Today’s Hot Topic: Immigrant students and their impact on the education level of other students.
One of the more interesting conversations that came out of the SoCal meet-up was on immigration issues. With the BT expert on hand…Man Eegee…lots of questions were posed and lots of ideas discussed. We were way too short on time (several months probably!) to cover all the questions. This diary is one of the first to come from the meetup.
The topic of immigration on education was brought up. One of the biggest concerns that many in California have, and the rest of the U.S., is the impact on immigrants on the education of the english speaking students. The schools are having to address this issue of English as a Second Language (ESL) on a daily basis. So I’m opening this discussion based on the following questions:
1. What impact do non-English speaking students have on education?
2. How many non-English speaking students are in the California schools?
3. How many of the non-English speaking students are immigrants?
These questions are being posed across the country. How we have or haven’t dealt with them in California will directly impact the rest of the nation. See California’s lessons on immigration, Peter Shrag, Boston Globe, April 2, 2006
An interesting California statistics – extrapolated from the PPIC Research Brief sited below:
Number and location of EL (English Learner) students, Fall 2003
Region % of EL Students
Bay Area 21.2
Central Coast 30.4
Far North 10.3
Inland Empire 22.2
Sacramento Metro 16.5
San Diego 26.0
San Joaquin Valley 25.6
Sierras 2.6
South Coast 33.0
Total (Note) 26.4
(Note): Total was calculated by diarist – and if someone can help with alignment I’d appreciate it!
A further quote from the same research brief: “A commonly held belief is that EL students have limited English skills because they are recent immigrants. However, most EL students (85%) are born in the United States of immigrant parents.”
What ideas do we as progressives have to address the concerns regarding education and the schools?
Some parameters and rules:
The primary focus this issue / discussion is as a Californian – with it’s corresponding impact on Arizona.
Living in California it is a given that a substantial portion of our population has an immigrant background or status.
Statistics wherever possible will be directly linked…rather than to a news article.
This is a learning exercise for a lot of us. Be patient with other’s questions and concerns.
This is a framing exercise as well. We need to understand the issues of those in favor or radical immigration laws and learn to fight them with information and facts.
I will add more parameters to direct the flow if necessary…this is a volatile issue…and we need to learn how to talk about it.
– – – –
Some background links on the organizations that I use for research and reading material – think tank stuff!
Education Commission of the States
ECS GOALSProvide a nonpartisan forum to address critical state education policy issues, encouraging interchange among diverse people with disparate points of view.
Deliver accurate, objective, timely and useful information that supports effective decisions about state education policy.
Conduct state education policy analysis to identify effective policy options, emphasizing evidence of results.
Provide expert assistance to state leaders in their work to develop and implement education policy and to evaluate its impact.
Exercise leadership in identifying the cutting edge of education policy, enabling state leaders to think, plan and act beyond current issues and current solutions.
Collaborate when appropriate with other organizations that share ECS values and goals.
Communicate effectively about the importance and results of education reform and about strategies for public involvement and political change.
Develop and sustain an organization that is nonpartisan, informed, future-oriented, responsive, financially healthy, accountable, technologically advanced, effective in collaboration, and astute with regard to both the substance and the process of constructive change.
Bilingual/ESL Links from ECS.org Lots and lots of reading stuff at this site.
For some specific information on ESL in CA and statistics the next site to check out is the Public Policy Institute of California. This is another non-partisan think tank on California issues.
Public Policy Institute of California
About the Insitute A brief excerptThe Public Policy Institute of California (PPIC) is a private, nonprofit organization dedicated to improving public policy in California through independent, objective, nonpartisan research. The institute was established in 1994 with an endowment from William R. Hewlett.
Research focuses on three program areas: population, economy, and governance and public finance. Studies within these programs examine the underlying forces shaping California’s future, cutting across a wide range of public policy concerns: California in the global economy; demography; education; employment and income; environment, growth, and infrastructure; government and public finance; health and social policy; immigrants and immigration; key sectors in the California economy; and political participation.
The Progress of English Learners in CA Schools, Public Policy Institute of California, April 2005 pdf file
There is too much potential for calling racist and other terms in this diary and discussion.
