The notion that you would somehow not want to use your capabilities to avert terrorism both inside the country and outside the country is a concept that Condi Rice, frankly does not understand. That (approximately) is what she just said to Tim Russert of Meet the Press.
This is me paraphrasing: “Tim, violating the constitution to protect us from terrorism is such an obvious call that I, frankly, think you are an idiot for asking me this question.”
We’ll get a transcript up of this shameful interview as soon as we can. In the meantime, just let it sink in that the administration has been caught red-handed violating the constitution on a routine basis and they are not apologizing, but trying to justify it with more fear-mongering.
This behavior has to be an impeachable offense. If they begged for mercy and promised to never do this type of extra legal domestic surveillance again, then maybe we could forgive them. But there is no way we can back down in the face of their determined attempt to brazenly jettison the fourth amendment.
Update [2005-12-18 14:39:25 by BooMan]: here is the transcript. It’s awful to read.
well at least they won’t be able to claim that al-Qaeda hates you for your freedoms anymore. That’s something to cheer about no?
that’s a good point. But unfortunately I think they will keep using that one.
right because the Bushies are free to violate the law at will… 😉
The taplist:
Patrick Fitzgerald
Valerie Plame
Joe Wilson
Ronnie Earle
Mr. & Mrs. Clinton
John Kerry
Kanye West
John Conyers
Carl Levin
Jane Harman
Patrick Leahey
Mark Dayton
Mid Atlantic
Souh East
Mid West
…..everybody but Texas.
I knew a person once who lived life according to a very simple philosophy: “When you are the most wrong, act like you’re the most right.” It worked for her: she was able to get by with nearly anything she chose to do, no matter how wrong, dishonest or illegal it was. If called to account, her rage was immediate, and retribution swift and deady. She bound people to her with charisma and by fear of her retribution. She was an accomplished con artist and a sociopath, just like the man in the Oval Office now.
There has never been a more dangerous president in the history of this nation. Only time will tell if this country and it’s Congress will act swiftly and surely enough to prevent him from destroying this country.
Condi was on top of her bullshit today!
I think this whole story was leaked by the administration themselves, Why? Because they are going to throw the Democrats into the same cess pool they themselves have created.
While you may cry out for impreachment consider this quote:
This is not a story about an out of control President abandoning the Constitution, this is a story about the entire government, including the Democratic leadership, abandoning the Constitution. It turns out that the Democrats have known about this for three years and said nothing. is it not a little hypocritical to cry wolf now?
In criminal court, the person who knows about the crime, witnesses the crime, covers up the crime, is also guilty. So what if they “express concern”. If a crime is committed you are both legally and morally required to report it. Pelosi and the Democrats are just as guilty.
Now, who is going to vote for impeachment? Bernie Sanders?
Just heard Biden say on Face the Nation that those in congress who knew of this were bound to secrecy. Not approving but perhaps this is relavent. Then again the democrats dismal record of being an opposition party is helping to grease Bush’s skids. I want just one member to take a stand regardless of the consequences. I’m still waiting…..
i don’t think the insiders understand that the progressives are no longer buying what they are selling. It may take some time, but when it comes time to purge washington dc the democratic leadership is going out too.
Biden is correct. The program was one of the most highly classified programs in Washington, and not only because it was illegal. Someone like Pelosi would have had to be willing to go to prison to even tell other congresspeople about it. To take that risk, she would have had to been damn sure that she would put Bush in jail instead.
But, the post-9/11 era is over and the country is ready to take its rights back.
While I’m no fan of Dem leaders in congress, I favor waiting to learn what it was exactly that the Bush regime actually told these leaders before I can evaluate the scope and nature of the blame to be attached to them.
But even more importantly, whether BushCo informed congress or not is irrelevant if in fact his administration’s actions violated the law.
As someone said, (I forget who), in our democracy with checks and balances it is not a small handful of selected congresspeople who have the authority to validate executive branch action. It is the law that has such authority and it’s congress’s duty to support the law. They are not empowered to give approval for illegal acts by the executive. They are empowered, indeed obligated to do their sworn duty and uphold the rule of law and the constitution and to “check” the executive when they violate the law.
