It never fails to go shopping around for information, now does it??!! Look at what I found from a link from firedoglake today. I have been debating whether to give it to you all or not. I am just not legal minded enough to figure this stuff out on my own, but here is the smoking gun, my DEARS!!!! I sure hope this has got the punch I think it has. Article written by Glenn Greenwald.
Read onward with me, if you will…sooooo exciting
Tuesday, January 24, 2006
The Administration’s new FISA defense is factually false
In light of Gen. Hayden’s new claim yesterday that the reason the Bush Administration decided to eavesdrop outside of FISA is because the “probable cause” standard for obtaining a FISA warrant was too onerous (and prevented them from obtaining warrants they needed to eavesdrop), there is a fact which I have not seen discussed anywhere but which now appears extremely significant, at least to me.
In June, 2002, Republican Sen. Michael DeWine of Ohio introduced legislation (S. 2659) which would have eliminated the exact barrier to FISA which Gen. Hayden yesterday said is what necessitated the Administration bypassing FISA. Specifically, DeWine’s legislation proposed:
to amend the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 to modify the standard of proof for issuance of orders regarding non-United States persons from probable cause to reasonable suspicion. . . .
In other words, DeWine’s bill, had it become law, would have eliminated the “probable cause” barrier (at least for non-U.S. persons) which the Administration is now pointing to as the reason why it had to circumvent FISA.
During that time, the Administration was asked to advise Congress as to its position on this proposed amendment to loosen the standard for obtaining FISA warrants, and in response, they submitted a Statement from James A. Baker, the Justice Department lawyer who oversees that DoJ’s Office of Intelligence Policy and Review, which is the group that “prepares and presents all applications for electronic surveillance and physical search under the Act to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISA Court or Court).” If anyone would be familiar with problems in obtaining FISA warrants, it would be Baker.
And yet, look at what Baker said in his Statement. He began by effusively praising the Patriot Act on the ground that the 72-hour window provided by the Patriot Act had given the Administration the speed and flexibility it needed in order to engage in eavesdropping:
The reforms in those measures (the PATRIOT Act) have affected every single application made by the Department for electronic surveillance or physical search of suspected terrorists and have enabled the government to become quicker, more flexible, and more focused in going “up” on those suspected terrorists in the United States.
One simple but important change that Congress made was to lengthen the time period for us to bring to court applications in support of Attorney General-authorized emergency FISAs. This modification has allowed us to make full and effective use of FISA’s pre-existing emergency provisions to ensure that the government acts swiftly to respond to terrorist threats. Again, we are grateful for the tools Congress provided us last fall for the fight against terrorism. Thank you.
And then, regarding DeWine’s specific proposal to lower the evidentiary standard required for a FISA warrant, Baker said that:
The Department of Justice has been studying Sen. DeWine’s proposed legislation. Because the proposed change raises both significant legal and practical issues, the Administration at this time is not prepared to support it.
So, in June, 2002, the Administration refused to support elimination of the very barrier (“probable cause”) which Gen. Hayden claimed yesterday necessitated the circumvention of FISA. In doing so, the Administration identified two independent reasons for opposing this amendment. One reason was that the Justice Department was not aware of any problems which the Administration was having in getting the warrants it needed under FISA:
The practical concern involves an assessment of whether the current “probable cause” standard has hamstrung our ability to use FISA surveillance to protect our nation. We have been aggressive in seeking FISA warrants and, thanks to Congress’s passage of the USA PATRIOT Act, we have been able to use our expanded FISA tools more effectively to combat terrorist activities. It may not be the case that the probable cause standard has caused any difficulties in our ability to seek the FISA warrants we require, and we will need to engage in a significant review to determine the effect a change in the standard would have on our ongoing operations. If the current standard has not posed an obstacle, then there may be little to gain from the lower standard and, as I previously stated, perhaps much to lose.
