America: Love It or Leave It!
This piece was inspired by some comments posted on floridagal’s diary from Friday, What have you to offer me
The subject turned to the notion of “unintentional dismissiveness” in the context of harmless, unintended sleights made by members of racially, sexually, religiously, physically and/or otherwise “privileged” communities.
I pointed out that these unintended sleights and offenses were so all pervasive, especially for anyone who is marked as Other in multiple ways, that they could amount to as many as 10,000 a day, to which Booman responded [here http://www.boomantribune.com/comments/2006/2/17/0826/47852/119]
What bothers me are people that see a slight in every glance, or turn of phrase, or lack of an invitation, or professional disappointment. I think there is an actual psychological term for this mindset (at least when it becomes a problem and requires treatment). But it is a very annoying trait.
I’m the last person to deny the many slights that people must endure in this world, or to deny your basic point. But if you are getting 10,000 slights a day, you need to see a doctor.
So I got to thinking about that. Maybe this is indeed my own personal mental health issue. In fact, I was so preoccupied with that prospect that I managed to lock myself out of the house (in subzero temps) yesterday and ended up having to hang out at a local bookstore for a few hours before my husband could come and rescue me from my predicament. While there, I picked up the most recent title by civil rights activist and Harvard-educated attorney, Randall Robinson, “Quitting America: The Departure of a Black Man From His Native Land.”
As synchronicity would have it, already in the first chapter, I stumbled on some quotes that fit right into the discussion and posted them here, belatedly, along with a couple of interesting linkson the author:
Most white Americans in their dealings with black, brown, and all other varieties of nonwhite people are altogether well-mannered and are often all the more damaging for it . For indeed fine manners and America’s national opiate of choice, chauvinistic narcissism, combine to immunize white Americans en masse from self-knowledge, self-doubt, self-criticism. If they don’t like us, it is only because they are jealous of us.
[. . .]
Many, if not most, Americans will read this and no doubt sigh a “what’s the big deal, and where is this place you’re talking about, anyhow?” As a practical matter maybe it wouldn’t be such a big deal,were not such coarse little bricks being hurled willy-nilly across the world daily by brainless, insensate white Americans, high and low, numbering in the thousands . And no, I have not suffered an inexplicable lapse of language judgment. I use the words brainless and insensate advisedly, if perhaps somewhat desperately. White people around the world insult black people, brown people, everyone-but-them people, regularly and gratuitously, without even the bitter, dubious flattery of conscious intent.
I’ve highlighted in bold the points in which Robinson is referring to the same kind of “convenient cluenessness” (as aptly described by susanw) or unintended dismissiveness included in my “wtf?-who’s-really-counting-“anyway citation of the 10,000 daily insults: Robinson estimates what he calls the “coarse little bricks being hurled willy-nilly across the world daily” to be in the “thousands”. My estimate, was admittedly not based on any actual ‘count’ of unintentional dismissals but rather was used metaphorically to say “ongoing barrage of unintended assaults on my sensibilities”–I thought the subsequent “winka-winka” comment about “who’s counting” ought to have made that clear.
At any rate, since I’ve since been asked to “tell the whole truth and nothing but”, I will freely admit that I took serious offense at this comment.
So, are you suggesting that someone who is so sensitive to unintentional insults that he has to leave the country is a well adjusted and happy individual in no need of a psychiatrist?
It seems like that is what you are saying.But I can’t think of a better example of someone who is neurotic and intensly unpleasant to be around.
He makes a valuable point and a point that needs to be reiterated often. But he still needs a chill pill.
But rather than waste my time on an unintended offense, I decided to weave from the silver lining and focus on this: “Robinson makes a valuable point that needs to be reiterated often.”
So I decided to use this instead as an opportunity to take a closer look at this civil rights activist who, shortly before 9/11 “changed everything,” decided that he had to leave America in order to find any sense of serenity in his life. This post is an attempt to reiterate and reiterate often the point that Robinson and others like him continue to make.
For those of you familiar with my history, you know that I came to the same conclusion in 1984, when I left the country in protest of Ronald Reagan’s reelection, only to return in 1992. I suppose I’d have left again in the year 2000, but, if William Greider’s analysis of the situation (as presented in his 1996 “One World Ready or Not: The Manic Logic of Global Capitalism”) is any index, there is, to cite the title of the well-known East German author Christa Wolf, “No Place. Nowhere.” (Kein Ort. Nirgends.) No place on Earth. To get away from this shit. To be free of the constant barrage of assaults on identity and everything one holds sacred and dear. America is everywhere. We are all wearing the orange jumpsuit, the blue dress, the electrodes attached to our genitals.
And yet, I know an increasing number of people who are nevertheless setting out for “distant shores” in search of places where the barrage is at least not as intense. As more and more of my friends move to Canada, to South America, to Europe, to Africa, the West Indies–anywhere but here–I do have to question the wisdom in my decision to “stick it out.” But I’ve always been that kind of glutton for punishment.
Since I certainly can’t afford a shrink and really don’t relish the thought of losing my mind, blogging has become a form of “alternative therapy” and today I’d just like to pay tribute to the sense of loss I feel at the “brain drain” that is occurring as this country continues heedlessly and recklessly down the same path of mind-numbing refusal to look itself in the mirror that it has always been on. And today I do that by highlighting the life and work of Randall Robinson.
It is not insignificant to note that Randall Robinson left this country before 9/11. Before the illegal invasion of Iraq. Before the re-installation of B*shCo, before, before, before, before. A February 22, 2004 post at CommonDreams summed up my gut reaction to the news that Randall Robinson has joined the ranks of “America-quitters”: the headline reads, simply–“America Loses a Hero.”
I’m not quite sure who Booman is talking about when he refers to someone “intensely unpleasant to be around”, but if the photo on the Salon site might suggest, doesn’t look as if Maxine Waters considers Robinson all that unpleasant to be around, and judging from this January 2001 NPR interview with the man, he certainly sounds pleasant and sane enough. But we all know how it is with sound-bites and photo-ops.
The Horowitz crowd, as the April, 2004 commentary at Salon.com points out, “savaged the book” and termed Robinson a “smooth-talking racist”–and it is no surprise that the wingnuts at Frontpage.com consider Robinson’s departure no great loss.
Randall Robinson has made his choice for another country; Americans are none the poorer as a result.
Almost makes you wonder whether this isn’t the strategy: let’s just make it so unpleasant for all those who depart from the white male/female, heterosexual, Judeo-Christian, able-bodied norm to stay that they finally pack up and leave–the ones who can afford it, anyway. As for those who can’t, we’ll just let God and FEMA take care of them!
His bio at the The Huffington Post, where he is apparently a regular contributor, has this to say about the guy who needs a chill pill and/or a shrink:
Randall Robinson, is an internationally respected foreign policy advocate and author. He established TransAfrica in 1977 and was its president until 2001. The mandate of TransAfrica was to promote enlightened, progressive U.S. policies towards Africa and the Caribbean. While president of that organization, he spearheaded the U. S. campaign to end apartheid in South Africa. His leadership in support of the pro-democracy movement in Haiti – which included a 27-day hunger strike – also caused the United States Government to lead the 1994 multinational effort to return to power Haiti’s first democratically elected – but violently overthrown – government.
Mr. Robinson was actively involved in efforts to expose the brutality of the Mengistu regime in Ethiopia, the corruption in Nigeria during that country’s era of military dictatorships, and fought passionately to thwart US attempts to end the Caribbean’s access to the European banana market by the mid-90’s.
Randall Robinson is an author whose works include national best sellers (i) Defending the Spirit, (ii) The Debt – What America Owes to Blacks, (iii) The Reckoning – What Blacks Owe to Each Other, and (iv) Quitting America – The Departure of a Black Man From His Native Land. He is a graduate of Harvard Law School. Twenty-one universities have bestowed upon him honorary Ph.D’s in recognition of the impact he has had on U.S. foreign policy. He is the recipient of numerous awards for his global humanitarian work, and among the organizations that have honored him thusly are the United Nations, the Congressional Black Caucus, Harvard University, Essence Magazine Awards Show, ABC-News Person of the Week, The Martin Luther King Center for Non-Violent Change, the NAACP, and Ebony Magazine Awards Show, to mention a few.
He has presented his views on US foreign policy as well as the role of race in America on ABC’s “Nightline”, CBS’ “60 Minutes”, NBC’s “Today Show”, CNN, C-Span and other American television programs. He lives in St. Kitts with his wife and daughter, where he continues to write.
