I noticed some trends in both the green and the orange threads of yesterday’s diary, Keeping Bloggers Afloat. I will take the blame for not being clear enough on some points…it’s a writer’s responsibility to communicate clearly. Still, there were a lot of comments that seemed to miss the point.
First of all, a lot of people expressed a desire to contribute to me directly. Sites like Daily Kos and Booman Tribune are limited liability corporations. I set mine up that way for two reasons: taxes and protection against lawsuits. I agree to publish what y’all right without any preview, and that exposes me to liability. My lawyer has already negotiated my ass out of one problem that a user’s diary caused me. If you would like to make a large donation to the site (which I will obviously welcome) you can visit the store and buy color bumper stickers at $25 a pop. They are small and you can fit a stack of them in a drawer, or toss them out if you don’t want them. I get all proceeds from the bumper stickers, while Wolverine Writer, who administers the store, gets a cut of everything else. He has like seventy kids and can use the help, too. But, the idea for a monthly Salon-type webzine is not just about helping me make a living. It’s about helping smaller bloggers like Susie Madrak.
Many people objected to the idea of putting content behind a wall. Of course, the whole point of emulating Salon is that their content is not really behind a wall. All you have to do is endure a 15-30 second commercial and you are able to access all their content for 24 hours. For a monthly webzine, this seems like a small price to pay. They aren’t any have and have-nots in this system, just those that have the money to avoid the commercials. It’s not much different than the subscription feature at Daily Kos.
A lot of people thought that is was a poor business model. There are ways to keep the overhead costs pretty low. The initial programming could be donated, the server costs would be fairly low. The only real costs would involve finding someone to solicit the advertising and someone to put it into the layout each month. All the content would be provided for free, in return for a share of the overall profits. I envision a kind of blogger’s cooperative.
The webzine would not replace any blogs. It would just aim to provide a broader platform for bloggers to write within. It would also expose fans of Booman Tribune to other bloggers and vice-versa.
Another thing I found was a familiar basic hostility towards bloggers blogging for profit. I don’t know why so many on the left have such hostility to the idea of people getting paid in return for their work. It’s not something I find attractive. Part of it is the fierce egalitarian and hyper-democratic ethos of the blogosphere. The diary feature allows every user to be the equal of a front-pager, and many people don’t even bother to read the front-page, preferring to read user diaries. That’s understandable, since many of the diarists are more talented than the front-pagers. But, we shouldn’t forget that the sites would dry up pretty quickly without constantly updated front-page content. And if I don’t pay the server bill, the site will be gone in a hurry.
Moreover, there are not that many community sites, and some of the most talented bloggers do not run community sites. The webzine would be a great way for them to get more readers and some extra cash.
Finally, peeder threw a fit in the orange thread about my asking for volunteers. I can’t say I understand his objection. People don’t seem to mind donating money to their favorite causes and bloggers, why should they not be asked to donate their time and expertise? For many people, that is all they have to offer. I thought Kid Oakland’s response was appropriate.
In any case, a lot of people offered good advice and/or offered to help out. I don’t know if we will do this, but it is something Susie and I are considering and I thank everyone that gave constructive advice and feedback.
available in orange.
that I adore the idea. Your regular blog works as it always does, and for those of us who want to join in on the end product of several very good bloggers and read some specially written pieces by enduring a commercial or subscribing, YaHoo have at it! I think it is a fab fab fab idea and I would be there every day!
I think Tracy likes the idea, but she’s being shy as usual about expressing her opinion.
I like the idea of a Salon-style Day Pass for people who don’t want to buy a subscription or can’t afford one.
There are lots of sticking points, of course. Salon was well-established when it went with those Day Pass ads and had gathered lots of demographic data on its readers so that it could target the ads. Selling those Day Pass ad slots might be a tough nut to crack until you’ve got demographics and readership established.
I like the day pass idea too. Not to mention how cool it would be to read content that doesn’t quite fit the standard blog format.
BooMan, I support the idea and will be happy to help in any way that I can.
You just volunteered your services. Wait till peeder finds out you,….you,….you…..volunteerer you!
Do you kiss your kids with that mouth? š
Re: Peeder’s objections.
I donate time and money to the ACLU and the Sierra Club. Anthony Romero, the executive director of the ACLU, and Carl Pope, President of the Sierra Club, both draw a decent salary. Do I want them to do their jobs part-time? No, I do not–I want them on the case 24/7, and whatever they’re getting paid, it’s not enough.
What Peeder and other people are missing is that you’re not asking people to donate their time and talents to help open a donut shop, but to keep an independent voice in the media open for business. It’s a public service that does not have profit as its primary motive. If you and Chris Bowers, for example, were interested just in money, you’d walk away from your blogs today and go get a job that’s a lot less bother and pays a hell of a lot better (with benefits, too).