So as of June, 2002 — many months after the FISA bypass program was ordered — the DoJ official who was responsible for overseeing the FISA warrant program was not aware (at least when he submitted this Statement) of any difficulties in obtaining warrants under the FISA “probable cause” standard, and for that reason, the Administration would not even support DeWine’s amendment. If – as the Administration is now claiming – they had such significant difficulties obtaining the warrants they wanted for eavesdropping that they had to go outside of FISA, surely Baker – who was in charge of obtaining those warrants – would have been aware of them. And, if the Administration was really having the problems under FISA, they would have supported DeWine’s Amendment. But they didn’t.
The second concern the Administration expressed with DeWine’s amendment was that it was quite possibly unconstitutional:
The Department’s Office of Legal Counsel is analyzing relevant Supreme Court precedent to determine whether a “reasonable suspicion” standard for electronic surveillance and physical searches would, in the FISA context, pass constitutional muster. The issue is not clear cut, and the review process must be thorough because of what is at stake, namely, our ability to conduct investigations that are vital to protecting national security. If we err in our analysis and courts were ultimately to find a “reasonable suspicion” standard unconstitutional, we could potentially put at risk ongoing investigations and prosecutions.
By that time, the Administration had already been engaging in eavesdropping outside of the parameters of FISA, and yet the DoJ itself was expressing serious doubts about the constitutionality of that eavesdropping and even warned that engaging in it might harm national security because it would jeopardize prosecutions against terrorists. Put another way, the DoJ was concerned that it might be unconstitutional to eavesdrop with a lower standard than probable cause even as the Administration was doing exactly that.
Two other points to note about this failed DeWine Amendment that are extremely important:
(1) Congress refused to enact the DeWine Amendment and thus refused to lower the FISA standard from “probable cause” to “reasonable suspicion.” It is the height of absurdity for the Administration to now suggest that Congress actually approved of this change and gave it authorization to do just that — when Congress obviously had no idea it was being done and refused to pass that change into law when it had the chance.
(2) DeWine’s amendment would have lowered the standard for obtaining a FISA warrant only for non-U.S. persons — whereas for “U.S. persons,” the standard would have continued to be “probable cause.” And, DeWine’s amendment would not have eliminated judicial oversight, since the Administration still would have needed approval of the FISA court for these warrants.
That means that, in 2 different respects, DeWine’s FISA amendment was much, much less draconian than what the Administration was already secretly doing (i.e., lowering the evidentiary standard but (i) eliminating judicial oversight, and (ii) applying these changes not just to non-U.S. persons but also to U.S. persons). Thus, Congress refused to approve — and the DoJ even refused to endorse — a program much less extreme and draconian than the Administration’s secret FISA bypass program.
This has extremely significant implications for the Administration’s claims made yesterday through Gen. Hayden as to why it was necessary to bypass FISA. The Administration’s claim that the “probable cause” component of FISA was preventing it from engaging in the eavesdropping it needed is the opposite of what it told Congress when refusing to support the DeWine Amendment. And its claim that Congress knew of and approved of its FISA-bypassing eavesdrop program is plainly negated by the fact that the same Congress was debating whether such changes should be effectuated and then refused to approve much less extreme changes to FISA than what the Administration secretly implemented on its own (and which it now claims Congress authorized).
The Administration is stuck with the excuse given by Gen. Hayden yesterday as to why it had to eavesdrop outside of FISA, but that excuse is plainly contradicted by these events and by the Administration’s own statements at the time.
I really would like for the general to explain this one to me, if he would!! Besides, this is what he is confused about when he cant determine the real meaning of the 4th admendment. Bless his little heart!! I would like to take h im and shake him till it falls right out of his pants or head, which ever! If he ever had one…that is…
Holy shit! Great catch! This is big.
Their “legal” explanations are so full of holes that even I can understand how full of shit they are. Incompetence in action.
I agree Nag, this to me is the smoking gun..I really do…Thanks
Heh! I posted excerpts of this in the open thread. Here’s the link to Greenwald’s site.
Steven Aftergood of FAS has a piece referring to it at truthout, and there is another piece at MediaMatters.
The story doesn’t seem to have made it into the MSM yet.