This is a needed discussion…so I’m calling on everyone to help keep this smooth.
Thanks
This is a talking point only – something to start a dialogue!
A white parent in a predominantly integrated school district (greater than 50% non-white) is concerned about the number of non-English speakers in the school.
People should be happy their schools have different cultures. They should be supporting “Diversity without Division”.
Know what is bring down our children’s education? Really want to know? Lack of funding. Period.
One more thing, too. My rant. What makes a school great? It’s not the mixture of kids or lack of – it’s the involvement of the parents. That can make or break a school – especially now in these unfunded times.
Bi-lingual kids bringing down education? I call BS on that. Because for so many years my son was pointed as being the cause of slowing down class study time.
Last year it was gay people are going to destroy our values, now it’s immigrant children.
Wars should be illegal – NOT HUMANS.
😀
Totally agree Janet…
My local schools are some of the best in the area and are mostly working class and diverse families. The reason they are so good is the total community involvement. That involvement includes families whose kids are long since graduated from the schools and young families with kids a few years away from entering the classroom.
Our diversity is about 30% hispanic, 45% white and 15% other…
Actually, Marin schools are not “best in area”.. they are just about the best in the NATION. 🙂
So many parents are literally “drop off” parents. They drop their kids off at school and that is their involvement.
That is why one church group can ruin an entire library for a school because the parents whose kids attend that school.. don’t know and don’t help out.
It takes a village to support a school – it takes just one village idiot to hurt a school.
Actually mine are some of the best in Marin – pretty damn great!
These are not drop off parents…which is what makes it work.
It really does take a community…and our village is there at every school meeting. We know every school board member by hello at meetings and by site, if not by talking directly with them.
Aaacck…and I can’t type today. That should be 25% other…including Black, Asian, Indian, and Middle Eastern.
Darn, I was involved in this conversation and really want to contribute, but my computer at work died and I cannot access the internet. So, I only have a couple of minutes before I have to leave.
First off, this issue is not about respecting diversity in schools. I completely love the diversity in my kid’s schools. It is why I stay in Oakland, CA, rather than move to an all white neighborhood with all white kids. Those schools have their own problems.
Sally’s chart above shows that one in four kids do not speak English at home. One in four! That is huge. I don’t have time to track down the actual numbers, but I can safely say that in my daughter’s elementary school, the ethnic breakdown was 75% Asian, 12% Hispanic, 10% African-American, and 3% Caucasian. More than 50% did not speak English in the home. For the record, she was one of the 3%. My daughter just told me that the school either had 2 volunteers or paid specialists that would help out in the younger grades with these kids. That made a huge difference, but it is not always the case.
When a teacher has to repeat over and over, use simple words, etc., you can’t tell me that doesn’t effect the learning environment and hold back those kids who are fluent.
As for parental involvement, I was active in the PTA. Even though the vast majority of the school was Asian, the vast majority of the PTA was Caucasian. Why? Because the Asian parents were not fluent enough to participate. We tried for years to get someone who could translate, and we did manage to get people on and off. This helped, but it was really not all that effective in getting real participation from non-English speaking families.
In my daughter’s current school, located in downtown Oakland, the ethnic breakdown is somewhat different. It is something like 60% African-American, 25% Hispanic and 15% other. Yet, once again, when I went to the last Board meeting to support a parent group trying to get a parent on the Board, virtually all of the parents there were Caucasian. The same is almost true of the PTA, though not quite as pronounced.
I am not saying this to denigrate people of color. I am merely pointing out my observations. I don’t know why this is the case and I am not happy about it.
This is not about forcing people to give up their native language or culture. I think we can all agree that knowing multiple languages and being exposed to multiple languages and cultures is a positive thing.