And then you wouldn’t have people like Peeder and me walking by and giving you advice on how to do your job. When’s the last time you saw people wandering past a fire, giving helpful suggestions to the firefighters on how to suppress the flames? Or hanging around construction sites, telling the workers, “I think you should cross-weld that girder…”?
What Peeder and other people are missing is that you’re not asking people to donate their time and talents to help open a donut shop,
What? No donuts? Well, count me out then.
When’s the last time you saw people wandering past a fire, giving helpful suggestions to the firefighters on how to suppress the flames?
You’re not supposed to do that? I’d better jot that down.
I tried once. They “accidentally” turned the hose on me.
Also, I found that pilots of large commercial airplanes don’t appreciate helpful suggestions on flying from passengers, either.
Susie spoke to me about a slightly different and more locally framed venture briefly last week, and I was definitely down with that. This larger venture sounds cool as well. My cash-strapped ass is no good for donations, but my time and talents would gladly be volunteered.
What the hell is wrong with you people……Why do progressives hate Capitalism?
This hippie commune crap don’t sound too shabby no more š
I wouldn’t mind helping on graphics and layout, some editing and so on or wherever needed (that I have some ability in). I’m a great believer in the barn raising concept. Also the Salon concept doesn’t bother me, although I rarely ever visit Salon because of having to go through it – but that’s different from clicking (or paying) for a purpose.
That said… while it’s an interesting idea, I am not all that sure it’s a workable one. I think it’s possible that there it might present problems, and no doubt some resentment, especially in deciding who were the bloggers to be included. And excluded. Would part of the criteria for determining this be need? (as well as talent, of course). Name recognition? That doesn’t always translate into talent, just into who you know (and who knows you).
Anyway, I fully support bloggers being able to support themselves (ethically) – and I think we could come up with any number of ways to help make this site profitable, but … and it just may be my natural cynicism and shortsightedness… I think the monthly magazine idea (as it is envisioned at this point) might wind up losing more than it gains, even if it does wind up being profitable.
I think the bloggers would self-select as to who would be in this venture. It’s to support the second-tier bloggers and third-tier bloggers, not the top earners like Kos and Duncan Black.
There’s a good question, though: who runs this thing? Is it an executive committee elected by the cooperative participants? Or a self-appointed group? I like the idea of a governing committee that has to stand periodically for election–it’ll avoid a lot of problems and be a good answer to outside charges that “elite bloggers” are “controlling” the blogosphere.
Don’t give short shrift to the management of this enterprise. If this cooperative is run democratically, it’ll have a chance to work. If it’s run by an unaccountable body of self-selected people…ay yi yi, do I have to tell you what problems that will cause? The cooperative members who are not running it will be forever grumbling they have no voice and critics will say (quite correctly) that bloggers believe in democracy as long as they don’t have to practice it.
Hmmm… and maybe an open editorial board type thing. Not usually the normal way of doing things, but that’s some of the fun of the internet… doing things differently.
So, maybe an integrated forum or some sort of software where the community participates in deciding/voting on what subjects are covered in each issue (not necessarily by whom), whether there maybe be a debate on a hot topic between 2 or more bloggers with maybe opposite (or at least different) views and so on, thus giving people a sense of being a part of it, and having an “interest” in the project. Completely volunteer of course.
I too think the transparency and democratically arrived at decisions of the management would be vital to the operation of something like this.
I think the bloggers would self-select as to who would be in this venture.
That raises a lot of questions. How many bloggers can be involved so that it is still profitable to those involved? Who’s the decider about who’s included? What are the parameters for choosing the bloggers? Will the content be something that readers can’t really get by reading the various blogs or the MSM everyday? What about liability issues? Will this venture require legal expenses as well? Which bloggers actually have enough time to organize and run such a venture?
etc…
How much is the nut for running a site like this each month?
I pay $10.00 per month for 1GB of bandwidth & unlimited HD space.
Also: If you ran a disclaimer saying you are not responsible for the content posted by users here I don’t see how you could ever be held liable for what someone else writes here.
Would love a more detailed explanation of how it all works, just in case I ever get more tahn ten active users.
My server costs $120. Last month (a really bad month) blogads paid me less than $400. You get the idea.
I can be sued for anything I publish here.
You can always be sued for anything. That’s why you keep the number of a good lawyer around, so they can slep down the nutjob stuff and handle the bits that may have something behind them (whether it’s a potentially valid legal case or a pile of cash).
I know, lawyers are expensive, but so is losing a lawsuit.
Side note: MAD Magazine used to (and probably still does) make a point of listing their lawyer on their masthead. I forget his name, but he was listed as something like “Al Feldman — Lawsuits.”
For REFUSING to publish something.
By a state prison inmate in Michigan.
Frivolous as hell, but it still gave me a heart attack.