In my 50+ years in this country, our government has never failed us more completely than it is doing now; not under Johnson, not even under Nixon and Reagan has our government in toto betrayed more ofthe very principles upon which our country is supposed to be founded upon.
Congress is bound to protect and defend the law, not the president or any other official. This is the line Dems need to take to stay out of the tar pit of discussing their own votes and statements. They don’t matter. What matters is Congress’s duty to support the law, period. Nothing else is worthy of discussion at the Congressional level.
I wrote Rep. Pelosi on this issue. I told her that I didn’t really care if she was involved in the “cover-up” of this information. That it was time to be accountable. If she was wrong, or helped break the law, then she ought to be held accountable, too. But I asked her for the sake of the country not to let her involvement, whatever it might be, get in the way of protecting our constitutional democracy. This is a serious moment. I don’t care who falls with Bush, but our very way of government is under attack, and the enemy is in the oval office, I’m afraid.
Like Susanhu says, this is the post-democracy era.
Alice, I’m unhappy that you’re quoting me. But only because it’s true, and it breaks my heart.
Perhaps we need to use this phrase often? To freak people out? It might get people movin’? Dunno.
for reporting a crime. How fucked up is that? I disagree that to take that risk she had to be sure to put Bush in jail. That sets the bar too high when you consider that Pelosi and every other member of congress takes the same oath to protect the Constitution. Not the country, not the President, but the Constitution.
Political suicide? Maybe. But look at the fix anyone who knew is in now. A bipartisan effort to expand the power of the presidency and subvert the Constitution. Some oversight, some co-equal branch. With friends like these…
Take a second and go hit up this poll.
I’m sure that by freeping the poll you can make it look like the vast majority of people are against Bush, but this will not influence the “silent minority” of people who are sticking by their criminal.
I was reading the comments on the Guardian web page about this story — almost 100% of the comments were from Americans. The two-thirds of people who thought Bush’s actions were terrible didn’t interest me as much as the one-third who thought Bush was doing the right thing.
Bush may be the first President in history who can rule with only the support of one-third the population. I believe this is happening because the other one-third are guilt of aiding and abetting the President — whether it is people like Nancy Pelosi or the large number of Americans who still feel guilty over supporting the war in Iraq.
—-
I repeat that it is a crime to cover-up criminal activity. Exposing illegal activity can not send you to prison (military law is a little different in this regard). There is plenty of case law that would have protected Pelosi if she would have come forward. But worse yet is the fact that she could have leaked this to the media three years ago but chose instead to protect Bush and not the nation.
This sentence, I believe this is happening because the other one-third are guilt of aiding and abetting the President should have read as follows: I believe this is happening because ANOTHER one-third are guilt of aiding and abetting the President.
It never ceases to amaze me that even on something as fundamentally in violation of the Constitution as this that there is still 25%, not scientific of course, support for Bush.
(Something I have posted before at MLW that I’ll repeat here)
A major problem with Bush and the Republicans in Congress:
If Bush were to pull down his pants, bend over and tell Congress “kiss my ass” during his next State of the Union Address, the Republicans would be fighting with Joe Lieberman to be first in line.
for some unknown reason I feel like this has the smell of Poindexter (sp?) on it. Remember him? I can tell you this whole things smells……
Could you elaborate a little for those of us who don’t remember Iran Contra (isn’t it?) as well.
Total Information Awareness System/Memory Hole
Thanks super for your effort to find this link. I was going on memory and some knowledge of such. You know, so much feces has goin on for so long here in America to keep the ppl from actually knwoing about things, it has only got to be wrong in the way they do things. It seems they love to keep things convoluted or upside-down just to keep things secret/confusing.
Thanks for this, Super. I get too easily distracted and don’t visit the memory hole often enough.