Sally, when you talk about your Italian friend learning English the hard way, keep in mind that in many parts of the US, it is possible to never learn English. There are entire communities here where the only place kids learn English is in the schools. Their parents don’t speak it, their friends don’t speak it, the shopkeepers and neighbors don’t speak it. So, what we are facing is a large number of kids who literally have no where else to learn English except in the school. This goes for people who speak Spanish, Mandarin, and yes, even, Ebonics. People laughed at Oakland’s move to treat Ebonics as a second language, but after having my kid in a school where most of the kids speak it, I can tell you, I’m not laughing anymore. It really is a very different dialect of English. I’m delighted that my kid is learning it, but once again, you can’t tell me this does not effect the classes. At the same time, California voted to do away with Bi-lingual education. I think this was a huge mistake. We cannot be holding back the education of non-English speaking kids while they struggle with the language. If schools are where most of these kids learn English, then we need solid programs that help these kids.
Whew…sorry for the rambling nature and typos. I am writing on the fly and now I have to run to work. Hopefully my computer will be fixed today and I can get back on to rejoin the conversation.
Thanks Sally for starting the dialog. You did an excellent job!
Thanks for taking the time to get this comment in. I, too, hope your computer is fixed so you can contribute more! I appreciate your insights and experiences.
of becoming bilingual because of these migrants. In some communities I myself have seen children as young as five or six learning words and phrases in three or four different languages!
These migrants constitute an existential threat to the American way of life and monolingualism.
I’m presuming that is snark DF…or part of the talking points.
My personal view is that bi-lingual or multi-lingual will make our children a greater asset in the world community.
I’ve grown as a human due to hockey. I’ve leaned some French.
Mostly swear words but.. still… growth is growth. 🙂
Most of us simply accept:
– Our street names and cities are Hispanic names…
Shouldn’t we change them to Elm, or Maple, or Main?
– Our food choices are as diverse as the world and we can pronounce Asian or Middle Eastern or Mexican dishes?
Shouldn’t we banish these restaurants and only have coffee shops serving hamburgers?
Being snarky here…but the issue is the same as your hockey French. What do we say to those that would say yes to my two questions here?
ACK!!! That would mean no more margaritas and no more tequila!!!
Excuse my “French” but “fuck that” 🙂
And… wouldn’t we have to toss out the Kama Sutra?
about what to say to people who think changing names from anything other than English back..
For one thing English is a mutt language. It’s begged, borrowed and stolen it’s words from ALL OVER, so we’d have to change our language entirely… but then again some Bush supporters swear we speak, “American”…
I would first challenge the “Purists” because that is what we are talking about here right?? I’d challenge them to toss out their bibles first. After all, those damn things were NOT written in English… or “Uhmerican”. If they want to kneel down and lov their Lord, well shit they’d better learn to read in Hebrew or Laten or whatever… because they sure haven’t learned from the language of LOVE.
That is an absolutely terrific response…let’s translate things back to the original languages!
A dynamic woman I know, I first generation born to the U.S. Her parents were immigrants from Sicily. She grew up bi-lingual and at a time when the schools did not teach ESL for any language.
This woman learned English the hard way…from neighbors and schools that only spoke English.
She recently retired after 30+ years as a respected prosecuting attorney. She was an elected official and knows politicians from the local level to Barbara Boxer. She is still a major community leader.
Back to talking points
If she can do it without English in the schools – why can’t new immigrants or new first generation U.S. non-English speakers?
That is the hard way. Some kids thrive on challenges. Others are easily discouraged. And trying to understand a lesson taught in a language you only half-understand can be very discouraging; so is being held back a grade because you couldn’t do well enough in that language to pass the spelling and math and reading classes.
If the majority of kids entering the school system who are not English-speaking were actually born here, it sounds like we need to put some focus on early-childhood language programs. The younger a child is, the easier it is for them to pick up another language. And if those programs involved parents or other family members, it could help the adults as well — both in their own English skills (which are going to be at varying levels already), and in supporting the kids. Probably you need an assortment of programs, to reach as many kids and families as possible — everything from television/video series to before/after-school and Head Start-type things. An all-day summer program for kids about to enter kindergarten or first grade.
To succeed academically in the US, you need an English proficiency. And the schools are going to be a big part of that — or they should be. But I think the process has to start before the child enters school, if at all possible — when their ability to pick up new language skills is at its sharpest, and to allow them to find a more level playing field when they hit first grade.
