This comes as no surprise to some of us. The wiretapping issue is serious and deserves the attention it gets but there are other programs far more dangerous.
Here are a few realities we have come to accept so far.
- Every noncash purchase we make is recorded electronically in detail.
All personal medical and financial information is highly detailed, documented, archived, profiled, owned and brokered by several different private companies
Our telecommunications(phone calls) and email are documented, archived, available for sale, wiretapped, profiled and marketed.
Our internet search records have been recorded and archived by the various search engines and that data is archived in databases.
Our blog entries, comments, website form data, and similar thoughts are recorded in electronic digital format and stored by the entities that own the sites we interact on.
Our ISP services keep detailed records of all of our online activities
This is only a partial list and each of us could easily add more to the understanding of how everything we do is somehow documented and stored for future reference. We have come to accept this in several ways while some methods have been forced on us. Profiles are created for marketing purposes to make our lives easier. Storing favorite bookmarks, targeted content, preferences, newsletter lists, book topic announcements, alerts and again more ways than I can list here.
I have mentioned in comments here before the possible scenario of being turned down for a loan or other application based on a summary of the applicant’s internet browser history log. It’s not tinfoil terroitory and the threat of wrongfull prosecution by misperception of data is with us. The evolution and development of software to conduct data analysis through deep data mining enables the govt and/or private companies to connect all of the dots in our lives based on the factors they choose to profile.
Check out the power of this program called ADVISE
Little-known data-collection system could troll news, blogs, even e-mails. Will it go too far?
The US government is developing a massive computer system that can collect huge amounts of data and, by linking far-flung information from blogs and e-mail to government records and intelligence reports, search for patterns of terrorist activity.The system – parts of which are operational, parts of which are still under development – is already credited with helping to foil some plots. It is the federal government’s latest attempt to use broad data-collection and powerful analysis in the fight against terrorism. But by delving deeply into the digital minutiae of American life, the program is also raising concerns that the government is intruding too deeply into citizens’ privacy.
“We don’t realize that, as we live our lives and make little choices, like buying groceries, buying on Amazon, Googling, we’re leaving traces everywhere,” says Lee Tien, a staff attorney with the Electronic Frontier Foundation. “We have an attitude that no one will connect all those dots. But these programs are about connecting those dots – analyzing and aggregating them – in a way that we haven’t thought about. It’s one of the underlying fundamental issues we have yet to come to grips with.”
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A major part of ADVISE involves data-mining – or “dataveillance,” as some call it. It means sifting through data to look for patterns. If a supermarket finds that customers who buy cider also tend to buy fresh-baked bread, it might group the two together. To prevent fraud, credit-card issuers use data-mining to look for patterns of suspicious activity.
What sets ADVISE apart is its scope. It would collect a vast array of corporate and public online information – from financial records to CNN news stories – and cross-reference it against US intelligence and law-enforcement records. The system would then store it as “entities” – linked data about people, places, things, organizations, and events, according to a report summarizing a 2004 DHS conference in Alexandria, Va. The storage requirements alone are huge – enough to retain information about 1 quadrillion entities, the report estimated. If each entity were a penny, they would collectively form a cube a half-mile high – roughly double the height of the Empire State Building.
Here In Reality has some information on one of the architects responsible for this ability
…That day, John M. Poindexter was appointed Director of the Pentagon’s Information Awareness Office.
Who’s John Poindexter?
A retired Navy Admiral, John Poindexter lost his job as National Security Adviser under Ronald Reagan, and was convicted of conspiracy, lying to Congress, defrauding the government, and destroying evidence in the Iran Contra scandal. [1]What’s the Information Awareness Office (IAO)?
It’s a new office created by the Pentagon agency DARPA after 9/11 to gather intelligence through electronic sources like the internet, phone, and fax lines. [2]Why did John Poindexter get the job?
He was the Vice President of Syntek Technologies, a government contractor. Syntek and Poindexter worked for years with DARPA to develop Genoa, a surveillance device that’s a combination cutting-edge search engine, sophisticated information harvesting program”, and a “peer-to-peer” file sharing system. Kind of a military-grade Google/Napster for use in instant analysis of electronic data.So John Poindexter, along with Oliver North and many others, went behind President Reagan’s back (supposedly) and sold weapons to the Iranians (illegally), then took the money they made and funneled it to the brutal “Contra” army that they built in Central America (also illegally). See [1] [3]
It should be noted that while outrage and debate have been known concerning felons voting, it appears acceptable to give GOP hero felons the keys to the jail. It’s crucial to remember that a large percentage of voters consider these guys heros and it would be no shock to see more of North pushing for total surveillance and votes, both.
