Forgive me for this but Alan Dershowitz’s children should be hit by a 5000 lb. bomb made by an American military-industrial corporation, sold to Israel, and misfired into his home. Then he can talk to me. I will offer my sincere condolences. Then we will get drunk and talk about relative culpability. I’m sorry Alan. You’re scum. Among the people in history that would gladly bitch-slap you are Jesus, Buddha, Zoroaster, Socrates, Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Jr., John Lewis, Nelson Mendala, Bishop Tutu, Pope John Paul II, and me. We’d all like to smack you for being a prick.
About The Author
BooMan
Martin Longman a contributing editor at the Washington Monthly. He is also the founder of Booman Tribune and Progress Pond. He has a degree in philosophy from Western Michigan University.
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Yes I left the site, but holy fuck Booman, you have totally jumped the shark with this post. Wishing that a 5000 lb would hit his children? Insisting that history’s most tolerant and forgiving religious people would “bitch slap” him?
Wow. Unbelievable.
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by just reading as so many do. Many interested parties out there in the global community are watching over the frog pond. Catnip, you are still part of human internet sphere. Always appreciate your thoughts and presence …
(((catnip)))
PS Oh that 5,000 pounder? Just hypothetically speaking of course, for the debate afterwards as to the value of the civilian casualty. In all probability a minor loss …
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."▼ ▼ ▼ MY DIARY
Catnip, I know you choose your words carefully. That’s why I’m inquiring here: Did you really mean “jumped the shark”? As contrasted with, say, “went beyond the bounds” or equivalent phrases?
As I understand it, to “jump the shark” is to make a transparently desperate attempt to resurrect a failing enterprise by making a superficially spectacular gesture. (As in the “Happy Days” episode that inspired the term.)
Is that what you intended to communicate? Do we have different understandings of what “jumping the shark” is? Was it a phrase that you typed out in haste, and would like to retract? Etc.
I’d just like to know if your charge of “jumping the shark” was what it seemed to be.
Respectfully yours,
.
are here again! You’re never too old to learn.
Hmmm I didn’t know the expression to jump the shark.
Interesting, nevertheless.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."▼ ▼ ▼ MY DIARY
I’ve wished Cheney a heart attack more than once this week as for Bush, I’ll spare you the gory details. Bad thoughts don’t kill kids, American made bombs do.
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Zeeland sounds pretty … Dutch!
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."▼ ▼ ▼ MY DIARY
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Dershowitz attended Yeshiva University High School, where he played on the basketball team. He was a rebellious student, often criticized by his teachers. The school’s career placement center, however, told him that he had talent and was capable of becoming an advertising executive, funeral director, or salesman. He decided, he said, to do something that “requires a big mouth and no brain … so I became a lawyer.”
(The Huffington Post) — I join the applause for the targeted killings of these two mass-murdering terrorist leaders (Al Zarqawi and Basayev). But I also applaud the targeted killing of anti-Israel terrorists who are engaged in ongoing attacks against Israeli women and children. I regret when innocent people are killed in the process of targeting terrorists, but the fault for that lies entirely with the terrorists who hide behind innocent women and children in order to induce Israel to kill civilians. Yes, Palestinian terrorists want Israel to kill Palestinian women and children. That is part of their strategy. “As one diplomat told the New York Times, “Palestinians have mastered the harsh arithmetic of pain … Palestinian casualties play in their favor and Israel casualties play in their favor. Non-violence doesn’t pay.” (See my June 25, 2006 Jerusalem Post article “Palestinian terrorists want Israel to kill Palestinian civilians“.)
Dershowitz, a Yale Law Professor, thinks he gets a free ride by adding a disclaimer for all critics at the end of his article in the Huffington Post:
Again I know that any post relating to Israel will provoke some of the worst anti-Israel and anti-Semitic bigots to crawl out from under their rocks. It will also provoke other bigots to accuse me of supporting torture–something I adamantly oppose and am seeking to prevent as seen here.
But I will not remain silent in the face of this anticipated bigotry.
A bit OT when I googled for ADL and Dershowitz :: ADL Smear Campaign
I suppose by shelling the Gaza beach, Dershowitz would argue as permissable pre-emption. These civilian deaths are of less value, as there is a likelyhood that in the near future these Palestinian children will use their democratic right to cast a vote for Hamas. By its nature this would place them in abating terrorism and the destruction of the state of Israel. Pre-emption is the way to go. Go Bush Go Condi – have you not a position on Gonzalez’ team to permit torture?
