I’m late to the party. Can someone fill us in on what has happened so far?
Update [2006-2-6 12:45:3 by BooMan]: Lunch break until 1:45 Eastern Time
Update [2006-2-6 13:3:15 by BooMan]: Do you think the American people will draw the obvious conclusions from the fact that the Republicans refused to place Gonzales under oath?
Diane Feinstein is up.
But it’s like ok, cuz he’s not under oath ya know thanks to Arlen.
The dems strategy in demanding he be sworn in seems to be working because everyone is focused on the fact that he could be lying since he WASN’t sworn in.
Sworn in or not makes no substantive legal difference. But it was great politics.
I have been watching most of this, did miss some bits, but I would say it’s exactly like we expected and Gonzales is answering like we expected.
He is making the circular arguments we have come to know and loathe.
My short review: The Senators are being very lawyerly and Senatorial. Unfortunately, their way of thinking and speaking is not the way great numbers of our fellow citizens think and talk. But if you follow their reasoning, the Dems are ripping him a pretty big new hole. It will be up others to translate their comments into language that is persuasive to the general public. My humble offering: “Breaking the law is not the way to go after the law-breakers.”
Yes.
(This is one reason why Senators make terrible presidential candidates. They seemingly can’t help coming off as being full of hot air.)
I love Diane Finestein and I think she is backing him in a corner….
She is asking him some good questions but he is not answering, (cause it may inform the turrorists, don’t you know.)
Slippery slope, is her point overall.
cause it may inform the turrorists, don’t you know…
The press are being incredibly thick about this. They need to take the mickey out of that excuse and call them on it.
All someone has to say when they answer like that is “you mean you don’t want to inform the terrorists or you don’t wish to inform the people of this democracy?”
It’s rude as hell and some people’s “access” (cough) may be shut down.. but if the press lock arms and all agree to it they’ll have the propagandists over a barrell. The whitehouse needs the press.
The press need to remember that.
You didn’t miss much. Gonzales is insisting everything Bush does is legal, and he is refusing to answer or bullshitting his way around all questions of substance. The GOP lemmings are doing their usual “Bush can do no wrong” bullshit.
I loved when Gonzales took offense at the suggestion that Bush lied when he said publicly that his administration always secures a court order before surveilling any one. He’ll probably order Feinstein to Guantanamo for that suggestion. Off with her head!
Sen Pete Sessions is not interested in investigating the program, but he is outraged that anyone would suggest the AG and the President are lying.
.. because the whole world is watching, apparently.
Mustn’t badmouth family in front of the neighbors.
yeah, the trend is toward more restraint. Gag me with a spoon.
Btw, I don’t have the specifics on this, but apparently a 911 widow was brought on stage early on.
A protestor was also removed from the proceedings wearing a subversive t-shirt.
I’ve only been able to hear bits and pieces today — but at one point there was some loud noise in the background that apparently was the protester being removed.
Thanks for the proper spelling on that, maryb 😉
Sen. Leahy speaking to NPR during break (paraphrasing):
Q. Senator, do you have a clearer idea now as to the legal justifications put forward by the administration for the surveillance program?
A. No. (States that he asked AG specifically regarding when the program was put into effect, but ‘he couldn’t answer the question’.) Says that they (I’m assuming Congress) have learned more about the program from the media than from the administration.
Q. Do you need to know what they’re doing, or is it sufficient for the issue to be brought before the FISA court?
A. We want to know if they’ve broken the law .. they’re just saying ‘terrorist, terrorist, terrorist & we’re above the law’. That’s not the way it works.
Q. How long will this hearing go on?
A. As long as it takes.
After the loud noise was removed, someone told Gonzales that he didn’t thing Gonza was a fascist.
The protestor called Abu Gonzales a fascist and was saying other, unintelligible, statements. It was pretty funny. Spector was so afronted that someone would disrupt his hearing.
http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizationsORG/ccr/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=2428
Once again, President Bush has broken the law. In violation of the Federal Intelligence Surveillance Act, President Bush has authorized the illegal surveillance of Americans without a warrant. Today, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales is testifying before Congress. Debate is good, but we need a special prosecutor to hold the Bush Administration accountable for its actions. Click here to join the Center for Constitutional Rights in writing your representative and the members of the Senate Judiciary Committee to call for a special prosecutor and the release of all the Justice Department memos regarding spying on U.S. citizens.