Shit, with a resume like that, I’d probably be in need of a chill pill, too.
In this October 2005 interview in The Progressive, Robinson elaborates on some of his reasons for leaving the country–and I’m sure many of us can relate to at least some of what he is saying here:
Question: Why did you decide to leave the United States?
Randall Robinson: I was really worn down by an American society that is racist, smugly blind to it, and hugely self-satisfied. I wanted to live in a place where that wasn’t always a distorting weight. Black people in America have to, for their own protection, develop a defense mechanism, and I just grew terribly tired of it. When you sustain that kind of affront, and sustain it and sustain it and sustain it, something happens to you. You try to steer a course in American society that’s not self-destructive. But America is a country that inflicts injury. It does not like to see anything that comes in response, and accuses one of anger as if it were an unnatural response. For anyone who is not white in America, the affronts are virtually across the board.
Q: Would you offer similar advice to progressives who feel beleaguered?
Robinson: A good many white Americans are leaving the country, too, moving to Canada. My book provoked a lot of mail, but it is the first time I have written a book where at least half the mail came from white Americans. So while the parts about race may not have resonated with them, the diagnosis of the culture did. Something is very, very wrong with American culture. The signs are everywhere. I think the country is in almost terminal descent. The business class is combined with the evangelicals. And I think the evangelicals want to provoke an immense global disaster to precipitate the second coming of Christ. So they are very happy about what we’re doing to Iraq–and the menace we present now for Syria and for Iran–because they think that the apocalypse is an important thing to get into so that they can see vindicated their most literal interpretation of the Bible.
And I’m aware that because America is so powerful–with its tentacles reaching out to the world–one doesn’t escape it by leaving. This is the most dangerous and disturbing time in my life.
In the same interview, he actually speaks directly to some of the concerns raised by Booman in his comments concerning the man’s psychological frame of mind when he says:
In an interior way, I am not as bleak as I sound. I’m a fairly happy human being. But am I in the short term optimistic? No. I search for reasons to be, and I’d be interested in you telling me what some might be, but I haven’t found anything in the short term. So I’m sorry, but I’m just not hopeful. And then there’s the collaboration or the accommodation of prominent blacks like Dorothy Haight and Andrew Young who stood up for Condoleezza Rice. One asks the question: Well, doesn’t one have to be something more than black to elicit your support?
And, while I’m not entirely certain, I do believe one could plausibly argue that, with the following statement, Robinson is more or less suggesting that, if anyone needs to take a chill pill, it’s “white America”:
Anyway, in my arguments for reparations, I’m not talking about writing checks to people. The word reparations means to repair. We’ve opened this gap in society between the two races. Whites have more than eleven times the net worth or wealth of African Americans. They make greater salaries. Our unemployment rate is twice theirs. You look at the prison system and who that’s chewing up. Now we’ve got the advent of AIDS. Fifty-four percent of new infections are in African Americans. Many infected men are coming out of prison and infecting their women. So when I talk about reparations, I say there has to be a material component. It has to have a component of education that is compensatory. It has to have a component of economic development that’s compensatory. But in the last analysis the greater damage is here [points to his head]. So I’m not really talking about money. And I’m not really talking about the concerns of people who say, “I didn’t benefit from slavery.” Nobody said you did.
It’s important for white America to be able to face up. Far beyond its relations with the black community, it is important for white Americans. It’s important in helping us in our approaches to the rest of the world, and in being sensitive to Islam, and to look at the way other cultures handle their management of themselves, and to look at it with respect, with the possibility that you even might learn something. We’ve got a country that never takes any responsibility for anything. It forgets its role and makes everybody else forget what happened, too. And that it is not just dangerous for the victim, but also for the perpetrator.
Then again, anyone who turns down an honorary PhD from a prestigious school like Georgetown probably ought to have his head examined–even if his reason for doing so was that he could not accept such an “honor” from an institution that, only days before, had awarded the same to George Tenet. He talks about this in this 2003 interview with Amy Goodman on Democracy Now!
Last year He once declined an honorary degree from Georgetown University because George Tenet, the director of the CIA and an ardent supporter of the invasion of Iraq, had been invited the day before to speak at one of Georgetown’s graduation exercises.
RANDALL ROBINSON: I wrote this, of course, on the commencement day in May in my hotel room in Longhand just before I was to leave to go over to the school.
“I wish to begin by apologizing to all of you if what I am about to say on your day causes you discomfort. I have fought all of my life against social injustice. I have opposed unjust communist regimes and unjust capitalist regimes. I have fought against unjust white regimes and unjust black regimes. I do not live in the United States anymore. I live on the tiny democratic Caribbean island of St. Kitts-Nevis. I only learned this morning that George Tenet, the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, was to be the speaker at your School of Foreign Service exercises yesterday. I sincerely believe that in the years ahead, the entire world will come to accept that the United States has committed in Iraq a great crime against humanity, a crime against innocent Iraqi women, children, and men. Indeed, a crime against our own men and women, who have paid and will continue to pay with their lives, for the greed of America’s empire makers. In my view, President Bush, Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Powell, and Mr. Tenet are little more than murderers. There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and they knew this. There is no Iraqi connection to 9-11. There was no legal justification for a war in which we have not bothered to count the Iraqi dead. America has committed an awful wrong in the sight of God, and I trust in time, that this will be the prevailing view or verdict of humanity. In any case, you have chosen the wrong person this morning. I should not have come. Indeed, I would not have come had I known before what I learned this morning, when I opened the newspapers. Americans must choose. They must choose between decency, of course, and empire, between morality and murder, between truth and deception. Mr. Tenet has the right to speech protected by our constitution, but that right should not be exercised on a platform so broadly respected as yours. I cannot accept your honor, for in my view, Georgetown University yesterday disqualified itself of the moral authority to bestow one. My candle lights little other than the interior of my own conscience; but for me, for all of my life, that has been enough.”
So anyway, I’m starting to feel better now, knowing that, if I do indeed need a shrink, then I’m not the only one. There is an odd sense of cold comfort in this Robinson quote, posted at the AmericanIdealism.com blog
America. America. Land of my birth and erstwhile distress. Hypocrite immemorial. My heart left long ago. At long last, I have followed it. Trying my very best, how could I, in good conscience, remain for a country that has never ever, at home or abroad, been for me or for mine? … I am afraid. I am afraid for the world and for myself, afraid of my own country. For if they could do so patently wrongful a thing [the invasion of Iraq] and sell it to themselves so convincingly as right, they could do anything–to anybody, anywhere… I have fought for and with America’s creed–against America… I am all but spent by the effort. A life now near used up contesting a fraud.
Yeah, Robinson got tired of wasting his time trying to ignore the unintentional sleights and insults. Got tired of the “Buy the bullshit or bury the truth”-line of thinking that would leave him with two options for finding serenity in his native country: see a shrink or get over it. Buck up, Buy Blue and make sure you mark the column that says “D” at the ballot box!
Of course, Robinson’s not the first in a long line of African American “heroes” we have lost to our persistent inability to look ourselves in the mirror and make even minor adjustments in our behaviors, if only for the sake of accommodating those neurotic and intensely unpleasant people who can’t seem to get a grip on the reality of life in these dis-United States. Dr. J. Cherry Muhanji, educational director of the School for Moral Courage, posted the commentary of James Clingman from January 2006 on the school’s site
:
Before you attribute this article as a call for Black people to move out of
the U.S., let me make it clear that I am not advocating such an action, but
I certainly understand why it occurs. One day I may leave this country for
good, but I am not saying all Black people should do so, nor am I saying
we should stay here. I just want to use history, both old and recent, to
stimulate thinking around what is happening to Black people in this
country.It’s not so much that DuBois left for Ghana; it’s what he said when he
departed. It’s not so important that Robinson quit this country; it’s what
caused him to quit. The rest of us who remain in this country must, first,
see what is happening to our people, and then make up our minds, both
individually and collectively, to do something about it.
And it’s good to see that there are still a few white folk out who realize that this really is about saving the souls of white folk more than anything. Tim Wise, whose work I have posted in other contexts on this blog, addresses some of these issues at the Blackcommentator in the context of varied responses to the death of Ronald Reagan. Wise, of course, since he writes and comments in venues where most of the authors are assumed to be Black by default, is always careful to remind his readers, that he is not:
But knowing white folks – I am after all one of them, and have been surrounded by them all of my life – I have little doubt that where there’s a will to remain in la-la land, we will surely find a way.
