I know there is a political crisis. I have an accurate barometer. The needle on the barometer is driven by sensors attached to the height of the dishes in my sink, and the clothes in the hamper. I’m seriously behind on the housework folks. I’ve been riveted to the computer for like 48 hours. One shower. A few hours sleep. A peace meeting. But that’s it. The rest is watching the corpse of the Democratic Party rot before my eyes.
For me, the crisis started with the announcement that Democratic Congressional candidate Jim Marcinkowski would appear and answer questions at the Booman Tribune. I live in his district. I have a passing familiarity with politics. I wanted to be here to ask him some questions.
I did a little background research so I could be well informed. And it turns out that my Democratic front runner for the Congressional seat, to run against a virulent wing-nut (Rogers, MI-08), has been a life long Republican. He was a CIA agent in Nicaragua in the 1980s, when the U.S. was found responsible for war crimes against the country of Nicaragua.
I was more than a little freaked out. All I knew about the race before hand was that I had heard a rumor that there was a progressive professor that had considered running, that my past Democratic candidate, who was a good progressive man had decided not to run, and that Marcinkowski seemed to be the candidate “supported by the party.” My knowledge base for these things is fleeting and ephemeral. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that any of my so-called facts in this paragpraph are rumor or even wrong. But that is what I knew coming in to the Booman Tribune appearance by Marcinkowski.
His answers to my questions bore out my suspicions. I could be wrong. But in my opinion he is a Reagan Republican who has cause not to like the current administration that outed his CIA friend. He should be running in the Republican primary. I would cross over and support him in his effort to oust Rogers. But he is not a candidate I could support. In any way. The best he could do is promise me that he is becoming, or has become, a moderate Democrat. But he couldn’t prove it to me by statements alone. So I can’t support him in any way.
So my angst about being a supporter of the Democratic Party, in any way, was stoked.
Late last night and this morning, I read about what has happened to Paul Hackett in Ohio. It is a travesty. There is a mini-revolution going on over a dKos. Because Kos has come out and altered history and said Hackett jumped into the race and messed things up and could never win. Basically, “Crashing the Gate” Markos has become a part of some Democratic Party machine that I don’t understand, but that I know exists because of the shadow it is casting over my life. [I’m not cross-posting this as Kos bashing, BooMan, because I just am not taking the time. Delete this if you want.]
My point is this. The Democratic Party is busted. Fucking corrupt. I don’t need to be inside to smell the rot. I hate organizations. I’m anti-social. Fuck. I’m an asshole. Okay. I accept it. I cannot lead people. But I can clearly see that this thing that some progressives have looked to is fucking completely broken. I’m done with it. I know many of you are, too. I will never give them another dime. I will never give them another hour. I will never give them another vote, unless I am absolutely convinced, by some individual candidate that he will be a true progressive. Call it idealistic. Call it misguided. Call it circular firing squad. Call it whatever the hell you want. That is just my opinion that I intend to act on personally.
Yeah. So what?
So this. Show of fucking hands. Roll call vote. How many people here say we need to be building a progressive party to replace the Democratic party? Conversely, how many here support staying with the Democrats as the only hope (I avoid my invective characterization)? One or the other. I would like to get a sense of where the site is at, so I’d like to hear from every person whose eyes have made it to this point on the screen. Why? Because I want to know if continued discussion of this issue is warranted or if I should STFU. I’m taking a mandatory break from this fucking computer.
Where’s Nicaragua? …never heard of it. I’m abstaining from all political activity now and in the future except for nonthreatening conversation from time to time. My voice has gone unheard and I can live with that.
Fwiw BostonJoe I feel close enough to the way that you feel that our feelings might as well be long-lost twins. I am fed the fuck up. And the overwhelming majority of my political thinking these days is about alternatives. I’ll let you know if I stumble across any brilliant, marketable gems in this nearly airless coal mine cave-in we’ve all suddenly found ourselves within. Meanwhile, we can all play some hackeysack with this here dead canary.
I think it’s possible to somehow, eventually, take control of the Dem. party. The question would be is it possible to do it soon enough to salvage anything of our country. I really think we need a progressive movement outside and inside, because if we all pour our power and time into a corrupt system with no force outside to push for change we won’t get anywhere. So, yes and no? Support the few progressives on the Dem side while building a true progressive party-reform party? And make voting reform a key issue as without it there is no way out of this, I keep thinking that as it stands there have already been deals made to hand off power to someone acceptable to the ruling clique and let us think we’ve ‘won’ but I don’t see hope of any real change without an outside organization.
Support the few progressives on the Dem side while building a true progressive party-reform party?
You can’t really do this. I mean, individuals could, but the people building the new party would not be able to. Otherwise they’d be undermining their own efforts.
When you join the Democratic Party as a committee person, etc., you sign a paper saying that you will not oppose any Democratic candidate in a general election. Basically that means you can support whoever you want in a primary, or sit it out. And in the general election, you can either support the Democratic nominee or sit it out, but you cannot support a Republican or third-party or independent opponent, or write hit pieces on the Democrat and publish them online, etc. If you do this stuff, you will get kicked off the committee or whatever org you are part of.
Any political party really would have to operate this way if it wants to be strong as an institution, and not just a random group of people that mills about in vaguely similar directions.
Thanks for the clarification. I was thinking from an independent (registered as such) viewpoint and from the standpoint of Working Families Party strategy.
http://www.workingfamiliesparty.org/
Thanks for the link… this is really a very interesting approach.
Here all this time in my naivete I thought the Working Families Party was an offshoot of the Conservative Party and that it was mostly local to my district, District 1 in Suffolk.
Here in the Town of Southold our just replaced town Supervisor ran as a democrat and beat an incumbent republican super in an upset. At the time I thought it was a huge shift for the democrats in a majority republican town. Turns out he was more a Marcinkowski than a democrat. His mostly good record as Sup. aside, it was a good lesson for me in the way candidates jump from party to party based less on ideology than on their chances to win.