Otherwise you have kids who spend their first year in school having to play catch-up just to understand what the teacher is saying — never mind actually learning to read, write, handle math and everything else. If the teacher is bilingual, that’s a help, but we can’t guarantee that.
Personally, I think all American kids should be learning at least one foreign language in school too — starting in elementary school, as they do in Europe. But that’s a different tangent on this kind of discussion.
Here in CA we have had such huge budget issues the last few years. One of the things that the Governor, and legislature did, was reduce funding to school programs. When the money was supposed to come back, only half did. The two biggest areas of non-English speakers are inner city and rural farm districts. Neither area has funds for programs.
With limited funding how can the schools handle these early childhood programs?
Thanks SallyCat for introducing this topic – the discussions you all had this past weekend must have been wonderful!
I would add the No Child Left Behind testing and the consequences of “poor” scores have many concerned. I don’t know about testing requirements for ESL students, but from what I have heard from friends in the field, it is very difficult to get any exemptions or modifications for any kiddo taking the test.
School test scores are published in the local paper. I noted schools that are meeting the testing goals are called “Adequate.” This is the term used by the Education Department. Subtle smack down, imo — do you want your kid attending an “adequate” public school or a private school advertising itself as “excellent?”
The pressure of this testing on schools serving communities living at poverty levels is horrendous. One of the additional challenges for these schools is the instability of the population – families come and go. It can be difficult to do any kind of assessing of instruction, methods and materials, because the kids who began in the fall are not necessarily the same kids at the end of the school year.
In the book, The Millionaire Next Door, the major factor in choosing a house was the quality of the local public school. The “on their way to becoming a millionaire” folks recognized paying taxes to support the public schools was cheaper than paying for private college prep schools.
DJ said it well, “Lack of funding.” (Or was it French – “Fuck that?”)
In California this combination is a horrendous problem.
Since 2001 (see full study by PPIC through the links) California has implemented the “California English Language Development Test”. Students that do not speak in English at home are required to take the CELDT each year until they are fluent in English. NCLB also mandates improvement in students grasp of English.
The PPIC study goes on to describe how students that need to improve in English are required to take the remainder of the academic NCLB tests – in English! So the students and schools are graded on the number of students improving in English and on the level of improvement in academics.
Based on newspaper articles the past few years the results are counterproductive. To achieve higher results in the academic side, there has been a downward trend in the number of ESL students taking the NCLB tests. The schools are pushing the non-English speaking students out of their ‘numbers’ to improve overall academic rating. This just pushes up the drop out rate for non-whites.
Oh SallyCat – I so badly want Bush to have to take the English proficiency test! And to have the scores published far and wide – front pages everywhere!
The effects of all this testing have have been devastating in so many ways. Manipulation of data is one facet. The whole atmosphere of a school can become less welcoming to new students.
One of the questions that came up shortly after the arrival of Katrina’s refugees in Texas was whether the test scores of the kids newly accepted into communities would be “counted” with the “locals.” The answer was yes. It wouldn’t surprise me if some communities became less welcoming.
I say cut funding for Bush till he can learn English 🙂
I like the links you put together to discuss this.
I’m not convinced that the immigrant population from Mexico is unwilling to learn English, it’s just that the funding and infrastructure surrounding ESL programs is grossly underfunded (along with the rest of the education system). HR4437, Sensenbrenner’s bill put a huge chill in the atmosphere of ESL program across the country. A friend of mine is an instructor in the D.C. area and she can’t believe the drop in numbers of people attending, they are scared. The fear doesn’t discriminate between legal and illegal immigrants. There is a sense that it’s “open season” on them right now. While tens of thousands have been pouring into the streets for marches and rallies, there are mulitiples of that still in the shadow, afraid to go outside except for necessities.
Wrt classroom problems, this is a symptom of the larger issue of Every Child Left Behind. Lofty goals that require torrents of cash were given a spittling. It is criminal how low we pay our teachers, yet cheer on professional athletes for striking because they didn’t get an extra million or five for this year’s season. In Arizona, the state legislature was in a deadlock on how to deal with the English Language Learner program, resulting in millions of dollars worth of fines.
