In the category of What Non-smokers Already Knew:
The Surgeon General has stated that there is no safe level of exposure to secondhand smoke. Article
Separate smoking sections don’t cut it: Only smoke-free buildings and public places truly protect nonsmokers from the hazards of breathing in other people’s tobacco smoke, says a long-awaited surgeon general’s report.
So when you go out to dinner and you request the nonsmoking section and they seat you 3 feet away from the smoking section and you spend the next 90 minutes coughing and rubbing your burning eyes, it’s not just your imagination. You are being exposed to potentially fatal levels of secondhand smoke. As if you didn’t know that already.
Some other interesting findings:
“There is no longer a scientific controversy that secondhand smoke is a killer,” he said. The report “eliminates any excuse from any state or city for taking halfway measures to restrict smoking, or permitting smoking in any indoor workplace.”
Among other findings:
# Separating smokers from nonsmokers, cleaning the air and ventilation systems don’t eliminate exposure to secondhand smoke.
# There is good evidence that comprehensive smoking bans, such as those in New York City and Boston, don’t economically hurt the hospitality industry.
# Workplace smoking restrictions not only reduce secondhand smoke but also discourage active smoking by employees.
# Secondhand smoke can act on the arteries so quickly that even a brief pass through someone else’s smoke can endanger people at high risk of heart disease. Don’t ever smoke around a sick relative, Carmona advised
# Living with a smoker increases a nonsmoker’s risk of lung cancer and heart disease by up to 30 percent.
I am a militant nonsmoker – no doubt about it. I won’t even try to pretend otherwise. It stinks. It fouls the air. It’s a major cause of grass and forest fires, as well as home fires that cause thousands of deaths every year. Not to mention the tens of thousands of people who die horrible, gasping deaths from lung cancer and emphysema each year. If you want to kill yourself, fine, but don’t take me down with you, k?
I hate when smokers say they have a right to smoke in restaurants and hotels and bars. You do not have the right to endanger my life by making me breathe in that shit. Not that you asked me, but if you did ask me if I mind that you smoke I’d probably answer “Sure you can smoke, mind if I fart?”
If I came into a restaurant and began spraying a can of Raid into the air I would expect that people might get annoyed. So why can’t smokers understand that everyone has the right to breathe clean air?
On a final note I’ll give you a little background. I grew up in a family with 8 children and both of my parents smoked 1 to 2 packs a day. Now that we are grown 5 of the 8 of us have asthma to the point of having to take daily medication for it. My mother is in the end stages of emphysema and still smokes.
I will no longer frequent restaurants that allow smoking, even if it is in a separate room.
I hope this new report is the beginning of the end of smoking sections.
End of rant.
I voted for #3, but #6 held a strange appeal… lol
I grew up with smokers, worked with smokers…and had a nagging cough that would not go away. Only after I left that workplace and moved out of my mom’s house when I got married did it finally go away.
And even though my mom quit smoking at age 60, the damage had been done…she developed lymphoma, emphysema and lung cancer in her later years, the latter finally contributing to her death.
It seems a bit odd to me how many of my fellow liberals/progressives rail about automobile pollution and corporate pollution…while spewing pollutants into their own personal space and the space of those around them. Yeah, I ain’t perfect — my eating habits leave a lot to be desired, but I’ve never heard of anyone dying from secondhand fat…
Thanks for sharing this, SN… 🙂
And it’s not like when we eat a Twinkie we force everyone around us to eat one too.
Who likes to fart in public? Is that you, Mr. Nature?
Great post SN. I had to be different and voted for number 6, although bug spray would hold a certain appeal in some restaurant.
There you go pretending to be Mr. Nature.
Thanks for visiting, FM. I in no way had you in mind while writing this.
I’m sure you didn’t. 🙂
I’m glad you posted it though. It reminded me of something I have to go out and pick up and to save up some gas for my outing.
Hmmm, gas and your “grocery item” don’t sound like a safe mixture. Of course it would be a much quicker death.
I think you outed yourself in your previous comment.
Good point.
Wow! I didn’t know there were any indoor places left that still allow smoking. Out here in the wild west it just isn’t so. Even in many or most bars there is no smoking. Is the South a little behind the times?
Tip: Next time you write a diary, try to let it all out, don’t hold back so much. . . .LOL!
Love ya SN
Shirl
The South™ behind the times!? I can’t imagine what you mean.
Smoke rolling out of most auto windows sitting at stoplights down here? Can’t see out of the hazy Waffle House windows down here ya say? It’s just fucking obnoxious sometimes what the people who live in the South tend toward ignoring about reality! The other “belief” that I find obnoxious as hell down here is that a good tan removes all obesity! I guess “tanned” fat isn’t “real” fat. In Colorado I was a chunky girl after having my last child, in Alabama I am a “Curves” goddess if only I had a membership!
