Unmoored from the Democratic Party, Joe Lieberman is free to show his true colors. And he isn’t sounding like he is acquainted with what we might call sanity.
“If we just pick up like
Tom Harkin-[IA]Barbara Boxer-[CA]John Kerry-[MA]Edward M. Kennedy-[MA]Russell Feingold-[WI]Robert C. Byrd-[WV]Ned Lamont wants us to do, get out by a date certain, it will be taken as a tremendous victory by the same people who wanted to blow up these planes in this plot hatched in England,” Mr. Lieberman said at a campaign event in Waterbury, Conn. “It will strengthen them, and they will strike again.”
“I’m worried that too many people [Christropher Dodd-[CT], Hillary Clinton-[NY], Diane Feinstein-[CA], Barack Obama-[IL], Joseph Biden-[DE], Jay Rockefeller-[WV], Jack Reed-[RI]], both in politics and out, don’t appreciate the seriousness of the threat to American security and the evil of the enemy that faces us,” Mr. Lieberman said at the Waterbury event. He called that threat “more evil, or as evil, as Nazism and probably more dangerous than the Soviet Communists we fought during the long cold war.”
I think Ned Lamont’s response to this was spot on.
“Wow,” Mr. Lamont said, after twice asking a reporter to read Mr. Lieberman’s remark about him. “That comment sounds an awful lot like Vice President Cheney’s comment on Wednesday. Both of them believe our invasion of Iraq has a lot to do with 9/11. That’s a false premise.”
To say the least, it is a false premise. I’m also quite amazed to see Lieberman equate the evil of Islamic terrorism to that of the Nazis. I’m even more amazed to see him suggest that they represent a greater danger than the Soviet Union did. That’s unhinged fearmongering.
Just out of curiosity, I went back this morning and re-read Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s speech to the nation after the attack on Pearl Harbor [posted below the fold]. I was looking, in particular, for any appeal to fear. I was looking for any demonization of the enemy, any accusations that they were ‘evil’. I was looking to see what he appealed to in order to rally the nation for what would be our greatest struggle as a nation. I didn’t find anything that resembled the bullshit that Joe Lieberman is spewing.
You know what? He just said this, “The facts of yesterday speak for themselves. The people of the United States have already formed their opinions and well understand the implications to the very life and safety of our nation.” That is how things stood on September 12, 2001. We didn’t need George W. Bush to explain to us that, “Hostilities exist. There is no blinking at the fact that our people, our territory and our interests are in grave danger.” We understood that. All we required was an explanation for who attacked us, why we were attacked, and how we might dissuade people from attacking us again.
We quickly learned that the terrorists were natives of Jordan, the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt. All of these countries are formally allied with the United States and have been allied with us dating back to the Cold War. Clearly, we were dealing with a political statement about our relationship with the rulers of those nations.
But we were not told this. Instead, we were told that we were attacked because these ‘folks’ hate our freedom. That was the first betrayal. The second betrayal was suggesting that Saddam Hussein had anything to do with 9/11, or that regime change in Iraq would matter to dissident groups in Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia.
Let’s talk about freedom for a moment, because it is important. When we look at a group like al-Qaeda, we need to keep two things in our head simultaneously. First, they want to change conditions in their countries, but are powerless to do so through traditional political means. Their powerlessness arises from the powerful internal security forces used to protect the House of Saud, the Hashemite King of Jordan, and the President-for-Life Hosni Mubarak. The second thing to remember is that these terrorists are not looking to replace their despots with Jeffersonian democracies, but with Islamic theocracies. It is in this latter sense that they lose the right to the sympathy a Republic like the United States might feel for those yearning to topple tyranny.
Bush has spelled out a vision for the Middle East wherein the people will have participatory democracy. The theory is that they will opt for Jeffersonian democracy if given the ballot, as opposed to opting for something more akin to what Usama bin-Laden wants. But we have had three electoral processes in the Middle East since Saddam was toppled. In Lebanon, Hizbollah gained seats and was awarded ministries. In Palestine, Hamas emerged victorious, leading to Israel’s imprisonment of a big chunk of their parliament. In Iraq, they chose to elect theocratic Shi’a parties aligned with Axis-of-Evil member, Iran.