I’m looking for a link to the study, but I read that by the third generation, children have completely absorbed English. I can attest to the real-life breakdown of that, on my mom’s side of the family both great-grandparents were from Mexico and by the time my mom’s generation was born, they not only spoke English, but many of them lost their grasp of Spanish (another problem altogether).
Sorry for the rambling.
There’s a balance to strike here that is difficult. I think we can all agree that funding is inadequate for the entire educational system, but beyond that, what else needs to happen?
I agree with the frustration expressed by some parents; there is a responsibility on the shoulders of all who don’t speak the English language to learn it if they are here in the U.S. What can we do as liberals/progressives, to push for policies and structure that help that happen more successfully in the future?
We have passed required funding levels for our schools here in CA via propositions. But then we get a budget crisis and Schwarzenegger pulling the strings. As I indicated to Janet above the funding was cut and then only half came back. The number of school districts that are either bankrupt or vergining on bankruptcy in the state is too high.
Funding is one thing…and fiscal management is another.
One of the things we as progressives can do is become involved in our local school districts. We can run for school board. These are not full time positions and we can get involved and run for public office. Local districts, walking our own neighborhoods, understanding what our neighbors need and will help us build.
me recently that “It takes a village” 🙂
It’s so true, as a society the comprehensive support structures of the past have seemingly erroded. My parents were engaged in my education from start to finish, but they were the exception.
Now, for a parent who is engaged and finding themselves banging their heads against the wall, I think your suggestion of walking neighbors/organizing meetups and running for school board are fantastic. If time is a constraint due to the heavy burden of Bush’s disastrous economy, there are still ways to be involved by keeping regular contact with teachers and having those simple, “how did your day go, what do you like/dislike about your school” conversations with your child and then addressing those concerns with administrators.
I think the most important fact is:
A commonly held belief is that EL students have limited English skills because they are recent immigrants. However, most EL students (85%) are born in the United States of immigrant parents.”
To me this says the crux of the problem comes down to early education. What are Californias policies on Headstart, government funded Pre-K etc. These programs are in place for this very reason. I live in a very diverse school district, evenly split between black, white and latino. The district has always provided “free” pre-K for all children in order to help assure that they get the help needed to enter their educational careers on a somewhat even footing.
This has always been a focus in the poor and black communities and was the main reasons programs like Headstart were begun. I think in regards to the current “problem” with non-english speakers entering the education system new and more vigorous early education programs are the way to go. … but of course in our current climate of constant cuts to education funding this could never happen.
Most of the funding in CA has been cut for these programs so drastically that they really don’t exist for most school districts. In trying to keep k-12 operating the districts cut pre-school and after school programs all around the state.
Also…getting qualified bi-lingual teachers into pre-K programs is difficult. Most of the k-12 programs hire good bi-lingual teachers leaving few for the lower age programs.
So…one thing about a bi-lingual / multi-lingual student base is that ultimately we may have more teachers to help with another generation of pre-K students. Trying to be optimistic here
Let’s don’t jump on this…let’s see if we have an answer…
I would like to see the concerned parents direct their ire and energies to getting NCLB changed and/or dropped.
One of the huge community benefits of public schooling is that children of the community mix. The value of this mixing is the reduction of “us/them.”
Charter or magnet schools for “those” students sounds a bit like “separate but equal” which is very uncomfortable.
BTW SallyCat, if this diary grows to 80 or so comments, would you please begin a part 2? Some of us are unable to participate when a diary gets big. Thanks. 🙂
since it is the way the RWCM and their ilk talk.
Getting rid of NCLB and it’s testing and related costs on education could be a really good way to ease some of the educational strain arguments.
What questions / comments would you suggest on arguing against NCLB?
No worries at 60-65 comments I’ll open another diary…I should only hope for that many!
What questions / comments would you suggest on arguing against NCLB?
It’s a commie plot? 😉
I do not have the info at my finger tips (and, alas, I am not like Oui who does search magic), but I have read that some states were considering dropping NCLB even though they lose Federal funding. Maine, Vermont(?), and Utah, of all places. Don’t know if they have.