On your point about change from within and from without, I’m not sure that will accomplish much on the national level. I’m of the mind instinctually that the democrats need to feel some real pain by way of a mass defection by progressives from the party with all the inherant risks that go along with that.
On a personal level I was pleased to see you are a fellow NY’r…I think
Which is a yes? I hadn’t heard much of working families myself, just started looking into them and was intrigued by the strategy.
Meant well but bumbled my words Vida ;o)
Yes I’m pleased you’re a fellow NY’r
Thought for a minute you were also from MI, as you mentioned Southfield!
Southold….
but I do have some buds there like oh….Streetkid, BostonJoe and Ejmw ;o)
Been there three times and btw, what’s up with the funky chili? lol
what’s up with the funky chili?
I stay away from it–I’m a vegetarian–so I dunno…
Hey there supersoling,
I’m over in western Suffolk, Northport. Good to see a person from the ‘hood so to speak here at Booman.
I always get a kick out of meeting Long Islanders and other New Yorkers Ed.
Might be cool one day to do a diary and see how many of us are here. Maybe even have a meetup.
We’d sure have plenty to talk about with Island politics. Though the democrats seem to be cleaning out some of the entrenched republian machine lately. That’s always a good thing.
Take care
Vida, I too am an Ind. I just told over onthe front page what I did today and questioned what needs to be done. Actually, I called Reid and Shuers office in DC and informed them that they will loose a very big voting block if they do not straighten themselves up and start to do the right thing for all of us not just the rich and powerful.
Shumers office shooed me off like a pesty fly. Reids office actually listened to me, but I feel it landed on deft ears.
As a voting block, we must all together do this to them to get the point across. I hate thretening but it is what they do so when we talk to them we must talk the language they know how to listen in. When will we learn to fight fire with fire? I think the time has come for us all to come forth and defend our beliefs. After all, it is us the ppl that they are in DC for! They tend to forget this, once there. It will take a good old hard reminding for them to straighten up, I do believe.
I hear all the despiration and betrayal in all the voices here. This has to be taken seriously for the electorate to get behind a canditate to run and really feel supported…just false/fancy kind of support. We have to start walking the walk like we are talking if we really want to make a difference.
I agree but I’m not sure just how we can do so effectively. Also, to be honest there is the fact that I’m a coward. I have this last shred of hope that Dems. might actually come through for us, all evidence to the contrary. And so I have a hard time bracing myself to take a ‘leap of faith’. I think that shred of hope is what they are counting on to keep people in line.
Here inlies the problem, Vida. We are not cowards! We do have to pick u p the fighting rhetoric. We do have to make our voices heard. NOt just here but where it really makes a difference. As a group, we have that right and our Constitution declares that much. It is a government of the ppl by the ppl and for the ppl. Now where does it say the rich, the corps., the military/industrial complex? NO matter what our color is or or religion is or what our creed is, this is our government! It is our tax dollars that they are spending on that which we should have a say in. We are not getting heard! It is plain and simple..Now how do we get heard? There are many ways to do this. I like getting onthe phone and writting emails and snail mail. I do vote but I up intil last year voted my heart and for whom I felt would do the job and would support me. I do what others do for the most part. This is unusal times for us all. We have to change the way we think about politics. Can we all do this? I dont know…all I know is I am trying hard. Hugs….keep the faith…we can together do this, I just know we can!
Thanks! Sometimes I just need a little nudge…hugs back! I think knowing that there are many who want the same things helps, knowing that we are not alone, even though the media tries to make it seem that we far from t he mainstream.
I think we can do this, if we pull together and keep heart.
what we have to do is take over the Democratic Party for ourselves, the Progressive Grassroots. What Howard Dean is doing with the Democracy Bonds is a great start. The party answers to the people who fund it. This is an uphill battle and we might lose. But it is worth fighting. I think it’s our best chance to build the world we want.
I don’t think it is a fair dichotomy though, to say “New Party” or “Dem Party As It Is.” I’m saying “New Dem Party.”
Nothing’s changed for me, I still vote for the candidate best suited to represent me in Congress. They can call themselves gremlins for all I care, as long as they will do the job I hired them for. The reverse is also true: I can fire them if they don’t do a good job.
Don’t forget that an election is a huge job interview where the people select the applicants.
I noticed that Jim answered a few more questions: I was wondering if this was a progressive blog or a stage for FAKE DEMOCRATS. “Look, I’m a Democrat even though I’m a Republican”.
Liberals aren’t stupid.
The thread has me so angry I’m leaving today. I can’t believe this bullshit. They lie to us on the news and now they lie to us via our computers.
Fuck it all. I have no faith in Democracy. It’s time to just protest till they arrest us all. Stay safe, folks – these are dangerous and dark times and… no one gives a steaming pile of shit.
My last reply to Swarmy needs a Guard Blog Jim
Women Haters (none / 0)
then why don’t YOU and YOUR daughter be INVOLVED with each other – privately… and you and the RED REGIME keep your bibles and politics out of my uterus.
I HATE HATE HATE that some politician thinks they have some moral ground to DICKtate (dictate) to women just WHEN and WHERE and HOW we can have sex and then what we can do afterwards.
How dare you deny any human the right to medical care and medical decisions because you have issues with your own child.
TYPICAL Republican response… you can’t control your own urges, your own family, your own life – so you have to stick your heads into everyone elses.
Women and YES other’s daughters will DIE because of men like you.
How about telling your SONS to quit raping women.
How about teaching your SONS that no means no.
How about reminding yourself that your morals are none of my business and my vagina is none of yours.
I will die if were to become pregnant. That’s between me and my doctor. Not even my spouse. And most definitely not YOU.