And this is what he had to say about Reagan:
But how can healthy people feel good about a leader who does and says the kinds of things mentioned above? Obviously the answer is by denying that racism matters, or that its victims count for anything. Even more cynically, it is no doubt true that for many of them, it was precisely Reagan’s policy of hostility to people of color that made them feel good in the first place. By 1980, most whites were already tiring of civil rights and were looking for someone who would take their minds off such troubling concepts as racism, and instead implore them to “greatness,” however defined, and “pride,” however defined, and flag waving.
Whites have long been more enamored of style than substance, of fiction than fact, of fantasy than reality. It’s why we have clung so tenaciously to the utterly preposterous version of our national history peddled by textbooks for so long; and it’s why we get so angry when anyone tries to offer a correction.
It’s why we choose to believe the lie about the U.S. being a shining city on a hill, rather than a potentially great but thoroughly flawed place built on the ruins and graves of Native peoples, built by the labor of enslaved Africans, enlarged by theft and murder and an absolute disregard for non-European lives.
What was that about Reagan again? What was that about la-la land?.
I don’t know. All I know is that I feel like I’m in good company with nutcases like Robinson and others who make themselves intensely unpleasant to be around for some people. All I know is that there’s not a chill pill in sight here, so I’m just going to crawl back into my Hobbit Hole and hope that, for anyone who’s made it this far into the post, the trip hasn’t been all that unpleasant.
Rest assured, y’all will be the first to know if I ever find a way to “get over it” without leaving the country. Again. For now, all I have to say is: Love it or leave it? I do love it, I have left it, and if you aren’t man or mouse enough to look yourself in the mirror in order to accommodate my “neurosis”, why don’t you think about leaving. I am here to stay.
It does help to live in a 90-99% Black neighborhood where the millionaires aren’t all drug dealers and gang bangers–heck, maybe one of these days I might run into a good shrink willing to work pro bona on helping me get over my “problem”. (see note below)
Please note: This by way of “Happy Ending”….and clarification for why I find it possible to resist ever running away from my home again:
When I was growing up, for as long as I remained with my birth family, the drug dealers in my neighborhood were the “rich” people–it’s why a lot of us aspired to become drug dealers. So, for the first ten years of my life, I lived on the Ghetto side of the “Hood,” aspiring to become a rich drug dealer like my brothers were, or perhaps to go into “go-go-dancing” like many of my mothers’ friends: stripping was easier for the women than drug dealing.
In the myriad foster homes I went through, I lived in neighorhoods (all of them all white) where the millionaires were doctors, lawyers and not “Indian chiefs.” I spent the next 8 years trying to get back to the ghetto side after social services stepped in and decided that I was definitely the stuff of the “gucci” side.
Today I live smack dab in the middle of the Hood, on what I call the “Mason Dixon line” on the border between the Ghetto (to the South) and Gucci (to the North).
I am happy to say that today I live in a neighborhood where people like me don’t have to aspire to become drug dealers in order to be in a position to purchase high-end properties in this nearly all-Black neighborhood.
People in this neighborhood are indeed doing something about the problems–and we have also found innovative ways of dealing with gangbangers and drug dealers; our condo community, for example, worked very closely with the family of the last junkie who bought a condo in our complex, to get him therapy and get him cleaned up; ultimately, we failed, we had to force him out and he ultimately committed suicide in his next place of residence. We don’t always succeed in our efforts to fix what is wrong with our community, but we’re working on it.
It’s really nice to have found a place where the Ghetto and Gucci live side by side. These days, I try not to stray too far from the neighborhood–as a prophylactic measure to avoid the problem of the unintended insults. It’s working out all right.
Please post chill pills here.
please amend to reflect the truth.
I said that anyone (you) who experiences pain from 10,000 unintended sleights a day is in need of therapy.
And I said that anyone that is so sensitive to unintended sleights that they are forced to leave the country is in need of therapy.
As should be obvious, this man did not leave this country over the issue of unintended sleights, and your diary is so deliberatly dishonest that it probably needs so much revision to be fair that it would probably be easier to just erase it and apologize.
I posted links to all the comments to which I make reference.
If you take the time to review the links to Robinson’s works/words in full, you will no doubt see that the 10,000 insults-a-day-keeps-the-Black-man away aspect of it is clearly also there.
This is the comment that ultimately prompted me to write:
You posted it after I had offered enough links and background info on the guy to indicate that he should be due at least a modicum of respect and that telling this guy, of all people. that he needs a chill pill….well , I’ll let the comments as posted speak for themselves.
Ultimately, tho, Booman, the diary is not at all about you or about me: it is about Robinson. We are incidentals.
Either you amend the visible portion of the diary to reflect a fair representation of what I said and the arguments I made (and this will take extensice editing) or I will unilaterally delete it.
Don’t be cute.
You wrote a diary that paints in me a highly unfavorable light. That would be acceptable except that it completely misrepresents my views and actions in order to be critical of them.
How about deleting the one who call everyone “witless imbecles” or the one that tells everyone who does not do exactly as you kingmakers in Philidelphia that we should get in line and quite VIOLATING “progrssive” ideals?
If neither of those suit your fancy, how about the rest of mine? 2 anda ahlf months should have been long enough to figure out how to do that, no?
I see you gave a pass on the former…Isn’t someone at least going to recomend that they need to call a hotline or something?
you’re welcome.
Must concede, I had problems with bringing you in association with Horowitz, but still wanted to bring in that link.
Couldn’t come up with a “smooth” transition–so on that point you fell victim to my strapped rhetorical toolbox. Sorry for that.
As far as the rest goes, as I said, I thought the truth was reflected in the links to comments, but really….the point was more about Robinson than about you and me.
We just became stage props… π
As Site Owner, it certainly is your right to delete any diary you see as unsulting you pesonally, but I sure hope you don’t before the two of you do some decent communicating, here or off line, to make sure you are reading each others intent and messages accurately.
Recomending therapy to people who do not agree with or make point different from yours, seems to be a favorite passtime of those of you who run this site — what exactly is up with that?
I think we need a new blogtopia law to go along with Godwin’s law:
“The first person in an argument to recommend that his/her opponent seek psychotherapy (or psychiatric help) has lost the argument.”
We’ll call it Benjamin’s Law. Let’s see if it sticks. π
And to be helpful to you I will take the trouble to point out exactly how unfair your diary is.
You said: “Booman suggested that people like me, who insist on taking offense at things which are said and done with no intentional malice or affront, needed to see a doctor”
But I didn’t say anything of the kind. I said that if someone experiences 10,000 sleights a day then they need to see a doctor. I never suggested for a moment that people who insist on taking offense at unintentional acts need to see a doctor. I said people that have this experience 10,000 times a day need to see a doctor. Then I said that it was an actual diagnosed neurosis and that there is treatment for it. And I said people suffering from such a neurosis are intensely unpleasant to be around. Totally different from how you portrayed it.
You said: To my chagrin, Booman concluded that Robinson, like me, was in need of a shrink. Or at the very least, a chill pill. At the same time, he confirmed: “Robinson makes a valuable point that needs to be reiterated often.”
I said that any person that is so beset by unintentional insults that the feel the need to leave the country over them needs to chill out. At the same time, I said he points/arguments were valuable and needed to reiterated often. You make it sound like I said that anyone who makes his arguments needs to take a chill pill. I didn’t say that.
You said: Booman suggests that the man is probably intensely unpleasant to be around
I did suggest that, and you seem not to deny it until you do deny it. But, it’s irrelevent anyway because I responding to your argument that this man left the country over the issue of unintended sleights. He didn’t. He left the country for a whole plethora of reasons, many of which are shared by white people, men, and religious people. Since your whole premise was flawed my critique of the man is flawed.
And the last comment you make about my neighborhood is just gratutious. Did I ever suggest that the only millionaires in my neighborhood are gangbangers? Did I ever even say that the millionaires in my neighborhood are drug dealers? And what are you suggesting by that comment anyway?
I have made amendments to the post.
What makes you think the comment is about your neighborhood: it’s actually more a reference to mine–and about the demographics of its southern regions, and those of its northern–I live smack dab in the middle, on what I call the “Mason Dixon line” on the border between the Ghetto and Gucci.