This isn’t exclusively a govt trust issue involved. It’s crucial to consider that these programs are run by private contractors.
There’s another iceberg called Starlight
DHS to upgrade enforcement systems
Sytel, based in Bethesda, Md., led a team that received a task order under ICE’s Starlight contract to carry out the Enforcement Systems Program. The task order includes an initial $6.5 million base year and as many as five option years that could bring the value of the contract to as much as $34 million, EDS said.
EDS will operate under a subcontract to provide planning, maintenance, development, help desk, database and operations support for the following systems:
—
- Enforcement Integrated Database, a central repository for enforcement data
- Apprehension Booking Module, a system for capturing data on illegal alien activity and supporting DHS programs to arrest, detain and deport aliens
- Worksite Enforcement Activity Reporting System, also known as Lynx, which stores and retrieves data about employers who violate immigration laws
- Criminal Alien Investigation System, which automates investigation work related to deportation cases
- Deportable Alien Control System, which automates ICE’s deportable alien tracking
- General Counsel Electronic Management system, a case management system for ICE attorneys
- Detention and Removal Operations Program Support, which automates investigations flagged by the interagency Joint Terrorist Task Forces as high profile or related to terrorist activity.
Now, I think the issue is how the govt can manipulate all of our information to create a threat profile in order to prosecute any one of us. However, in light of the ‘tinfoillly’ nature of this subject, I have one other suggestion.
FBI internet surveillance: Is oversight possible?
Wait a second. In this AP article on how the FBI’s Carnivore’s internet wiretap software has been replaced by “superior” commercial wiretap software….
From the same site, just for the appreciation of all things tinfoilly…
File this one under bizarre, but POGO pal LC was listening to the Starlight Mints, an Oklahoma band often compared to the Flaming Lips, and noticed that Track 5 of one of their CDs is titled, “Valerie Flames.”
This diary is not comprehensive on the subject and intended only as a means to encourage either individual research or surrender.
If the democrats want to win based in part on fiscal responsibility, stop wasting our tax dollars to screw us into submission. At least get competitive bidding when you sell us out.
Unless Google or similar company gets the contract I’m not as concerned as I might otherwise be….
The ability to tap into our emails, etc. has always been there – way back to the mid-90’s. The government’s ability to implement it is what keeps us safe.
– We’ve had multi-million dollar fiascos of databases / software for CA’s department of motor vehicles.
– This week TSA said they couldn’t get the software to work to match the suspected terrorist list to the list of all air passengers.
– It took years (read decades) for the IRS to have the Philadelphia computers talk to the Fresno computers.
So for now I’ll fight the surveillance. But I accept that generally the giant programming projects are flawed and it will take 5-10 years to get it straight. More time to fight and get these guys out of office and power.
Also – remember the most of the people in these jobs (accumulating data) are just average Americans working to pay the mortgage, put the kids through school, and maybe someday retire. IRS has a nasty reputation – but most of them that I know are really super nice average people.
I think this is the common misconception that’s held, that our individual bits of information are safe because they aren’t all in one file.
The contracted software services can mine any data from any public and/or private and/or govt database at any time. No warrants required. This has taken years to get to but it’s a bipartisan effort.
I don’t think this information is protected in any way.
Not to disagree – data mining is a fact of life and I agree with that.
Having worked inside government tax agencies and court agencies, particularly with regards to software implementations, I don’t think it will work overall.
There are selected aspects that can be mined anytime by any agency, IF, and that’s big IF, they can get analysts to work it. The ultimate utilization and handling of the data needs to be done by analyst. See CIA, etc.
Just don’t see big brother happening to the degree you indicated for another 15-20 years.
It’s all outsourced to private companies who work up threat assessments by using technology/software to mine databases from a wide variety of sources to detect patterns of potential threat.
Our legislators approve billions in tax dollars to buy these services.
were outsourced to private contractors! Not one of them was internal to the government agency.
Still going to disagree….now I’m off to 5 hours of meetings (yuck!)
SallyCat – as a former IRS employee, it is my instinct to agree with you.
HOWEVER, see my post below. I wrote it this morning when I first saw this diary on the recent list, then sat on it for several hours, because, damnit, I’m scared! But I took a deep breath and hit “post” because the attitude that we don’t – yet – have anything to worry about, well, worries me.
I am very worried that these programs are much more efficient than the usual government programs and that they are much farther along with this than anyone yet realizes.
