See Scooter Lie (.pdf). Text below the fold for the non-adobe inclined.
Q. And was it a discussion of –that was –was it a topic that was discussed on a daily basis?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And it was discussed on multiple occasions each day in fact?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And during that time did the Vice-President indicate that he was upset that this article was out there which falsely in his view attacked his own credibility?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And do you recall what it is that the Vice-President said?
A. I recall that he was very keen to get the truth out. He wanted to get all the facts out about what he had or hadn’t done, what the facts were or were not.. He was very keen on that and said it repeatedly. Let’s get evsrything out. He wanted to get it all that. That, that I recall.
Q. Do you recall if you ever discussed a copy of the article with Vice-President Cheney –in front of you what you talked about?
A. Physical copy in front of him? I don’t recall that. He often cuts out an article and keeps it on his desk somewhere and thinks about it and I subsequently learned that he had such an article from the FBI agents who talked to me.
Q. And had you seen that copy of the article before the FBI showed it to you during the course of the investigation?
A. I I don’t recall it. It’s possible if it was sitting on his desk that, you know, my eye went across it. I don’t, I don’t recall him pulling it out and saying something to him, but we talked about the article a fair amount.
MR. FITZGERALD. And let me show you a copy of the
article with handwritten notes on it.
MS. KEDIAN. Grand Jury Exhibit 8.
BY MR. FITZGERALD: Q. And in looking at Grand Jury 8, can you tell us if you recognize the handwriting at the top, top of both pages?
A. Yes, sir. It looks like the Vice-president’s
handwriting.
Q. Okay. And I take it you’re familiar with his
handwriting?
A. I am. I couldn’t necessarily pick it out from
similar handwriting, but this looks like his handwriting generally.
Q. Okay. And is it fair to say that there’s various items underlined in this copy?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Does that include the sentence, I have little choice but to assume that some of the intelligence related to Iraq’s nuclear weapons program was twisted to exaggerate the Iraqi threat?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And does it also include handwriting at the top of the page that says, that reads, have they done this sort of thing before?
A. I’m sorry, are you asking me if that appears at the top of the page?
Q. Yes.
A. Yes, sir, it does.
Q. And does it say beneath that, send our –send an ambassador to answer a question?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And does it say below that, do ordinary send people out pro bono to work for us?
A. It does, sir.
Q. And does the top of the page have a note that
continues over to the second page, or did his wife send him on a junket?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And do you recall ever discussing those issues with Vice-President Cheney?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And tell us what you recall about those
conversations.
A. I recall that along the way he asked, is this normal for them to just send somebody out like this uncompensated,’ as it says. He was interested in how did those person come to be selected for this mission. And at some point after we were in his –wife worked at the Agency, you know, that was part of the question.
Q. Okay. And is it fair to say that he had told you back in June, June 12th or before, prior to the Pincus article, that his wife worked in the functional office of the Counterproliferation of the CIA. Correct?
Q. So when you say, that after we learned that his wife worked at the Agency, that became a question. Isn’t it fair to say that you already knew it from June 12th or earlier?
A. I believe by, by this week I no longer remembered that. I had forgotten it. And I believe that because when it was told to me on July 10, a few days after this article, it
seemed to me as if I was learning it for the first time. When I knew it when I heard.
Q. Okay. So let me back up a moment. We’ll get to the July 10 conversation.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you recall when the Vice-President told you that we ordinarily sent –or did the send him a junket when you had that conversation? Do you know when that was in relation to the July 6 article?
A. I don’t recall the conversation until after the Novak piece. I don’t recall it during this week of July 6. I recall it after the Novak conver –after the Novak article appeared I recall it, and I recall being asked by the Vice- President early on, you know, about this envoy, you know, who is it and –but I don’t recall that early on he asked about it in connection with the wife, although he may well have given the note that I took.
Q. And so your recollection is that he wrote on July –that you discussed with the Vice-president, did his wife send him on a junket? As a response to the July 14th Novak column that said, he was sent because his wife sent him and she works at the CIA?
A. I don’t recall discussing it –yes, I don’t recall discussing it in connection when this article firbt appeared. I recall it later.