Odd. For as long as I remained with my birth family, the drug dealers in my neighborhood were the “rich” people–it’s why a lot of us aspired to become drug dealers. For the first ten years of my life, I lived on the Ghetto side of the “Hood”.
In the myriad foster homes I went through, I lived in neighorhoods (all of them all white) where the millionaires were doctors, lawyers and not “Indian chiefs.” I spent the next 8 years trying to get back to the ghetto side after social services stepped in and decided that I was definitely the stuff of the “gucci” side.
The point of my comment: it actually relates back to the quote from the school for moral courage site which refers to “doing something about” the problem.
I am happy to say that today I live in a neighborhood where people like me don’t have to aspire to become drug dealers in order to be in a position to purchase high-end properties in this nearly all-Black neighborhood.
People in this neighborhood are indeed doing something about the problems (and we have also found innovative ways of dealing with gangbangers and drug dealers; our condo community, for example, worked very closely with the family of the last junkie who bought a condo in our complex, to get him therapy and get him cleaned up; ultimately, we failed, we had to force him out and he ultimately committed suicide in his next place of residence. We don’t always succeed in our efforts to fix what is wrong with our community, but we’re working on it.)
It’s really nice to have found a place where the Ghetto and Gucci live side by side.
since I talked with you about the millionaire gangbanger and his crew that lived in my neighborhood and how I found it prudent to avoid them it seems a little disingenuious for you say that the reference to your neighborhood isn’t a reference to my neighborhood and a grossly unfair and backhanded way of characterizing how I view my neighborhood.
Are you experiencing 10,000 slights in this very diary or what?!
Get OVER it!!
How did that feel?
Not so nice, is it?
and spot on, both as truth and as a vituouso bit of blogging.
Thanks so much.
your edits are an improvement. I still don’t care for your insinuations in the closing segment.
own “sensitivities” in taking offense to this diary, given your stand of people taking offense?
I guess not, but to me it is the best example of a blind spot I have seen in QUITE some time.
It might be ironic if it were comparable.
This diary, as originally composed, was deliberately insulting. And, while I don’t like being insulted anymore than the next person, I also don’t expect to be free from it.
Brinnainne, you’re welcome to stay at the site. However, if your main activity is to only chime in when you find an opportunity to be critical of me or any of the other front-pagers then your contributions will be primarily disruptive. I hope you realize that.
I have taken a lot of abuse from you, some of it deserved, and I haven’t banned you because you have been a valued member of this community for a long time. And I don’t want to ban you. If I did, I certainly would have.
So, I am just asking you, politely I hope, to consider my position. I’m not asking to be above criticism. But, you need to contribute more than snide remarks or it becomes trollish.
Well, I suppose your point about being insulted is well taken, but I actually DID read the diary as originally written and the other ones as well…
As far as my “needing” to contribute at any particular level, I don’t think so. I contributed a fuckload to this site for many a month last year and when it came down to it (it being me expressing my dissenting views as regards some things you personally (and Susan) hold dear, including the banning of members who did the same) all hell broke loose, I was called sad and tragic and in need of professional help, called out for “patterns” by you, all around not very “valued” at all.
I said you were free to ban me for that in December and you chose not to, but in terms of the contribution level, I feel that I come out waaay ahead in the snide vs. “accptable” ratio.
If you feel absuled personally, I feel sad about that, but certainly not guilty … it’s your site and if you don’t want people around who call bullshit when they see it, rail against double-standards and power-games, that is fine. I said as much in December. But please spare me the new rules on how much when and where I can contribute.
FWIW Bri, edits made to this post were not made under durress, but rather in agreement with Booman’s criticisms.
I do not feel that the point of the amended post has been compromised in any way, and….well…I guess it’s kinda like me reminding myself that I don’t much like it when my beloved pet Malcolm poops on the couch in order to express his disfavor with something I have said or done, so if Booman felt like I was pooping on his couch….well…I went in and tried to clean it up and hope that Booman is now satisfied with the results.
That’s cool, stark! You’re an intelligent and reasonable person both — and I apologize if I am pooping on YOUR couch with my comments in this diary! π
Old bullshit that I should have taken elsewhere — it struck a nerve for me though, because of having been pooh-poohed about taking offense and given the same “but I didn’t mean anything by it, why the hell are you getting so upset?” defense as was going on in floridagal’s diary. I especailly loved the many comments about how, my being offened was in no way as important as so many other offeneses going on….anyway, old bullshit, never resolved, and shouldn’t have brought it up here. Again, apologies for pooping on your couch.
No problem, Bri….I’m not the one in this household who actually gets upset about the poop on the couch–I’m kind of Bohemian that way–long as it’s not the runny, messy stuff, and I realize that there are many people with many issues to work out here on this site….my thread can take a little poop.
Poop removal is really not a problem for me! π
Hang in there, yes?
…always!
be well!
it’s not that I am saying that you need to contribute more. I am saying you need to contribute a wider variety of comments.
If the only time we hear from you is to stir up shit then it is trollish.
And also, it’s easier to take your criticism constructively if it isn’t the only thing you do and it isn’t done in a consistently snide way.
But, really, it is not so complicated. If you have nothing good to say about me or the site or affairs of the day then you probably don’t need to visit this site in the first place. The fact that you read it on a regular basis suggests that you find at least some portions of it as worth your time. I don’t know why I don’t see more comments about the aspects you like, even if it has nothing to do with me.
Shit, I just wrote a really long comment and lost it.
Don’t feel like writing it again.
Let me say just this: I contributed a FUCKLOAD to this site for 6 months straight, live-blogging, reports and calls to action during Cindy’s Crawford stand and Katrina and Rita and on and on….it didn’t matter one bit in the long run. Hell, you hadn’t even read all of the comments I posted the DAY that you smeared me and jumped into defend Susan because I had “caused her to burn her hand” or whatever the fuck. I am supposed to believe now that you are aware of everything I post?
It is you site and if you feel that I am behaving trollishly then just fucking ban me and be done with it — I will not stop calling bullshit where I see it, posting my thoughts and opnions, whether or not they happen to agree with yours, and decrying double-standards and petty power-games — and I certainly am not going to follow some vague exhortations that I need to be posting a minimum of “site positive” comments to be able to post here. What utter fucking bullshit.
If you don’t want me to be able to do that, then just ban me, it’s worked for you before. I can still communicate with the people I want to — it’s not like by keeping me from posting here, you’ll be disappearing me from the internets or anything.
Thank you for the information on the Randall Robinson book. I will put it on my reading list.
A friend in New York who is African-American once posed a very interesting if complicated question:
Given: that there is no there out there; it’s all mirrors, so what we see in other people is always a reflection of something in ourselves.
Thus, what is it about themselves that white people so dislike that, when they see it reflected back from black people, causes white people to act as they do?
That was about 15 years ago, and I still don’t have an answer. But I think about it daily.
WOW. First of all I am really confused. But let me say thank you, Stark for this wonderful diary that explains so well what I in my “priveleged” (or somewhat preveleged) white-female life have felt since a small child.
Thank you for the wonderful resources you have linked to as well.
What I am confused about is Boo’s take on this and the previous comments that started the push pull between the two of you. I have read all the comments in the other diary. I have read all the comments here. So, as a white, elder-female, gay, radical left, socialist, progressive. . .I am confused.
I have concluded that I have been right in my assesment of myself all along. . .I am obviously alien to this planet and even more obviously alien to this country that I love so much. Maybe that is why I related so strongly with the “unintentional dismissiveness” you have been talking about. Maybe aliens such as myself have experienced some portion of it also.
It may also be possible that I am one in need of psychiatry, although my therapist friend assures me I am not, I guess she could be mistaken and Booman could be right. I am not intending or attempting to find fault with Boo, or dismiss his take on things, I am trying very hard to understand it. You see, I am one of the ” apparently in need of psychiatry” folks that took offense at his comment. It is not personal to the Booman, I take offense at armchair psychological evaluations from anyone. I have no idea what background of training Boo has that allows him this latitude, so I will assume it is extensive. More extensive than my own. It just seems to me from my place of “craziness” that sweeping statements about other peoples mental health are a bit out of place and quite certainly suspect as well as insulting.. At least they are so to me. And I guess that I therefore prove Boo’s point.
