Originally Posted @ Voices In The Wilderness
Israel is showing the entire world why its critics are absolutely right in suggesting that they have become a destabilizing force in the region. I will be clear that I don’t agree with Hezbollah’s actions although I completely understand their logic. That being said that does not give Israel the right to bomb all of Lebanon mercilessly.
I have been hearing the lies for weeks now, “Any sovereign country would do the same”. WRONG. Russia has twice been hit with vicious attacks on their civilian population by Chechen rebels groups but under Vladimir Putin (The so called anti democratic leader of Russia) the Chechen people have not been punished because of the acts of a few. If ever there were justification for a massive response it was following the Chechen rebels attack on the elementary school in Beslan. Just as a ferocious response may have been Russia showed how a truly responsible nation should respond. They were patient, the used covert operations to get the perpetrators and were recently rewarded for their efforts after killing the groups’ leader. A massive bombardment could have no doubt been carried out by the Russian government but again they did what Israel claims to be doing now, restrained themselves. Israel is said to be a democracy and to listen to western media Russia is a ruthless autocratic dictatorship yet somehow the ruthless dictatorship showed far more care for human life than did the, “flourishing democracy”.
Not many years before that horrendous attack was the attack on a Russian theatre and again Chechen rebels murdered Russian civilians; though Russia’s handling of the situation was far from perfect they again proved to be a true world leader by restraining from collectively punishing the Chechen people.
Indonesia was bombed by Al-Qaeda and they arrested the perpetrators of the criminal act they did not unilaterally invade Pakistan and bomb their civilian population and infrastructure. There are literally hundreds of examples of nations being attacked without responding by instantly and unilaterally attacking a sovereign nation. Why then is the Bush administration and the Canadian government constantly repeating the same chorus, “Any sovereign nation would do the same thing”.
Absolutely wrong!
To my mind Israel is not different than a terrorist organization; no better than Hezbollah and no better than Al-Qaeda.
The Right Response
If Israel were truly a peaceful nation they would not have responded with bombs and other military apparatus but they would have applied pressure on the Lebanese government (which currently has the support of Washington) through Washington. Because of their recent democratic elections Lebanon has in place a government that would have been much more likely than in the past to work with Washington (maybe even Israel) to get the soldiers returned safely. Certainly it would have been a long and frustrating process but I find anyone who would argue for a military solution over a long and drawn out diplomatic solution as unwise at the core. Interestingly enough had this happened prior to the Gaza situation the response could have been much more measured without having to worry about looking weak. Putting Gaza under siege, then having Hezbollah capture 2 soldiers without responding would have made Israel look like they were unable to fight wars on multiple fronts. In essence, the Gaza offensive backed Israel into a corner (in the eyes of Israeli leaders) and as usual their leaders were not wise enough to react in a manner that would have made them look strong yet controlled (in either case quite frankly).
Iran and Syria
The western media has been beating the drums of war with Iran so it shouldn’t be a surprise that without verifying any of Israel’s claims that the missiles were Iranian missiles or that the soldiers are being transported to Iran they report it as fact. Irrespective of my contempt for the propaganda spreading American media the truth is Iran and Syria both support Hezbollah and Hamas and while the missiles may not have been Iranian missiles, Hezbollah is most probably being financed by Iran and to a lesser extent Syria.
Does this make these nations supporters of terrorist?
I see no difference between Iran’s support of Hezbollah and Hamas in the form of finances and even arms and The United States’ financial support of Israel (to the tune of 3 billion dollars a year) and their arming Israel to the utmost. There is however a perceived difference mainly due to how western media, the United States in particular, covers the two perspectives. I have yet to hear one American media outlet condemn any of Israel’s actions (From the bombing at the beach to the destruction of critical civilian infrastructure in Gaza) yet Hezbollah is time and time again referred to as a radical Islamist terrorist group. CNN even goes as far as emphasizing Hezbollah’s attacks on the U.S embassy 20 years ago (Without ever mentioning the reasons for the attacks).
Start of a greater war
This may or may not prove to be the start of something big and memorable for all the wrong reasons. Prior to the First World War there were many alliances made and treaties signed ensuring that if one nation were attacked the other nation would join the battle. It has been the simple response for decades to suggest that Germany and Germany alone started WWI (after all they signed the treaty of Versailles) but the truth is that they were not the only country invading and colonizing at the time, they were just the last. It seems quite fair to suggest that we are living in similar times; times of treaties and alliances, defense guarantees and nationalism. This could be the start of another war to end all wars but as I said, it may not be.
The Kosovo conflict of the 90’s proved that their can be civilization wars that don’t end up sparking world wars. The difference in this situation is that Israel is much more likely to attack Syria or Iran than Bosnians, Serbs or Croats were to attack Russia or the United States. The key to avoiding a world war in this situation is as it was in the Kosovo Conflict, keep the civilization leaders as supporters and sponsors and allow the proxies to do the dirty work otherwise we will be thrust into another world war.