It’s not the everyday employee that I’m concerned about. They aren’t doing anything wrong.
Also from the first linked article, emphasis mine.
I recommended the diary and gave you a 4, so I guess we get adjoining cells.
Seriously, though, I suspect what will happen is that everyone will get a secret “reliability quotient” similar to a credit rating. If you apply for a job with the government (at any level) or a government contractor and your score is less than xxx you’ll just not be invited in for an interview. I suspect this is in fact already in place.
…Creating an economic incentive to be a good little sheeple. The people I feel the worst for are the young, who will have to weigh the long-term costs to their family for exercising free speech: “Will posting on BMT mean my kids won’t get to go to college?” Which means speech really ain’t free now, doesn’t it?
Welcome to the USSR – United States Security Republic.
My hope is that we can get public awareness and legislators who take this issue seriously. I’m sure that draws another red flag for my futile optimism and I’ll now be targeted for mass mailings of inexpensive free offers of infomercial products.
😀
Then you need to see Soj’s diary “Security tips everyone should know,” LOL!
I’ve tried to but I can’t access that diary. It must be a glitch or something. I keep getting redirected Security Tips Everyone Should Know
😀
Here’s another discussion (TPMCafe) and more links if anyone is interested
Move over Echelon, Advise is spying on terrorists now (and you)
First thing I read this morning, that should jump start the waking process.
The private companies in this scare me, there is always some slim,far chance to reform gov. but with the private contractors we’re helpless. And knowing that the data is not only in one file but open to more people than I can count who may have use for it, identity theft, blackmail or perhaps just have an ax to grind…it’s not a good place to be. If something spurious is placed in your file what recourse do you have? Would you even know? If so, how? Aside from the black helicopters hovering over you house…
ugh, well, at least I’m wide awake now.
They seem to have switched to using drones now instead of the black helicopters. They have a unique sound and are much cheaper (if competitive bidding is followed) to operate by remote location.
:).
Yeah, I’m with you on the risks. I noticed back in 2003 especially, the provocation tendencies on some political boards. There would be no law to prevent an employee of these contracted security companies to be an interactive element in monitored conversations…just as one possibility. I’m convinced that entities were highly active under the direction of GOP and/or Rove or think tanks to control the war image propaganda.
So let’s give them something to sit straightup in their collective chairs about. Start googling and bookmarking iffy words and sites. let’s see how fast they come knocking on our doors. They want to trap us? Let’s give them some of their own medicine.
Oh, they have it all already. The thing to do now is to stand up as a group to make sure nobody gets abused by that power.
I very sincerely hope you are right that standing together and making noise will help. See my post below.
Yes, I am betting my life on it.
I wanted to add to my reply below that the degrees of seperation are a real factor that these programs use. The connections and criteria that any profile is based on is variable. This is why we need to stand up for others who have been wrongly prosecuted primarily on extremely flimsy circumstanial electronic evidence.
The two things in the CSm article that really stood out were:
As far as people being prosecuted — it does appear as if the “eco-terror” suspects arrested in the Pacific Northwest & Sacramento, CA had been subjected to electronic surveillance. It’s unclear at this point just what that entailed (& may never come out). More insidious is the use of informants who may very well have been also acting as agents provacateurs as well. The 20 year old informant in the CA case received $75,000 over two years, & was quoted in court appearnces as being highly anxious to ‘do something.’
Cointelpro revisited?
There were many good sources about that infiltration and the sources were centered around Indymedia who had their servers seized on an international request associated with Rackspace, IIRC. This happened in the Fall of 04 and it was an odd incident. The fianl explanation came down to a report of a photo of an Italian intel guy that required removal to protect identity. I never looked at the pic but I followed the story. Those servers here in the US were the same ones that are part of GWB/Ebersol/GOPUSA friend in Texas-Everyone’s Internet or EVI that coincidently were the servers for many false Islamic extremist websites.
Scary stuff, but I can’t agree with this statement.
Lenders are in the business of making money, nothing more, nothing less. Credit reporting agencies already have a wealth of information. I really can’t envision having a loan denied based upon internet searches or surfing. If there is profit to be made and the risk to the lender is reasonable (borrower has a decent credit report), then the transaction will go forward.
I appreciate disagreement in thinking and welcome the chance to discuss ideas in better detail. It’s not a matter of agreement but sharing ideas.
You’re right that lenders are in the business of making money, but they also go to great lengths to limit risks. If a chance is present to find out information to limit risk then it’s part of their job to obtain that information.