Watched it. Looks like more political theater. I’m pretty much in “give the fuck up” mode. Republican Congress is less likely to enforce the law against this President, than Islamic Republic Today is to publish drawing of their prophet in indecent pose. Hopeless. Specter is absolutely worthless. Blah, blah, blah, no oath needed. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Gonzales is a respectable spokeman who will have his opportunity to put out Administration spin on how it is okay to do anything.
Best part of hearing this morning was lone man in the back of hearing room, who rose and shouted at Gonzales, “You are a fascist.” Or words to that effect. Reporters ran to cover. Specter said sit down or you will be removed. He removed himeself, followed by Capitol Police. I’m sure he is in custody as I type. At least one American stood up. And the Republican questioner who followed the single true American said, “I can assure you AG Gonzales, that you are not a fascist.” “Thank you,” the fascist said.
Country is absolutely hopeless.
Russ Feingold up after lunch.
Overall, a GOP circlejerk…not a pretty sight.
I can’t shake the feeling that Abu Gonzalez was sent to the Justice Department for this exact moment in history. Let’s not forget that he was George’s counsel when they decided to circumvent this law, so he is the least credible person to give honest testimony. He’s there to cover his own ass, not just the Chimp’s.
It is beyond a farce that they didn’t put him under oath.
Also, Ashcroft has been very quiet since he left. How did he feel about all this crap?
He’s also the one that got GWB out of a sticky court testimony issue when GWB was Gov of Texas…not to mention funeralgate, moneygates….
I quite agree with you reg. covering his ass, I wasn’t aware he wasn’t put under oath, is that true.
What part did Ashcroff have in all of this, I wonder.
Apparently he was asked to appear and has not responded.
I posted a new diary with a few articles regarding Ashcroft’s dirty history in this mess.
As to BooMan’s question, will Americans draw appropriate conclusions from lack of oath?
Not judging from the wing-nuts I heard ranting on C-SPAN all morning. People are completely fucking clueless. It has led me to my state of “fuck it.”
This fucker could do anything. It wouldn’t matter. Well. Maybe if he declared himself and atheist, that might get him a ticket to impeachmentville. But short of that, it is just silly.
Clinton. Screws an intern and lies about it. Non-stop cable news media for two fucking years. Bush. Screws the constitution and every civil right and lies about it. Hear wing-nuts on cable news media for two fucking years complaining about people attacking a good man. I’m starting to get the picture.
I don’t know, the only thing I heard them really talk about on the radio earlier was the fact that Abu wasn’t sworn in.
Not that I’m surprised…it’s Arlen’s dog and pony show.
It doesn’t help the country but imagine a group of hell-bent for revenge democrats coming into office with all of these powers.
Gonzales almost seems to be smirking, he looks like he is amused to be answering the questions. According to that right handed/left handed thing, if he is right handed his eyes are drifting off to the right about half of the time indicating that he is accessing his “imagination” verses solid facts when he is constructing his answers.
I too am disturbed by his constant smiling when answering questions, as he did in his appointment hearings. Reminds me of Bush. What a shock that is.
It’s the same creepy smile that Conrad Black, Larry Franklin and others have had, mostly after guilty pleas. They know they’ve won.
Watched a short video clip on Crooks and Liars of him saying that G. Washington had authorized electronic surveillance (really).
I was struck by his mannerisms. They screamed that he was lying. Almost impossible to watch. TG no TV here.
Yeah, I’m ashamed to admit I watch. It’s one of my unhealthy addictions, along with oil dependence.
A fascinating body language reaction is when AG is forced to say something critical of GWB or BushCo. He won’t and the physical reactions show all signs of fear and intimidation, like the victim of psychological abuse over a long time.
The American People?
Only a tiny, tiny subset of the American People are watching or listening to this. The remainder of the American People will only draw their conclusions from what the traditional media shows them in the small moment amount of time that they allow for it on the TV news.
I thought it was smart of Feingold to provoke the confrontation over swearing in because of the possibility that confrontation might make it onto the TV news and allow the dems to do some spin of their own about this lying administration.
Plus the legal significance of it seems to be confusing to “our side” and gets everybody worked up — so we’ll all have the perfect opportunity to bring up the word “lies” in everyday conversation about the hearings.
I’m only watching in hopes that somebody makes torture boy cry – he’s come close with Leahy and Feinstein. I hope Russ can put him over the edge. What a weiner this guy is. Now Scotty is in the doublespeak competition.