LOL, MT! No Curves membership, huh? I think you get one free when you tithe more than 20% of your annual income to the local nondenominational megachurch.
Come on now, this isn’t just a Southern thing. . .Ohio?
I am used to smoke free restaurants and public places: I think they all should be smoke free. I do not smoke anywhere unless I know that doing so will not affect anyone walking past me. I am rhe kind of smoker who carrys baggies with me to pick up butts others leave on the ground. So I don’t object to the rules established to protect non smokers at all.
What I DO abject to, vociferously, if the right so many non smokers seem to assume to stand in moral judgement of “my” bad habit, while happily indulging their own more socially acceptable but perhaps less visible ones, like drinking and driving, as just one example.
I am an addicted smoker who has not been able to stop smoking, in spite of being fully edcuated and aware of all it’s hazards to myself and to others. The fact that I go to the lengths I do go to to NOT inflict my smoke on others means absolutely nothing to the many non smokers who have crossed my path who choose to treat me as some sort of “moral leper” anyway.
Or who say stupid things lkike “Say, don’t you know that’s bad for your health?” as if I just landed here from outer f*ckin space.
We are a group very easy to judge, demonize and we make great scapegoats for all sorts of free floating anger and frustrations.
I see some anger has seeped into this comment. 🙂 Please know it is not directed at any of you, it’s a spillover from being treated very disrespecfully by a whole lot of “holier than thou” types along my way, who haven’t one single CLUE how vicious an addiction this is, or how desperately hard so many us of have tried to over come it, unsucessfuly so far.(NOT from lack of strengh or ability to commit, either. I have I have a 25 years recovery from alcholism under my belt.)
The level of societal ignorance about how tough an addiction this is to beat is awesome. I suspct in time, some bright mind will have a scientific explanation for this, which will make all the “moral judgements” and “lectures” many of uslong t erm smokers have endured…seem pretty stupid and cruel.
Meanwhile, I am glad things are changing now, it so you all have clearner air to breathe.
You are a very polite smoker, and kind of rare in my estimation. I always get mad when people flick lighted cigarettes out of the car window or just toss it on the ground before entering a building.
This probably stems from when I was a chld. My father was talking to one of his friends and I was very small, maybe 5 or 6 and I was trying to get past them to get out of the room. The other guy was holding a cigarette in his hand and gesticulating as he spoke. As I waited patiently to get by (we were taught never to interrupt adults) he laid the lit end down on the inside of my arm and burned the shit out of me. The tip came off and just stuck there burning and he never even apologized, just acted like I was a little snot who was in the way.
My mother will not socialize with any of her children if they don’t allow her to smoke in their homes. And if we all get together at a restaurant we have to sit in the smoking section even though she’s the only one who smokes. She is unwilling to go one hour without smoking.
Smoking is a terrible habit and I feel bad for anyone who smokes and wants to quit because the tobacco companies deliberately got them hooked and it is hell trying to stop.
I know what you mean about passing judgement. I’ve been overweight a good portion of my life (not grossly fat, just really need to lose 50 lbs.) and I can’t believe some of the stares I get when I go out to eat.
on my left hand where I went to hold my dad’s hand, and ran into his lit cigarette instead…I was about 5 at the time.
He was quite apologetic, as I recall…
I know how hard it is to quit — the only way my mom finally did was when she had her heart attack and was laying in the hospital CICU, wondering which breath would be her last. You won’t hear any cracks from me, dear…
I, too smoke like a chimney, but always outside, downwind, and only with the permission of any sentient being within shouting distance. Here in California, we have to stand in the street to smoke.
I don’t want to hurt, annoy, or inconvenience anybody.
I am upset about proposed legislation to make it illegal to smoke in a park, using the rationale that smokers leave burnt matches and butts behind. I carry an old Altoids tin, and never leave a mess; that’s littering. I support ordinances against littering, but against smoking in the open air, … ?
That’s a tough one and I can see both sides of it. I hate walking into a store or office building where there are 50 people smoking just outside the entrance. It’s really enough to give me an asthma attack. I guess we need to rely on people’s good sense. If it’s a wide open place, go ahead and smoke. If it’s in a small courtyard where people have to walk through your smoke, then don’t smoke.
And I don’t. I move far away from others, I don’t sit on a public bench if there’s another person there, and never, never smoke anywhere near children or the elderly. I may be an addict, but I truely would never want to harm another with my second hand smoke.
Here in California lots of businesses won’t allow smoking on their property at all, not inside, not outside the entrance, or even in the parking lot.
I’d hate to be addicted to smoking and feel like a pariah everywhere I went. When my car was leaking oil and I couldn’t afford to get it fixed, everyone would tell me not to park in their driveway! So I carried a big piece of cardboard around and laid it down where the drip was.
