I must be a truely stupid or something. For some odd reason I thought people might be interested in finding solutions to problems. Apparently I’m totally wrong to believe anything of the sort.
It appears no one is even interested in discussing possible solutions. Maybe solutions are no longer considered Politically Correct Thinking or something. Is it any wonder America has fallen so far from the country I use to know in my youth.
I really want to know is anyone paying attention or am I just wasting my time on people who are only interested in “complaining about everything” and never spend one minute making any attempt to discuss SOLUTIONS THAT MIGHT WORK?
What has got me really ticked off right now is a thing called “silence”.
It started yesterday when I posted a diary in response to the diary mymother posted Don’t think of a Troll which was an excellent diary about how people behave in the Blog-O-Sphere.
So today I deleted the orginal diary I posted yesterday since it received no comments. Today I want discover if anyone else might be interested in finding solutions or if I should just forget about ever writing another diary on this blog to nowhere.
Admit it! The world sucks. Why? I suspect this world sucks because everyone is so busy bitching that no one cares about finding real solutions to real problems.
It cost people nothing to bitch.
However anything that requires these same people to use the brain for something other than this form of mental mastrubation is of course rejected because it’s, “too hard”, “not enough time” or “pick any excuse that is convenient”.
So once again in an effort to suggest, share and discuss a possible solution to the topic which mymother brought up in diary I propose the following solution on how to deal with the problem of trolls and such.
I call it the Time Out System
Let’s suppose a TU has come across a comment that is rude, nasty, obnoxious, demeaning, a personal attack etc… The TU hits the “Time Out Button” which appears next to each posted comment.
What happens is that the comment is blanked out in the tread.
- This user and his comment then becomes a “separate diary” in the “Timed Out Section” of the site. What would appears in this new diary is the TU’s reason for calling the “time out” on the offending user.
- So when the TU hits the “Time Out Button” the TU has to add their reasons in a text box which is just another pop up reply comment box before the “timed out comment” appears in the “timed out section” of the site.
- When the TU hits the submit button after adding their reason for the time out the following would happen.
- The TU is automatically sent a email message containing a copy of the users name, comment, his reason for the “time out”. This email includes an “automated unblock code link” similar to the type of links that are required for software registration or email verification from a server.
- At the same time the user who has been “timed out” is also sent an email message that his comment has been “timed out on Booman Tribune” with a link to the new diary which is created by the TU’s “time out”.
- From this point the user who is the subject of the the time out is restricted to only posting comments to the “timed out diary” section of the site until the “reason for the time out” is resolved in a positive or negative outcome.
- In the original diary where the offensive comment appeared the comment is replaced with the following
( “user name” : “Timed Out” : “link to the timed out diary” )
This is done so that anyone who is interested in what caused a “time out” on this comment can make comments of their own about the “time out” or just ignore getting involved in the resolution of the issue.
Users are thereby allowed to get involved the resolution process and state their reasons why or why not a user who has been “timed out” should be unblocked or lose their account.
The resolution process allows the user who is “timed out” to “stated their case” with the issues the TU found to be counter productive to the diary.
TU’s should be hesitant to use the “time out system” because they will have the responsibility to resolve the issue in a timely manner.
If for some reason the TU posts their reason for the “time out” and then does not follow up within a 24 hour period to the “user rebuttal post” the user who has been “timed out” is then automatically unblocked and allowed back into the regular section of the site.
To prevent abuse by a TU who puts the same user repeatedly into a “time out limbo”.
Any TU can request that the user should be unblocked by submitting an email request along with their reasons including the link to the “timed out diary” to site administration for review of a TU who abuses a user by “timing them out repeatedly”.
If a positive resolution or understanding is reached the TU who “timed out the user” then clicks on the unblock user link in the email that they received. This action then changes the “timed out message” in the original posted diary to state,
( “user name” : “Resolution Reached” : “link to the timed out diary” )
Note that the original comment is not restored to the discussion tread for futher comments.
If a resolution is not reached between the TU and the user who has been “timed out” after the 24 hours limit has expired the entire timed out diary is closed to futher discussion and is reviewed by the site administration.
It is at this time that site administration can determine if the user should be allowed to keep or have their account terminated. These decisions by administration are then posted to a “Rulings Section” of the site so that new users can see the type of comments that would result in a “time out”.
So were you able to follow the logic of how the troll problem could be handled in a fair, reasonable fashion on sites like Booman Tribune, Dkos and such?
