I’m not going to editorialize about this story. I’ll simply present excerpts from the article in which a squad leader at the Haditha killings presents his version of events. In short, he claims the Marines at Haditha followed their standard rules of engagement, and that no cover-up was ever made:
A sergeant who led a squad of Marines during the incident in Haditha, Iraq, that left as many as 24 civilians dead said his unit did not intentionally target any civilians, followed military rules of engagement and never tried to cover up the shootings, his attorney said.
Staff Sgt. Frank D. Wuterich, 26, told his attorney that several civilians were killed Nov. 19 when his squad went after insurgents who were firing at them from inside a house. The Marine said there was no vengeful massacre, but he described a house-to-house hunt that went tragically awry in the middle of a chaotic battlefield.
“It will forever be his position that everything they did that day was following their rules of engagement and to protect the lives of Marines,” said Neal A. Puckett, [Wuterich’s attorney].
As the leader of 1st Squad, 3rd Platoon, Kilo Company, 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, Wuterich was in the convoy of Humvees that was hit by a roadside bomb. He entered the house from which the Marines believed enemy fire was originating and made the initial radio reports to his company headquarters about what was going on, Puckett said. […]
Wuterich told his attorney in initial interviews over nearly 12 hours last week that the shootings were the unfortunate result of a methodical sweep for enemies in a firefight. Two attorneys for other Marines involved in the incident said Wuterich’s account is consistent with those they had heard from their clients.
More on the flip.
On Nov. 19, Wuterich’s squad left its headquarters at Firm Base Sparta in Haditha at 7 a.m. on a daily mission to drop off Iraqi army troops at a nearby checkpoint. […]
Shortly after the turn, a bomb buried in the road ripped through the last Humvee. The blast instantly killed the driver, Lance Cpl. Miguel Terrazas, 20. […]
Wuterich, driving the third Humvee in the line, immediately stopped the convoy and got out, Puckett said.
Puckett said that while Wuterich was evaluating the scene, Marines noticed a white, unmarked car full of “military-aged men” lingering near the bomb site. When Marines ordered the men to stop, they ran; Puckett said it was standard procedure at the time for the Marines to shoot suspicious people fleeing a bombing, and the Marines opened fire, killing four or five men.
“The first thing he thought was it could be a vehicle-borne bomb or these guys could be ready to do a drive-by shooting,” Puckett said, explaining that the Marines were on alert for such coordinated, multi-stage attacks.[…]
Wuterich officially reported to his headquarters that there had been a makeshift bomb and called for a Quick Reaction Force, Puckett said. The first group encountered an unexploded bomb on another route — fueling concerns that insurgents were mounting an attack on the daily morning convoy — and a second force headed out. That group, including Marines with the 3rd Squad and the platoon’s leader, a young second lieutenant, arrived minutes later.
Wuterich told Puckett that no one was emotionally rattled by Terrazas’s death because everyone had a job to do, and everyone was concerned about further casualties. As Wuterich began briefing the platoon leader, Puckett said, AK-47 shots rang out from residences on the south side of the road, and the Marines ducked.
A corporal with the unit leaned over to Wuterich and said he saw the shots coming from a specific house, and after a discussion with the platoon leader, they decided to clear the house, according to Wuterich’s account.
“There’s a threat, and they went to eliminate the threat,” Puckett said.
A four-man team of Marines, including Wuterich, kicked in the door and found a series of empty rooms, noticing quickly that there was one room with a closed door and people rustling behind it, Puckett said. They then kicked in that door, tossed a fragmentation grenade into the room, and one Marine fired a series of “clearing rounds” through the dust and smoke, killing several people, Puckett said.
The Marine who fired the rounds — Puckett said it was not Wuterich — had experience clearing numerous houses on a deployment in Fallujah, where Marines had aggressive rules of engagement.
Although it was almost immediately apparent to the Marines that the people dead in the room were men, women and children — most likely civilians — they also noticed a back door ajar and believed that insurgents had slipped through to a house nearby, Puckett said. The Marines stealthily moved to the second house, kicking in the door, killing one man inside and then using a frag grenade and more gunfire to clear another room full of people, he said.