I left out a few words. Emotional typing.
I’m leaving the Democrats today.
I’m not a spineless back pf puke like the DNC so I’ll continue to fight and stand up. Unlike the D’s – who get an “F”.
Me, too, Janet. Fed the fuck up.
Some women have figured out that the Republicans don’t give a damn about us and say so. No conversation, no kiss, bad sex, pass you around, wear you out, you’re on your own, no abortion, no medical care, no child support. I’ve finally gotten it that the Democrats say they love and respect us, give us a perfunctory kiss, talk our ears off without ever listening, date rape us, give us VD, don’t want to know we’re pregnant, and then ask when they can see us again. Occasionally they look puzzled and ask, “Honey, are you mad about something ?” but they attribute the answer to PMS.
The Democratic Party is on notice: YOU’RE NOT MY BOYFRIEND ANY MORE.
Damn, there is no lesser of two evils when you put it like that.
You rock and roll! Again I’m going to use more of your words when I put that presentation together regarding the rape and abuse of our female troops.
BTW, DJ, on that topic, I got a letter from my congressman. All he addressed to me was the GI Bill and the improvements in it…can you go figure on that one…way off topic he was..like I said they do not care one way or the other. Just as long as they have their $$$$$ coming in for them….
If you asked him direct questions, or even if you didn’t, and I don’t know what other things you asked about, but you can read the responses from the one that was here the other night, or the wife of the other one.
None of them are going to say, I oppose invading Iran. I oppose the torture camps, all the victims must be released, and I will work for that, I am against the invasions of Iran and Afghanistan and they must stop, I am in favor of universal health care, I believe a woman’s body is her own, I believe we should enforce equal protection under the law in every case, including marriage, without regard to race, gender, etc.
Nor should they. For one thing, it is unlikely that they would have gotten so far as to be calling themselves candidates if they held any such views. And stating such a thing anywhere would be the end of that candidacy and the end ot their political career.
On the other hand, they can’t be too definite about saying the opposite, either, in case word comes down that there has been a policy change on this or that. Not likely, but a politician can’t take any chances.
The answer must make the average person feel important, and listened to, and believe that the politician agrees with them, even if he can only agree secretly until he is elected and then of course his feet can be held to the fire, Even though he never stated an actual position. He needs your support, and the best way you can support him is by sending him money and not asking direct questions like that.
I know. I’ve found that sometimes when you CC: to a news agency or paper (even if you don’t actually send it to them) sometimes the Polly will read it.
Big subject lines: TROOPS RAPE WOMEN CALL COMRADES GOVT ISSUED PUSSY
perhaps??
Thanks for writing though and don’t give up 🙂
Actually, I sent the entire article. It would be very difficult to see what I was refering to.
that’s what gives him the right in his mind to decide for us “wimmim”. (due to a post from Jim in his diary)
I’m thinking of diarizing… I am so freaking ANGRY.. shaking anger at this Republemcrat Jim M.
Reproblemcrat??
Another Hero Sydrome – he asctually said he helped with rape clinics/domestic violence clinics “before they were fashionable” EXCUSE me I din’t know they were every fucking trendy. And I didn’t think that because he was a Knight in Shining Armor that gave him the right to decide over the bodies and medical decisions of women.
Raped by a man and Jimbo is there to help you… yet he as a man can rape your human rights???
Fuck this “I’m a Democrat” shit.
And and Boston Joe! He doesn’t want your nor my support. Oh gee, I’m crushed.
It’s makes the hand-counting easier. 😉
Yeah, it’s been a kind of one-two punch in the gut, hasn’t it? Not a big slap in the face like rolling over on Alito or voting for the bankruptcy bill, this is hitting below the belt. I’ve seen all the good advice from the loyalists and the realists about the Dem party being the only chance we’ve got and how we should work from inside to change it. We don’t want progressives to splinter off and be spoilers in ’08, do we? Yada, yada.
But, you know, the other option is staying home because I’m not going to vote for Repub-lite. I’m not buying the-lesser-of-two-evils routine this time around. Someone having a (D) behind their name doesn’t mean shit anymore. It’s no guarantee of anything.
I hope Hackett runs as an Independent and wins. I’ll send him money because I don’t think it’s just us that are fed with politicians who don’t stand for anything but serving the ruling class. I feel like there may be a lot of people who have been voting Republican and not liking it either. The Dems don’t stand up for their principles and the Repubs have flat-out forgotten theirs! It’s time for a big change or it’s too late anyway. So why not try for a coalition of independents?
Present and accounted for. I declined to donate again last night, telling the Dems that after Salazar’s inaction on ALito we wished to be taken off their lists.
So, what can I contribute to help form the new party? I bring only a question:
What is the best that America could be?
I want us to start looking upwards again, and dreaming about the place we could make- peaceful, educated, respectful of all skills and contributions, where each human is encouraged to develop to their highest potential.
Progressive party. I’ll contribute. Leave the rotting corpse to whoever wants it.
ok so here is my question
you are supporting murtha to the point of mentioning him in your sig line
and you want to support a third party
a progressive party
do you think murtha is progressive?
he is not in my opinion…he is only now and a little late adopting a far left progressive view of getting out of iraq….but he was for going in…he is not pro choice, pro gay, or pro anything else progressive as far as i can tell.
im perplexed in general at the kudos murtha gets from progressives….just because of that one stand he is taking.
im nto saying not to support murtha…im saying that in the same breath of support, people should hold him accountable for his other stands.
bottom line? people get rewarded just for telling the truth. People are so thirsty for unvarnished truth. Why do you think people flocked to Dean? It wasn’t his ‘A’ rating from the NRA, his good looks, his oration skills, or his budget hawk credentials. It was that he was the only one telling the truth.
Murtha and Hackett have both become icons because they told the truth.