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."▼ ▼ ▼ MY DIARY
Oh Dear Gods…that is what we face. I cry for every life lost and for every dream shattered. As I watch this travesty unfold, I just cringe in horror. And as I hear more and more people say, “well, that’s war” and “one more future terrorist bites the dust”, I just lose faith in America and the human race.
“For the love of God, Monseignor”, make it stop.
Yuck. That’s an ugly post. Dershowitz really is scum and, ironically, using the exact same logic that supporters of terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians use – that is opinions that he seems to believe make you a fit candidate for getting blown up. But nobody deserves to be killed for their opinions, and to suggest their children do is beyond the pale.
What I’d like would be for someone could go through his scholarly work with a fine tooth comb like people did with Ward Churchill to see if there are any grounds for firing him.
Forgive me for pointing out the obvious, but I doubt the litany of people you mentioned at the end of your post would have an iota of agreement with your first sentence. Just a hunch.
Yeah, they’re probably not much into bitch slapping either. Just another hunch.
Booman will not smite. He has no bombs to drop on peoples’ children and never will (other than his share of those funded by Our Tax Dollars).Yes it’s a nasty little diary but I believe he’s: 1)too angry to write straight,a state I recognize well, and/or 2) saying that Dershowitz couldn’t figure out what’s going on unless his own kin was under the bomb. I’m of the opinion that even that wouldn’t work.
I often rant about wanting bad things to happen to bad people despite my loving nature. Why? Because I’m often an idiot as are most humans. Fortunately it’s just words, just the venting of a pained heart.
There’s a third possibility. A while back someone (I forget who) made the rec list over at Big Orange by writing a post about how all Republicans are scum and should be thrown under the bus, etc. etc. About half of the respondents jumped down this diarist’s throat for being such a hatemonger; the other half, the ones who read the provided links, figured out fairly quickly that the diarist was just throwing words back at the Republicans that the Republicans had used on Democrats.
Was BooMan’s post regrettable? Angrily worded? Perhaps. I don’t know. I just woke up and have other stuff I have to go do, so this is basically a drive-by post. But he has a valid point in there.
Perhaps Derschowitz should remember his Old Testament history a bit. After having smitten Egypt with nine horrible plagues, G-d said through Moses that the Pharaoh himself would dictate the manner of the tenth plague. So by ordering the killing of the firstborn of Israel, Pharaoh brought the tenth plague upon Egypt himself. Now I’m not saying that G-d is going to arrange for Derschowitz’ children to be bombed, but when we call for these horrible things to happen to others, we have no moral ground to stand on when similar things happen to us. Something for all of us to consider.
good points.
the problem with Alan’s argument is that he doesn’t agree that there is any moral equivalency between his children and the children being maimed and killed in Lebanon. He fatuously argues that all the civilians have been warned to leave the area and if they remain they are complicit. That’s pathetic. And since Israel has bombed the country from one end to the other, the part about being warned isn’t even true.
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Hezbollah rockets kill 2 in Israel
The stricken minibus was carrying 16 people fleeing the village of Tairi, working their way through the mountains for the southern port city of Tyre. A missile hit the bus near the village of Yaatar, killing three and wounding the rest, security officials said. The wounded were taken to hospitals in Tyre.
≈ Cross-posted from my diary — Diplomacy Gaining Support in ME ≈
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."▼ ▼ ▼ MY DIARY
NO children EVER deserve to be hit by bombs.
I feel bitch slapped… just seeing this on the front page of Booman Trib.
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NO children EVER deserve to be hit by bombs.
well scribe, that is exactly the point BooMan was making by his angry response to dear mr. Dershowitz.
Reading some extreme nastiness of Dershowitz, a Yale Law Professor and top-dollar criminal lawyer, about the equality and value of human life by what the Israelis determine as accidental death or acceptable collateral damage by a strike intended for a ‘terrorist’. THAT is the topic of BooMan’s diary.
These law professors hiding behind political words, similar to Gonzales con suis in the Bush administration, make it possible for WAR CRIMES to happen. I for one do not wish these criminals a long and serene life.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."▼ ▼ ▼ MY DIARY
I am well aware of that. I read the article, and agree completely with you and Boo that this writer is so far beyond beyond dispicable he could never find his way back. And I certainly have no wish to see his kind avoid whatever consequences they deserve.
And I STILL feel bitch slapped by seeing this post.
I am asking myself why, even as I am writing. The immediate answer is it horrified me to see any of us using that kind of hate language in public, even as a expression of a good mans primal pain. Do I understand that pain. You damned betcha I do. I am filled to the absolute brim with it myself.