Wuterich, not having found the insurgents, told the team to stop and headed back to the platoon leader to reassess the situation, Puckett said, adding that his client knew a number of civilians had just been killed.[…]
The unit stayed at the scene for hours, helping to collect bodies as photos were taken. Wuterich, who remains on duty in California, where he lives with his wife and two young daughters, told Puckett that for months no one questioned his actions.
In essence, Sgt. Wuterish claims that every action taken by the Marines in Haditha that day was pursuant to the applicable rules of engagement for Marine units deployed in Anbar province. For the record, here is where Sgt. Wuterich’s version of events differs from other reports about the deaths at Haditha:
* Previous reports make no mention of the use of fragmentation grenades by the Marines. Iraqi Witnesses claimed only bullets were used to kill civilians.
* Reuters reported that the US Military confirmed the claim by Haditha doctors that all the civilians were shot.
* Wuterich claimed that he stopped his team after killing the residents of the second house. Iraqi witnesses claim that Marines moved on to a third house and killed people in there, as well.
* Wuterich claims that four “military aged men” in an unmarked white car attempted to run away, and were shot while fleeing on foot, pursuant to standard rules of engagement. Iraqi witnesses claimed that the car was a taxi which had arrived on the scene carrying students, and that when the driver put the car in reverse to back away, the Marines fired, killing the four students while they were still in the car.
* The two accounts also differ on the timing. Wuterich claims that the four men in the car were shot before any Marine entered the houses. The Iraqi witnesses from Haditha claim that the car arrived on the scene after the houses had already been fired upon.
* Wuterich’s account makes no mention of either the Marines burning the houses or of airstrikes dropping bombs on houses, both of which have been previously reported. Alleged images of the victims appear to show blackened corpses with burn marks.
Both accounts agree on two points. The Marines were methodical in their actions, and they killed civilians in their homes.
Several points strike me
Maybe the lives of the US Marines would be best protected if the entire Iraqi population were lined up against a wall and shot.
Is this, I wonder, how the “pacification” of Fallujah was achieved. If rebels storm a house, use it to fire from while the residents cower in a room, then the US are entitled to eliminate any “threat”. How many elderly, sick or just poor could not get out of Fallujah in time for the deadline – just like those same groups could not evacuate NOLA.
Finally what is perhaps the most chilling:
Now if they had indeed been so upset that they wreaked vengence, this could be seen as an explanation. Equally that they were more concerned with “doing their job” surely has serious implicatons for their basic humanity. Have they just become reactive killing machines “following orders”?
Incidentally, what idiot would assume that a car full of people might contain a bomb and immediately open fire? If you are going to dispatch suicide bombers, you do not waste 3 others in the process or manybe these thugs (the US Marines) consider that the other three come along for the ride to ensure their place with the unpteen virgins in heaven?
Good points.
Regarding the taxi shooting, its my understanding is that any vehicle that gets too close to our forces is shot up, particularly after a IED attack. I doubt the soldiers on the ground make fine distinctions about the rules of engagement at that point. Just shoot and justify it later.
The point about Fallujah is worth restating. This became the policy only after Bush and Rumfeld overreacted to the deaths of those four civilian mercs. The commander at the time resisted and later criticized the attack he was required to carry out. So, the shoot first and ask questions later approach came down from the highest levels of our government. Local ground commanders were ignored. Rumsfeld wanted to punish Fallujah because of the bad PR the story about the dead mercs had given the Bush administration. It was a reprisal policy, and served no purpose other than to boost the reputation of the political leaders back in the US with their base supporters. Sad to say, but there are many here who will cheer Bush and Rummy anytime a Fallujah type operation is carried out.
“Collective Punishment” it’s been coming up alot. It’s been the “excuse” for why check points are mostly target practices for our “honorable heroes”. Why pregnant women are shot in the stomach as they try to enter the one last remaining Maternity Clinic in Baghdad.
It’s the new reason for house raids… and now Haditha.
Collective Punishment.
It’s a term used in the bible.
It’s now a term being used here in the states and not just in NOLA. Got a drug problem in your neighborhood. Collective Punishment means that all the kids coming home from school can be questioned, searched. It means all cars can be stopped. It means…
House Raids. – Here in American.
Feel More Free?