Q. And are you telling us under oath that from July 6th to July 14th you never discussed with Vice-President Cheney whether Mr. Wilson’s wife worked at the CIA?
A. No, no, I’m not saying that. On July 10 or 11 I learned, I thought anew, that the wife –that reporters were telling us that the wife worked at the CIA. And I may have had a conversation then with the Vice-President either late on the llth or on the 12th in which I relayed that reporters were saying that. When I had that conversation I had forgotten about the earlier conversations in which he told me about –reflected in my notes that we went over this morning, in early June, before the Pincus article, when he had told me that the wife worked at the CIA. I had just forgotten it.
Q. And you just affixed the, the person –who did you speak to on July 10th or llth that you recalled learning again, thinking it was for the first time, that Wilson’s wife worked at the CIA?
A. Tim Russert of NBC News, Washington Bureau Chief for NBC News.
REDACTED
REDACTED
Q. And did the Vice-President ever indicate his belief Ithat Ambassador Wilson was selected to go on this mission because of his marital relationship with someone who worked at
the CIA?
A. He –I think he, at times, had suspicions about, you know, is that why he was selected for this mission?
Q. And what makes you say that?
A. You know, I think he made comments about it in
connection with, well, his –you know, his wife works there. It wasn’t a full sentence, I don’t think, but that’s the sort of notion I took from it.
Q. An implication that if his wife hadn’t worked there, he wouldn’t have been the one sent to do the job?
A. Something like that. Yes, sir.
Q. And when did the Vice-President say that?
A. Oh, these were in discussions, July, maybe –late July, maybe September, things like that.
Q. And what was the –why was the Vice-President discussing that in late July, early September?
A. People would come through and talk about different issues and, you know, an issue might come up about the Wilson controversy which was in the news.
Q. And why did the President –Viee-President not I discuss this back in June, on or about June 9th, 10th. llth, when you were preparing for the Pincus column and he noted that his wife works at the CIA? Did you take from that an observation that, oh, his wife works’out there, he wouldn’t
have the job otherwise?
A. No, sir. The only, the only time frecall
discussing it just then was that discussion. That’s .all I recall.
Q. And when you —
A. I’m sorry, when I say that discussion, I want to be clear, the discussion that I took the note about.
Q. And from July 6th, when the Novak –July 6, when the Wilson piece appears, until July 12, when you were talking to reporters after Air Force Two, do you recall any conversation during that week where Vice-President Cheney observed or had it brought to his attention that Wilson’s wife worked at the CIA?
A. I certainly don’t recall any discussion about that prior to the Russert/Novak conversations when I learned about the wife, what I thought was the first time. And I don’t recall, as I told you before, whether we discussed that on the
plane that day.
Q. And do you —
A. But I don’t, I don’t recall- any such discussion.
REDACTED
REDACTED
Q. And why don’t I show you the copy of the July 6th column with some handwriting on it. And I believe we showed this document to you the last time, or at least discussed it, and you indicated that you had not seen this copy of the article with the handwriting until the FBI showed it to you?
A. That’s my recollection, sir.
Q. And showing you what has been already marked as
Grand Jury Exhibit 8, is that the copy ofithe Wilson column with the handwriting that you recall first being shown by the FBI?
A. Yes, it is.
Q. Okay. And have you ever seen the Vice-President with a paper copy of the Wilson column? And by paper copy I mean one not printed off the internet, not printed off a computer, but the actual physical newspaper column?
A. I don’t recall.
Q. Did you often see him with the actual newspaper column –actual physical columns from newspapers?
A. Yes, he often will cut out from a newspaper an
article using a little pen knife that he has and put it on the edge of his desk or put it in his desk and then pull it out and look at it, think about it. That will often happen.
Q. Okay. And do you recall if he did that on this
occasion on July 6th?
A. Evidently he did, but I don1 t recall.
Q. Okay. And fair to say —
A. Once again, this, this column came out, I believe he got this column when he was in Wyoming, not in Washington, over the July 4 recess. And so it’s –I don’t think it would have been there the day I walked in the office, for example.