Somewhere, a person is serving a prison sentence for searching a subject on the internet that was considered a risk. Surely this technology should be used to prevent billions in dollars lost due to nonpayment, default, fraud, unacceptable risk.
Pre-existing conditions can be used to deny services or coverage in the health care field, deny loans, mortgages, grants…whatever is vulnerable to risk.
Somewhere, a person is serving a prison sentence for searching a subject on the internet that was considered a risk.
Is there any evidence of this? or is merely speculation?
fwiw, I’d agree with boran that it’s highly unlikely a loan would be turned down because of one’s browsing history.
This IS an important issue, both the private & gov’t sides (& of course their collusion) but it would seem better to focus on the facts & explaining why they raise privacy concerns than to indulge in scary speculation that only brings on argumentation & obfuscation. (To “prove” my point, while I understand your statement “they also go to great lengths to limit risks” I want to point to the recent history of the credit card companies’ campaigns to enroll more Americans in stifling debt).
No problem just give me a little time. I had a nice comment done and ready to post and I lost it. I’m starting over on it now.
hey,
My last might sound kinda pissy — if it came across that way, my apologies. I tend to write in a terse manner.
& if it wasn’t clear, I don’t think you’re in tin-foil territory, but onto something that needs MUCH highlighting.
btw, I posted a bit about Cambone for yr research files.
Hey, thanks for that link.
The internet searches as a prosecution are part of the case for at least a few of the post 9/11 prosecutions, like Iyman Faris. His searches for info on gliders to be used as getaway vehicles (rollyeye emote) or the tool to cut/torch the B Bridge susp cables are an example. Other instances are documented. Also interesting is the pattern of KSM (I think he’s the one in this case) soliciting others to do this research which turns out to be nearly ridiculously implausable and discounted as a realistic plan, but prosecuted and marketed as another ‘thwarted attempt’
It is worth noting that the great majority of loans are approved or denied automatically, on the basis of a computer-generated scoring (another example of a commercial datamining application). We don’t know what kind of information these applications trawl for – nor even what they might net by mistake.
I too find this scenario unlikely, but I’m not ready to rule it out pending further information.
That is some of the software that’s been developed I’m finding. Risk assessment and analysis is part of an overall consumer or applicant profile that provides the most accurate predictors of behavior.
I’m just trying to decide which ones to link to here. The various profiles can vary even for one individual as the criteria and datasets chosen are customized.
Credit scoring services seem to offer even our ‘webtrends’ or habits and interests as part of a comprehensive profile.
Something new coming in is the ability to mine nonstructured text which I understand to be piles of posts and comments like this one.
Money quote:
As one who recently found a very scary “unauthorized charge” on my credit card bill, this has been much on my mind. (I do not want to be too specific about it, but I’ll say that the transaction did not occur in the US.)
Although I have been freaking out about this for two weeks now, I have been hesitant to post anything about it, because it scared the shit out of me. It occurs to me, however, that one defense I may have is to raise holy hell everywhere I can protesting it.
For any dataminers out there: I did not make this purchase. I did not authorize anyone to use my credit card to make it. I knew nothing about it until I checked my credit card bill.
For those who would advise me to cancel all of my credit cards and conduct all future transactions in cash – would not doing so “look suspicious”? What does it say when completely innocent American citizens are made to fear that their completely innocent, everyday actions may “look suspicious”?
[Of course, the charge was immediately protested and removed from the amount owed – that card cancelled and a new one issued. But – of course – the record remains.]
If I am now “suspicious” – is everyone I have ever emailed or spoken to on the phone also a “connection” to be dataveilled? Check your credit card and phone bills, folks.
I hate to hear that happening to you Janet. It’s a hassle none of us need and also one we all need to fight against. You did the right thing, in my opinion, of protesting the charge and making note that it wasn’t you. That’s all we can do and although it’s probably an asterisk, it’s no more dangerous than the people who charge money to interperate it’s meaning.
This is all technology that can be used for great benefit or, in the wrong hands, cause life changing problems for good, innocent people.
I came onto all of this a long time ago and I’ve adjusted but not in what would be the normal way. I self censor my word selection, for instance, but I’ll never stop speaking out honestly. We just need our legislators to get back to having our interests at heart and make changes to sincerely protect us. Don’t change what you’re doing if you’re doing nothing wrong and I seriously doubt that you’re a credible threat.
😉
Of course I am not a credible threat to anyone or anything except DINO’s and Republicans’ running for office chances of getting re-elected.
But I went to a peace march and blogged about it. I went to Crawford and blogged about it. Re-read the title to your own diary, and consider what soj says in her fp story:
That’s the bottom line.