It IS a terrible addiction. Nicotine is one of the most addictive substances ever sold legally. I hope you will try to quit, or try again if it didn’t work before. Many addictions are more successfully fought off on the second and third try than on the first. Sometimes the medicines and other treatments that didn’t work in the past might work for you next time, e.g. Buspar, the nicotine chewing gum, therapy.
I don’t want to see another person suffer later on because of smoking. Though you are a very responsible person in your smoking, which I appreciate, as a lung-sensitive daughter of a heavy smoker, I am also concerned for you. I hope you will be able to fight this off someday, and sooner, if possible, than later.
Thanks, Scribe.
An old friend who was once a heroin addict told me that stopping smoking was many times more difficult than getting clean from the heroin.
I’ve heard this from several people, but have also heard others say the opposite. I think there are big individual differences, and life stress plays a huge role. And the quitting is so different. In almost every case quitting heroin is done apart from the environment that gives you constant access to heroin. And usually, you have other people around to support the initial rehab, at least. (I”m not meaning to trivialize quitting heroin in any way – my hats off to anyone who has done that successfully!)
If you quit smoking, it is usually on your own, with tons of people still around you who smoke. And if you succeed, many will greet you with in effect “Finally you stopped being such a yutz!”
I have heard that ex-smokers are the most heartless of all nonsmokers because we just ain’t buying the bullshit about why you can’t quit. I loved them……I loved fully with passion and intensity and I quit for my daughter twelve years ago after smoking for about twelve years. When my full health returned to me I found that I hate the fucking things forever and ever. They suck to high heaven! They suck the life right outta ya!
wow, I can’t believe that no libertarians have spoken up yet to say that laws against indoor pollution are immoral and unprogressive and will put all bars out of business.
like several other commenters, I’m in Cali and have gotten spoiled.
Oh, you mean like this? Happy to oblige! 😉
it is complete, 100% bullshit to pass smoking bans for public establishments – by this i mean bars, restaurants and the like. smoke free workplaces make plenty of sense.
but the decision to allow smoking in a social establishment should be left between proprietors and their respective clienteles. don’t like smoke? go to a non-smoking bar. no problem.
I tend to agree – but only for small establishments with under, say, 10 employees.
Let me just quote from DaveW since he summed it up so well in the thread I linked to above:
should all these people all up for the smoking ban will forego walking down the street – car exhaust is roughly equivalent to cigarette smoke? for that matter, i hope all the anti-smokers forego driving entirely…can’t be inflicting these harmful carcinogens on innocnet bystanders, you know.
as for the employee situation, i rather imagine it will all equalize out. if smokers are in the minority, it really shouldn’t be an issue, right? the non-smoking workers would likely have far more options for employment than those working in smoking bars.
Two of my kids work in restaurants that allow smoking in the bar area, which is not separated from the main area. They had no luck trying to find employment elsewhere.
As to driving, it’s debatable whether car exhaust contains as many known carcinogens as cigarette smoke, but driving is as much a necessity as ust about anything else.
I think if you own a small neighborhood bar employing mainly family members and friends you should be able to allow smoking if you choose.
But so many towns have nothing but franchises – Applebees, Chilis, Dennys, Olive Garden, Bob Evans, etc. and if you allowed smoking in those big establishments there would be no safe place for nonsmokers to eat.
and how things would likely pan out under the “let the proprietors and clientele decide” mantra. since support for the ban is somewhat based in the idea that people can’t choose their jobs so readily, i just thought i’d explore the possibilities.
i really do think that if it came down to smoking vs. non-smoking establishments, the labor force would work it out among themselves. especially since, as is implied, the non-smoking positions will be the most sought. if smokers are indeed a minority, there really shouldn’t be a problem.
As a newly crowned non smoker(five weeks this friday…yahoo!) I understand all points of view on this. I too live in CA and am all for no smoking in any enclosed space. that is the law here. I want to state that if places of business would put ashtrays outside of their establishments then there wouldn’t be the need to throw them on the ground. I too was a very polite smoker. i know how nasty it is believe me. I have tried to quit several times over the years but finally had had enough and health issues to boot and went cold turkey. Please understand that the issue of smoke indoors is a no brainer to me. Please also know that it is not just a bad, dirty little habit. It is a freaken addiction. Just as food is an addiction or drugs or booze.
I promise that you will not regret it in the long run at all! It made a huge difference in my quality of life and I didn’t anticipated how much it would improve my everyday living and my health. I went through a small weight gain also but then started exercising, coughed up lots of “lung butter” for a bit and then became very slim and happy and healthy. I shudder thinking of what my health would be like right now if I had continued to be a smoker and dealt with some of the things I have recently had to deal with.