I do have friends in NJ who spoke of their school district considering dropping NCLB. Now that community was considering raising taxes to do without the federal money!
Arguments for dropping NCLB would include: Follow the money – which corporations design and score the tests involved? (TeacherKen posted somethings here last summer; he may still be at MLW).
In talking with RWCM, I say:
I wonder about the tests themselves. How well designed are they? How reliable and valid, in testing terms? Did you know standardized tests are very limited measures? Did you know when a standardized test is designed and then given to a sample population, if a question gets a lot of correct answers, it is removed from the test. That’s pretty sneaky. It’s as if the test people want to trick the kids.
I hated those kinds of tests as a kid, didn’t you?
Do you know some kids will just fill in the “bubbles” in a pattern – sheesh – and their scores determined how much funding the school gets?
Doesn’t it bother you having the Federal government determine what is taught in our local school? Do you know how much this NCLB costs to administer and monitor? What a waste of tax dollars. Wouldn’t you be willing to contribute more to the schools to get the feds out?
I don’t know about the states dropping out but i do recall something here in the local paper (portland maine) talking about the state of maine joining up with 13 other states for some sort of a lawsuit in regards to NCLB lemme look and see if I can find it.
Well that turned up nothing that I could see right off hand without having to pay 2 bucks for. (grumble) Most of the articles that turned up in my search were mostly for the military recruitment issue.
I don’t know enough to develop a specific perspective on the dynamics involved with regard to how ESL needs affect native english speaking kids education.
What I do know is that the fact that we graduate increasing numbers of native English speaking kids from our primary and secondary school systems who cannot read or comprehend what they may be reading is a problem of such magnitude that it easily transcends the severity of any problems asociated with non-English-speaking kids in the classroom.
I’d be interested to know if anyone has compiled stats on native-english speaking students in different school districts where some have high percentages of non-English-speaking students and some have low percentages. (Just a hunch on my part, but I’d bet that poverty, rather than language familiarity, is most likely the common denominator for poor performance.)
I’ll need to go back to the research material tonight.
IIRC there is a direct result that says that ALL students in a multi-lingual school actual do better on the CA English proficiency tests than do students in a less diverse environment. Perhaps the fact that students helping other students learn English raises the overall level of proficiency. I’ll see if I can find the quote.
I would agree on the overall deterioration of reading level from graduates from our schools. It was very apparent when my step-kids graduated from predominantly white schools…about 18 years ago. Even then the level of reading / English comprehension was dreadful. As active parents we read their work and edited term papers, etc. BTW one child went to a private school that was about 95% white and the other child went to a public school about 75% white. Both kids had trouble with grammar and spelling through their senior year.
The overall level of literacy in the schools is more of a concern and we should bring all kids, whatever their birth language, to a higher level.
This statement contained in the PIPA research brief is in line with my supposition that poverty is likely to be a more definitive indicator of scholastic difficulty than language skills.
I realize the situation is far more complex than just thisone point, but it seems to me that any effort to remedy the problems must at least begin with an accurate understanding of the causative factors that create the problems in the first place, and I suspect poverty and disenfranchisement is high on the ist in this instance.
An educator, Ruby Payne, has a book, A Framework for Understanding Poverty in which she explains the poverty culture and how schools and teachers need to change to reach these kids.
Though the book is written primarily for those in a classroom, her book is an interesting read. She distinguishes generational poverty from situational poverty. She discusses a poverty culture which has the same characteristics whether in Glascow, Mexico City, or in the U.S.
Poor performance in school can be viewed as much more than an individual’s “failure.” It reflects a “culture” clash.
March 31st Bruce Wilson posted an interesting diary, Study: Public Schools Outperform Private Schools, Conservative Christian Schools Lag. He wrote:
In “The Manufactured Crisis: “Myths, Fraud, and the Attack on America’s Public Schools” Dr. David Berliner and Bruce Biddle argued that ongoing criticism of America’s public schools is baseless and partisan. [ read review of book in Christian Ethics Today ]. A new study released January 2006, funded by the US Department of Education, by researchers at the University of Illinois at Champagne Urbana rebuts claims on the alleged low performance of public schools
And he provides the links.