In my day to day dealings with others, I am always somewhat surprised at what others find offensive. So you see, I am not so very good at this either. I am just as surprised at what is offensive to me at times. This awareness has allowed me to own up to my own unintended dismissiveness wherever it raises its ugly head and to point UD out to others when I percieve it. It helps me grow and be more aware of how I interact with others.
Nothing I have said here is intended as snark, as intentional insult or dismissiveness of anyone. These are just my heart-felt concerns and ramblings.
I hope the two of you can mediate your differences. And if anyone can help me understand better what fuels them, I will appreciate the enlightenment.
I don’t know, Shirl, I feel like too much is being made of the personal “spat” between me and Boo. For my part, there are no hard feelings–tho I do agree with you that sweeping, armchair psycho-diagnoses are very irritating, and usually the retort of last resort.
At any rate, my take on the whole therapy thing: anyone who is NOT in need of therapy at this point in the game is either on some very good drugs or simply not paying attention.
But, as you know, I, too, am a “doctor” of sorts–so if you’ll allow me to present you with a “script”–a “drug” of sorts that might help you get through this day–I suggest trying to get your hands on this book by Louky Bersianik. I guarantee you that you will feel like someone just handed you a 24-hr supply of nitrous oxide (going market rate at the dentist office: $75-120 / hr.). The book is a bargain by comparison.
Thanks for stopping in and good to see you coming around these parts!
Shirl-
Here is my take on things.
Some people, and they need not be minorities of any type, they can be straight white males with average education and average income and average religiosity, living in an avergage white neighborhood…but some people have a psychological affliction that leads them to suffer repeated insults where no insults are intended.
They are obsessed with getting disrespected and they see disrrespect everywhere and all the time.
And my original point that started all of this is that is not a good character trait, and when it is really excessive it can actually be debilitating and require treatment.
Now, it is my opinion that someone who perceives 10,000 or any thing remotely close to 10,000 instances of disrepect or dismissiveness on a daily basis is suffering from neurosis and is also insufferable to be around.
Five or ten or fifteen instances might just be indicative of the routine ways that the majority and the culture can be unintentionally dismissive. But if you are experiencing more than that something else is going on.
And Stark was arguing that this man, who has many fascinating and important things to say, left this country because he was tired of being routinely disrespected and dismissed by a culture that didn’t even realize it was doing it. But, in fact, he left for a wide variety of reasons, including outright intentional dismissiveness.
If he had left only because of the unintended actions of others then I would say that he has emotional problem where he is on a constant lookout to find any reason to be offended and it is so debilitating that he had to leave for a place where he hoped to detect less of it. And good luck with that. But, in fact, he didn’t leave for that reason and so me actually find happiness without psychiatry.
The underlying issue is how to communicate to people to make them aware of the ways in which they can unintentionally offend people. The hope is that by pointing out when they do it they will learn and become more aware and see with wider eyes and stop being offensive. And there are good ways to do that and there are bad ways to that.
And if white, religious, males have a hard time understanding how their communications can be offensive to others, the opposite is also true. So, those that would be the critics, or educators of the majority population need to stop and listen too.
And there is another aspect to this that comes from an entirely different place. I am not a Buddhist, but when it comes to the Buddhist attitude toward harboring resentment and taking offense, I fully subscribe to their view. I really do see it as a psychic problem if a person is feeling constant pain from the unintended insults of others. I know there is plenty of good cause for it and I fully support the efforts of people that seek to educate others about their careless behavior. But, at the same time, I think they can achieve greater self-happiness through the application of a few basic Buddhist principles.
Ahhhhhhh, now I understand. Thanks Boo
Something I relate to very strongly: What you focus on you become. What you look for you will find!
Got it now.
I don’t recall having made that argument. Can you point out where I did?
I suppose that’s good enough advice–if your purpose in life is “greater self-happiness”.
However, most of the people who have affected real change in society (however great or small) have not been in it for “greater self-happiness.”
Sure, it is all right here:
And you go on to site his comments on unintentional insults.
Pretty obvious that your point is that this man left the country to “cure” him of “his problem”.
Except he has a lot more to say on the issue of why he left and unintentional insults is hardly high on his list.
I merely took your argument at face value and made the point that if he did indeed leave the country for that reason he must be an insufferable person in need of therapy.
You can keep arguing this as long as you want. But you’ll never convince me that a well-adjusted person can become so agigtated by unintentional sleights that they can justifiably need to flee the country.
There are many other good reasons. The crushing defeat of Walter Mondale, for example.
Yeah, we could “argue” this till the cows come home–somehow we always get stuck on this point, don’t we: you are expecting “arguments” from my writing; and yet, I don’t make arguments–it’s not the intent of my writing: I put food for thought out there.
So I’m always rather taken aback when you come at me with these “flaws” you find in “arguments” that were never conceived and/or constructed as “arguments”.
At any rate, you are right, we could do the ‘why did the chicken or the egg cross the road in the first place’-dance ad infinitim.
But it would ultimately do little to address the “problem” of “unintended dismissiveness.”
Sometimes I think if people were less intent on finding “reverse racism” in every statement made on the subject of race in America and more focussed on how the garden-variety type of racism can be reversed, the problem might be solved a hell of a lot sooner than we ever could have imagined.
Maybe the problem is that you are using rhetoric to make your points and that you don’t think you are making an argument.
Once you develop a rhetorical theme it must not only be internally consistent, but it also must lead through several premises to a conclusion.
Now, in your case in this instance, your premises were flawed, your facts were skewed, your pivot points were strawmen and misrepresentations of my views, and you heaped accusations of considerable racist sentiments on my part on top for dessert.
Then you pretended you had not done some of these things, and in other cases you made concessions and partially corrected the record.
You can’t start a fight with me and say you are not engaging in an argument. You also can’t write a lengthy piece of rhetoric and claim it doesn’t seek to make an argument but only to offer ‘food for thought’.
Even in this post that I am responding to, you somehow insinuate that I have used charges of reverse racism as a rebuttal to your points. But, of course, I never leveled such a charge at you at all. And so the dance continues.
You have stated that you suffer 10,000 insults a day because people are so institutionally insensitive, and you have stated that this causes you immense pain that leads you to consider leaving the country. But you know that, at bottom, this is a line of bullshit. You probably suffer a few insults a day. Maybe on television you get a little barrage. Maybe on the way to work you encounter someone that is inadvertently dismissive. Maybe at work, or at lunch, and then maybe on the way home. And you know just as well as I do, that if you getting more of it than that then you just looking for it.
And if you want to try to explain the reasons why this man left this country by reference to unintentional insults then you are being equally dishonest. No sane person leaves their country over such a thing. It a part of a much bigger picture. And you also know that anyone that would take that to be a significant portion of their motivation for leaving the country must be unhappy and dysfunctional. Whether they have grounds to be dysfunctional is another matter.
So, rather than engage me in debate you decided to stick to your guns right a diary that is all about me (despite your unsupportable assertions to the contrary) and to totally misrepresent pretty much everything I said and to subtly accuse me of racism.
And on top of it, you claim total innocence in the whole matter.
Of course you’ve angered me. But that is not important because I am not an angry person and I don’t let these things bother me for very long. What is far more important is that the larger point you hope to make is totally lost when you use these tactics. It’s not clever and it’s not remotely convincing.
Stark, I have a question for you.
Do you think it is ever justified to question a person who says they have been dismissed by a person of priviledge? This is an honest question – I promise.
And if it’s justified, how is one to know?
And if it’s not ever justified, does that mean that the claim is never abused?
You see, I love what you have written about this – I even copied one of your comments from yesterday to use with our staff at work. But there have been times in my professional career that I felt the need to call “bullshit” to a claim of dismissiveness (or racism). And yet I know there is always so much more to the story than I can see.
On the other hand, I think these issues are way more complicated than to say that any claim is always without alterior motive.
What do you think?
NL, Yes, I do think it is often justified to question this. And in fact, I can tell you that one major reason I no longer live in St Paul/Minneapolis is that I did it all too often.
It was the Black population of that city which truly brought me to the realization that, even if the charge is unjustified, I should probably just suck up and take it–because it is indeed true that especially for black people or people visibly marked as “people of color” (which I am not) have to look the other way so many gd times it is not funny.
I just decided at some point that I could forgive them for any abuses or unjustified claims in that regard. And believe, I could write a fucking book about those years of experience in the SP/MN black community.