Lung butter. Eww.
As has been stated, a lot of us grew up with parents that smoke and a lot of us smoke and a lot of us don’t.
I’ve been thinking, and this isn’t snark, but how long before the first child endangerment law suit is bought against some partents that smoke. It only seems the next logical step in the way things are going.
It’s already been an issue in some child custody cases. I would hate to see it go further than that as in arresting a pregnant woman who smokes. It’s a slippery slope.
I smoke. I sometimes enjoy it and other times I truly hate smoking.
One of the reasons that I smoke is because it eliminates the wild mood swings I have from being ADD Triple H. The last time I quit the people who were living with me were throwing packs of cigarettes at me begging me to start smoking again after one week.
I was driving everyone around me crazy. Nicotine is the poor mans mood regulator. This is a documented fact.
One of the biggest bitches I have with the non smoking crowd and the government getting in on the act is that they fail to realize that some people need the nicotine. The stop smoking nicotine patches, gum etc… are so expensive that it is cheaper to smoke than to use them. Go figure. If everyone wants smokers to quit then make the cure free or cheap enough for everyone to buy and use on a daily basis.
If the gum was readily available for half the price of a pack of cigarettes I would be using this instead of smoking. The patches I would not use because the chemical makeup of how the nicotine is delivered through the skin is even more toxic and would leave long term side effects that are even worse than lung cancer. Try kidney and liver damage in addition to nervous system damage.
This brings up another bitch I have with the non-smoking crowd.
There is a total disconnect between the fact cancer is linked to “genetic traits” not just exposure to one source of cancer causing substance like cigarettes. Most people who develop any form of cancer have a genetic pre-disposition. This means that genetic damage occurred at some point in the life of your family line due to chemical exposure. This subject gets no attention in the conversation about smoking and cancer.
There has been over the last century a corporate cover up of the effects of exposure to all the chemicals created to produce the products we use everyday to make life more convenient. What goes totally ignored and un-discussed is the effects of all these chemicals on the human race as whole over time.
The government created NIOSH and OSHA which take each chemical and classify it as a singularity. Nowhere to be found is any information on the long term effects on the human race of “multiple source chemical exposure at sub chronic or chronic levels over a persons lifespan”.
The human race in the name of progress has totally ignored the long term consequences of being exposed on a daily basis to the entire range of chemical substances found in the air, the food we eat and the products we use.
Singling out smoking as the bogie man of cancer is not only stupid but ignores the combined effects of the genetic damage being done to the human race as a whole by chemicals.
Smokers are the official scapegoat selected to bear the burden and punishment of society in America for the long term effects of multiple chemical exposure.
It is politically correct to persecute, punish and demean this one segment of the population in America.
It is also very good for the bottom line of the tobacco industry, the “you know you want to quit” industry and political careers to vilify smokers and blame this group for all the ills caused by the chemical companies.
These companies introduced almost every chemical to date with very little study done as to the long term effects of these chemicals will create when released into the population.
It is also very easy to point the finger at smokers and infer that there.. there is the cause of my health problems. My god, your sitting next to a smoker who for all intents and purposes has becomes “the evil in society that we must eliminate”.
Guess what everybody! You’ve fallen for one of the biggest snow jobs of all time. The genetic damage done by the irresponsible release of chemicals into society which are now everywhere is done. The human race has screwed up it’s genetic legacy to the point of no return.
So to divert attention from this fact the government and chemical companies are now blaming the victim. Isn’t that just wonderful?
Yea, I’m a smoker but the anti-smoking zealot is the chemical companies best friend because they keep everyone from discovering the real truth of what is really going on.
Second hand smoke? I hate to burst your bubble but it has nothing to do with second hand smoke and has everything to do with protecting the chemical and companies that pollute the environment daily from a real discussion on the damage they have done to the world.
And don’t even get me started on lawn chemicals and the damage they do not just to the groundwater but to our health….all in the quest for a green lawn. Sheesh.
Yeah! That’s another hot button topic with me too. People who use these chemicals to make their lawns green is kind of like all the wingnuts who have been born again since they were not born right the first time around.
Born again lawns and born again Christians have one thing in common. They are both toxic to the human race.
The problem is that everyone is walking around with a severe case of tunnel vision. The human race might have another 10 to 15 generations left before the genetic damage is so great that we will be unable to reproduce in any significant numbers without major genetic defects appearing at birth due to chemical exposure.
In the meantime the rich make a buck and the average human being is totally oblivious to the real cost that is going to have to be paid by their children.
The damage is already done and it is irreversible. The only thing left is the levels of survival the world is going to have to accept when it’s comes time to pay the piper.
America is so good at playing the blame the victim game. Smokers just happen to be the easy targets at this moment in history.