Message to consultants: calling Bush a liar, a thief, and a scoundrel is good for your client.
John Murtha speaks for me because he has the guts to tell the truth about the war in Iraq. His resolution shows more courage than I’ve seen from anyone else, including Wesley Clark, who made me believe there is hope. (Now Clark, like all the other pols, wants to wait until after the midterm elections to withdraw. I know because I asked him in on online chat.) Blood for votes is wrong!
Booman is right, of course. The truth appeals to me — and lots of other people. If we can deal in truth, we can become a democracy again. What that means to me is a free and open exchange of ideas among informed citizens, with the majority making the final decision. We can agree to disagree, compromise, and make decisions based on what’s good for Americans. I’m talking about rational discourse — specifically not PR, lies, and people screaming over each other.
I’ll hold my own congress critters responsible for all their positions. I’m real old-fashioned and tell them what I think! However, I don’t expect them to always agree with me or lose my vote. I don’t feel that same obligation to Murtha, but I’ve asked my House member to support him. (His resolution has 97 co-sponsors now, none of them mine.)
But the “two-party system” is dead. It has been bought out by big corporations. I see no hope of the Democrats ever standing for average Americans again. They apparently value “political experience” over truth, at least based on their dumping Hackett. I think that’s BS.
It disgusts me that I voted for John Kerry. My personal unsubstantiated theory #573 (that’s a joke) is that Kerry probably didn’t make a fuss about the stolen election because of his loyalty to Skull and Bones (that wasn’t a joke). I can’t imagine any other reason, and he hasn’t given a satisfactory explanation.
Progressive candidates, I think, would care about the well-being of “regular” Americans like myself and those less well-off financially than me. Specifically, they wouldn’t be the elitist, rich white men who run both of the parties right now. They’d be more interested in what’s good for Americans and America than the profits of corporations who feed them power. I wouldn’t agree with every one every time, but at least I’d have a choice.
Sorry if this is jumbled. It was 70 here today, and I just got back from climbing a small mountain 😉
a young girl wrote a plaintive letter to “Dear Abby”. She told the story how in class she said she wanted to be President of the United States when she grew up, and everyone laughed at her, including her teacher.
The letter drew responses from all over, including one from a Senator from Massachusetts named John Kerry. All of them told her to hold on to that dream, work hard, get involved as she got older.
Well, were I to meet that young girl, I would have to say: “Ain’t gonna happen, sister.”
Yeah, you can make a difference…but only if you’re the right color (and for President, right gender), have the right name, make the right connections…but for the rest of us, we just hand over our money and STFU. (Okay, I probably would use something other than STFU with her.)
The motto in my sig has never been more applicable than today. I will donate to individual candidates that I feel represent my interests and those of people like me, but for the Powers-That-Be, the Grand Machine of the Business As Usual crowd, not one dollar more…
This is how I feel as well. The Alito fiasco was the last straw for me. For years, the various democratic party machines have been ignoring the left and promoting and funding people like Casey, Lieberman, Salazar, ad nauseum. I will not send them one more dollar until they stop supporting DINOs and stop forcing alternatives out of the primaries. I see nothing wrong with supporting a couple of D candidates and let the best “man” win in the primary. We should have a choice.
If I was in PA, I would not vote for Casey. Being in CA, I will not vote for DiFi. While I have voted Democratic for 22 years, there are times when I just cannot. The last time I could not support a Democratic candidate was for California Govenor. Grey Davis was horrendous and I simply could not vote for him. I did hold my breath and voted against the recall, but Davis dug his own grave by consistently favoring corporate interests, by not responding to the energy crisis and ignoring Progressive voters. Big mistake in CA.
At any rate, I will support individual candidates, but I will not support the Democratic party until they change their ways.
While I love the idea of another party, I think a massive revolt from Progressives will help convince the D-Party to shape up.
vote in support of the filibuster saved my vote for her, I must admit…though that’s subject to change without notice before November.
Wish Cindy Sheehan had run against her, just so she’d have to talk about her stand on the Iraq invasion…
By the time DiFi voted in the Alito scandal, she knew the filibuster was going to fail. What did her in for me ultimately was her vote for the bankruptcy bill. She used to be Progressive, but now she is very conservative. In the past 5 years, she has routinely voted against Democratic interests. While I appreciate her vote on Alito, it was, for me, too little, too late. Unfortunately, she is one of those completely entrenched Dems that no one will challenge.
I disagree with the advice the girl got: “work hard, get involved as she got older.”
as she got older??? By then she’s a apathetic body bag lemming.
My daughter is more involved than most adults I know. She asks questions, she thinks for herself and she fights for others.
From what’s on the dinner table to what’s going on in Iraq… being involved, if nothing else, gives them a sense of empowerment. I beieve that will cause a change in the future… our kids won’t put up with the BS we as adults have.
they fucked up!
Solidarity: A Meme Whose Time Has Come.
I completely understand your frustration. But I’m wondering if us bloggers are indicative of the party as a whole, or are we just extremists?
I’m pretty sure I’m an extremist. At least it’s appearing that way with each passing day. Which is why i’ve decided to stfu.
But then again I’m not an American so my vote doesn’t count either.
Nevermind, sorry for butting in.
we are not only extremists but we are completely insignificant.
No you guys are not at all extremists. In the 60’s and 70’s my generation were extremists. It only took one incident for a very loud, and long demonstration to occur. Now there is a whole plate load of grievances, and nothing happens.
I lived in NH. My father a behind the scenes politico in Mass, called and asked me to pick up my sister, at the parking lot at North Station in Boston. He had heard that their were going to be HUGE demonstrations that weekend at Boston University, where my sister was going to school. I got my sister, but she wanted to go and pick up a few things. We got back to her dorm, and yup-there was a demonstration! We found out it was about some students being drafted and they went and destroyed draft their records. My sister and I joined the demonstration-with her carrying my 3 1/2 year old on her shoulders, and me carrying my 1 year old on my shoulders.