Absolutely, but when I say it people want to put a tinfoil hat on me
😉
The administration isn’t catching terrorists or preventing attacks with these programs.
There are very few credible threat or at least there were before BushCo started creating more. Still there are far, far fewer than most politicians refer to.
They’re spending untold billions of dollars to eavesdrop, monitor, store data and harass innocent Americans whose sole “crime” is to remain critical of the administration – in a lawful, peaceful way.
Because we are the threat perceived by this administration. It goes further though with the ones in power now because they have such a diverse amount of activities to protest against or reveal.
It looks like the current threat manufactured for manipulation is the elf/alf and environmental, animal rights and associated groups.
The main intent of my diary is for people to realize that the accusation/threat can be built around the individual based on what criteria is used from all data that is retained as routine.
OK, I may need to be more specific, after all. First, go read this.
One of my roommates at the time was a VVAW member, and John Kniffin visited our house several times, as did other VVAW members. During the time before the trial, I twice opened my front door to find a pair of FBI agents on my porch. Note from your reading above, that the entire incident for which they were indicted was the result of actions by an FBI plant in the VVAW.
The charge in question on my credit card was not for a lamp ordered from Belgium or some such. It was to an airline in a middle eastern country. I have had my credit card stolen out of my purse twice. Both times there was a little flurry of charges in the hours after the theft in stores around town. Ordinary crooks know how it works – the card will be cancelled as soon as the theft is discovered. But this time . . . my card was not physically stolen, and this was the only unauthorized charge. It smells very fishy.
You may think that I need to go to the store and purchase more tin foil. But I’ve been a little too close to this kind of thing before.
“If you’ve done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear” seems naive to me. Or that they will restrict themselves to elf/alf types. That may be where it starts, but it will probably not be where it ends. I know that innocent people who disagree with government policies can be set up. It’s happened before. Here, in America. In my lifetime.
I believe that sometimes they pick the groups for different reasons, sometimes the individuals are chosen from results of datamining and other times they are covering up activities from long ago. This comment speculation applies to the BushCo crew in charge right now.
There are several well documented instances of how the trail is created in advance, sadly, such as the apparently insignificant minor purchases that could identify a location or build an identifiable trail to be used later. This is what catches my attention in so many other cases that share the similarity.
Without making it public here, do you have all of those theft reports/incidents documented and other proof that you didn’t make those purchases?
Hey, does this tie in to the fiasco of what happened to Kerry’s campaign and claims of some 1971 meeting a list? 2 more names came up from that and are similar.
Do you remember this lawsuit Lemmer brought for libel in 82 or so and lost? Really interesting insight into that person.
The same people today are so often the same ones from 30 years ago, like they’re settling nonexistent scores-grudges, or keeping peaceful people quiet over their own paranoia.
One case after another of the post 9/11 prosecutions has vhardly any credible evidence of terr threat but instead connections that go back to previous GOP admins.
link
Janet, I know how awful this feels and how concerned it has made you. But this is nothing new. It hasn’t stopped since the Nixon years (and probably was going on before that as well) The FBI, CIA, NSA and all the known and unknown (yes, we have those too) Intel agencies have run their own show since J Edgar Hoover. . .meaning, they justify anything they want to do. If they don’t get caught, if no one leaks or whistle blows, they never miss a beat. BUT. . .it has never stopped! There has never been a time that these agencies haven’t been syping on Americans and compiling lists.
I have no doubt that the FBI has had me on file since 1956 when they came to ask me about my brother and his friends. But I refuse to let that knowledge alter my life and interfere with my enjoyment of life. True, we haven’t had any one as totally insane and insidious in office as we currently do, but if we live in fear of them, then they have accomplished exactly what they wanted to accomplish.
Yes, shirl, I know. See the new comment I just posted. And I am trying not to let this get to me or shut me up.
But, as bad as things were back in the late 60’s – early 70’s, I fear that this time it may be worse. The current technology is so much more powerful than what they had available then. And the brainwashing of ordinary citizens who are being asked to condone this is so much more advanced.
I mean, I am the one who is constantly saying, we need to get out and work for good progressive candidates. Volunteering for campaigns, writing elected officials. Buying a Democracy Bond to support Dean’s 50-state strategy. Simple actions of a concerned and involved citizen in a democracy. Are these types of actions now being targeted?
But of course, as last time, I also support veterans. That may be unacceptable.
I will be very interested to find our whether I will be able to meet you in March. That was my first thought when I saw my bill . . .
Yeah, that changes things considerably. Don’t freak out yet but this does deserve more attention.