When I moved to Chicago, I took those lessons with me–and I’m damn glad I did because to be honest, as I was saying to my husband just yesterday, I really do not feel comfortable in white neighborhoods and communities, I just don’t. And that’s my personal tick (I’m starting to think maybe I should have a g.d. DNA test done!;-).
For me, that means I have two options: move back to the Rez or live in urban black communities. And well, I am just a die-hard city girl…
So it is imperative to me that I be able to get along as a minority (usually a minority of one, the one non-Black in the room who happens to be the fucking DRUM TEACHER!). If that means swallowing some shit thrown at me based on the color of my skin, well, shit, you don’t come up from the hood to the ivory tower without having developed a bit of thick skin.
It’s easier for me to “blow off” unintended insults from people of color (or from gays or from the physically disabled), maybe because I know that even today, even TODAY, I am not immune to inadvertently letting some shred of the racist socialization that we ALL have hang out. I have lived all my life–with the exceptions noted (i.e. time in Europe, and time in white foster care)–in the black community, and I still to this day catch myself letting little remnants of racism come out and unwittingly walking around offending people.
I am accepted by my community now, and welcomed–but if I’d come at this project with the same kind of “what the fuck you talking about”-shit I had going on when I first hit the streets of Minneapolis after 10 yrs abroad, I’d seriously be on my way to Duluth or White Earth (most likely all the way up to Grand Portage) right about now! (Not a bad prospect, actually, and one I’ll likely take into serious consideration when I get too old to be lugging 200-300 pounds of African drums around the inner city)….
Hope that helps.
Let me see if I get what you’re saying…
What I’m hearing is that yes, sometimes the claim is unjustified, but its best to take it and keep my mouth shut.
If that’s what you’re saying, I can certainly do that when its directed at me personally. But what about when the claim is an attack on the work we do in this community and seems to be an attempt to take us down? That’s when it gets hard for me to STFU. I know this comes up because I’m a white woman running an agency that employs mostly people of color to work mostly with kids of color. And if I thought it would really help, I’d step down and work to get a person of color to take my place. But I don’t think that’s the issue. I think the attempts to take us down are really about getting access to the funding we receive to do our work. Now, that’s pretty cynical – but those are the stakes I think we’re dealing with because I have offered in any way I can, to work with the people involved and to share the resources, but have been told – no thanks.
By the way, this is true of only a few groups in this community – certainly not all. It’s actually just those that seem to have bought into the competitive model and imported it into community work. Interestingly enough – its usually the women-run organizations that tend to not buy into this model and seem to want to work together for the community good – regardless of race.
“What I’m hearing is that yes, sometimes the claim is unjustified, but its best to take it and keep my mouth shut.”
Indeed, that is what I am suggesting would have worked for me (maybe) in that city. I’m not suggesting this is the right thing for EVERYONE, or even the right thing at all, merely the most pragmatic one.
Believe me, NL, I know exactly what you’re talking about “up there” (and could probably start rattling off names and orgs/foundations that would be very familiar) to you.
The non-profit funding sector in MPLS/ST PAUL is absolutely insane and absolutely politicized, no doubt about it. (I was founder and director of a non-profit there, pretty much in the same position). The first advice I was given by a non-profit counseling service there was “surround yourself with black people if this is what you want to do.”
That, in the TC, was easier said than done!
But I ran up against the exact same problems your talking about. And I called people on it. That would have been a mistake here in the city of big shoulders, but it was a really big mistake for Minnesota nice territory!
I don’t know what would have happened had I decided to “shut up and listen” (which essentially meant “shut up and take it”) from the getgo in TC.
But the other consequence I took with me from the TC experience was that I’d best see to it that my primary source of income/funding was not derived from grants in competition with other non-profits (and increasingly, not even with for-profits). That meant: the work I was doing (and which had indeed been my profession and primary source of income for most of my time in Europe), I had to either do on a volunteer basis or see it as a form of “supplementary income.” I could not be viewed as making my living off the ever-shrinking funds available for that kind of work. It wasn’t right, but it was the way it was.
That meant going back to school for 5 yrs to get an MA and PhD, so that I had the alternative income to eliminate any substantial economic stake in the deal.
I do think there is a very big difference between the racial dynamics in TC and here in Chicago–and all I can tell you is that precisely the thing you are talking about is what prompted me to leave that community.
I am extremely grateful to that community for the things I learned about trying to “integrate” into it and be accepted. And one of the main things was: just the fuck up (or as Bob Dylan once said, “know your song well before you start singing!”)–it was more a matter of learning to listen than it was “eating crow”.
I found it helpful to establish relationships with the parents of the kids I was working with–they are the ones who have a vested interest in your programs–and they can be a powerful voice on your behalf (for example, sitting in public grant meetings, city council meetings, writing letters on your behalf; and of course the kids themselves–have them write statements about how they’re benefitting from your work. (this is basically what the guy at the grantwriting agency was saying when he said “surround yourself with black people”).
By the time I finally gave in and said, OK, I don’t give a damn who’s “out front” on this thing and was able to rally enough black people to support me and serve in leadership positions in my organization, we were already tagged as that “J.A.P.’s project”.
Fuck it.
My grandma used to have this Mynah bird who would say “Let’s go to Chicago!”
After taking my lessons and my blows up in the TC, I decided to take the Bird up on his offer.
I realized I’d made a lot of mis-steps and, regardless of what was objectively just or unjust, I was the one seeking admittance to, acceptance and adoption in to a black community–no one was inviting me in.
Now that I’m “in”, all I can tell you is how I personally got there. I can’t set norms and standards or offer patent solutions for anyone else (I think my previous comments in that regard may have been interpreted as such). I can only say what worked for me.
But do bear in mind that even I found that area an impossible nut to crack. I still have ties to folks in the Indian community there and on nearby Reservation, but I did not fare well in the TC. I’m not sure shutting the fuck up wouldn’t have done any good.
NL, have you had a chance to walk across that Whitney bridge?
That was one of my forms of “alternate therapy” there, btw.
Wow – that really helps. A little validtation always lifts the “I must be crazy” cloud.
I’ve often thought that we do race relations in a rather odd way in this community. Don’t know where it comes from, but I think you’re right that it springs from the “Minnesota Nice” atmosphere. It really shuts down asking the tough questions. And my modus operendi is to avoid the superficial easy and go right for the gut-wrenching tough. Which is why I took this opportunity to ask you about this one. There is a lot of pressure in my world to NOT talk like this. So you have as much gratitude as I can send your way for going there with me!!
And no, I haven’t done the Whitney bridge yet – but I promise I will when the arctic air takes a break.
You’re not imagining it.
I used to call it “Minnesota ice”–for the chilling effect it had on race relations there.
When I moved to Chi-town, I said to my hubby, “Wow, black people who smile back at you!”….;-) –hadn’t seen that since last time I was in Africa. (OK, I’m exaggerating, but still….)
That’s when I knew I was home. The mynah bird was right all along. But I’m glad I made that detour through the mini-Apple before I hit the streets o’ my second city!
Whew!
And with that I will definitely stfu, lest I say s.t. that will get me in trouble!
Hang in there and take the advice I got from a tribal elder on the LCO rez over in Hayward: “Just remember, the children will never forget.”
You can give me a call sometime if you ever need to vent about it. Coordinates are at juslilolme.
an overreaction, as are the charges of mental illness if people oppose corporate rule, bigotry, feudalism, the “war on terror,” all those fundamental Amerian values.
Kind of like calling people selfish if they care more about getting their medicine than the career of some corporate lackey politician. Or a whole gaggle of them.
The numbers are just not that large (excluding, as always, the underclass). Anyone who opposes corporate rule et al is already considered a shrill radical fringe, and neither their vote nor their “support” is needed by the Democrats. They are, of course, still invited to send money.
The underclass will find its own way, it does not need the Democrats any more than the Democrats need them.
The underclass needs housing and health care and a Living Wage. The Democrats have speeches and vaporpie in the vaporsky.
The Democrats need devotees who receive a genuine psychological benefit from the speeches and vapor, genuine enough to inspire the hearers to send money.
The underclass is sadly unable to offer them that, so there is really no business opportunity here.
The politicians and their devotees should continue doing what gives them a benefit, perceived or real, and the underclass will do what underclasses have done for thousands of years.
The sting can go both ways. Working with black activists here in New Orleans, and I often find that “white” is the dirty word, and falsehoods are promoted, such as the belief that overwhelmingly, black people have been affected by Katrina.
