, one hopes he isn’t attacked or murdered. But giving him or others like him political asylum on this basis isn’t a good idea. Let Canada have him.

_____

To: DBeers

awwwwww I don’t think this federal judge will be getting a ACLU christmas card this year 🙂

_____

To: Clintonfatigued

Granting asylum to illegal immigrants must be done for only a very few, valid reasons. The court was right in denying this person asylum. If they want in, go through the proper and legal visa and immigrant procedures.

On the National Policy Institute’s calls for deportation of all illegal immigrants:

Caught this on Immigration News Daily Best news source for immigration news on the entire web.

_____

To: AZRepublican

Ditto’s to the National Policy Institute.

_____

To: AZRepublican; nicmarlo; Borax Queen; Marine Inspector; janetgreen; Itzlzha; Travis McGee; Spiff

Well, now you’ve done it.

The quislings will be furious.

_____

To: AZRepublican

Ditto.

_____

To: AZRepublican

Just curious – What is the stance of the Unions on this? Big Dem supporters – but to their mode of thinking, immigrants would seem to keep wages low. I’m not informed on the economics of it – but could it put them in a political bind?

_____

To: Czar

The majority of illegal aliens will deport themselves if we cut off the freebies and the jobs.

We need a President who will enforce existing immigration laws, not a lackey to Mexico and the OBL.

_____

To: sirjohn

I used to think so too, but Unions are looking down the road about this. Yes, it hurt their dues paying workers to have illegals around, but they stopped giving a crap about worker wages long ago. Now it’s all about union DUES.

The Unions will organize the illegals, dreaming of the days of Julio Chavez. They have visions of MILLIONS of new dues-payers added to their coffers.

_____

To: sirjohn

Just a thought, but is their real concern the “workers”, or just how many dues paying members they have, and therefore influence they can peddle?

_____

To: sirjohn

What is the stance of the Unions on this? Big Dem supporters – but to their mode of thinking, immigrants would seem to keep wages low.

It depends on if you are talking to the Union leadership or the Union rank and file. The Union Leadership sees the illegals as a source of new dues paying members to fund their corruption and fatten the wallets. The rank and file sees the illegals as job competition. The Union Leadership has been shafting the rank and file for a long time and they must kind of enjoy it because they never do anything about it.

_____

To: wvobiwan

GMTA

_____

To: wvobiwan

Ooops, make that Cesar Chavez…

_____

To: sirjohn

Somehow I’m disinclined to think illegals have much influence on the labor union front, one way or another.

But there is a very valid point made, that legal immigrants, who often wait years, and jump through all sorts of hoops to get here, only to get here and find their hopes for a job dashed by illegals.

_____

To: Czar

CAIR isn’t going to be crazy about it either.

CAIR Action Alerts

Action Alerts

Tuesday, December 13, 2005

Action: Call Congress on Torture, Patriot Act, Immigration

CAIR ACTION ALERT #481

_____

To: Czar

Furious? Nah.

They’ll just use stock response number one and call it racism. That seems to cover just about anything that doesn’t support their no borders agenda.

_____

To: AZRepublican

“In reassessing the cost, the following analysis

compares and contrasts what an amnesty would cost taxpayers in

terms of social services, lost wages, health care subsidies, and

educational expenditures. The author concludes that comparative

estimates demonstrate “no matter how high the costs of

deporting illegal aliens may seem, the costs of not deporting them

are larger still.””

_____

To: visualops

I used to work in the HQ of the US Customs & Border Patrol. Everyone knew that the US could seal the borders in a heart beat if there were any political will to do so from the top.

There was none. And there is not much now.

The basic story on this stuff is that the leadership of both the republican and democratic parties would sell the US into Mexican slavery in a heart beat if they could just get away with it. The top republicans are looking for cheap labor and the top democrats are looking for cheap votes.

The rank and file of both parties just despise the whole mess.

So we’ll get some crappy bs that just kicks the can down the road and will make for increadible problems for the USA in a couple decades. We’ll get the political equivalent of the 3/5ths compromise.

Heaven help the USA.