I am sure this leapord has not changed his spots sinc I/C affair, but we must go only a few years ago to when he was active within this Wh and I think within this NSA who was making things gambling on odds etc with this whole wmds and governmental affairs. He wanted to control all of our stats on disc’s and have them at his/their fingertips. He is the one who thinks that comp. chips under our skin is the going thing to keep us in line and know about where we are at all times and doing what! He is the same and one who chose not to take his oath to be in this mans navy the same way I took my oath….not once but twice to serve my country. He is a traitor in many ways let alone the feces he did back in ronnie’s days along side of ollie north. These fellows are still around and active…all you have to do is look as far as the secdef office and that should tell you the whole story.
Even a cursory look at the historical record of mankind shows that, wherever democracy has been overturned by fascism and tyranny from within, this idea that the citizenry has to make a choice between either keeping their freedoms or being protected from harm is always a key element.
John Yoo, the rightwing legal gangbanger who, as a legal eagle in government is largely responsible for much of the “legitimization of torture” writings and who is the staunchest advocate for the idea that the President has “untrammeled authority” in his role as chief executive, fails to understand or embrace the very simplest of democratic principles.
Yoo, Cheney, Rice, along with the ghosts of odious creatures like Nixon and Hitler and many others, is an advocate for tyranny, pure and simple. He operates on that You have to burn the village to save it wavelength the Nixon/Kissinger gang sought to instill in the American public psyche. His version is; “Do you want the government to follow the law that upholds your freedoms, or do you want them to deny you those freedoms in the name of security?”
Wherever and whenever this meme is promulgated, tyranny is on the march.
exactly, and fear is always the fuel.
Yes! Fear is always the primary weapon in the tyrant’s arsenal. Without fear, tyranny cannot take root.
There is a small and vocal minority who may wish different choices had been made, there may even be some erstwhile loyalists now experiencing a touch of buyers’ remorse, and it would be inhumane not to feel sympathy for those Americans who are surprised, maybe wishing they had paid a little closer attention to this and that before the big door closed.
It is true that when a door closes, a window opens, but sometimes getting out of a window requires a bit of squeezing, a scary jump, and even the breaking of glass.
When ignorance is weaponized to the degree it has been across American society, the biggest obstacle to people realizing they’ve been conned is the strength of their denial.
People are largely unwilling to admit they’ve been duped becaus to make such an admission is tantamout to admitting, (in their own minds), that they’re stupid and weak. Every buco squad investigatorwill tell you that the single greates obstacle they face in apprehending and prosecuting con-men is that victims are very often too embarrassed to come forward, too ashamed to admit they’ve been fooled so easily.
This is a huge problem in US society now, and given that the conditioning process that’sled us to this state has been going ahead at full speed for decades, there’s still going to be many big battles ahead for many many years before the public recovers enough to detect these liars and crooks before electing them.
The conditioning has been extremely successful, especially the last few years.
It was not too long ago that US would have made much more of an effort to deny some of the more colorful of its atrocities, and though I could be wrong, I think there might have been even some level of objection on the part of the US mainstream.
Although I admire your optimism about the future, and more than you may suspect, even envy it, and recognize tht it is good for youth to have this, I cannot share it, and I think that the point has been reached now where many of the optimists among Those Opposed may be forced to become suddenly old.
I appreciate your appreciation of my words.
I don’t really think of my self as an optimist on this. I actually believe we are past the point of no return in many significant areas of American society and that there are earthshaking changes coming in the near future that will affect how we live on a day to day basis.
I think it’s fair to say that even just the last 50 years of careless negligence, selfish arrogance, delusions of consumer entitlement and irresponsible management of natural resources; that all of this alone has brought us to this point in history now where in a very few years dramatic changes will be required in our society in order to maintain some semblance of civilization going forward.
Also, I think I’ve already achieved that “suddenly old” status you speak of.
So the first thing out of Condi’s mouth is something about the President and the 9-11 commission..if she is trying to pitch that Bush was following the 9-11 commission report, her first statement doesn’t hold water..the 9-11 commission report came out long after Bush started his illegal spying. The American People will soon stop listening to BushCo knowing everything out of their mouths is a big, fat Lie. Now back to my tivo.
on Blitzer just compared what Bush did/is doing to a drug dealer admitting to his business dealings on tv, then going right out back to the corner. I thought Sen. Spector was going to jump right out of his skin.