Collective punishment essentially has been our policy in Anbar for some time. Fallujah was only the most extreme example. And I hear we are planning a similar operation against Ramadi now.
got a copy of the Constitution from the Electronic Freedom Foundation (EFF) when she interned for them last summer; she keeps it at the very top of her daypack for when it’s searched at school for drugs…makes a subtle but direct point with the searchers. 🙂
“Innocent till proven guilty” — nice words, but they’re just as “quaint” as the Geneva Convention…
Was the rustling sound maybe the stifled screams and sobs of children? Since you already kicked in doors and where not entering the house in any stealthy manner you could have asked the individuals to identify themselves. I’m not seeing a pressure packed situation here not one that justifies this shit anyway. Those guys are under incredible pressure but snapping like that is unacceptable those where human beings.
One of the reasons I doubt Wuterich’s story. It seems to follow too precisely the so-called RoE as he describes them. Which is what you would do if you shot up a town and killed a lot of innocent people. You’d get your story straight and say:
Yessir we shot those civilians sir, but it was by the book sir. It was a “righteous shoot” sir.
I believe your right they are going to go with the strict rules of engagement defense. If these guys walk we will lose any hearts and minds that may be left. If there are any.
Jamail has an excellent piec eout, which if it’s been mentioned here, I missed it. Titled Propaganda and Haditha, it could well be called “Propoganda & War Crimes.”
Highly recommended!
My position on is that the worst thing about this incident is that we’ve found ourselves in a type of conflict that puts our troops in an impossible situation.
That’s the part I’m outraged about.
Well, I agree. They should have sent in 400,000 troops, kept the Iraqi Army in place (except for the Republican Guards. Then maybe they could have exited Iraq by now, assuming everything had gone correctly.
But I doubt even that would have made a difference. Our troops are not trained to be occupiers. They aren’t native Arab speakers nor are many of them culturally sensitive. We’ve had intermittent “successes” like in Tal Afar, where certain troops and their commanders worked hard to gain the trust of locals, etc. but there has never been sufficient follow through, and as soon as that unit was rotated out, every gain we may have made was lost.
But Bush and Rummy never had a viable plan to rebuild Iraq. The State Department had one which at least acknowledged the difficulties any occupation of a country split by ethnic, tribal and sectarian strife would generate, but the only plan Rumsfeld had was invade, build bases, and hold victory parades.
The war was misguided and wrong, but the policy after the invasion has been just as misguided, corrupt and flawed as the reaasoning to depose Saddam in the first place. This is a tragedy for the Iraqis and for our troops.
Quibbles. Yes, our troops are trained to be occupiers, and in sufficient numbers – with attendent specialities deployed – are perfectly capable of maintaining order in a post-conflict environment. Remember that there was an approximately 30-60 day “window” during which the Iraqi population was indeed elated. That window was slammed shut the day the CPA usurped Gen. Gardiner’s group.
And what Jeff wrote above goes to the heart of the matter here: this particular Marine unit was on it’s third deployment. That is unconscionable. I can’t recall any other time in our history when the Marines have been deployed/served involuntarily beyond the required tour of duty. (Extensions in the Vietnam era were voluntary).
The US, it’s government and US military have no credibility left whatsoever. So, why not lie a little bit more?
That staff sgt Wuterich, who according to his attorney forever will hold the position that everything they did that day was following their rules of engagement, I can somehow understand that cause he would never be able to live with himself if denial didn’t kick in.
What I find suspicious is that Wuterich apparently thinks he needs a lawyer.
Well, he does need a lawyer. He’s being investigated for a capital crime, which in the military is the death penalty. I don’t blame anyone for wanting a lawyer at this point.
What I didn’t find surprising was the defense of properly appling the rules of engagement. That is the exact reason recently given by the military for not bringing charges against some Marines in an investigation into a separate incident where civilians were killed. I’m sure the Kilo company Marines will all cite that incident in their defense and claim they were just following the same rules of engagement that cleared their fellow Marines.
I’ll editorialize. Thanks for the opening Steve. Blasting through doors and killing 20 civilian women and children is murder and not standard operating procedure. The part about a door being open so we killed everybody in the next house defies logic.
Sgt. Wuterich is rightly scared but it would be best if he just explained that these marines lost their minds and awaited his fate. The women and children in those houses cannot wonder about their fate anymore. We are sending a murderous message and our allies hear it loud and clear.