What it makes clear is that the administration was not willing to accept judicial oversight, & we all know the most likely reasons for that position.
Oh sorry I did not read all this that you mentioned. That is what I get for not keeping my mouth shut…:o(
No, no! I just wanted to get the link to Greenwald’s piece out there. Too lazy to write up a diary. The other two links just talk about his article.
Thank you for taking the time!
Thank you for clearing that one up for me. I thought I had missed out again on a very important diary. Thank you for helping me along here. I need all the help I can get. :o)
Here’s more: apparently, the Bush Administration also thought that the whole idea could be unconstitutional!!!
The Department’s Office of Legal Counsel is analyzing relevant Supreme Court precedent to determine whether a “reasonable suspicion” standard for electronic surveillance and physical searches would, in the FISA context, pass constitutional muster. The issue is not clear cut, and the review process must be thorough because of what is at stake, namely, our ability to conduct investigations that are vital to protecting national security. If we err in our analysis and courts were ultimately to find a “reasonable suspicion” standard unconstitutional, we could potentially put at risk ongoing investigations and prosecutions.
By that time, the Administration had already been engaging in eavesdropping outside of the parameters of FISA, and yet the DoJ itself was expressing serious doubts about the constitutionality of that eavesdropping and even warned that engaging in it might harm national security because it would jeopardize prosecutions against terrorists. Put another way, the DoJ was concerned that it might be unconstitutional to eavesdrop with a lower standard than probable cause even as the Administration was doing exactly that.
oh yes indeed! This blurted out to me as well. I think this needs to be combined with your diary and then we have an argument to boot…yours and mine make things so clear to me. I am just now getting my mind around what is really happening here.
Yeah, it all fits, doesn’t it? Amazing how transparent and Mickey Mouse their whole operation can be.
it sure does fit!
I read this on dkos yesterday. Thanks for bringing it here.
Geeze Louise, this is what I get for not going to the kos anymore. I am so glad to get this out in the open. This needs to be the talking point as far as I am concerned. To me this blew haydens argument all to hell.
Great diary brenda…and just how many smoking guns is it going to take before all these criminals are smoked out anyway?
CI, makes me wonder if we arent shooting blanks mostly. To me this makes holes bigger than the state of Texas in their argument and that dubya is trully acting like a dictator. We just need to make something stick for gods sake..just once and then it will take off like a jet breaking the sound barrier.
Maybe they are waiting for a 21 smoking gun tribute?
But, Seriously, i think it’s because the corporate run press knows that when Bush goes down the corporate – party -is done for. No more kick backs. No more favoritism. No more “exclusives.” Just good old fashioned hard work … and probably a lot of mono-duopolistic break ups as the new admin has to fix all the fuck ups of this admin.
I know I’m cynical ..but big media is made up of big corporations. It should be no surprise to us that the majority of us are in the dark.
and you’ve got an open and shut case against him.
DTF, at least I am out there humping to find out the truth and facts about things. OH BTW, I am still holding you to the ethics diary….when it is coming forth? :o) What do you mean I have an army here at booman…:o) I am just the messanger, do not killme..:o)
find the truth out about things.
In the current situation, that takes a lot of courage.
Forgive me, but you will have to refresh my memory about the ethics diary. Is there a politician who is suspected of having ethics, and I was supposed to debunk such a smear?
OH DTF, you amaze me with your comment. I thought you remembered everything about everything….:o)
NO one day we were discussing the ethics of things and you really did say a compliment to me on what I said and I actually unbeknownst to you got you to say you just might have to write up a diary on ethics.
everything about everything but now that I am so heavily medicated I forget things from time to time.
BTW, the phone feels really refreshing against your ear after it’s been in the refrigerator for a while.
I just posted a whole bucket of ethics in this comment
…well, actually I was thinking of the study of said topic….
Sorry you are not doing so well. I wish you a good night tho..hope you find something that takes the pain away. Hugs…another time, another place maybe…:o)
I will work on it Brenda, I remember now that I said I would, and I will. If not an actual study, at least a rant 😀
And thanks for your good wishes!