Hi everyone! š
I was a Lurker at Daily Kos for a couple of years (with an eye on BMT as well) and have just started thinking about speaking up a little. I really like the tone around here and have followed a few banned users over to the pond to keep reading their work. So, I’m excited to be here today. š
And FYI – here is the gist of what I just posted at the orange version of this diary:
My opinion on the volunteering is that I’m OK with the concept. If it weren’t for Daily Kos – and BMT and others, then I wouldn’t be the informed citizen that I am today. And for that value, I am willing to give my time. It would be a payback. Plus, volunteering might be good for people who want an “internship” type of situation. Learn the ropes, practice skills, etc.. Nobody says these volunteers have to be experts – or sacrifice.
So, Booman – I don’t know you, but I like your work. Count me in! š
Welcome to the site, TX.
Welcome to the pond!!
I love your screen name – wish I had more creativity in creating one. If I used your concept, mine would have been a little long:
TX 2 Peru* 2 TX 2 OR 2 TX 2 FL 2 MN 2 CO 2 CA 2 MN
*Don’t know what the shorthand is.
Let me add another welcome!
And to continue along this meme:
NY 2 DC 2 NY 2 PA
I have not yet read through all of the comments from the original post here (or on the orange site), but I think it’s a great idea. I would love to have one place I could go to read a variety of blogging voices in an expanded format – and I would pay or click through ads. I’ve been a Salon subscriber since they began that system and have been very happy with it (now I sound like some loser from an infomercial…).
I’m not very vocal on this site, but read every day.
Anyway, I look forward to seeing how this all develops and can certainly donate time and effort (and maybe I’ll pay a visit to the Booman store, too…).
Booman – have you ever thought of talking to Robert Parry? His original idea was a group of indendent reporters, not just himself, posting important stories about things that matter. He’s had a heck of a time raising money, and certainly has some fantastic content and connections. You have the infrastructure. Seems there might be an opportunity there. Just a thought.
The core concept of an expanded writer’s pool is valid, and has worked well for the past couple hundred years: a (literary, political, etc.) magazine. I’d keep in mind that, depending on content, even writers with established credentials still go through fact-check/verfication, copy-edit and layout, and articles are approved for publication by the editor(s). That “standard practice” distinguishes writers @ Salon (or any other major mag) from a “regular” weblog.
All of which is to say if you’re interested in discussing and/or moving forward, you might consider ePMedia as a place to start. For many reasons, not the least of which is the Journal.
Booman,
I see the webzine as a great way to give second and third tier bloggers the unique opportunity to be read by a wider audience. The day pass model has merit and would enable you to draw a larger advertisers. My questions are:
I am willing to volunteer to assist you in this effort as well. I may not post often (I am a lurker in a good sense of the word) but I visit BT every day and gain insight on issues of importance that no other blog provides.
Thanks!
I think it’s funny about volunteering. What do you call writing diaries? I’ve been a professional writer for many years. I know the mindset of publishers who pay the printer and the light bill without a thought but do all they can to not pay writers, and certainly pay them as little as possible. But we’re here because we want to be. Blogs and digital publishing have liberated us in our ability to go directly to readers. That’s worth something to me. Otherwise, at this point in my life, I let the chips fall where they may.
This is an idea that, if it works, provides opportunity to be read and maybe make a little money. For stuff we’re already voluntarily doing. As for the mechanics, some of us are doing a little of that (primitive layout etc.) on our own blogs, also for free.
As for the bloggers who are getting big jobs, it’s just the coming of age of a new medium. A lot of the biggies in newspapers and magazines in recent years came out of the alternative press when it was young. My colleagues at the Boston Phoenix and Washington Newsworks are at the NYTimes, Time, Newsweek, Congressional Quarterly, etc. There are differences, of course, but this has been the year that blogs broke through, at least in the political world.
from folks who use the ads to purchase from other sites, like the iTunes Music Store and Powell’s? I’ve been doing some purchasing from Amazon, mainly because my church’s website has a link to them and they get a percentage of each sale (I know it’s not much, but it’s helped offset this year’s deficit). I try to remember to click the iTMS link whenever I want to get a few more things off my Shopping Cart, and I need to go see if I can preorder KMc’s upcoming book (WebMage — Kelly McCullough) from Powell’s. (I also need to get over to the BooTrib store and get Boston Joe’s book — so many books, so little time.)
As for volunteering, I’d be willing to chip in some editing skills (grammar and spelling — back when I was studying technical writing, my teacher said I was just anal enough to make a good editor; I’m still not sure if that was a compliment).
anything I can do to help just say. I’ll voluteer time, skills whatever. I’ll even contribute some free stuff from Asia if you want it.
All you have to do is endure a 15-30 second commercial and you are able to access all their content for 24 hours.
Advertising is intended to manipulate one to consume something.
Will there be guidelines on what can be advertised? Will there be prohibitions on who can advertise?