Thanks for the info and the links. I don’t have time to read them all now but will do so tomorrow.
I’m glad people are engaging on this. If we don’t reverse 40 years of shamefully bad education policy in this country we’ll be a third world nation sooner rather than later.
Let me start by saying that I had friends in the ’70s who sent their English-speaking children to bilingual school so that they could learn another language. It didn’t work at all. The kids picked up virtually none of the language (Japanese in this case). And from what I heard, it sounded like the Japanese kids picked up very little English. In the Bay Area what seems to have been the most effective is transitional schools that are basically English immersion for a year or two, with mainstreaming into the regular schools after that.
But to get to the subject line of my comment, one of the issues that revolves around education and (often illegal) immigration is that many of the illegals are seasonal workers involved in picking. These workers migrate from place to place depending on what crop is coming to market. And their children migrate with them. So you have schools in the Central Valley that really struggle with transient populations.
When a kid enters a school, spends two weeks in a class, leaves, and re-enters some other school, and keeps repeating that process over and over, the effects are obviously devastating to that child; but there is also disruption to the kids who are in the class for the long haul as their classmates move in and out of a revolving door.
I remember reading many years ago about a proposal to deal with the problem by instituting a regional plan whereby school districts would coordinate, and the teachers would be forced to adhere to incredibly strict lesson plans where if, for example, it was April 4, every 4th grade teacher in the Valley would be on page 195 of the same math book. In this way, even though there was tremendous social upheaval involved with switching schools so often, at least the children would be able to make the adjustment in their academic subjects. Unfortunately, I only heard about that proposal once, and given the enormous difficulty of implementing such a program, I’m sure it was never pursued.
But it is yet another difficult issue that begs for resolution.
Actually, this is a TERRIBLE idea. I taught in a school district that implemented such a plan, and it is one of the things that drove me out of teaching. This isn’t teaching, it is working as automatons. No skill required, other than crowd control. And children are not identical units of learning with funnels in their heads, either. I mean no disrepect, however, this is not a workable idea. A classroom is first of all, a social environment. and it is the social disruption of moving into and out of a classroom that is the problem.
In the “olden days”. when this country was primarily agricultural, children were schooled when there were not crops in the field to be worked. We need such a calender of flexibility, or else mobile teachers, or teaching via television, as I’ve seen work in remote areas of the NW mountains. Costly? not as costly as a child who cannot read! It also means that people who hire seasonal worker families should allow and pay for schooling time for the children in those families, as part of the benefits that they receive from any parent who is willing to work in those circumstances.
Of course, many many children whose first language is not English do not have the mobility of seasonal worker families – they have the mobility of poverty – house to house to whatever. . .
That sounds like one of those instances where the world tries to twist itself around in weird positions in a well-meaning attempt to “adjust” to a basically insane situation, and that never ends well. The insane situation in this case is the one in which desperate people drag their children around from one field to another in an attempt to keep eating and to sleep under a roof. The effect that has on schools is “just” an effect of that insanity, and nothing ever got cured by treating effects instead of causes.
Creo que el lastima aqui es que los que hablan solo ingles teman los otros, que vienen de otras culturas, que hablan el idioma de sus padres, que saben las palabras de Pablo Neruda. Pero todos pierden cuando no hay un puente donde las culturas pueden conectar. Y para muchos que hablan solo el ingles, hay miedo de no entender lo que los “extranjeros” dice en su presencia, porque pueden decir cosas malas sin saberlo.
Din pacate, oameni carui numai vorbeste engleza se teman altrii carui sunt de un altful cultur, carui vorbeste limbele parintii lor, carui cunoaste cuvantele lui Eminescu. Dar toti se pierde cand nu este un pod unde culturele poate face un intelegere. Pentru multi care vorbeste numai ingleza, este frica de nu intelege ce zice “strainii” in fata lor, din cauza se poate zice lucrurile rai si nu se poate inteleg.