But I cannot help hearing the echo of Boo’s angry words being screamed out of the throats of Iragi parents whose kids were killed by our bombs. Ugly angry words of hate that by being said at all, only lead to more hate, and more violence and more wars, no matter how “understandable” it that these words were screamed at all.
I have a choice about what I do with my own unbearable pain. I have trusted others with whom I can “let it all hang out” in whatever kind of ugly language it needs to come out in. Privately. Where the ugliness of whatever hatefilled words I need to use cannot add the the sum total of hatred in this world.
I’m sorry. But it was meant to make a point to Alan. I obviously do not want anything bad to happen to his children. I want him to think for a second about his callousness.
So then the bitch slap I felt could be seen as just “collateral damage” from your need to strike back at someone, in order to get him to think?
Sorry Boo..but I have about had all I can take of watching even righteous anger expressed via the need for knee jerk revenge.
I am also aware that my strong reaction to your post doesn’t all belong to you, but is a accumulation of my own pain and anguish, because everywhere I look on my beloved earth, people are killing each other out of the need for revenge, and oh my god, how many innocents are being blown apart because it.
I need a blog break. I need to look away awhile, to see if I can find my center again.
I understand.
We are talking about 600,000 displaced people, 380 killed, thousands injured, billions of dollars of destruction.
So, Dershowitz’s ‘no moral equivalency’ remarks got under my skin. In my opinion, he needs an object lesson and a firm slap.
You write: “So, Dershowitz’s ‘no moral equivalency’ remarks got under my skin. In my opinion, he needs an object lesson”
Your anger and even your desire to punish him are fully understandable. It is your choice of how you expressed this via hate filled, vengeful language that I see as serving no good for anyone, and only adding to the tidal wave of hatred we are all swimming in now, as well as causing some of your own readers a considerable pain.
Does the fact that hate speech is “understandable or “justified” make it ok to use here?
I sincerely hope not.
Well, I apologize again. But, it wasn’t meant to be taken literally. What man would get drunk with someone that just advocated the bombing of his children?
I think everyone knows me well enough to know I was merely making a rhetorical point.
It was stark because that is the way I chose to make my point.
If Alan finds it offensive he might understand why I find his rhetoric so offensive.
Billmon’s longer take on it is even more offensive, but no less true.
Sounds like a sort of “Yes” to my question, Boo. Thank you for your apology and response.
I am off to consult with the squirrels.
The correct term is ’empathy’. Dershowitz doesn’t have it for non-Israeli’s. Your post would have been better, and more to the point you wanted to make had you worked in the ‘e’ word.
Bilmon’s take on the Dershowitz op-ed is devastating.
Slightly over the top ol Boo yet I have to admit that you have obviously stirred up a hornets nest. Well, I think that possibly that’s agood thing for all.
I think that given the corporate lock on the media, acts such as this are the only way that the progressive point of view will ever have a chance of being heard. Granted that there are no justifications for the killing of children and there is no way that you or anyone else can justify that wish, the responses to your post may well contain the kernal of some successful ideas.
I do think however that these acts and statements may well have to get even more radical cause the bastards in control have zero scruples and they know that if they lose control of either house or both houses, the sht will hit the fan.
Booman’s primal scream of rage, and pain, and frustration is really ugly to face and completely predictable. He’s a good man in the troes of horrible feelings.
Situations of war, violence, and hatred nearly inevitably trigger a violent, hateful reaction. This, in turn, triggers more of the same. The circle goes on and on and on.
I hate seeing this diary, but I do understand it.
Yesterday at work, some orthodox Jews came in. I treated them courteously and gave them them best customer service I could. But when they left, I found my hands trembling with rage. I was having a horrible, hateful reaction to people I did not know at all. I don’t know how they conduct their lives, who they vote for, what they teach their kids. So there I was, little Miss Peace and Love, trembling in rage at people I didn’t even know. It was a humbling experience and made me realize that despite my self-righteousness, I have a long way to go to promoting the causes of peace.
When we become that which we are fighting…
then that which we are fighting has won.
I didn’t post this diary as a response – as I hadn’t read this FP entry when I submitted it – but it might well serve as one. I understand the reaction, but this FP post is full of heat, when it could have shed light. A missed opportunity.
Booman, Alan really pissed in your beer. I understand the frustration, and certainly do not understand the non-action of the rest of the world on this clear cut violation of the Geneva Conventions. Does someone have to attack a “white” country in order for a rebuke. WTF!
Add me to the biatch slap list. Sheesh.
Well said, I empathise with your antipathy. Dershowitz and his ilk should have to register as agents of a foreign government. Our regime’s support for Israeli intransegence, our financial backing and supply line is a travesty of epic proportions. We are all made culpable for the actions and support of our government.