In sheer numbers, it simply isn’t so. And watching the black power elite of this city participate in the class and ethnic cleansing of this city, I grow tired of analysis from the black, activist community citing race, overwhelmingly, while offering little in the way of class analysis.
In Mississippi, areas of Louisiana outside New Orleans, the total number of affected would definitely include more whites than blacks, and the relatively scant amount of coverage of the destruction in these rural areas has been very unfair, in my view.
And not everyone affected is poor. There are many affluent whites who had the resources to evacuate before the hurricane hit, and did so, and returned to find their homes damaged or gone. If I am not mistaken, one of the prominent politicians of Mississippi lost a home.
The city of NO itself, however, I believe had a majority black population before the hurriane, and the broken levees and resultant flood did most greatly impact neighborhoods whose populations were majority black.
As with any city, non-whites are over-represented in the percentage of poor, and thus it was mostly poor black people who were locked into the shelterpits, left to drown and slow-cooked alive.
Because of US history of slavery and legalized racial apartheid, segregation and discrimination still exists, and as overall poverty has increased, and with it that over-representation, efforts to “frame” Operation Crescent Cleansing in more attractive and equal opportunity terms enjoys more success in some sectors than others, and again, these sectors can be largely broken down along racial lines.
I do not have links, but several “polls” have indicated, for example that affluent whites are more likely to view the levee incidents as either Acts of God or accidents, and less likely to be aware of similar incidents that took place in 1927.
This does not conflict with other non-hurricane related polls and surveys that invariably show that more whites than blacks believe that racial discrimination in the US has greatly reduced in recent decades.
Opinions of people, regardless of their ethnicity, tend to be influenced by their experiences, so it is logical that whites, especially affluent ones, will be less likely than blacks to feel that racial discrimination is not a problem anymore. And affluent people will be more likely to “strongly agree” that anyone in America who works hard will prosper economically. Whites are less likely to have experienced racial discrimination, especially in ways that affected them economically, and in the experience of a white person who has worked hard and prospered may not be as likely to consider what role inborn privilege, whether ethnic and economic, has played in that prosperity.
And I think opinions on Katrina and the governmental decisions made in its aftermath, especially regarding New Orleans, will be no exception.
It is also important to remember that in New Orleans especially, black vs less black division has a three centuries and change history, which is even today reflected in some of the seeming incongruities evident in local government reactions. Back in the day, Nagin, for example, would have been considered a gens de couleur, whereas the people empowered to choose whether to roast or drown would have had a lower status, then as now.
It would appear that the New McOrleans, however, will have a different demographic than it has had traditionally, in the TV footage I have seen, all the party-goers at the “Mardi Gras” celebration (now with corporate sponsors!) appear to be Caucasian, though I did note that some black high school marching bands were permitted to be in the parade. Caucasians have always enjoyed these “high stepping” bands, and even during the years of racial apartheid it was not unusual for some of the most accomplished to be invited to entertain in the white holiday parades. All the man in the street interviews I have seen with the party-goers are very positive, the new ambience is seen as more comfortable, pleasant, and family-friendly. In my opinion, both politicians and developers will be both pleased and encouraged. It looks like things are working out very well for them.
Ductape, you can’t believe anything you see on tv: esp not tens of thousands of 99.9% black people ‘loitering’ π in the superdome or the convention center w/o food and water.
Look, racism is over when white people say it is.
Now, they have told us and keep telling us there is no racism in this country–we buried that old hatchet when we buried MLK, or was it when we buried Rosa Parks, no, I guess it was when Condi became Sec of State–at any rate, racism is so “yesterday.”
So just get with the program here and let’s all ‘move on’ together: there is NO racism, esp not against blacks, in this country.
Anyone who contends differently is imagining it.
I often think these days about a recent conversation I had with a black man I work with who grew up in New Orleans. He left the city long before Katrina – went to Duluth, MN for college on a basketball scholarship. Imagine that – from NO to Duluth!!! When I talked to him about that, the words he said haunt me. He told me that he looked around at his friends and what was happening to them in NO. And he realized that if he was going to survive, he had to GET OUT.
On reflection, I can’t get it out of my mind that our country is producing refugees from our urban areas. There is a real “third world” quality to it all.
Actually, one of the things that is seriously affecting the city I live in is the influx of refugees. Some are from Asia and Africa – but a lot of them are from Chicago, Detroit, etc. The tensions this creates in our community are numerous – but my point here is that the United States of America is producing urban refugees on an astounding level. Whether its race, class or a collusion of many forces not yet even named is beyond me. But lets wake up and see what’s happening in our cities.
Yes, and it was one reason I, for example, was pretty adamant about describing Katrina victims not as “evacuees” but as “refugees.”
Mpls was the first major US city I experienced after returning from 10 yrs abroad, some of that time spent in Africa.
I was shocked–completely and totally–by the parallels I was seeing between third world countries and the conditions for the poor in that city: that was in 1993.
At this point, it’s a amazing how many refugees from 3rd world countries come here expecting to buy into the “American dream” or at least improve their quality of life by moving to America, only to discover that, in many ways, if you’re going to be “poor and black”, you may have a better shot at survival in Africa. Certainly proved to be the case for Amadou Diallo, the 22 yr old Guinean immigrant who took 41 bullets for engaging in the highly suspicious behavior of standing outside the door of his residence in NYC.
But, seriously, if Katrina didn’t make clear exactly what you are saying: that we are now de facto producing our own “home grown refugees”–I don’t know what will.
I guess the best we can do is just what you’re doing: be aware of it, and do whatever you can to help–even though it may sometimes feel like attempting to re-attach a severed limb with a Band-Aid ™!
If you have changed even one corner in the city of St. Paul, you have changed the world.
This is about the weirdest diary/thread I’ve seen on Booman in the entire history of the site.
I’m a patient person and I read a lot but I can’t even make it through the endless monologue there at the top. I read just half.
Seems to me like all of this could be said in less words.
If someone wants to call Boo racist, then say he’s racist. I haven’t seen any evidence of it, but if that’s what you want to say then quite the bloviation.
Shooting Boo in the foot on his own site seems a little weird to me. Seems like you’d just say your piece and move on to another place if you really think he’s so awful. I wouldn’t sit here myself if I thought he was promoting a racist or bigoted agenda.
All I know is I wish most Americans could spend a week in Romania. Here all the racism is between Hungarians and Romanians, whom all of you would classify as the “same race”, i.e. “white”. The reason I say this is because racism has nothing to do with skin color or physical attributes. You could not tell a Hungarian apart from a Romanian by looking at them.
Racism is ALWAYS about friction between cultures, where one culture is seem as inferior to another. Racism itself is a facet of culture itself, taught to individuals and not something inherited in their genes.
So when there is friction or “ten thousand insults” a day or whatever the heckfire this dispute is about, then it must be understood that it has nothing to do with physical attributes and instead has to do with how different cultural values are expressed.
That sounds like a piddling distinction but its not. I personally dislike most sports and regularly ridicule people who love them, which is mostly soccer here in Europe. I’m not going to live long enough to want to spend 2 hours watching grown men chase a ball around a field.
I am not being sensitive to the culture of sports-lovers but at the same time my comments are not based on hate for those who love sports. Got it?
If someone makes comments you find offensive, then you find them offensive. But for it to rise to the level of racism, it has to be based on actual hate for the culture. And if you’re telling me Boo hates any race then I’ll eat my hat.
Pax
Brilliant, Soj. “I didn’t read the post, but I’m going to take Booman’s word for it: you’re calling him a racist.”
FYI: I’ve never made it through any one of your diaries, either.
We do agree on one thing: I, too, would love to see most Americans spend at least a week (preferably, at least a year) anywhere outside this country.
Sure would help make me look like less of a “nutcase” to most Americans. π
This cookie-cutter, monocultural brand of “diversity” is just killin’ me.
I’m not taking anyone’s word for anything except your own. I told you I only read half of it, so it’s not like I’m acting like some kind of expert in whatever this is about.
So why don’t you tell me? Is Boo racist? I mean did I miss it or what?
And it’s ok if you don’t read all my diaries. Heck you think you’re the first person to find them too long and pedantic? Haha get in line!
They’re quite long but that’s on purpose. Sometimes the issues are complicated and need a lot of documentation. I got in a heck of a lot water the other week for not “showing my work” as my old math teacher used to say.