_____

To: jackbenimble

Yeah, that’s sort of my point in a way. The union members are likely to be more “anti-immigrant” than the union leadership. At some point they’ll realize the leadership has a conflict of interest. I grew up in a blue-collar area, and those guys know a raw deal when they see one. Expressions like “sold down the river” come to mind (steel towns always had a river or two).

_____

To: visualops

“We believe that neither the pro- nor the anti-immigration groups are

asking the right questions. Neither side has assessed the costs of maintaining the

status quo, i.e., the annual costs of an immigration policy that refuses to either

stem the influx of illegal aliens or deport illegals already here.”

_____

To: Czar; nicmarlo

gulp

_____

To: sageb1

<< CAIR isn’t going to be crazy about it either. >>

Gee, you would think they’d want to leave here since they think we’re a bunch or torturers.

The real definition of torture is listening to CAIR rhetoric.

_____

To: AZRepublican

I agree that we need to deport illegal immigrants.

We also need to cut off all immigrants that are here on work visas from government entitlements.

Even if they are here legally, they need to support themselves and provide a benefit to our economy, or they should be deported.

Students here on student visas should also be able to fully support themselves while here, or should be deported.

Unless we are granting aslyum for some reason, our immigration system is supposed to benefit the United States, not import other country’s problems.

However, I do have some questions on how they plan on accomplishing mass deportations of illegal immigrants.

How do we streamline our deportation process yet still give due process to those who may qualify for aslyum or meet residency requirements?

The percentage that qualify for such things are likely small, but lawyers are really good at dragging things out.

How do we make deporting millions of illegal immigrants a reality when our court system can process a fraction of that?

I also have to question this number.

Moreover, illegals have a negative impact on the jobs and income of American-born workers. The NPI paper cites a study by a Harvard professor, George Borjas, who estimates that every 10 percent increase in the labor force due to immigration results in a 3.5 percent decrease in native-born wages. The loss to American workers will be staggering when, as the U.S. Census forcasts, the illegal percentage of the labor force reaches 34 percent in 2025.

So, how much are they proposing that illegal immigrants are hurting wages now? Our unemployment rate is at 5% even with the current number of illegal workers. Historicly unemployment rates don’t go and stay much lower.

We don’t have widespread unemployment problems in the US right now even with the large number of illegal workers. If you shrink the workforce you’ll force companies out of business.

You will raise wages in some job types due to increased competition for workers, which will result in inflation. Some workers are better off, but as a whole our economy shrinks and inflation rises.

I’m all for deporting illegal aliens, however we do have a need for a limited number of legal immigrant workers.

_____

To: Czar

Harvard professor, George Borjas, who estimates that every 10 percent increase in the labor force due to immigration results in a 3.5 percent decrease in native-born wages. The loss to American workers will be staggering when, as the U.S. Census forcasts, the illegal percentage of the labor force reaches 34 percent in 2025.

Darn those professors of Economics…..it’s such a shame that they actual understand wage suppression because of illegals.

_____

To: AZRepublican

Sing a song…music to my ears…

Deport them all now…

_____

To: Czar

Bookmarked and BUMP!

_____

To: nicmarlo

Goodbye middle class!

_____

To: Borax Queen

sickening, isn’t it?

On the tossing of an illegal immigration lawsuit by a county commission against four companies accused of hiring undocumented aliens:

“The judge said the county’s claimed higher expenses for social services were simply the costs of being a government entity. ”

_____

Where does it say that we have to take care of ANOTHER country’s citizen’s social service needs? Am I missing somehthing here?

_____

To: NormsRevenge

Wait a minute, back up the truck! Why is it that private industry always has to pay for the government’s ineptness? As a farmer trying to make a living, is it my fault the government is unable or unwilling to secure the borders? When a prospective employee presents me with a SS card and fills out an I9 my responsibility ends until and unless I am informed that the SS# given me is invalid. I am trying to run a business, I am not a private detective. RICO my ass!

8 posted on 12/14/2005 4:18:23 PM PST by DirtyDawg

[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

_____

To: NormsRevenge

The judge said the county’s claimed higher expenses for social services were simply the costs of being a government entity.

I wonder if this judge would say the same about corrupt judges conducting illegal activities?