Q. How long does the Vice-President keep the columns that he cuts out with a pen knife and puts on the corner of his desk?
A. Sometimes a long time.
Q. And if you walk in the Vice-president’s office,
would you see a stack of old newspaper articles on the corner
A. He doesn’t necessarily always keep it on the corner lo£ his desk. He keeps it underneath papers o-r in a briefcase lore something. I’ve seen him produce them from different places. And since the FBI showed me this, I have on occasion, lnoticed him still –you know, having a document on his desk which is a cut out newspaper article.
Q. Just to paint a picture for people who haven’t been to the office of the Vice-President, if any of us would walk into his office would we, would we,see a stack of newspaper lclippings or are we talking about one or two columns that might be on the desk if someone were to look?
A. Oh, one or two. I mean, you’d see stacks of paper and you wouldn’t know what was in the stack of paper. I — I’d never seen bunches of them, but I have seen two or three..
Q. And the handwriting at the top, is it fair to say that that appears to be the Vice-president’s handwriting?
A. Yes, sir. As I told you last time –.
Q. Right.
A. –I think that’s right.
Q. And does one of the questions indicate at the top here say, had they done this sort of thing before?
Q. And do you recall the Vice-President ever asking you whether or not the CIA had ever done this sort of thing before?
A. I think he did at one point.
Q. And do you know when that would have been?
A. No, sir.
Q. And it says here, underneath that, says, send an ambassador to answer a question? Did, did he ever express to you his disbelief that they would send an ambassador to answer a question?
A. I don’t recall him asking that specific question.
Q. Knowing the Vice-President the way you do with daily contact, would the question, send an ambassador to answer a question, indicate some sort of belief on his part that it seems sort of silly to send an ambassador overseas to answer a
question?
A. It certainly seems like he thought it was an issue, yes.
Q. And the next question written is, do we ordinarily send people out pro bono to work for us? Do you recall the Vice-President asking you a question to the effect of, do we, the United States government, send people unpaid to go work
for us?
A. Yes, sir. I think he asked something like that.
Q. And do you recall when he asked about that?
A. I don’t.
Q. And lastly, it says, or did his wife send him on a junket? Do you recall the Vice-President indicating or askingyou or anyone in your presence whether or not Ambassador Wilson’s wife had arranged to have him sent on a junket?
A. I think I recall him –I don’t recall him asking methat particular question, but I think I recall him musing about that. Q. Okay. And do you recall when it was that he mused about that?
A. I think it was after the Wilson column.
Q. Okay, and obviously —
A. I don’t mean the Wilson column, I’m sorry, I mis-spoke. I think it was after the Novak column.
Q. Okay. And you mentioned last time that you thought he had written, handwritten here, may have been discussed at alater date, like August or September by the Vice-President?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And —
A. I don’t know, later. I don’t know when, but yes.
Q. Okay. And can you tell us why it would be that the Vice-President read the Novak column and had questions some ofwhich apparently seem to be answered.by the Novak column, would go back and pull out an original July 6th op-ed piece
and write on that?
A. I –I’m not sure I
Q. Well, the Novak column
A. –followed your –he, he often kept these columns for awhile and keeps columns and will think on them. And I think what may have happened here is he may h-ave –I don’t know if he wrote, he wrote the points down. He might have pulled out the column to think about the problem and written on it, but I don’t know. You’ll have to ask him.
Q. As you sit here today are you telling us that his concerns about Ambassador Wilson, his concern that he’s working pro bono, his concerns that he’s an ambassador being sent to answer a single question, his concern that his wife may have sent him on a junket, would not have occurred between July 6th and July 12th when you were focusing on responding to 15 the Wilson column but instead would have occurred much later?
A. The only part about the wife, sir, I think might not have occurred in that week. The rest of it, I think, could have occurred in that week because, you know, it’s all there. You say it’s all in the column. The part about the wife I don’t recall discussing with him. It might have occurred to him but I don’t recall discussing it with him prior to learning, again, about the wife.
Q. And when you say learning again, you mean your conversation with Mr. Russert –a
A. Yes.