Wuterich is pointing the finger up the chain of command. He’s basically saying that we did what you said we should do. Whether you believe him or not (and I doubt a lot of his story, frankly) I think his charge points up the real failure in Iraq, a failure of strategy as well as tactics. We’ve turned the Marines into the storm troopers of the US military. They get sent in to use the most lethal methods in the most dangerous areas.
This is a failure of vision on the part of our leadership. No one wins a war against an insurgency by killing civilians. At best you perpetuate the conflict and engage in an onging bloodbath in which civilians are the principle targets and victims.
I suspect there are many, many incidents like the one in Haditha. The only thing that made this one come to light was the sheer number of dead bodies, and the high number of old men, women and children among the victims. How many times have we heard of shootings at checkpoints where cars were shot up? We don’t have a secure environment, and we don’t have enough troops, so we permit the widest latitude in how those troops may act toward perceived threats.
I believe it was Cindy Sheehan who said, (parapharsing) – that everytime they tell a number of insurgents were killed… ask them how many were women and children.
That’s my point. Even if Wuterich is right and he applied the proper rules of engagement (and I doubt that was the case or the investigation would not have reached this point) the simple fact is that those RoE are themselves perverted and harmful.
It’s a farce as well as a tragedy. We send Marines out heavily armed to get blown up by bombs. Then they search for the bombers (who no doubt have long since departed) by shooting everything in sight. It’s basically the same flawed tactic we used in Vietnam: free fire zones.
Yes. And each times Marines get killed… this country screams for more bloodshed.
The Iraqis don’t want them there. The soldiers by their own brute force are causing so much of the hate against them.
If you had a plumber come to your home to fix a plugged up toilet, and then three years later your house was a cesspool and ruined and the plumber in frustration and anger shot and killed your children in cold blood – and then still insisted that they stay the course…
would you want that plumber to continue tinkering with your plumbing?
The author of “How we lost the war in Iraq” I forget his name – was interviewed by a CP friend of mine. He said there is no communication between the soldiers and the community. They are only about 5 translators for the entire military there. so the soldiers go blasting into doors, pushing scared people around – mostly women and eldery and YES, THE DISABLED… – we are not winning any hearts and minds.
And my heart and mind has changed, too.
from returned soldiers that have caused me great alarm. It isn’t that all of our soldiers are that way, but the one’s who are aren’t called out on their attitudes…racism…..addiction to violence and hatred! Our soldiers have lost their way and it isn’t just one of them, it is most of them – because if your fellow soldier is doing unethical things and you aren’t reporting it or a soldier is bragging about unethical behavior while in Iraq and you aren’t reporting him YOU ARE COMPLICIT WITH HIM/HER NOW! You’re right Janet and that’s where we are today now!
I have been raised up by and near the military.
For the first time in my life – the Marines and Navy scared me. I felt threatened. I felt scared.
There wasn’t any feeling of “not all of them are that way”, or “it’s only a few” – their is a vibe there.. a pulse…
it’s one that says – I’m free to do whatever I want. I’m free to murder. You’re nothing.
Bush has created a murdering monster and we can’t even raise our voice against it without being scorned or threatened for doing so.
Those that are silent – are complicit.
My Veteran is so thoroughly disgusted by the display of militirization in EVERYTHING and the attrocities and the generaly lack of concern on the part of Americans. “Oh, they’re just trying to do their job…” BULLSHIT!!!! Make them all accountable.
Janet and we will fight for what is right because we know the difference and because the military has been a community that we have both lived in we can feel the difference. We will overcome this because there really isn’t a choice but perpetual war and death and that cannot be tolerated! We will all make it through it though honey…..like Cabingirl tells me when it’s rough for me “If you’re going through hell, keep going!”
Some of our men are refusing to go. Ehren Watada of Washington state. He’ll go to jail – but the bastards who murdered so many children and shot a dsiabled 75 year old … we’ll get a fucking parade.
And you know what – Democrats will be right along cheering because they can’t stand up and do any critical thinking. They are too afraid to look like a peace activist. They are the chickens for the chickenhawks.
((((Tracy)))))
Tracy our military is only a reflection of our culture. Our national attitude since bush the swaggering asshole took office. The disease is lack of leadership the symptoms are Haditha and torture. The military is not ultimately the guilty party here its the slim majority of the country that backed bush in especially 2004 I’ll forgive them their incredible ignorance in 2000 since bush didn’t win anyway. The militaries civilian leadership has left them hanging out to dry after encouraging this kind of aggressive behavior. So Tracy do not take any of this personally the true criminals here are Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld the warpigs.