_____

To: NormsRevenge

A federal judge on Wednesday tossed out a southwest Idaho county’s lawsuit against local employers accused of hiring illegal immigrants

I could hear the sigh or relief from the employers that hire illegal immigrants, all the way from Reno.

_____

To: NormsRevenge

The judge said the county’s claimed higher expenses for social services were simply the costs of being a government entity.

Take the money out of the judge’s budget and tell him it’s just the cost of being a judge.

_____

To: NormsRevenge

Clearly the suit was asking the court to become activist and do what the legislative and executive branch had not done.

It will be interesting to see who is or is not for judicial activism.

_____

To: DirtyDawg

I understand what you are saying. It is a mess as you describe it.

Are you with one of the firm’s being sued or have a smaller scale operation ?

I take it you won’t be supporting Vasquez in the election to Congress.

_____

To: NormsRevenge

No, I am not with them at all. I am a much smaller farmer in California. What little I know of Vasquez is that he is running on the anti-immigration issue. Actually, I strongly support a well run guest worker program.

_____

To: DirtyDawg

No, I am not with them at all. I am a much smaller farmer in California. What little I know of Vasquez is that he is running on the anti-immigration issue. Actually, I strongly support a well run guest worker program.

May I ask what you farm?

The only guest workers I support are 1-2 million for agriculture and food processing. The rest of the illegal aliens should be sent packing via enforcement of employer sanctions. A new law should be in place where employers have to verify prospective employees on an SS# database. We also need a Israeli style fence on the Mexico border

_____

To: Mears

“”The judge said the county’s claimed higher expenses for social services were simply the costs of being a government entity. ”

OK,

Using the same logic, every state in the union should be authorized to send the bill to the US Government, “attention G. W. Bush” and expect to collect their refund because it is USG policy that caused them to see the expense….the responsibility of being a ‘government entity’ should surely depend on which ‘government entity’ ran up the debt.

_____

To: NormsRevenge

You would think an experienced Judge would understand the meaning of the word ILLEGAL!!!!

_____

To: spintreebob

Nice resume

I believe the Rico statutes are being stretched far beyond there original purpose in this case so I would have to agree with you with regard to judicial activism.

_____

To: dennisw

I grow stone fruit (peaches, Plums & nectarines) and some table grapes. We are very labor intensive and as much as people would like to believe that we could just put those on welfare to work in the fields, that simply isn’t going to happen. With a guest worker program you at least continue to give ag access to the much needed labor with some amount of control over the onslaught of illegal immigration.

_____

To: DirtyDawg

Yes but what about city folk who run a small businesses, they cannot complain that if presented with counterfeit documents such as money that they are not responsible and should be able to cash them simply on the basis that it is the governments job to stop counterfeiters. If a business takes in counterfeit, then its their responsibility to check, and nobody else’s, so better make sure then things are legitimate, if it works for bank notes, why not labor notes too?

_____

To: DirtyDawg

Thanks much. I am so dead set against illegal immigration but I don’t want American produce farmers and other farmers and food processors put out of business by lack of labor. Mexico and other 3rd world pits will send us more of their awful produce if we make your labor expenses impossible to deal with. So I only support guest workers in agriculture and food processing.

I want our food supply to be as American, grown in America, as possible

All other illegal aliens should be given the boot or cut off from their income via employer sanctions. Then they will go home, self-deport themselves. Other businesses will have to readjust and get off their cheap illegal alien labor addiction.

On the introduction of HR 4437:

_____

To: kellynla

No job Americans wont do, provided the pay in adequate. AND stop paying them more to stay home and not work!

_____

To: HiJinx

I really liked the idea about putting the prisoners to work. It is high time that we reinstated chain gangs. Huge numbers of our prisoners are nonviolent drug offenders. It would do them a world of good to learn how to work hard and earn a living without selling drugs. Plus they would be paying restitution and a portion of their cost of incarceration.

Great idea!

_____

To: kellynla

One of the things that massive illegal immigration has killed is the career ladder, from unskilled jobs upward to better paying jobs. What you have now is essentially three worlds: agricultural, meatpacking, or construction jobs that go only to illegals; checkout workers at the Supermarket or McDonalds that go to teenagers; and fancy jobs that go only to those whose families could afford to buy them a super college education.