I’m gonna tell it to you straight – I still don’t know what this fussing is even about. It seems to be pretty straightforward – if Boo is a racist, say he is and be done with it. If he’s not, then I’m completely lost as to what you’re saying.
BTW, Romania is even more of a monoculture than America is or was. They are more ironclad in their beliefs than any city or region in America, that’s for sure. It’s just the hatred and distrust here isn’t directed towards people “of color” because there aren’t any.
Pax
Yeah, I think you missed it Soj. So you haven’t read the diary or the comments and still don’t get it–well, maybe it’s time to move on. But I’m certainly not going to repeat myself yet one more time.
C’est la vie.
Live and let live.
You don’t have to love me, really you don’t, you don’t even have to like me and no one is begging you to go back and read the diary–not now, not ever.
I love America AND I left it. For what it’s worth.
Pax
Sometimes it is fear born of ignorance, sometimes it is plain ignorance, and sometimes it is merely an ingrained value that is not really analyzed, often so deep that it not even realized, much less acknowledged or thought about.
And while I am aware of national divisions in Europe and elsewhere, I don’t think that it is accurate to compare those situations with the black-white racial divide in the US.
It was only about 150 years ago that slavery in the US was reframed, and only 50 years ago that apartheid was de-legalized.
That’s not a very long time, even for the US, and certainly not for Europe, which has a much longer history. Remember the US is a place where if a building is 100 years old, it is declared a historic site and plaques put up π
As your European examples will confirm, social change, which is really just emotional change writ large, takes time.
In the US today, there is not only the black-white divide, but new wrinkles. Black people are no longer the largest ethnic minority. Latin Americans are. And American blacks had better get to reproducing or they are going to be bumped down again, to number 3, as more and more Asians come to the US. There is a major demographic shift taking place now in the US, as there is in Europe.
In one sense, racism in the US is not as simple as it once was, when almost everybody the average American would encounter in their lifetime was either Euromerican or Afro-American. (New York and San Francisco were always the exceptions)
Today, white Americans not only have the mission, if they choose to accept it, of sorting out their feelings about black people, but also analyzing just how they feel about Latin Americans, Asians, and of course, Arabs. The latter group, which would inaccurately include many people who are actually from Asia or Latin America, so let us say people perceived as “Arabs” may receive the brunt of hatred, but usually even this will not be hatred, just not seeing the people as human, but for most black people, the racism they encounter will not.
Not all white racists are like the three young men in Texas who dragged Mr. Byrd behind a truck till he was dead. And the argument could be made that even that was not hatred, they simply did not consider him to be human.
And in a milder form, this is what more blacks are likely to encounter, whites not considering that they might have feelings to be hurt, for example, or just not having the ability to extrapolate and empathize with experiences that they have not had.
spot on, as usual.
You are very right about the changing demographics and new wrinkles, and about racism being more rooted in fear born of ignorance.
At this point, there seems to be a general frenzy of “xenophobia” and fear of ANYTHING that does not come straight from the strip mall and cannot be packaged into the ticky-tacky little houses of “thought” and “custom” Americans have established for themselves–even if you speak a foreign language in this country, you might be viewed as suspect.
I always find it interesting when I have visitors from Africa, most of whom have grown up in an environment that is at least tri-lingual and usually includes at least one major European language (English, French or German).
Anecdote: Few years back, I was doing a major trade show with an African businessman who is fluent in French and in German, but whose native tongue is Wolof. The language we have in common is German. So we were talking, standing in line at some fast food joint in Atlanta.
This ditzy white woman (also a vendor at the show) is looking at us like we’d just landed from Mars. Of course, nothing we were doing would have been in any way ‘conspicuous’ in any other industrialized country in the world: we were simply having a conversation in the one language available to us for communication, a language that was native to neither of us. Perfectly normal, run-of-the-mill shit that makes you feel like an alien invader ONLY in this country.
So she keeps staring at us, eavesdropping, and finally asks, “What language are you speaking?”
“German,” I say.
“What?” she says.
“German.”
“huh?”
“German.”
“What? I never heard of that language.”
I look at her in disbelief and said “German. Sprechen Sie Deutsch?”
The point being, her preconceived notions about this guy who was obviously from Africa (he happened to be dressed in traditional garb) simply would not allow her to grasp the notion that he was speaking a ‘sophisticated’ European language. The assumption was that I, the sophisticated ‘Euroamerican’ (in cognito), must have been clever enough to learn the intricacies of some obscure African tribal language–certainly there is no way that African guy could have had the sophistication, intellect and wherewithal to pick up such a notoriously ‘heavy’ European language as GERMAN of all things.
Probably would have been easier to just tell her we were speaking Swahili or something.
Or how bout this: “Language? Oh…we’re speaking African!” π
I’m sure she meant no offense. But these kinds of ‘little things’ do tend to grate on you after awhile: like, lady, will you just mind your own fucking business and leave us alone!? Why do you have to stare at us, and then have the audacity to interrupt our conversation, as if we’re having it for your benefit!
I get the same kind of stares and intrusive commentary about my cigarettes (I smoke hand-rolled Samson, and have done so for the last 20 yrs or so, ever since I picked it up while living in Germany). They look at you like you’re from fucking Mars.
Yeah. Little shit. Minor shit. No offense intended.
But if I wanted to have every little aspect of my slightly “unconventional” lifestyle on exhibit, I’d have opened a museum or joined the circus, for chrissake.
Oh Stark, sometimes you are just too adorable for words. . .thanks for the good chuckle.
Please take this in the light-hearted and frivelous manner it is intended, and I will tell you the solution I came up with in order to save my sanity.
People have always stared at me and felt they could and should evesdrop on my private conversations with others in public. Since I couldn’t abide constantly being upset or angry about this, and I got tired of trying to shove it down to the “unintended” place, I changed my perception. . .I wrote a new story line: People just can’t help being fascinated by me, a beautiful and powerful gay woman whose conversations are so intriguing they can’t help listening in and wanting to be a part of them. LOL. . .really LOL. . .I just decided to make it so. And so it has been ever since.
Just my humorous way to deal with inexplicable rudeness, not suggesting that you or anyone do as I have done, but it has done wonders for me and how I view these stupid situations.
Carry on woman. . .I’m getting it. . .and I am another who is greatful for the information about the author.
Hugs
Shirl
Sometimes I feel discriminated against, but it does not make me angry. It merely astonishes me. How can anyone deny themselves the pleasure of my company? It’s beyond me.
I knew I learned that somewhere! Although I came up with my solution before I was aware of our beautiful Zora. . .no doubt I followed some magical engery lines she had already laid out.
Thanks Ductape!
your comment reminded me so much of that quote of hers that I just had to post it! π
HEHEHEHEHEHE. . .now I am really chuckling. . .
It reminded me that as an overly dramatic teen, I once gave a fleeting thought to suicide. . .which caused me to laugh even then, and I said. . .”Nope, I wouldn’t dream of depriving this world of my presence.”
Every day it seems I get turned on to some new author. I’ll have to check this Robinson cat out.
Anyhoo…I tend to view boilerplate comments like “you need therapy”, “get help”, “call a hotline” ad nauseum as a sort of cop-out. It’s code for “your ideas or actions are too far outside my comfort zone, so shut up, stop it.” There really is no more depth than that. People who espouse radical beliefs or live unconvential lifestyles hear the “get therapy” line all the time. Funny thing is (I’ll base this on the circles I’ve hung out in since my youth), the radicals are typically the sane ones.
As I have stated repeatedly, it was the violation of Benjamin’s Law π that I took objection with. And I agree with your interpretation of it as “code” (in my more ‘charitable’ reading [upthread] I called it the ‘retort of last resort.’)
But I’m glad at least 2 posters here have benefitted from the information about Robinson (actually, 3, I include myself) and at least one (Madman in the M) appreciated the nuance of the “rhetoric”.
While I was putting together the links, and even to this moment, I’m sitting here thinking: here we all are complaining that there is no “vocal left” in this country, there is far too little dissent, etc., and yet, not a one of us–myself included–was even familiar with this guy, his writing, his work–despite the fact that he’s been on the major networks and in the ‘alternative news,’ an active civil rights activist since the 1970s. His books have been national bestsellers.
I wonder if that has anything to do with a general tendency in this country to classify radical thinkers as nutcases.
Get a therapist?
I say, better yet: get an advanced degree.