Je crois que la pitié est ici que ceux qui parlent seulement anglais craignent les autres, qui viennent d’autres cultures, qui parlent la langue de leurs pères, qui savent les mots Mogliere. Mais tous perdent quand il n’y aura pas un pont où les cultures peuvent relier. Et pour beaucoup qui parlent seulement l’Anglais, il y a de la peur de ne pas comprendre ce que les “étrangers” dit dans sa présence, parce qu’ils peuvent dire des mauvaises choses sans le savoir.
Speaking more than one language is good for you.
Pax
You are so right, Soj. It is sad that here, in this place, we speak only English, and that we fear those who do not speak English, who come from other cultures, who speak languages of their native lands.
I have, myself, heard associates who speak only English, fear what they hear people saying as we pass them on the street.” Are they saying bad things about us? Are they plotting against us? We’ll never know.”
I’m responding to the gist of what you have written, not attempting to make an exact translation, of course.
I stand in awe of your language proficiency, Soj!
Don’t “stand in awe” of me, to begin with I lived in several foreign countries starting at age 6, so it’s natural for me to at least know a few words of several languages. And as my own mother says, my English sure needs improvement 😉
Learning a foreign language has so many benefits, everyone should do it. Besides the ability to understand poetry, songs and the speech of those using the second language, and simply getting to know people from other cultures and lands, there is much more.
Learning a foreign language is probably the single best mental “exercise” you can do, which will help make your brain stronger and more flexible, giving you an advantage in every day activities that have nothing to do with the foreign language.
Imagine if there was a single exercise routine which anyone could do and would result in people having healthy, firm bodies. Well the equivalent for your brain is learning a foreign language.
For anyone wanting to learn a foreign language, the single best way is to have a partner who is a native speaker, the so called “pillow” method. But if that is not an option for you, I highly highly highly recommend the Pimsleur brand of courses.
I promise that after the first lesson of Pimsleur even a lifelong monolingual English speaker will be uttering coherent phrases in the foreign language. And no, I swear I do not work for or get paid by the Pimsleur people 😉
If this isn’t enough incentive for those monolingual Tribbers out there, let me tell you that speaking Spanish in America has been wonderful and I’ve met all kinds of people I never would’ve been able to otherwise, and made some tremedous friendships. Not to mention I got to hang out in the kitchen of my favorite Mexican restaurant and shoot the breeze with them 😉
Pax
Well, I will at least stand in envy. I was fortunate enough to have parents who made sure I learned at least a little Spanish when I was very young. It took, I guess. I have little opportunity to speak it anymore, but I do keep up with reading it. And I still translate really boring speakers into Spanish just as a way to keep awake. Hearing Spanish and being able to speak it daily for the many years I lived in Texas was a sheer joy. Getting to meet and listen to Borges talk about his writing not long before he died was another great reward (I’m not talking about his politics).
But nothing quite matched seeing smiles and unexpected applause break out when I was asked to teach a class to Head Start teachers here in the north. Several of the teachers and aides there did not know English very well, as I learned. I had to do it all in Spanish and English. It was fun, in spite of my very primitive speech.
I speak Spanish like a drunken goat.. never let that stop you from speaking it! 🙂
And if you really want to do something fun with your Spanish abilities, read ALL of one of Hugo Chavez’ speeches, not just the edited paragraphs that make it into the English press. One of the most charismatic speakers of all time. Sometimes hilarious, sometimes caustic, always gripping.
In fact, I’d say the three living best speakers in terms of charisma and eloquence are Chavez, Fidel Castro and Subcomanante Marcos, all of whom speak in Spanish.
Pax
Estudio espanol ahora a la universidad. Trabajo a la universidad y tomo clases gratis. Quiero aprender a hablar espanol bien porque hay muchas personas qui hablan espanol en el norte de Virginia, donde yo vivo. El gubernador de Virginia, Tim Kaine, habla espanol muy bien. Tim Kaine puede hablar con mas votantes que yo puede hablar. Decide’ estudiar espanol porque quiero hablar con estos votantes tambien.
Creo no escribo muy bien. Debo practicar mas, pero no quiero avergonzarme.