Where do these people come from?
Stepford?
🙂
The whole ‘swearing in” thing was bizarre.
First: that Specter said he wasn’t doing it.
Then: the argument by Dems to do it.
Then: the vote–along party lines.
Specter’s argument seemed to be: I’m not going to swear him in because I’m the Chairman and I decided not to and I can do what I want so na na na na na.
Discredited Specter in my eyes, and as someone else said—got the issue out there that he could be lying. But if it doesn’t make the MSM spin, who will know?
Feingold is on!
Feingold:
“The president has a pre-1776 view of the world.”
You know what’s awesome? I think Kennedy also equated fear of terrorism to fear of nuclear armageddon during the Cold War. That and the example you cite are both things I’ve seen on blogs in the past week. Looks like these guys wised up and are having their researchers check the blogs for good smackdowns.
Russ comes out swinging — basically accusing AG of intentionally misleading responses under oath for his confirmation hearings in order to be confirmed. His honesty presently, therefore, is questionable.
The only argument point I didn’t hear was that Gonzales is maintaining that the wiretap is legal but he has based this assumption only on the WH admin legal understanding.
Right — a crucial point, left untouched thus far.
(Can’t stand Graham, currently taking a breather.)
Schumer is hitting this head on as we speak. He’s trying to nail down Gnz as to ex-admin employees who dissented from the legal favor on their ability to testify. Go Schu!
BooMan, who will tell them he wasn’t under oath? I’m sure the corporate media won’t go into too many of the details of these hearing. It’s their job to keep people uninformed, after all.
Maybe the cool lizard that sends the truth out to find a home in someone’s ear.
The corporate media doesn’t think there is a story unless there is video. If the disagreement between Feingold and Spector over swearing in is the best video of the day, that’s what they’ll go with.
Personally I found Lindsay Graham’s questioning to be the most fascinating of the day (that I’ve heard). So if I were picking clips, that’s what I’d show. But I’m not representative of the great American Public.
Specter blocked the excellent DVD that was prepared for presentation.
Earlier, Sen Graham was tressing the ‘exclusive’ route of authority in FISA that has been circumvented by the admin. He seems to stand that the FISA regs are the Congress approval of ‘the exclusive’…meaning only one…way to conduct this surveillance. Gonz maintains inherent authority but Graham says by logic this could suspend any or all matters decided by Congress. He’s excited about round 2 of questioning.
Did anyone see Leahy just smack him down big time? WOW! Hatch just went through the blah blah blah that well Clinton did it so we can too crap.
Damn I missed Leahy. Tell more.
<snark>
Oh,….sigh,..
<snark=large>
…that’s ri-i-i-i-ght,…you can’t answer any real questions about…..
</snark>
The president and his AG view FISA as the statute to be ruled by when it is convenient to their ends.
When it becomes inconvenient, they hop to vague assurances that the administration isn’t violating Aricle II of the Constitution, or insisting that the “grant of force” to conduct the war on terror (and on Iraq) gives them carte blanche to achieve their ends, or that the president possesses the “inherent power” to do as he wishes because these are hostile times.
This latter is the modus operandus of choice in the Bush Administration, saying that Congress, in authorizing the President to respond to the 9/11 attacks, gave the President the authority to take action — apparently any action.
The listener can only conclude that this is an unassailable argument to hide behind, for who can challenge it? Over and over again in these hearings one hears the phrase “who/what the president determins to be. . .” a terrorist threat. The White House is convinced that presidential “inherent authority” allows him to do what he alone deems necessary to protect the nation. BushCo has determined to live by the sword it wields until Congress attempts to restrict its use with specific prohibitive legislation — and then it will choose to ignore that legislation for the same reasons above. Obviously, that sword is the Sword of Unlimited Power.
If that isn’t the definition of tyranny, I’d like to hear a better one.
Gonzales can’t very well complain about media muddling of stories when he refuses to provide information that could straighten it out.
“Do you think the American people will draw the obvious conclusions”…? Not unless they are continually hit over the head with the “obvious.” (do they make a special hammer for that?) Given who pays the bills and salaries of the media these days, I find that highly unlikely. Specter’s comments that the Prez “may have broken the law…” seems to have been just another smokescreen.
that because of his exalted position in the government, some part of his job description means he’s telling the truth.
You asked:
“Do you think the American people will draw the obvious conclusions from the fact that the Republicans refused to place Gonzales under oath?”