It’s sad that it comes to this. I abhor the governments of this world.
God Bless
You’re quite wrong to claim that the Russians have not inflicted collective punishment on the Chechens. Just google “Grozny” for example.
I do agree that Israel’s actions seem wildly disproportionate, especially blocking off escape routes into Syria.
You’re right. Grozny was in response to the Beslan incident I was referring to. Good catch
Hope my sarcasm was just as good
60 dead civilians a destroyed tourism industry the destruction of civilian infrastructure for 2 Israeli soldiers. You really see that as proportionate? There are plenty of people in Lebanon who don’t care much for Hezbollah, you really think they should be punished because of Hezbollah’s actions?
You are aware the collective punishment is a war crime right?
By the way, by Israel’s logic 9/11 was completely justified and if America captures Bin Laden tomorrow Al-Qaeda would be fully justified in destroying New York City.
Double standards get us nowhere
Check Arminius’s comment again. He said Israels response was wildly dispraportionate.
The interesting thing about “proportionality” is that it is a war crime, and it is included in the Geneva Convention. I believe that when the UN recently said , that is was Disproportionate, they were sending a message to Israel.
And as long as the U.S. is there to veto any resolutions against Israel there is nothing to be done about it.
That si why we have the world court. Also, any country can try them if Israel fails to conduct a trail. But the important thing here is that they will get world wide condemnation. If I remember correctly, the UN said (cant say if it was a relolution) theat it was disproportionate, and it was unanimous.
This is where the U.S. vetoed, I believe.
Just had to check it out, and you are right. The US did vetoe the condemnation to Israel. I guess we can start calling the US and Israel the Axis of stupidity.
That was one of my first reactions to what is happening in Gaza. Collective punishment is a war crime.
I wouldn’t hold your breath for any convictions though. Americans and Israeli’s are immunned for some reason.
the same as what we did to Falujah but on a larger scale. Therefore, I have little hope in our war criminal regime applying pressure to the Israeli war criminal regime to stop this. The Israelis will also be aware of this analogy and feel justified in their continual destruction of Lebanon.
public will see because it would undermine their own argument for why they invaded Iraq. They went into Iraq with much less provocation based on America “protecting herself”. They can’t slap anybody down for defending themselves now and that would include Lebanon.
Here are a couple of stories about the recent backstory:
World War Four: Israel’s “Destructive Enterprise”
Enemy Link
Backstory: Israel Opted Out of a Way Out
De-Clawed Former Enemy Link
Let me preface that I am not a Jew nor a fanatical Christian. Rather I am an average Joe raising a family, paying my taxes and glad to be in the USA than any other country (I’ve been to over 60 in my life)and yes I vote Democrat.
After reading the article, I was disappointed to see such assertions presented with not to much what I would call research and/or partial objectivity. The comment about Russia not penalizing the Chechnyans is laughable. Have you seen the number of civilian dead not just caused by the Russians but by their own separtists? These are documented in many sources (something that seems to be casually forgotten). Then the apologies for Lebanon? This a country that is still run indirectly by Syria and has a fair amount of their country supporting/tolerating Hezbollah who has stating emphatically they wish the destruction of Israel and wish nothing but death on Americans (Americans like us – trust me, they are indiscriminate even when looking at anti-Israelis)
Granted, Israel does pull some boneheads. However, to completely validate Hezbollah’s recent initiative actions and make Lebanon appear as some poor helpless country is not, in my opinion, effective and/or objective journalism. So in closing, i find it necessary to respond to your unnecessary response of an article
Dan S
Chicago, IL
I mentioned to specific attacks by Chechen rebels, The Beslan atrocity as well as the theatre attack. Neither of those brought Russian aggression against the Chechen rebels. Russia has had moderate responses as of late. If Israel would moderate its responses I would be just as willing to applaud them for their change in attitude (doesn’t seem likely anytime soon unfortunetly)
Apologies for Lebanon? I am not quite sure how you got that from what I wrote. Having said that I did speak of Iran and Syria (Those who you call sponsors of terrorist) and I am simply trying to point out that it’s all about perspective and perception. To those watching Israel bomb without discrimination Lebanese people and Palestinians. Invading Syrian air space and threatening Iran it’s easy to view Israel as the aggressor and the terrorist state. That being the case it would be fair to caretorize The United States of America as the true supporter of terrorist because of their undying financial and military support for Israel. In short, The U.S supporting Israel is different from Iran supporting Hamas, for example, only because Hamas doesn’t control a recognized state which is not much of a difference at all.
I have not validated Hezbollah’s actions; I understand their logic. Israel and its supporters have started a war because 2 soldiers were captured and a few missiles were lauched at military targets. Well, Israel has thousands of Palestinian, Syrian and Lebanese (Hezbollah) civilians. Given Israel’s response to a fraction of that number Hezbollah appears moderate. For some reason you are only able to see things from one point of view, Israel’s.
So in closing tell Israel and its American supporters to stop bombing civilians and civilian infrastructure.