Open Thread

16 Comments

1. 

   wilfred on March 17, 2006 at 10:12 am

   Then support the censure Harry!

   • 

     Denim Blue on March 17, 2006 at 11:12 am

     AMEN!!  Get off your duff, Harry, and at least try to take this mad-man and his cohorts out.

2. 

   Kahli on March 17, 2006 at 10:18 am

   Give ’em hell, Harry! And then think about how history will look at the Congress that refused to stand up to the “worst president this country has ever had.”

3. 

   boilerman10 on March 17, 2006 at 10:23 am

   Good morning.

   Friedman has something hidden behind the wall at the NYT.

   What is this wishy-washy nincompoop blubbering about now?  oh, I forgot, how rude of me….Friedman is a well traveled, wishy washy, nincompoop.

   From the header, his gist seems to be that we need our daily Iraq.  Is this the full thrust?

   Well, Bush lied, the troops die, and as Steve Gilliard points out, Chimpy’s military bootlickers are recreating Vietnam in the desert.

   I don’t need Friedman to tell me this.  

   • 

     cotterperson on March 17, 2006 at 10:27 am

     Here’s a lot of it:

     Right now, the natural antipathy and competition between Iraqi Arabs and Iranian Persians — even though large numbers of both are Shiite Muslims — have been muted because of the U.S. occupation of Iraq. Both sides can focus their anger on us.

     But as soon as we leave — and you can bet the house and kids on this — the natural rivalry between Iraqi Arabs and Iranian Persians will surface. Culture, history and nationalism matter. Iran and Iraq did not fight a war for eight years by mistake, or just because Saddam was in power. Once America is out of Iraq, it will not be a winning political strategy for any Iraqi politician to be known as “pro-Iranian” or, even worse, as an instrument of Tehran’s.

     If we were out of Iraq today and Iran had to manage the chaos there, on its border, it would be a huge, energy-draining problem for Tehran. Iraqis, in case you haven’t noticed, have a rather violent, independent streak. Anyone who thinks Iraq is some overripe fruit that will fall into Iran’s lap as soon as we leave, and obediently stay there, doesn’t know Iraq or Iran. Iraqi Arab Shiites did not wait for centuries to rule Iraq in order to turn it over to Iranian Persian Shiites. Not a chance.

     In their superb, must-read, military history of the U.S. invasion of Iraq, “Cobra II,” Michael Gordon and Bernard Trainor explain why Saddam always wanted to keep the world in doubt about his W.M.D., even when his cupboard was bare: it was to deter Iran. ….

     So getting out of Iraq would be a good anti-Iran strategy. Succeeding in Iraq would be even better. The one strategy that won’t work for us, but would be ideal for Iran, would be for U.S. troops to remain in Iraq as bleeding sitting ducks, baby-sitting a stalemate and absorbing everyone’s wrath — including the wrath that would naturally be directed at Tehran.

     • 

       BooMan on March 17, 2006 at 11:52 am

       On the whole, I think Friedman is correct about this.  But it is a lot more complicated than he makes it seem.

     • 

       boilerman10 on March 18, 2006 at 12:30 am

       Thank you very much.

       But Freidman is not one of my favorites, due to his panegyrics for the war before the invasion.

4. 

   JanetT in MD on March 17, 2006 at 10:23 am

   Yeah, exactly.  Calling him the “worst president this country has ever had” doesn’t mean squat if he doesn’t vote for censure.

   Come on, Senator. Make a statement that COUNTS for something.

5. 

   rumi on March 17, 2006 at 10:29 am

     I would agree except I don’t think he’s won a presidential election yet. That will be the ultimate defense he could present at any future serious trial.

6. 

   Cali Scribe on March 17, 2006 at 12:10 pm

   Hope everyone is ready to get their year’s quota of fat and sodium in their corned beef and cabbage tonight…and remember, friends don’t let their friends drink green beer…

7. 

   diane101 on March 17, 2006 at 12:22 pm

   Has anyone watched the documentary about John Lennon and his FBI surveillance and file, especially regarding the whole Vietnam protest movement….I was aghast at the whole thing and it brought back many memories of those days and shows the promise of things to come with the FBI and our nations protestors…promise was not meant in a good way.  It was on the history channel last night and I think it has run several times prior to this.

   • 

     BooMan on March 17, 2006 at 12:27 pm

     These are the lyrics of Fingerprint File, the Stones answer to the spying of that era:

     (M. Jagger/K. Richards)

     Fingerprint file, you get me down
     You keep me running
     Know my way around. Yes, you do, child
     Fingerprint file, you bring me down
     Keep me running
     You keep me on the ground
     Know my moves
     Way ahead of time
     Listening to me
     On your satellite

     Feeling followed
     Feeling tagged
     Crossing water
     Trying to wipe my tracks

     And there’s some little jerk in the FBI
     A keepin’ papers on me six feet high
     It gets me down, it gets me down, it gets me down

     You better watch out
     On your telephone
     Wrong number
     They know you ain’t home

     And there’s some little jerk in the FBI
     A keepin’ papers on me six feet high
     It gets me down, it gets me down, it gets me down

     Who’s the man on the corner; that corner over there
     I don’t know. Well, you better lay low. Watch out

     Keep on the look out
     Electric eyes
     Rats on the sell out
     Who gonna testify
     You know my habits
     Way a head of time
     Listening to me
     On your satellite

     And there’s some little jerk in the FBI
     A keepin’ papers on me six feet high
     It gets me down, it gets me down, it gets me down
     It gets me down

     Hello, baby, mm-hmm
     Ah, yeah, you know we ain’t, we ain’t talkin’ alone
     Who’s listening? Well I don’t really know
     But you better tell the SIS to keep out of sight
     ‘Cause I know they takin’ pictures on the ultraviolet light
     Yes, uh huh, yeah, but these days it’s all secrecy; no privacy
     Shoot first, that’ s right… you know
     Bye bye.
     Right now somebody is listening to…… you
     Keeping their eyes peeled…… on you
     Mmm, mmm, what a price, what a price to pay
     All right. Good night, sleep tight

     • 

       diane101 on March 17, 2006 at 12:32 pm

       At one piont the lyrics to some of Lennon’s songs were classified by the FBI, but he still continued to sing the classified song….That sounds so funny when I write that but no kidding they recorded all the words spoken and sung at the protests by agents in the audience.  They tried to deport him for the previous marijuana conviction in England, he fought back, don’t know for sure if that was resolved before he was killed and now I am suspicious of the whole murder thing.
       The parallels to today are simply chilling…I rec. watching the documentary…
       The whole Tom Hayden thing was interesting to see again, and where is he now btw.

       • 

         dada on March 17, 2006 at 12:46 pm

         Hayden’s still rattling around out there in your neck of the woods Diane.  Involved in the “No More Sweatshops” coalition and various anti-war groups.

         Tom Hayden still livin’ the good life.

         Peace

         • 

           diane101 on March 17, 2006 at 12:57 pm

           Thanks for the link Dada, he used to be on our local news all the time, during his tenure in office, now we never hear anything about him.  Of course he is getting up in years now….like many of us.  But we do hold the memories of those years and can very easily equate them to now.  Visions of things to come too.

   • 

     dada on March 17, 2006 at 1:45 pm

     Psychics to try contacting Lennon in TV seance

     Elvis has left the building.

     You can’t make this shit up…

     Peace