When we finally got back to New Hampshire, around 11 PM that night, my husband said my father had called 9 times (no cell phones then). Sure enough, phone rang and there was dear old dad. He was ripped and let my sister and I have it. He very sarcastically explained he had seen us on TV with my kids, and that was not what he had in mind when he said to go get my sister.
Today you are verbal, thanks to the internet, but nowhere near as extreme as my generation, and you are are so much more peaceful!
cultural fit for the US at this time, or if one could gain sufficient influence with they who write the checks to Diebold to actually influence the question of who takes office, just as the political solution window has closed, other windows have opened.
You, more than many others, have convinced me of the futility in hoping for change. The best I can achieve is seeking peace with my government. In order to do this, abstaining from active politics other than nonthreatening conversation, is my best course for the future.
One side of The Party will continue to promise pure unadulterated genocide in the name of national security; the other will promise a kinder, gentler, more environmentally friendly and socially conscious genocide in the name of national security.
Either way, it is imperative to not be on the receiving end of the various bombs and incendiary devices at The Party’s disposal.
I hear the new prison camps will be quite lovely this time of year. Thank goodness for global warming, after all.
as the sort who might kind of enjoy poking around newly-opened windows. 😉
I have been but I’m wary of open windows that are designed to slam shut when I get too curious and stick my neck out.
This balloon has been floated before and I was one of the first to encourage either third party participation or an organized association of goal oriented coalitions. Promoting strength through numbers by focusing reciprocal support on big picture issues and accepting that diversity in specific interests is an asset rather than a liability.
It went nowhere. The window slammed and the general feeling was to just keep supporting the dem party and hope for the best.
Recently, I decided to achieve peace through nonparticipation.
Maybe it was just covered by a thick drape, but it appears that may have been taken down to wrap a rotten corpse in.
Ductape,
When you vote, you can ALWAYS get a paper receipt. Just buy a book of them at Staples or somewhere. That way you do an end run around Diebold and the other criminals.
–raises both hands–
One has the middle finger up in the face of our current political system. Hope you enjoy your break from the computer, BJoe — you have so many better ways to be spending your time!
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: No political party gives a damn about the hard core of voters who can be counted to vote for them no matter what. Unless you are willing to take your vote and walk away, neither the Democrats nor anyone else will care what you think. They don’t have to; your vote is already in the bag.
I’m for at least the credible threat of an actual liberal party. The Ohio fiasco proves that the national party is willing to subvert the role of local representatives to serve the Washington Dem establishment. Casey and Marcinkowski signal their willingess to abandon principle — the very purpose of a political party — for short-term gains. And why not? Your hard-core liberal vote is already in the bag. You’d come to the polls to vote for a Republican whose fresh blue paint isn’t even dry yet.
Some of the leading blogs — and it is by no means only dKos — have obviously been co-opted by the party apparatus and are acting mainly as apologists for the party. Maybe that was their intention from the beginning; maybe it is just the corruption that comes from proximity to power (or the appearance of proximity, anyway). This is perfectly normal; the establishment always tries to co-opt revolutionary fervor if it can. It’s also the make-or-break point in the early life of a revolution.
The deeply flawed meme that winning elections is everything and how they are won is irrelevant — and we know where the bulk of the blame for that goes — has almost completely saturated the bulk of the liberal blogosphere. As intended. I’m not going to point any fingers at any particular blog on this one as they mostly strike me as dupes of the party apparatus, but do you remember Abramoff and his cronies making fun of the Indian tribes and religious rightists they were cynically using to fatten themselves? That’s what the Dem establishment is saying about us behind closed doors now. Their votes are in the bag, so fuck ’em, the crazies.
The other establishment meme that has successfully taken root is that we must not have contested primaries. That this has been so widely accepted is nothing short of amazing, as it is so cynically and transparently pro-status quo that you’d almost have to want more of the same to swallow it. Keep your vote in our bag, they are saying.
My vote is not in the bag, Mr. Reid. The Democratic Party is a means to an end, not an end in itself. If it refuses to serve, it can and will be replaced.
I’m not going to wade in on this here because I’m not sure what I think yet.
But I do think it’s interesting that I just got an email from MoveOn regarding taking on ‘right-wing democrats’ in order to elect progressives, making the Democratic party’s message both more progressive and more consistent (therefore easier to disseminate).
link
I just was going to post that link but thought I would check the thread first. Thanks for posting it here. Ok folks, here’s your chance to tell Moveon to moveon and support only progressive dems and not these rightwing nuts they want us to settle for.
Here I am all set to read a diary I thought I would love because of the title and I’m sorry Boston Joe, but when you’re pointing fingers at the Democratic Party, you’re forgetting you’re part of the problem. Here’s why:
If you want to make changes, you have to be the change.
If you’re not connected enough to the local organization to know more than this, you’re not involved enough to actually make changes to make the Democratic Party better. You’re just another person on the side complaining about the way things are instead of actually doing something to make things better.
It’s easy to write blog posts that bitch and moan about the party.
It’s not easy to attend the meetings, voice your support for the progressive, make phone calls behind the scenes, give up weekends and time with your family to try to make their future better.
Joe is involved if you read his posts and diaries he is an activist for sure. He’s asking for feedback on something thats been in the back of many a liberals mind as we watch the party position itself for the midterms.
IMHO we would be siphoning off the best soldiers for a suicide mission. The party needs you BostonJoe it needs people like you who get out in the streets. It needs people who are passionate like yourself and the many on this diary who agree with you. I’m just not there yet. I think it would be a mistake. Considering the importance of getting these lunatics out of power I can’t make the jump yet.