Believe me, I am not one to ever accuse someone of tinfoil behavior. I only make that reference for people to have a landmark as to something they can relate to.
I need to have that other comment in front of me to answer so I’ll do that back up above, or over or wherever it is.
Did you see this link already?
Yes, I had seen that before. Made me cry. But I don’t know who wrote it – do you? The only one of the Gainesville 8 who I remember (though I think I met others) is John, and he died a few years ago.
And yes, beginning with the SBV nonsense, I have been very depressed to see the same characters pop up again now. I’m doing what I can to get more (real) Democrats elected next November. The bad news – to me – is that even if we are successful, the damage now being done will not be healed for a long time. As the SBV demonstrated, the wounds are life-long. I really feel that they have serious emotional problems regarding their service in VN that drives them to trash other VN vets like Kerry (and McCain, and Cleland, and now Murtha.) And that is only a tiny part of “the damage now being done” of course. And of course, more of the “same characters” from the Nixon years are now at the highest levels of government. With the philosophy that the tragedy of those years is that the consolidation of power in the Presidency got derailed for a while. See Alito.
I don’t think that I am unrealistic in working through the electoral process – it is not a panacea by any means. I do it because even if the results are small in the realm of damage repair, the damage is so great that we should be doing what we can – even if it’s just as a lowly volunteer in a congressional race or showing up for a candidate endorsement forum for my local Democrats group.
On my more optimistic days, I think of the Church Commission and Texas’ Dirty Thirty and others. I saw Bob Gammage speak a couple of weeks ago. He was a member of the Dirty Thirty and is now running for Governor. (He was a state rep, a state senator, a US Congressman, and a TX Supreme Court Judge in the meantime.) He made the point that the Dirty Thirty took political risks – and paid a price – but they did get Texas politics considerably less corrupt for a while. It’s corrupt again. We need to clean it up again. His point was that we have to keep coming back and doing the clean up again and again, but the improvements are real. Even if they are not permanent, we benefit from having those times of relative honesty and effectively serving the people. Never all fixed or as good as we want it, but better – and better is worth something.
And the reforms that came out of the Church Commission also. FISA for example. As shirl says, it never completely stopped – the violations of our freedoms. But for a while it was no where near as bad as it was in those times – when FBI agents were knocking at my door. And that is worth something to me.
Almost all the young men of my generation came of age with the first thing they had to confront was: Do I submit to the draft and take the risk that I will have to kill – or be killed – before my 21st birthday? Or do I go to prison? Or do I exile myself from my home and friends and family – possibly forever? Over 50,000 of these young men were killed. How many more were maimed physically or spiritually? Since Nixon resigned and the VN war (finally) ended, an entire generation grew up without having to face this choice. And that is Worth It, for their sakes. Now we have to worry about another generation. Which will it be for them? As it was with my generation, or as it was with the generation after?
Which is why I’m trying not to let this incident shut me up or cause me to quit trying to work on campaigns or to support veterans. But it has me deeply worried. Our country was headed down a very dark road during the Nixon years and we were able – just barely – to grab the wheel of the car before we went off the cliff. There are no guarantees that we’ll be able to do it this time.
I posted my story here because – with the exception of Gooserock, who seems to “get it,” most of the folks on the blogs seem to me to not realize how close to the cliff we already are.
I certainly appreciate everything you’re going through and how close to the edge we all are. That’s where my frustration shows in feeling let down by the dem party. It’s probably a good time to say again that I don’t think both parties are equal and that the democrats have just gotten sidetracked into complicity for the past however long.
One point I try to stress that gets lost is that the same ones in power now as before Bush family, Cheney, Rumsfeld… are not representative of either party. Their influence is more similar to an org crime network based on the facade of national interests. This is what the dems need to break down and break apart permanently. It disseminates as patriotism…Ollie North laying a tear-jerker story on Fox News while the actual illicit activity is long forgotten. We are suffering their plans now because they were allowed to slip into the private sector last time.
The similarities I saw are the same manipulations by think tank (r/w) funded flunkies and propaganda press outlets actually brainwashing the public. The same ones before, or barely seperated from the same, came back to hurt Kerry for criminal political gain and that also allowed them to hurt their veteran brothers in the process. I can’t see the SBV as intense patriots but as manipulators.
The intel agencies have been fighting these guys since they first came around and the Bush/Cheney crew has pretty well destroyed that service. How did the good people in those agencies allow that to happen? I don’t think this story is more than half over yet and if what I wrote earlier in this comment is true, then everything is moving as it should. Trouble is, there’s no way to know and waiting for the outcome isn’t an option. I’m not suggesting anything radical of course, just keeping on with what we’re doing.