Feingold was awesome on CNN, and kept hammering on how Bush was lying, he was breaking the law and undermining the Constitution. He kept saying it over and over no matter how many times Wolf and Spector tried to throw him off.
As I quoted Sen. Feingold in a piece yesterday:
The government is basically being run as a protection racket.
Russ is the man.
…of something Bill Maher said back in March 2004:
“Attorney General John Ashcroft is in intensive care [suffering from a severe case of pacreatitis]…They think he might have picked up some type of infection while wiping his ass with the Bill of Rights.“
That’s the attitude displayed by all of these people who dare call themselves our leaders (well, except for the part about pancreatitis).
Court system. That is the message and lesson from this illegal act. We cannot trust him to appoint any more justices to any of the US Courts. If we are a Nation of Laws, and the President does not believe in our court system then we have no democracy. If indeed, Bush did believe in our justices and Court system, he would have taken the correct path and the extra few minutes it would have taken to get his wiretape/spying approved by a justice and then proceeded with his spying. By not using the courts that to me is proof that he doesn’t believe in them. Along with Bush breaking the law and spitting on the Constitution, him overiding the Courts is the message we should be putting out. I guess he was afraid he would have run into an “Activist” judge and been turned down..with the Judge citing the Constitution and our right to privacy. He must be impeached and not be allowed to appoint one more justice to any courts in the land.
What I find interesting is that we have been asking for these debates to be made upfront and direct. Like Alito and NCLB and Clear Skies and SS, and so many other issues, the repubs lie and hide and obfuscate, so we suggest maybe having a real debate believing that the American people can’t approve of the Bushies when they have the truth in front of them.
Well, now is that time. They are not hiding. They are admitting what they have been doing. Now is the time to win this. Now is the time to bring America back.
is the fact of their biggest mistake: buying into the whole “war on terrorism” propaganda blitz. Once you call it a war, you open the door to Constitutional and legal violations limited only by the intelligence and integrity of government “leaders”. In this case, of course, 2 1/2 of the three branches of government are utterly without either.
In their panic to pander to the mindlessly frightened, Dems and Reps alike chose comforting nonsense over reality. There can be no “war” without known enemies, without armies, without a definition of victory to set as a goal. But it sure makes for good soundbites, and nothing is more important than that, even in a time of national crisis.
Opposition to the fascist coup that is now taking place in America will have to begin by calling the lie that is the “war on terrorism”. To my stunned surprise, Feingold seems to be pretty much doing that. He is one of the few Dem leaders who still offers some hope for a turning back to basic principles of inherent rights and national honor. We need to put most of our time and energy into backing him and the few others who are willing to inject some truth into the disgusting punch and judy show that’s being passed off as debate on terrorism.
This is making a Feingold fan of me. From now on, he’s my first choice in polls on 2008.
Please take a moment to read this review of the re-issue of It Can’t Happen Here, by Sinclair Lewis. Then read what James Otis had to say about Writs of Assistance, which authorized the King’s agents to search and seize without warrants, back in 1761.
Your congresscritters might want to be reminded of them, as well.
The governments in this country heretofore have always been by people operating from the same basic set of rules. Dems, Repubs, whatever, all had the same basic agreements about respecting the Constitution and the Bill of Rights while they did what they could to put their vision of the correct way into the mainstream.
Now, we have an administration made up of people who regard our founding document, the Constitution, as “a goddamned piece of paper,” to quote a story about the boy king. They are not people who observe the rule book, and we are a nation of people who operate by rules.
So now what? We’re also not, most of us, given to storming through the streets or inflicting physical violence on people. Our methods have always been verbal–letters, phone calls, various forms of communication–or in recent years by passive resistance.
We have a full-blown consitutional crisis on our hands, boys and girls. The question now is whether we can get Congress off its collective ass to do anything about it.
I can’t imagine why we don’t just take away terrorist guns right now, before they use them to hijack a plane and plow into the white house.
I can’t imagine why the terrorists’ right to have guns in the antiquated constitution has become a suicide pact. When are terrorists going to start randomly popping off at crowds like the sniper in DC, so we have to constantly live in fear? Or do they want us to live in fear?