:o)..DTF, I can come off…well, you know, sometimes. I do not want to hurt your feelings what so ever…but I think you ahve tough skin and I can say anything I want to you…and you would understand.
Thanks, Dear Heart. and do please get to feeling better..hugs…and sm looking forward to the diary…too…:o)
Please do not expend a molecule of worry on that front, I did completely forget about the ethics diary, and I did put the phone in the refrigerator. None of that hurts my feelings either, it is bound to happen when one swallows enough pills 😀
Thanks Brenda for bringing this here. I too read elsewhere but cannot remember where for the life of me. Seems like a smoking gun to me but so many things have had me saying that. Guess I am getting more and more cynical as each crime against humanity, each lie, each death takes the wind out of my sails. Will we ever truly be free again?
alohaleezy, I do agree with you; however, this time and the way the WH is going out to rebut this evesdropping they have done, seems that they do know that they have broken the law. I think things are piling up on them. All the investigations and such are so many nowadays. This is why we must win the house back and make the senate as close as possible to marginalize the republicans. Then maybe we have a chance in gaining a path to making them toxic. They just do not have any respect for the population, we the ppl. They do not care about anyone but themselves and the very rich. The rhetoric that push on us that we are at war, well that is horse manure to dismantle our constitution. We must and I say it again, must keep pushing against them…we just must!
Well, I guess you are more hopeful than I am and that is a good thing. I had a discussion with my son last evening. The people are apathetic and that is what helped to shape the state of the country right now. When only 50% of registered voters turn out as did in the last election, we the people have to take some of the blame. When 8 Dem Senators say they will not vote for a filibuster with a Cabal of Fascists sitting in the White House and have the ability to strip us of our Constitutional rights what the F do they have to lose in filibustering. If not now, when? It is a flipping election year and I do not understand the Dems not wanting to show us they have backbone and want our vote. It is sickening, frustrating and scaring the hell out of me right now. Keep the faith? I just don’t know anymore. The Repugs keep reshaping the debate, no matter what the debate is about. NSA spying is now “terrorist servelience program”? The average uninformed American that watches Faux news and the bs propoganda will just nod and say, “Bush is just trying to protect of from an attack”.
Dana Bash, last night on CNN made fun of the fact that the White House is trying to pressure the media to use “terrorist surveillance program” instead of “domestic spying.” Honestly, they think they can get away with murder if they just word it differently.
Unfortunately, so far, it has worked for them. As long as the media picks up their meme or talking points they will get away with it. Our second biggest problem is the f’ing media SN. I forced myself to watch two minutes of Faux last night during Hannity hate show and the banner on the bottom was nothing but quotes taken out of context from Dems. They make Bagdad Bob look like a first grader. The really sad part is that it is all of the media we are up against now.
NOw you hit the nail on the head! If we cant get the truth out there in la la land, we have totally lot everything. The uninformed do not get it and with the press doing the WH bidding, we have lost everything we have fought for for decades!!!!!! I simply can not go through this fight again. Well, I will but I will be tired and feeble this time, not a young thing full of the will to fight.
Now that is encouraging. I call her “Bush’s Bimbo” because up until now, she mostly has been a breathless supporter of all things Bush. I’ve written a few emails to CNN suggesting that she consider moving to FoxNews… but I don’t think I phrased it quite that politely.;)
“Progressive Information Empowerment,” for example, many of the program’s harshest critics would feel obliged to rethink their views ;>
I did not sleep well last night thinking of all that is at stake for us. I thought of those fights we fought in the past to get our rights. Going back to the Revolution and such. Seems we do not learn well of the lessons we need to remember. Obviously the government doesnt remember the history. What is the dmocrats problem!!?? I never thougth in my lifetime I would see things like this happen…NEVER!!
This is tongue in cheek .. but i think there should be a rule against electing anyone with the first name ‘George.’ King George helped get us into the Revolution and now ‘Boy George’ is just flat helping himself!