Our culture is angry about being lied to to beget this war. I don’t think our military is a reflection of our culture at all……they are reflection of our administration of whom feeds them and clothes them and supplies them with ammunition and first aid when they are scared for their lives or wounded in a war zone. Then they come home and are told and discover they can’t live in their culture any longer because they are violent and murderous. So I don’t think at this point they are a reflection of our culture but one of the administration instead.
Agreed. Rather then culture maybe I should have said the murder and torture are a reflection of the post 9/11 anger of about half the voters.
So sadly true that sometimes it brings tears to my eyes. I’m listening to the sergeants lawyer on CNN being questioned by Soledad and she doing a pretty good job right now, he is trying to make the argument but it just doesn’t float and it’s so sad to listen to.
DJ that may be the best analogy I’ve heard yet. You could add that the plumber takes up residence in your house for those three years and starts building permanent bases in your basement.
And the rampaging plumber has heir own toilets – but won’t allow you to use it even though he’s supposedly fixing yours… and if you try to find a place to take a shit – you’ll be shot in the face
You wouldn’t find a place anyway because the plumber has fucked it up so you only have electricity two hours a day and your in the dark all night.
are nonething but vengeful, cowardly baby killers.
Marines have to be brainwashed. They have to be. It’s part of their training so that they’ll not question running straight into gunfire.
But the brainwashing takes a toll, too. Everyone is a target. Here and there.
Try to talk to a Marine. They will spit at you, call you names. Look at you with such hate and call you disgusting bitch. They might even pretend to shoot you in the face. As like what happened to me at the Fleet Week by a “Marine”. If they are treating Americans with such disrespect, imagine what is happening there.
They know they have no more honor. They know they are in the wrong. They are trying everything to justify their murdering rampage. I say, fuck them. Make them accountable. Defending their practices or lack of… is no longer honorable. We can’t even say “I support the troops but..” anymore with a straigh face or honest soul.
If those children were AMERICAN… this country would be up in arms. But because they were Iraqi… we’re discussing “how the Marines can and cannot kill” – well fuck that – Killing is wrong… and these “Christian soldiers of the Bushtapo” are murdering innocent women and children. There’s no spin a human can put on that none.
We have given Bin Laden his victory. We have perpetuated a cycle of violence between the West and Islam. We turned the rightful pursuit to bring Al Qaida to justice into a thousand acts of vengeance against mostly innocent people.
There will be more terror attacks against the US for years to come because Bush chose to invade Iraq. Once that decision was made, Haditha and so many other atrocities became inevitable.
Soldiers are trained to kill without mercy. They are trained to use the maximum lethal force they can to protect themselves. Only an idiot would send them off to war for the reasons we gave.
Haditha is just the tip of the iceberg. I know, I know, “iceberg” – we won’t have many of those either.
I can no longer sit back and try to reason with my heart that the Marines and Soldiers are just trying to do their job. Not after all the attrocities, the blunders, the fuck ups and the countless dead women and children.
The military, right now, is The Red Regime tool. They are murdering innocents – Bush and the Military (from the grunts to the generals) should all be held ACCOUNTABLE.
Yes, they are taught to kill… and now I feel that killintg is nothing but murdering.
are melting, threatening a flood . . .
Bingo
This whole affair is heart breaking. For the victims and their families, but also for the Marines and their families.
It’s too easy to make sweeping statements about the motivations of the Marines. I take any non-commissioned officer’s word about wanting to protect the lives of those young people he’s responsible for, but we are all judged not by the intentions but the consequences of our actions. And the consequences of their actions are horrific.
However, we should keep in mind that the Marines and the Iraqis have different agenda in their stories about this atrocity. People who have never been in that situation should keep moral condescension in check and simply say some variant of “there, but for the grace of God, go I.” It’s very easy to imagine how one would act in that situation sitting at a computer keyboard, and be revolted that several young men went storming through houses looking for the people who were trying to kill them and leaving tragedy in their wake. Ever been shot at? If not, reign in your moral superiority.