Instead of commercial advertising could community members buy the time/space? I’m thinking of a 30 second poetry spot or a reminder to breathe or an encouraging word or a breathtakingly beautiful photo. Can we contribute toward your livelihood without the corporations?
Our consumption is killing us. Can it be done differently here in this place that seeks to be progressive?
Yeah, one “pie fight” ad and I’m outta there.
What?! You don’t believe in “freedom” of expression?! Shocking! š
Bloggers can put any sort of ad they want on this proposed publication. They are absolutely free to accept advertising from the National Rifle Association or the National Organization to Promote Cream Pie Fights Between Women with Fake Breasts if they want.
I am also 100% free to cancel my subscription if they have ads to which I object. In fact, I cancelled my subscription to the Quality Paperback Book (QPB) Club because they kept putting books by Michael Savage and Ann Coulter on the front cover. As I explained to them:
“You have the perfect right to run your business any way you see fit. If you think it is a good business decision to promote Mr. Savage’s and Ms. Coulter’s books by featuring them so prominently in the monthly flyer, then good luck to you.
However, it is also my perfect right not to support a business that goes to such great lengths to promote the books of two people who have called people like me traitors, and equate my dissent from the current government’s policies with treason against my own country. Therefore, please cancel my membership immediately, and be advised that I have contacted over sixty members and gotten them to agree to cancel their memberships as well.”
Shortly thereafter, QPB stopped pushing Savage’s and Coulter’s books down people’s throats, although they still sell them. My miniature campaign was almost certainly not the reason, of course, but something tells me they had a LOT of protests from QPB members. I found it extremely easy to find five dozen people who were upset at how prominently QPB featured Savage’s and Coulter’s books (not just once but month after month), and were upset that QPB admitted accepting “promotion fees” from Coulter’s and Savage’s fascist sugar daddies in return for an unprecedented place of prominence.
You do realize that very few people actually buy Coulter’s and Savage’s “bestselling books”, right? Their books are heavily subsidized by sugar daddies like Richard Mellon Scaife, who buys warehouses of their piles of typing to push them up on the “bestseller” lists. The publishers of the Coulter/Savage crap also pay huge fees to bookstores like Barnes and Noble and Borders, and offer steep discounts, in order to get those bookstores to feature Coulter’s and Savage’s books prominently in displays.
I have NOT forgotten that when religious fanatics threatened the life of Salman Rushdie, the author of “The Satanic Verses”, in 1989, three major American bookstore chains–Waldenbooks, B. Dalton and Barnes & Noble–cowered under the threat and withdrew the book for sale, which meant that ONE-THIRD of all the bookstores in the United States did NOT offer “The Satanic Verses” to its customers. That’s why I shop at independent bookstores (if I buy online, it’s from Powell’s, not Amazon).
What about Borders? Screw them, too. They own Waldenbooks and were part of the decision not to sell “The Satanic Verses”. And they’re still cowering under threat from the Muslim fanatics, who are just as bad as our American religious fanatics:
http://www.bordersunion.org/node/13493
Here’s a crazy idea: how about we put EVERYTHING out there and let people DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES?
Wow! I was teasing you.
I do appreciate your response. I find the facets and dynamics of “freedom” are fascinating – historical, cultural, legal, personal, etc.
Thanks.
I have two ideas for you to consider.
(1) If you look at most for-profit sites (e.g. Yahoo Geocities), they have multiple levels of membership. Everyone can access basic features for free. But if you want super features, you have to take out a paid subscription.
(2) I was thinking it might be interesting to have a free website, but a paid print publication to go with it. The print publication carries the longer, more researched, more thoughtful articles. But you have to pay if you want to get it in the mail. The website remains free and is in effect subsidized by the print publication, and an advertisement for it.
Yes, that stirs up a whole bunch of paradoxes!
This might not be a bad idea, for two reasons.
The first is, having worked for a magazine once in my life, I know that magazines don’t exist to sell subscriptions. Magazines exist to sell advertising (with a very few notable exceptions, like Consumer Reports). Sbuscriptions just help to defray the cost. You can make some pretty decent money with this model.
But — and here’s the real reason — a print publication will get read by people who don’t have access to a computer. Plus, if you structure your costs properly, you can subsidize comping out copies to people. Like, for instance, Democrats in Congress and in state houses around the country. (One copy per office. Let the rest of the staff pay for copies.) This way you could make money, the magazine staff could make money, bloggers could even make some money writing articles they normally would have written for free.
Sounds like a winning idea to me. Where do I sign up?
Sounds like a pretty good idea. Reminds me of the Counterpunch, Z Mag models… any idea if those are viable financially for them?
I’m not familiar with them. Sounds like a great research project, though.
I really like this idea the more I think about it. I’ve been thinking for some time that instead of complaining about the media, we should become the media — or at least a more visible part of it. This would be a step in that direction.