We as responsible citizens need to organize and demand an end to this madness.
Alan Dershowitz’s children should be hit by a 5000 lb. bomb made by an American military-industrial corporation, sold to Israel, and misfired into his home.
I know we all have our differences here, but I thought children being hit by bombs was something we were all against.
Don’t let them suck you down to their level, Boo. You’re better than that.
Nothing wrong with being angry; we all are. Might I suggest a trip to the beach, a banana split, or a roll in the hay? Blow off some steam and treat yourself. No more talk of killing kids. Not cool.
Also not cool: “bitch-slap.”
Go buy a gorgeous bouquet of flowers and give them to the first elderly lady you see. You’ll both feel better and it’ll repair your karma a bit.
Given the boatloads of anger we’ve seen at various outposts around the blogosphere lately, I think this is good advice for everyone.
I just pulled a book off the shelf that I read a few years ago – “Revenge – a story of hope” by Laura Blumenfeld. She’s Jewish American and her father was shot (although not killed) in Israel by a Palestinian named Omar, who was caught and put in prison.
In the book she goes to the middle east on a pilgrimage to learn how she can get revenge. She meets Omar’s family posing as a journalist and develops a close relationship with them. In the end, she testifies at his trial asking for his release from prison after getting a promise from him to never hurt anyone again. Here’s what she wrote:
“Transformation was the word I had written on the scrap of paper…. the shooter – my symbol of evil – could be good. But it would take a radical act, something impossibly optimistic, to transform him. That act would leave me vulnerable, and possibly the fool. It would be riskier than anything I had done so far, but my mother’s faith in the goodness of people gave me the courage to try.”
She never ONCE gave an inch on the immorality of what Omar had done. But she made herself vulnerable and risked being the fool for the possibility of transformation.
I hope this doesn’t come off as sounding “preachy.” I’m honestly trying to sort out my feelings in thinking about different responses to outrage, revenge, and the possibilities for peace.
Yet another example of lefty insanity – expect a visit from the secret service. Remember there’s a double standard in political debate in this country – the right wing can be as vitriolic as they want and threaten actual violence and they’re simply participating in political discourse (just ask Karl).
On the other hand, expect this post to live in infamy as an example of the out of control, hate mongering, anti-semitic left wing…
Guess it’s also a question of whether you want to blog to people who know you and know what you mean vs people that are new or don’t necessarily agree with everything you say… For some of them it will be over the top and you’ll lose them, which is a pity. You’re talented enough to express your rage without turning people off with what some would consider over the top (not jumping the shark)…
Lamont supports Israel, I eagerly await you denouncing him as a killer and bitch-slapping him.
Apparently, using your logic and vitriol, Mr. Lamont is scum who should have a bomb dropped on his children. (if he has any, I don’t know)
Right. Call me when Lamont backs Dershowitz up.
I don’t think jumped the shark quite covers it. Seriously people.. When we take our domestic political disagreements so far as to wish harm or death on those Americans with whom we disagree. I’m sorry but you’ve then crossed the line that separates the rational from the irrational. The moderate from the fundamentalist. Sane from the insane. You’re no longer operating in the realm of the political. You’ve now entered the realm of the pathological. And no, you can’t shrug it off as just being passionate about what you believe. I’m passionate about what I believe, as are many others. But I, along with many others, understand that what I believe is just my opinion. Shaped as it is through my experiences and understanding of things. As such.. I have to acknowledge the subjective nature of my opinion. Accept the possibility that it may be wrong in part or in total. And KNOW that no matter how strongly I feel about anything. Neither I nor anyone else for that matter holds a patent on knowing what is right or wrong. Such absolutism is for fundamentalists and their pathological next of kin who are so absolute in their righteousness that they find it totally reasonable to express publicly their wish that harm come to those who differ with them politically.
Oh but it’s just a joke some say.. Oh please..We’ve all heard or read this crap time after time coming from supposedly progressive minded people. There’s nothing progressive about this mindset what so ever. It’s the definition of regressive. Primitive man settled his family disputes by killing, harming or banishing the offending other.. Great company you choose to keep.
With supporters like this.. Its no wonder progressive candidates have a hard time getting any traction with much of the electorate. Those people don’t want to hear the message because they’re completely turned off by the Neanderthals who claim to agree with it. Maybe think about that next time you’re wishing death upon some politician while standing in a room full of people. Most of the laughter you think so approving is just polite.. Really most of em now think you’re a wack job, head case.
MS