That these young men committed a terrible act is unquestionably true. But the line between right and wrong is razor thin. Decisions made in a heartbeat have life long consequences. It’s too easy to paint these young Marines as aberrations. They were doing what they were in Iraq to do, they were attacked and they responded, I think, professionally and the results were an atrocity. Ever wonder why existentialism was the philosophy of the more thoughtful actors in the French Resistance in WW Two. For good or ill, we are the decisions we make.
That this masscre of civilians is an outrage is beyond dispute. The obscenity of it lies not only in the consequences of the actions of Marines but for the fact that they were put there in the first place. We are all responsible actors in this world. Those of us who have never had to make these decisions or take these actions, with minimal information and deadly force, should do two things: be very grateful and judge consequences not imagine motivations.
In a just world both the political leaders who sent them and approved the tactics to be used, and these soldiers would stand trial for what has happened in Iraq.
But this isn’t a just world now, is it.
women and children and shot in cold blood. Nope never.
So I guess now – since Marines are out there “fighting for our freedumb” we should keep our morals in check???
I don’t think that’s fair to summarize Phronesis point. One can feel empathy for the soldiers situation while also condemning their actions.
One of the things our justice system permits in murder cases is the consideration of mitigating factors when determining culpability and punishment. I don’t want to judge the Marines at this point. I want the facts to come out at trial and I will wait to see how the system handles those facts. If the facts are as stated by the Iraqi witnesses then I cannot see any outcome other than convictions for murder.
However, I must confess that I am not at all confident that the facts will all come out at the trial, or that those facts will be judged properly. I would like to believe that, but after the Abu Ghraib trials and the farce of the guantanamo tribunals, I have reasonable doubts about the adequacy and efficacy of the military justice system.
This is a politcal case and a case in time of war (even though the war has not been lawfully declared, that is how most of the public and the military itself will see it). Under these stresses I am not at all sure the system can provide justice, to the Marines or their victims.
Fair enough. And I am not trying to war with anyone here. Truly. I just can no longer justify, excuse or look away. This is no longer our military – it’s just a tool for Bush. Or maybe I’ve changed and I see that dropping bombs on cities is just the same attrocity as shooting a 4 month of baby point blank in the face.
Yup, I’m the bad person for pointing that out. I’m bad because I “don’t support EVERYTHING the troops do or have done” because it’s for my freedom. I had some Marine scream at me yesterday that I was disgusting and that he had to go and fight for some worthless bitches rights.
How is killing an Iraqi and being so angry have anything to do with my or anyone’s rights. We have to stop kidding ourselves.
Do you all really want these troops in your schools? Aren’t you all just as afraid of these “troops”, these “heros” of a fake and phoney occupation??
But as I just posted to MilitaryTracy, what’ sickening to me and the Vet in this house is the overwhelming apathy and justification on the part of Americans. The whole, “they’re just trying to do their jobs” is just bull.
What job description is it?? Oh that’s right – they keep taking things out of the field manual – like the Geneva codes… Handy.
I don’t blame you at all for the disgust and rage you feel. I am deliberately toning down my responses here because I do believe in the idea of justice and due process. I want these soldiers to be tried, and I want all the facts to come out at that trial. I want nothing suppressed or excused. I want them to have every opportunity to defend themselves for what they did. And I am praying that justice will be done in this case, even as I worry that it will not.
(((Steven))) I understand. My words aren’t coming across as cleas today.. or this week… or at all maybe.
My family is mourning the death of decency.
I’m dealing with a man who hasn’t fought this particular war but is feeling some very strong and foreign emotions about it. We no longer have anything left of his service here. He hasn’t gone into tirades but he’s definitely been more drawn to the peace movement and the human being movement.
People can say that we don’t walk in the shoes of these callous murderers… but my husband has walked in the shoes of the military and the training and what you see happening with and to our military is bullshit.
They were on a rampage that lasted hours. HOURS! It wasn’t a knee jerk reaction. A “Kill or Be Killed” situation.
They killed women and children in one house and then went to another looking for more. Their buddy was killed by a roadside bomb so they wanted revenge.
Babies were shot in the head. Please explain or excuse that.
Later that night they kidnapped a young man and his body was dropped off at a morgue the next morning. Riddled with bullets and covered in bruises.
These “soldiers” are going to come back really fucked in the head.