“we would be siphoning off the best soldiers for a suicide mission”
THAT is a great line.
Also live in MI 8th. Have tried to do as you suggested, but the local dems reject any input from me, yet they still beg for campaign contributions!! And then they turn around and say that leaders are needed. Seems to me that their definition of a leader is one who doesn’t make waves.
Also, before Marcinkowski declared, they pulled that same donation stunt, although the caller admitted that at the time, they didn’t even have a candidtate! My response, “If no one will run against Rogers, I will!!
So when change is rebuffed, there is something wrong with the whole thing, as Joe repeatedly has written. And that is the underlying reason for my going 3rd party!
I haven’t seen all of Joe’s diaries. And I know how hard it can be to get change at the local level, but few things in life are easy. But I hate when people quit. If the leaders don’t listen to you, keep working others in the crowd until you get enough backing you to oust the leaders.
That’s what we did in my county. I don’t write about Berkeley County often because few people are going to care on a board like this. But we went through 2004 with most of the established party not wanting anything to do with the progressives. They made it pretty clear they didn’t want us. (One of the subtle clues was when I heard one say “We don’t want you.”) So we just kept coming back. And we organized phone banks and took over the calling and the canvassing and all the things they didn’t want to do.
Not all of them were this way. The executive director wasn’t. But most of the association board was. We were interfering with their social club.
And when we didn’t leave, they quit coming. Did we win our county? No. We wouldn’t have anyway with them.
And a week after the election our grassroots group met. And met again. Through those rainy and cold and dark and depressing days, we didn’t quit.
And then we went to the county association meeting in December. Guess how many of the old guard were there? Three. So we took it over.
We went from a dozen people at the meeting after the election to our people run the county association. And the county association is seeing new growth like never before.
That’s why my ire raises when I hear people wanting to quit. Change doesn’t come easy and I’m sorry I didn’t acknowledge the work Joe has done.
But that’s why you and Joe shouldn’t leave. We’ve got too many quitters in the Democratic side. We need more people who believe and are willing to be passionate and make it work from within.
We need you guys.
I’ve missed you and your happy stories, Carnacki.
Thanks. I quit posting them for a while after the Alito vote (the white trash poet, kerry and kredwyn posted a few to fill in for me) because I didn’t have a lot of happiness.
BTW, jsmdlawyer and I were talking last week about organizing another Harpers Ferry gathering, either in Harpers Ferry or elsewhere. Do you think people would be interested?
Most definitely! That was a wonderful time last year. Are you thinking DC area again?
Leaving an abusive relationship is not quitting. Staying is easy so long as you have plenty of bandaids and you don’t care about your integrity anymore. Leaving the democrats to build something better and more representative of our values is hardly taking the easy way out. In fact the hill is so steep that it’s almost impossible to climb but the only way to get to the top is one step at a time.
I doubt you’ll find any quitters here. What you will find are dedicated activists who are through being shit on every two years.
I hear what you’re saying. In West Virginia, there is the Mountain Party for those who want to leave the Democrats, but want to stay active. I hope any West Virginia Tribbers who decide to leave the Dems consider it. I know they haven’t updated the site in a while, but they do run viable campaigns.
Thanks supersoling. Refreshing to see where someone finally understands where I am coming from. And, this is not a spur-of-the-moment decision, or one that has been made in haste/anger after Jim’s blogging. I have been thinking about this for a few months actually.
I know that it won’t be easy. Just like writing about Medicare D isn’t easy. (Reading about those people who are denied there rx’s is heartbreaking.) But I write about it because that is the way I am. When I really get into something, I stick with it.
And I feel strongly about Medicare D and a single-payer health care system. Change is needed to remedy a crisis in this country. And, instead of remedies/a drastic overhaul, I see more attempts at trying to preserve a system that does not work.
As for the dems, I’m gone.
Carnacki, I hear what you are saying. However, I don’t perceive going 3rd party as quitting, as I am not going to give up. I just feel that the system is damaged beyond repair. With that in mind, I have made my decision, as the only way to have any influence is through a third party.
Most third party platforms were adopted eventually adopted by the dems or the repubs. In this instace, I refer specifically to Teddy Roosevelt and the Bull Moose Party. However, not all of the platform was actually implemented, rather, lip service was paid, and people were basically in a position of having to settle for what was decided by the powers-that-be.
And, I would you to please consider the fact that it could be possible that the dem supporters in your area are/were more receptive to change and new ideas than the dems are here. Like I said, I am told one thing and another happens–politics as usual. Look at the carrot and stick approaches that have repreatedly been used at the Federal level. It is the same thing here, and I don’t need the aggravation of repeatedly being conned.
IMO, the dems are too complacent and willing to accept the status quo. I mean, for crying out loud, an ex(?) Reaganite is now claiming to be a dem, and I am supposed to vote for him because he claims to be a dem, yet his history and attitude suggest otherwise. I’m not stupid–and that is the thing. The powers-that-be assume that people are.
For all practical purposes, the democratic party is completely non-responsive and hell-bent on justifying their lack of action for those they represent. So, I really feel that the Democratic should bow out gracefully/die a long overdue death/be destroyed if it is unwilling to accept new ideas, as has been repeatedly claimed.
That is why I am going 3rd party. As in mythology, a phoenix rose from the ashes. Seems to me a responsive/progressive political party could too.
Street Kid, I hope you look at history.
BA w/a minor in American History. In it’s present form, the democratic party is useless, as demonstrated by what has been reported as the behind-the -scenes crap that influenced Paul Hackett’s decision. What more proof do you need?
If, as you said earlier, the dems need people like Boston Joe, me, (and Paul Hackett) they sure as hell have a funny way of showing it. W/that in mind, as it has been repeatedly demonstrated to me that my input is not needed, why waste my time?