Want a coincidence?
The timing of the report indicating criminal spying and computer file theft by rep aides of dem judicial committee members and the attacks on Kerry are parallel to the Watergate revelation and the setting up of the Gainesville 8. There are some name coincidences too along with funders of propaganda publications.
It’s almost genius that the pattern of deceptive schemes are so bizarre that normal people automatically call them conspiracy theory when it’s mentioned.
It’s as though the more brazen they are the better defense they receive when the truth would be so crazy it couldn’t be believed to be true, right?
Well, when a tactic works, why not keep using it?
I’m thinking of when the newly elected President of Iran back in the early 50’s (can never spell his name and too lazy to Google right now) seemed to be considering nationalizing their oil industry. BP had a problem with that. So Kermit Roosevelt goes to Iran and in just three weeks manages to create faux “riots in the streets” that led to the deposing of the elected president and the installation of the Shah – because the “threat to public order” made it necessary.
Sound familiar?
If it turns out that there are actually 2 opposite factions that have run under the public currents plus rogue groups along the way, can we hope to ever be able to change any of that? An awful lot of stuff happened back in March 2004 around Kerry that goes back to that group and 1971-72
The cabal of Bush41-Cheney-Rummy has a long history of intel/decpetion/covert-regime-change and a coincidental connection to opponents caught in compromising positions created by the cabal and then triggered by the same control,
Hope lies in the right hand link of my sig line, and not very likely solely through party politics.
A friend of mine recently supplied me with an answer to the charge of, “Oh you’re a conspiracy theorist”.
Now my reply will be, “No, actually you must be a coincidence theorist.”
Hey, that’s a coincidence. I like that concept too.
😀 I found the old American Century a long time ago and it’s helped shape the way I think.
Please count me in as one who “gets it.” And feel free to use my email address at any time if there’s something happening that does not fit to blogging.
Thanks NDD. I’ve bookmarked the AEI site. Much to read there, and much of it distressing. I have to approach that in small doses.
Niewert’s essay on the subject greatly influenced my thinking on this, too. I read it in installments as he was writing it. I just reread the last two paragraphs as I was getting the link. Have to cling to that. . . .
Just an additional reminder. We have a global economy with global interests and all of this is not limited to the US. It’s also imprtant to remember that foreign surveillance means US if done by another country and then shared with US govt.
Great diary. And I wonder how many survelience programs we don’t know about?
The premiere event in the field…
May 2-5, DC http://cfp.org
Janet,
It didn’t take long for a memory refresher and to see some obvious similarities in several situations. These are previous recent ‘outrages’ that your experience gives a better insight to. This is something that crosses several topics that some here have been on top of and a public discussion would benefit from several diarists input.
Part of what I’ve been doing the past 4-5 years is to talk about these situations on boards with the speculation that all of these were monitored, surveilled, datamined or whatever. It’s made me a lightning rod at times but I figured back then that the only way to battle the tapping was to speak out, letting them know that we knew what they were doing.
I’ve never done it when I had knowledge of a community member’s chance of being close enough to prefer it not discussed publicly. I wouldn’t discuss something like that, even if you’re experience is never mentioned, without some nod of approval from you that you don’t mind the subject being discussed. It’s a matter of respect for you…:)
Let me know which way to go with this because the red flags will probably pop up,…somewhere. It’s really no worse than has been discussed thousands of times already but the proximity might draw more attention here, maybe.
For the record, I am not suicidal and would never attempt it.
Unclear on the question. Are you asking how I feel about your posting another diary on the topic, with the goal of getting more discussion?
I’m not sure, at the moment. On the one hand, I decided this morning to bring up my experience on this blog – so it’s out there already. On the other, not many people seem to have read it or commented on it. Another that gets more attention may draw more attention to me.
Or do you mean on one of your other discussion groups? That it might lead someone here who has less than honorable intent to check this place out?
I’m a little frustrated that so many, even when they are ranting and raving full tilt, seem to not realize the seriousness and the reality of what is happening. None of us doubt the horror of the current war, I think, but on the domestic side, I sense that the prevailing attitude is that bad things may happen here . . . to someone . . . in the future. If we don’t do . . . something.
That routine checking over my credit card bill when I opened it became a moment of . . . me . . . now. Maybe. Who knows. Maybe it was just garden variety credit card theft. But it sure as hell sent a chill down my spine.