If everything that happened in Haditha that morning was according to the book how come Wuterich’s report to his superiors was that the civilians were killed on a bus by an IED explosion? Everything else he has to say about this from that point on seems to be moot with me unless it wasn’t he that reported what happened there that way and it was someone up his chain of command who tried to float that huge ginormous LIE! My initial understanding though is that he led the shootings helped mainly by one other troop member.
Another thing for me – is if the Military was trying to do such a grand job – why are they now not having to worry their pretty little heads over things like
Rules of Engagement, Code of Ethics
or that quaint thing called thje Geneva Convention.
Tracy, I thought of you during the protest yesterday. These are not our military men anymore. They are something else.
is going to be very very painful. Even the ones who did nothing but said nothing…..they were doing their best to survive situations but they will never be the same and coming clean is going to so so painful and we in America do not like for our men to cry! We strongly discourage it.
Re the civilians being bombed in the official reports, in the article Wuterich claims that was the result of a “miscommunication” with those who heard his intial report over the radio. That’s another inconsitency which makes me suspicious of his story. Surely there was time to clear up any “miscommunication” in after action reports. So, that excuse doesn’t fly with me. It’s too pat.
are recorded. It is impossible to record all of them though. If there was an aircraft in the area like a helicopter listening in it was recorded. The Marines talk back to the ship a lot so it makes sense that most of their radio transmissions are recorded. This may turn out more like Watergate and erased minutes on tape.
was called if these Marines came under attack too. It makes sense that there would have been a whiskey cobra in the air or something along those lines in communication with them.
Also, I doubt there was just ONE or TWO radio calls. something like that – there was alot of talking back and forth. From that day and well into the next morning when the last body was dumped off.
They are hiding and lying.
They’re covering their asses.
If Haditha is true and numerous other reports that the Iraqis are now getting out there to the real world, Bush will have to leave Iraq without an oil deal. He’s already had to figure out that he won’t get to control the crude though he tried, now he must leave with a fabulous deal in his pocket and he doesn’t have it yet. They haven’t even stabilized the country so the crude can be counted to leave the country! So we will do what we must to make Haditha “questionable” and as long as there is confusion about it nobody will take a stand for fear of being proven “WRONG”….and that will include the American public too!
Isn’t it so quaint that Bush got a bad guy as soon as the mainstream news started reporting on Haditha???
But this Vet in this house questions how it is possible to even HAVE A BODY of Al-Zaraqwi after dropping TWO 500ton bombs on his block.
But Americans.. Pay no attention to man behind the curtian.
And don’t you dare question the military. ACK.
These are not our military men anymore. They are something else.
A paid mercenary force which is the inevitable result of an all voluntary army!
Where did you protest?
Most of the tents were recruiting stations or bible belts.
I do recall on Burts Bees tent and they give us balm.
The event was very eerie. Right Wing Christian Zealots fest. Heart of the lion’s den.
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By David Limbaugh
NEW YORK (JWR – Jewish World Review) June 11 — What has been reported about the Haditha tragedy is that a terrorist improvised explosive device (IED) blew a Marine in half, literally, and wounded several others. Afterward, our soldiers responded to the attack, killing 24 men, women and children.
We don’t know for sure yet if the killings were indiscriminate or even if those killed were victims, as opposed to being armed, hostile and threatening to our soldiers.
We do have reports that Haditha is a terrorist hotbed — referred to by some as a miniature Taliban-like state — in which the terrorists rule with an iron fist and perform daily executions of those not sufficiently obedient to their rule, or Sharia law, or who knows what else. We are told that Haditha citizens live in fear and may prefer to cooperate with the terrorists purely for self-preservation.
Reportedly, a preliminary military inquiry found evidence that the attacks were unprovoked and that earlier statements by certain Marines that the civilians were killed by a roadside bomb rather than gunfire have been discredited.
I’m glad Bush still has allies – with a pen of course. Another account …
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."
▼ ▼ ▼ MY DIARY
simply for being in CodePink. Simply for standing with a sign that says “Support our Troops, bring them home now”. Marines HATE that and they get very angry and violent. Seeing women and children with pink signs is very very very “threatening” to them.
Yesterday one mocked shooting me in the face.
I am a threat – and you can bet you are a threat to them too. Just that for now, it’s not legal for them to shoot us down in the street.
For now.
(((Oui))))