And being originally from Detroit, members of my family were active in the origin of the UAW–no one whose name you’d recognize, but the fact of the matter is that w/o people like them and numerous others, there would never have been a UAW. That is one specific example as my family’s political activism.
Like my ancestors, I am unwilling to settle for platitudes of “someday/soon” and accept the status quo as “improvement” when it is nothing but a sham.
I hope you see where I am coming from.
Short of armed revolt — and only the cooler head of Ms. Carnacki stopped me from taking to the street at 2 a.m. on the morning after the election with my 12 gauge — I don’t see any other alternative than working within the system as hard and as best as I can.
Also I wanted to point out Meteor’s diary because he’s a hell of a writer and much better at stating the argument for staying than me.
See where you were coming from, but the fact of the matter is that we disagree, you feel working w/in the system is the best way to make change. I see working w/in the system as an exercise in futility as, from everything that has recently happenned shows me that the organization (democratic party) is more concerned w/the organization itself than the values of the voters that it claims to represent.
It appears that we have the same objective in mind, but prefer different methods.
On that note, I feel that the best thing we can do is agree to disagree on the way we feel is best for reform, and wish each other luck in achieving reform.
hey Carnacki, always nice to hear from you but I think you must have missed quite a few diaries that Joe did..he’s become extremely active. In his hometown and organizing things online such as the whole Alito Operation.
I don’t see his diaries as simple complaining but rather heartsick responses to what is happening with the Democratic Party and what we can possibly do to have some effect. And a way to let off steam before effecting change.
Thanks chocolate ink for straightening me out. I wrote a long response to Street Kid I hope you see.
I know what it’s like to get fed up with the established Democrats — Senator Byrd’s vote for Alito for example sent me into a funk.
But instead of quitting I went to the county meeting the following week and raised hell.
I just hope the kind of relationships that people build here on line with each other are also the kind of relationships they’re building with other activists at the county level and with local grassroots groups.
Because that’s where we’re going to effect change and also need our voices heard.
hey again Carnacki..yes, I did see that and as always I enjoy reading what you have to write and your opinions on issues.
Does anyone else see the irony in the trend by democrats of all affiliations to engage in the infighting to elect as many military folks as possible?
Joe, I have been feeling the exact same way, as posted in your earlier diary–Meet My Choice. And I have previously posted my feelings re: the Green Party as well. (Now I am wondering if MI 8th could be a starting point.) If anything, a progressive influence would serve multiple purposes:
So, yeah, I’m in.
Let them die now. It´s no use trying to keep them alive. They are really Republicans. Hackett is an ok person and they killed him.
Vote Green, Communist, Socialist anything but Democrat. They will never let Ralph Feingold run for President. They will kill him too if he tries.
I don’t know if it will hold true or not but I have a bad feeling about this coming mid-term election. I think the Dems are counting on all of us and believe they are going to win seats, maybe so but I also think many or some of us are going to opt out unless we happen to have a real progressive candidate where we are at, and the powers that be in the Democratic party are going to sitting there with egg on their face wondering what went wrong.
This whole deal with Hackett seems to point up very specifically how absolutely out of touch with so many dem voters who want real change and a politician, any politician to speak up and from the heart-passion is always better than expediency.
The phrase eating your own comes to mind. Even if the dems do pick up seats at this point I don’t even believe it will make any difference. Given their track record so far, why should I?
Right now I have no solutions and only questions about what I should be doing.
Harry Reid
He picked the wrong day to ask me to do anything, (although I do care about the “Medicare mess”)
Anyway, I chose to unsubscribe. There was a box for, “why?”
This was all I wrote;
Do you think that needs a footnote?
😀
prima fascia case if I ever saw one!
Thanks for doing that today. NOw I know that at least they got 2 voices stating the same thing. Can I get any more takers on this issue. Are you gonna be willing to put your attitude on the line for everyone here I did and so did ND Dem. It is a start and an early start at that. ARe you willing to get your voices heard? Lets do what we did to Alito…Let them hear from us, loudly and clearly! Let all say that we do not think much of how they have been practicing their profession and that they will probably get fired if they continue this kind of attitude. See where I am coming from? What ya say…can we do it???? I happen to think we can..Sets start now and not let up! till we see change. After all they work for us, dont they?!
The cloture vote on Alito was an eye-opener for me. As to what I saw – there is no unified Democratic Party at the national level.
Molly Ivins a few years ago, observed that the new Republicans in TX politics didn’t want to govern, they wanted to rule.
Fast forward to spring of ’04 in PA. There is Specter running for re-election, pretty much a shoe-in. So what happens? He is given a very rough challenge in the primary by Toomey, a very rightwing Republican. Result? Specter moves right.
SallyCat posted/hosted an interesting diary, A Question – Conversation Continuation
Duke1676 had an interesting idea:
Jim M. from your area was a very interesting experiment following along the lines of Duke’s suggestion (minus the progressive part).
I am afraid that we don’t have time to build a third party.
I would rather see support for a progressive – regardless of party, who has a possibility of winning against a Republican. I would also like to see support for a strong challenger to an incumbent right-wing Democrat. (BTW, instead of the challenger and incumbent Dem destroying each other, they would run campaigns against BushCo.)
My other suggestion is we pool our resources and buy some federal lands coming up for sale, move, and secede.
Joe,
As per your request for a show of hands I’ll let my party registration speak as my answer to you.
I’m a registered Green.
If a democrat comes along who is willing to act on, not just listen to my concerns, then she/he will get my full attention and consideration and material support. Until that time I’m shifting my attention to candidates who I absolutely know will take my concerns seriously and whether or not they have a political chance in hell to win, I will support in anyway I can, and vote for them. To my mind it’s the only way for third, fourth, or fifth parties to become viable. Through painful, unwavering support and consistancy. At some point the democrats may come to realize that if they wish to survive as a party they’ll have to start reaching out and building coalitions with these other parties. But I won’t hold my breath for that day to come. They’ll shift their thinking or die a slow and demoralizing death. Kind of how I feel my idealism and hopes for this country have been dying a little each time I’ve had to take a blow in the stomach from those I’ve put my trust in to be my voice.