It used to be that anyone could start at the bottom and work their way up. Now there are a whole lot of missing rungs, and a gigantic welfare system to warehouse all the people who never got started on the way up.

_____

To: kellynla

Thanks for posting this, kelly. Dana Rohrabacher is one of the few good guys in California who is actually worried about the downward path our state has taken due to unlimited illegal immigration.

_____

To: Cicero

Now there are a whole lot of missing rungs, and a gigantic welfare system to warehouse all the people who never got started on the way up.

I don’t think state or federal government, business (large and small) or many others want the flow of Mexicans or OTM’s to stop. To the governments – it’s just more tax base via working age persons. To the businesses – it’s just more cheap labor that includes the side benefit of persons that are in a weak position to complain or file suits about pay and safety etc.

Like I said – the people in a position to make law changes or to enforce existing laws likely have a vested interest in the status quo. If you can’t beat them – then join them? Deep down – I feel that our national leaders are intentionally allowing the illegals to come here to pad a slowing birth rate to shore up our supply of working age persons because we are going to need them when the baby boomers are gereatric and into the future. Europe has done so with all sorts of Mideastern, North African etc. I – personally would take a Mexican any day rather than what Europe is getting.

_____

To: txroadhawg

Hope they stop the anchor babies automatic citizenship, the mother is here ILLEGALLY don’t reward her and her kid with precious citizenship. Once they gain citizenship thru this kid they are able to get medicaid and welfare.

_____

To: winston2

Yes, I’ve often said I’d rather have Latin Americans coming in than Muslims. We are very lucky in that regard.

But if you look at the history of the past two centuries in Latin America, you find something very disturbing: None of these countries are capable of governing themselves without constantly falling into left or right-wing dictatorships. I’m not at all sure whether we can change that pattern if, in the future, the majority of our country is Latin American.

I don’t know what it is. Most of them are nice people, individually. But they have rarely managed to live together under a just political system.

_____

To: jackbenimble

If we had a decent border fence, it would be much cheaper to dump them on the other side. Unskilled chain gang labor is not worth much compared to the cost of incarceration.

_____

To: kellynla; All

Let’s stop the abuse of the 14th Amendment.

“What does it mean for America with over 300,000 ‘anchor babies’ being fraudulently born in our country annually? Do American citizens like adding not only 300,000 welfare cases but the added 300,000 mothers that go with those babies? That’s 600,000 people sticking their straws into the public trough. Why is it that we become responsible for this financial nightmare when we’ve got over a million homeless Americans?

How about our school systems clawing for money? How about our millions of Americans on food stamps? What about our Social Security system financing other countries like Mexico?

Why does our Congress condone this growing ‘anchor baby’ nightmare? When does the insanity of this immigration nightmare end? When will you, as an American, raise your voice?”

sw

_____

To: stopem

I’ve never understood why the Constitution didn’t make it clear that citizenship would only be bestowed on children born of parents that had not broken the law.

It restricts the right of criminals to vote. Were the framers just not foresighted enough to envision a time when US Citizenship would be a prize criminals would seek ?

_____

To: Cicero

if, in the future, the majority of our country is Latin American.

If- as I firmly believe – the United States and Britain are modern day Israel – and – the prophesies to befall Israel in the latter days – being swamped with other peoples, national debt, Godlessness and ultimately “Jacob’s trouble” makes perfect sense.

Interesting read about how God punishes Israel and why- Jeremiah 30:7 and the whole chp. and also Isaiah chp.5

______

To: kellynla

I think that Gilchrest’s 25% showing is having a salutory effect on Republicans in Congress.

For Republicans in Gerrymandered districts, their only threat is a third party. Gilchrest showed how a third of the Republican voters could be lost to a Republican weak on illegals.

_

If we had a decent border fence, it would be much cheaper to dump them on the other side. Unskilled chain gang labor is not worth much compared to the cost of incarceration.

I could live with that. In fact, if it was up to me, I would just shoot most of the human refuse. But since that is unlikely to happen, I thought the idea of making them work was better than nothing.

As you can see, there is an extreme hostility and xenophobia on the right against any kind of immigrants. And Blunt and Tancredo are being opportunists by pandering to this sort of behavior and reinforcing it.

0 0 votes
Article Rating