Now tell me if the time I spent thinking this solution through and writing this diary was worth something or if it was time spent in vain.
UpDate 7/22/06, 1:55 CST:Thank you everyone for responding. One of the things I try to do most while blogging is post a response to diaries when I see no one has made a comment to a diary. Everyone here puts a lot of effort into the diaries they write and it’s always nice to know that at least one person spent the time to read the diary.
Another thing I try to do is answer every reply in a diary but it takes me a while since I have a very slow type speed (5-8 wpm).
Thanks again for the comments!
I read your diary yesterday, MM, and didn’t comment because I think it’s not a good idea. I am a TU, but I’m not here to pass judgement on anyone or to contol anyone’s life. If somebody wants to act like an ass, It’s not up to me to discipline them for bad behavior. I think Booman does a fine job of policing his own blog, that is not a job I’m interested in.
I am interested in what you have to say, and may respond or may not. I don’t believe that sharing your thoughts is a waste of time – you never know when something you say or do has had an effect on someone else.
We are blessed with a fine community here that offers love and equal opportunity to all. It’s a growing and learning opportunity. Stick around and share it with us.
Allow me to echo everything you said. I have a concern about TU’s becoming a more active “police force,” in that it could develop into “the Armando problem.”
I also read the diary yesterday, but didn’t comment because I didn’t have a chance to form my thoughts into something more coherent and elaborate than the previous sentence. But I do want to let the diarist know I am still pondering the issue, and I suspect others are as well. Monkeying with the site is a big deal, not done lightly. I don’t know what if anything we should do at this point; I’m still listening and thinking.
I also think folks tend to have a bit of burnout after one of these episodes, which tends to dampen comments after a certain point.
The Armando problem is one of the reasons I thought this possible solution might be a fair and reasonable way to give people a way to air their disagreements off the comment thread of the original diary when the comment devolve into personal attacks, rude, obnoxious and terrible behavior.
I really hated wading through some of the long did/did not comments on Dkos to read the rest of the comments that offered more insight or were relevant to the subject of the original diary.
I burned out on the constant viscious snark type comments which is why I moved into the Green Zone. Now I go over to Dkos without logging in and just read the diaries by the authors who consistantly post stuff that is informative, useful or presents a perspective that is original and unique.
Most of the regular authors I like to read are here in green anyways and the comment threads are smaller in size.
Got a real surprise when I checked my profile last week and discover that I had achieved TU status.
I’m also sure the Booman dislikes policing this site and like anyone he doesn’t have the time to check every single diary comment tread on the site everyday.
Maybe someone else will come up with a better solution. Dkos turns me off when everyone starts to act like 5 year old kids. That’s why I called this possible solution “Time Out”.
Also see the comment by blueneck up thread about the tech aspects of programming this type of thing into a site. I guess it’s much harder than I thought it would be.
I wouldn’t necessarily call your idea the most difficult feature upgrade that it is possible to imagine, but it wouldn’t be trivial either. The problem in many cases is that a small change in one place leads to a cascade of rearranging eveything else to allow the new feature to fit into the grand scheme. I haven’t looked at the ‘scoop’ software code, but I do have some idea of the complexity that it must involve. Anyways, I do think its good to consider improvements, and I identify with your mindset about fixing things!
A very dear old BT friend has just introduced me to this 1981 speech by Bernice Johnson Reagon about coalition building – thought you might find it interesting.
sweet honey in the rock
ive seen them 4 times…including my honeymoon….my husband and i went to a womens music (lesbian)festival…7000 lesbians and him and i….best music ever….scenery wasnt bad either.
Thanks for the link.
I read the whole speech(?). Seems like all the players in these current conflicts could stand to read this speech and learn something from it instead of just providing the world with more senseless killing. Sigh!
I also read the diary yesterday, but didn’t think it was a usable solution, not to mention that I am a programmer, and I never cease to be amazed at how easy some people think it is to change existing software to accomodate new features. I still don’t think your proposed features would actually be used and I’m sorry you feel the way you do about no one wanting a new mechanical solution to some people’s attitude problems here. I do not believe that some spiffy new ratings system or some new community patrolling force will stop some people from leaving ugly comments. Nor will it somehow magically force TU’s to do their jobs.
I’m guilty of being too deeply in shock over the hatred I saw being channeled around to do anything about it. I’m sorry that I did not use my existing TU status to intervene, but I can’t change that now. Rest assured I will try to do better in the future, using the existing mechanisms.