Sherrod Brown may be more a progressive than Paul Hackett. But when they take that decision out of the hands of the people I feel like there’s not much difference between Chuck Schumer and Harry Reid, and Ken Blackwell in Ohio.
Count me in.
That’s my vote, Joe. But you know we’re on the same team.
I’ve been through crises like these before. I think the party is rotten nearly to the core. But I’m a Dean-bot and I’m not getting discouraged long-term. I told Howard face-to-face once on the CU campus that I’m in this for as long as it takes, and I don’t lie.
Having said that, I completely understand how others can decide differently, and I respect your decision. Please come back when the Democratic Party actually works for you.
Not…Bill. Say it isn’t so!
the good one. 🙂
I scrunched up the courage to check. You have the good Bill! Hooray!
I’ve decided to dedicate myself to writing protest songs for our current era. They’ll be hauntingly reaching in style to the same struggles we survived decades ago, or more accurately, we chose to ignore and we are now forced to face.
In light of this generation’s fear of commitmentment, I’ll write them so a few words can interchange if one decides this 3rd party thing ain’t gettin’ it or stays dem/ind from the start.
😀
Rumi, all day long your comments have been absolutely glorious.
I worship your wit!
Hey, thanks Tehanu. I don’t think we have many options left besides finding humor…or, did you mean my comments are so far removed from reality that they’re laughable?
😀
…so anyway, this new theory maintains that Cheney is actually a lizard-type being that has survived hundreds of centuries as a son of Belial….casting curses at the Law of One.
I feel some great songs coming on.
I encourage you too cross post your comments on the Michigan Liberal (www.michiganliberal.com) concerning the viability of the Democratic Party and their candidates. Good posts.
My questions now are not so much about about party as they are whether or not the political process is the most effective place to work for change.
I think our culture and socialization processes are so disturbed at this point, that we can’t develop communities that are made up of informed connected people. Without this, the whole concept of democracy is a farce. And the decision about whether or not to support the Democrats seems a long way off my radar screen.
I’m beginning to think more about how I can contribute to healing and creating connections in my own small world. No answers yet – but those are my questions.
Depending on your discretionary resources of time, money and energy after meeting your basic needs, you can find plenty of things, just by looking around, seeing needs and filling them.
Maybe help a recent immigrant with English, a job hunt, understanding the phone bill, maybe there is someone in your community who cannot afford to purchase medical treatment, you could form a mini-gang with a couple of like-minded friends and perform a reverse robbery.
Something as simple as giving someone without transportation a ride to the supermarket when you go could make a real difference in that person’s quality of life.
Just get yourself into that mode, and start thinking and looking, and next thing you know, you will be part of the Resistance!
DTF, your ideas are all wonderful things to do and worthy of our efforts. But my questions are more about how we heal the spiritual/psycholgical damage that has happened in our culture.
For example, I am in a leadership position professionally, and I wonder how I can use that to affect the people I work with. I run a small non-profit and most of our employees are idealistic young people. And yet their lives beyond work have been caught up in our culture of disengagement in community. I would like to work with and challenge this small group of people to have an impact – but I think its beyond getting them to vote for the right party/candidate.
Anyway, I can’t say a whole lot more at this point – I’m just thinking and reading – right now exploring the potential healing to be found in eastern spirituality. All that is more about healing myself and then seeing what I can pass on.
people you work with each did something like this, it could open a door to becoming more engaged with the community.
I don’t mean to suggest that you, or anyone, can single-handedly get the entire society to start doing these kind of things, and thus effect a revolution.
But what I am suggesting is that instead of sending money to politicians, people become engaged enough in their community to look around and see other things they could do with that money. Is there a child of a single mom who looks like she could use new shoes?
Is there a smaller version of Lilith fund in your community who could turn your contribution into rescue for a desperate young woman with an unwanted pregnancy?
If your local homeless shelter is turning people away, and you bought them a few cots, they could turn a few less people away.
In my opinion, people of conscience who are not receiving a psychological benefit from their devotee activities toward the politicians, could not only receive a greater personal benefit from these small acts of Resistance, but their actions would have very real and immediate positive impact on the recipients.
Your group of young people sound like they would make an ideal mini-gang, and might enjoy committing reverse robberies. They are fun for all ages, I can attest. 😉
I know the Democratic Party has some serious problems but it’s all we have. Any split of the progressive vote will only help the Republicans (a la Ralph Nader). With all of their dirty tricks, with their control of the media, with their ability to manipulate electronic voting, party unity is the only hope we have.
Draft Al Gore.
Some women have figured out that the Republicans don’t give a damn about us and say so. No conversation, no kiss, bad sex, pass you around, wear you out, you’re on your own, no abortion, no medical care, no child support. I’ve finally gotten it that the Democrats say they love and respect us, give us a perfunctory kiss, talk our ears off without ever listening, date rape us, give us VD, don’t want to know we’re pregnant, and then ask when they can see us again. Occasionally they look puzzled and ask, “Honey, are you mad about something ?” but they attribute the answer to PMS.
The Democratic Party is on notice: YOU’RE NOT MY BOYFRIEND ANY MORE. – SusanW
I’ve never been a big fan of partisan politics. The problem with the two-party system we currently have is that the two parties have grown so much alike that they may as well just merge and be done with the pretense of being different parties.
As far as Michigan’s 8th district is concerned, as I’ve said before, if you want to unseat Rogers, encourage as many parties as possible to run candidates against him. The closest race in Rogers’ congressional career was one involving no incumbent, and four other candidates.