And as you say, this is just one thing. I have heard some other similarly disturbing stories lately. Which makes it even more scary, less likely that it was just a meaningless blip.
I guess the answer is, I don’t know. Let me sleep on it.
Just to clarify, I meant a broad discussion of the subject here in this diary or one that involved more people from here. It wouldn’t center on anyone here but the names brought in would be many of the same names from then and might close.
No rush or decision needed. Let me know if there’s ever anything I can do to help.
Thanks–appears this may be of some use to me…so many things to write…How did I miss this one?
I had it hidden for a while is probably how you missed it.
😉
Actually, I just recommended it. 😉
Hey, thanks.
Any particular part of it you want to know more about? I’m in the process of ‘digging up’ some more specific links directed at various parts of it.
Actually yes. Don’t know if you’ve read any of my diaries re: Medicare D, but I have been xposting them on dkos. Anyway, the second to the last comment inthis is what got me wondering…(And I really don’t know much about the subject.) What do you think?
You’ve done excellent work on the Medicare changes to help people out.
The data aggregators gather up and organize different databases available and the offer the information back out for sale in a variety of ways. In view of the corporate friendly Medicare/drugco legislation, it’s easy to accept that this datamining will benefit business and not people.
A ‘not for profit’ org can benefit in other ways, as you know, so it looks good but can still be exploiting the public. The frustration in this subject is that this technology should be helping us but almost efery time it gets turned around to screw us instead.
I’ll get the specific information that I can on these particular NFP orgs and what contracts might already be in place for that data.
Thanks rumi for the explanation re: datamining, as you really clarified a few things for me. I knew very little about datamining until I read this diary. Your answer helped me even more. And thanks also for getting the info re: the NFP’s–I would not even know where to look for all of that.
Know something? I started writing re: Medicare D, because of the effects of it on people with disabilites (like chocolate ink and me). Then I read more and more about how others are being hit by this mess and started finding out more and more…I never thought that I would get as involved in Medicare D as I have. I am glad that my writing is helping people out, as that was my intent, and thank you for recognizing that.
I really hope that everyone’s work here will get the attention of the uninformed in this country so people will wake up and see what is going on. Might take awhile, but I do believe that it will happen–this nonsense can’t go on forever.
(Years ago, I worked for a “NFP”, so I know exactly what you were referring to in your description.)
Thanks again, rumi.
I’ve been pissed off about that Medicare Bill since before DeLay was armtwisting. There is no need for people to endure that hassle or loss of vital service.
Understanding datamining is looking at it like a trip to Lowes or Home depot. A wide variety of tools and individual pieces are categorized and stored in different ways. The elements all overlap categories of use and the right tools choose the items for assembly and put them together in a product to market or sell.
I don’t have the specific link yet but look at the time when the original contract for data management expires and it will be either rebid or opened to other entities. HILLC seems to have the initial contract to ‘aggregate’ all of the data coming from participants in all categories. Once they have it, they own it and have control. This is important because they can then decide how it’s used. I’ll post the links when I find the ones that explain it best.
The difficulty here is that the summary of these connections doesn’t exist in an easy explanation on one page.
Thanks–the retail example that you used explained datamining even more, as I have worked retail in the past. Noticed when I looked at one of the links (can’t remember which one), part of the site was not up yet/under construction.
The difficulty here is that the summary of these connections doesn’t exist in an easy explanation on one page.
Thanks for your advice re: contracts. And thanks again for searching for the links. I know this is something really in-depth that will take awhile.
There are only 19 comments, and your take on the 2nd to last would be a help… (not the diary itself)
It looks like this is the type of technology that can handle all of the blogs entries, comments and archives in many ways.
This closes the circle back to other diaries here and great work of soj and others.
We should have some means of collaborative diaries. What I lack in organizational skills I make up for in creativity and conceptual thinking. That doesn’t make my organizational skills suck less, though.
The way I see it, if these capabilities were so sensitive to national security, it wouldn’t be allowed to be marketed so blatantly. These technologies are crucial to future security but they’re also vulnerable to misuse and it appears that profits are a top priority. That looks suspicious.
With so many new players in the same game, an interesting new problem might arise. This press release mentions the award of a patent for … for a concept-
based method and system that creatively analyzes a formerly untapped resource:
unstructured information.. When this is disputed, which it likely will be as most valuable patents are, how will that affect the integrity of threat assessments compiled by this company and competitors?
As for competition in the drive for profits, will these companies bend the conceptual thinking to show more threat and a need for more services? Could the program be manipulated to produce a flase threat for political leverage or opponent/dissent prosecution?