Thanks, this is I wanted to know. If is this type of a system would be an easy sort of thing to add to a site solution or hard to do type of solution.
The last time I did programming was in 8088 land (turbo Pascal, basic, assembler… Yeeee!)and it seems that something’s are much easier to do but other things are still very hard and a real pain to even attempt to do.
I thought that having some sort of arbitration mechanism in place might curtail the thread devolving in utter pointlessness.
But on the other hand maybe we need these people to shake things up every once in while to keep everyone from becoming complacent.
I really do appreciate your efforts. It is important to consider improvements. It is however, imho, a futile exercise to try to herd cats – usually 🙂
My better half and I have 5 of the fuzz faces plus two outdoor regulars.
When my better half leaves a room she gets a regular task force. One on point. One on each flank and two trailers. We don’t have to herd cats since they form what I call Task Force E.
Of course all of them only talk to me when the better half isn’t around. Food or wanting to go out.
Sigh!
As a former programmer myself, I was going to say the same thing. It’s always so easy, on paper…!
if its that people dont care.
but some of us dont have time to deal with the minute details of managing this site….the issues just arent that important to some people…we just read what we find interesting and move on.
but if you have the time and want to deal with it, go for it…you dont need a committee to analyze it to death do you?
I know it not that people don’t care. What bothers me is how even talking about real solutions which might be hard to come terms with or are seemingly minute go largely ignored in these times of infotainment.
If we can’t even fix the smaller problems how are the world wide problems which affect everyone ever going to be fixed?
Thanks for the advise on the edible panties. Always thought that product was a real bad idea.
I also read your diary yesterday. This AM I thought to post a comment and it was gone.
I don’t know if your process would work or not. I have absolutely no idea how changing programming is done.
What I was going to suggest is that you direct this to BooMan. People have had discussions on site changes for various reasons. One that comes up now and then is whether to recommend the FBC or not or to put it in a different place on the Home page.
Though the discussion may go round and round, if BooMan isn’t involved or even aware of the discussion, then nothing will get changed for sure. And even with all the discussing, BooMan may reject the suggested change.
Thanks for taking the time to come up with a solution.
I didn’t go to Booman with this because I didn’t know if the programming was possible to start with and this matter would concern and affect all the people on the site.
So as the comments prove it’s better to propose a matter such as this one to the community for feedback to discover if the idea is even workable or considered an acceptable solution.
Sorry I deleted the original diary but it was one of those days where I felt like I was beating my head against a wall.
Heh. Seems like we all read it but didn’t comment. To me it sounded way too complicated and unworkable.
Ditto. :>)
That’s what I was trying to find out. Thanks, maybe it will spark someone into coming up with a different but more workable solution.
In my comment upthread I forgot to say thank you for the time and concern and effort that went into developing a proposed solution, whether folks like it or not. You deserve a thank you for that, regardless, and I should have said that yesterday when I read the diary. I apologize for not doing so at the time.
One of my problems is that all my life has been spent fixing and repairing the things that people break. So I’m always looking for solutions to problems.
80% of the time the problem is so stupid that when you do discover the cause of the problem you hit yourself in the head for missing it. Once you identify the real problem you find that you have also discovered the solution which most all the time is an easy fix.
I forget that for the most part the rest of the world is only concerned with who/what is to blame for the problem. In a lot of cases this is the first service guy they contact. How the logic of blame works is illogical.
I’ve learned to ignore this so that I can concentrate on finding the problem and fixing it as quickly as possible so then instead being the guy blamed for whatever is broken it is now repaired and works. The customer is now happy and life returns to whatever they call normality in their life.
So no apology is necessary. The comment you made up thread showed that you invested the time to entertain a possible solution.
In my book (and this some say is one of my many faults) identifying the problem and finding a solution that works is more important to me than fixing blame for whatever caused the problem.
I’m with you on that last point. Assigning blame never solved anything. But equally dangerous, in my opinion, is to just fix things “going forward.” Without accountability and an appropriate response, bad things will continue to happen.
I think of the Kennedy assassination. Sure – you can get better secret service plans in place to make it harder to kill the President. But shouldn’t we have spent more effort trying to find out who really killed the President, so as to dissuade others from thinking they could get away with it? Arguably, the assassinations of Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy were made possible by the lack of serious investigation into the death of John Kennedy.
So yes – fixing blame rarely solves the problem. But I think that doesn’t mean we should ignore blame altogether. Especially in matters of politics, we need to get to the root of a problem and fix THAT, so that the problem does not simply reoccur.