Events such as these are world changing. And they are complicated. We have a President that, prior to deciding to invade Iraq, didn’t even know that the Islam has a Sunni branch and a Shi’a Branch. I know that Joe Lieberman was aware of that, but it does not seem to have better informed his thinking.
The terrorism we face today may, indeed, have a broader ideological basis than the pre-9/11 terrorism. That terrorism was about our cozy relationship with tyrants in the Middle East. The new terrorism may be about our complicity in the killing of hundreds of Lebanese, and the deaths of tens and tens of thousands of civilians in Iraq. It may be simple revenge.
But to compare jihadist ideology to Nazism is a gross exaggeration. Ahmadinejad and other firebrand’s rhetoric aside, the goals of the terrorists remain political. They pose no existential threat to the United States, and they pose no realistic existential threat to Israel.
As for the Soviet Union, their record does not compare favorably with the record of Khomeini’s Iran, Assad’s Syria, or with Hizbollah and Hamas. The Soviet Union killed millions of their own citizens and ruthlessly oppressed Ukrainians, Lithuanians, Georgians, Uzbeks, Kazakhs, Moldovans, Poles, Czechs, Hungarians, Romanians, Slovaks, Jews, and other ethnic groups. They had enough nuclear weapons to blow up the world and authorized their use in Cuba in 1962.
Marxist-Leninism represented a coherent, non-sectarian, ethnic, or national ideology that had broad appeal. Islamic terrorism remains divided along sectarian, ethnic, and national lines. There is no prospect of an Islamic ruler uniting the terrorists under their banner and going forth to oppress non-Muslims. There is no prospect of the terrorists capturing any territory other than by the very ballot box that Bush cynically pushes as the solution.
There is no sense in which Islamic terrorism represents even the tiniest threat to us when compared to the Soviet Union. Nor does it pose a similar threat to the Soviet’s brand of communism for the people under their thumb. To suggest otherwise is to either display the grossest ignorance of history and current conditions, or to engage in the basest of political fearmongering.
The solution to Islamic terrorism begins in the occupied territories of Israel. Once that conlict has a settlement, the swamp that breeds terrorism will be largely drained. But we will still have to worry so long as our allies in the Middle East are oppressive and corrupt and we are seen as their enablers and protectors.
Joe Lieberman has now shown that he is little different from Dick Cheney in his vision of the Middle East. In both cases they say our very nation is in peril, and yet neither of them call upon us to make any sacrifice. When Roosevelt saw an existential threat emerging overseas he acted (and it required leadership).
The draft began in October 1940. By the early summer of 1941, President Roosevelt asked the U.S. Congress to extend the term of duty for the draftees beyond twelve months. The United States House of Representatives approved the extension by a single vote. The Senate approved it by a wider margin, and Roosevelt signed the bill into law.
For Cheney and Lieberman to compare the threat of terrorism to Nazism and the Soviet Empire, and to see Iraq go down in flames without even calling for a draft…is about the most irresponsible thing I’ve ever seen. If they are right, then they will have lost the war and the country because they couldn’t disrupt our college kids’ plans. But, they are wrong.
December 8, 1941
Yesterday, December 7, 1941 – a date which will live in infamy – the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan.
The United States was at peace with that nation and, at the solicitation of Japan, was still in conversation with its Government and its Emperor looking toward the maintenance of peace in the Pacific. Indeed, one hour after Japanese air squadrons had commenced bombing in Oahu, the Japanese Ambassador to the United States and his colleague delivered to the Secretary of State a formal reply to a recent American message. While this reply stated that it seemed useless to continue the existing diplomatic negotiations, it contained no threat or hint of war or armed attack.
It will be recorded that the distance of Hawaii from Japan makes it obvious that the attack was deliberately planned many days or even weeks ago. During the intervening time the Japanese Government has deliberately sought to deceive the United States by false statements and expressions of hope for continued peace.
The attack yesterday on the Hawaiian Islands has caused severe damage to American naval and military forces. Very many American lives have been lost. In addition American ships have been reported torpedoed on the high seas between San Francisco and Honolulu.
Yesterday the Japanese Government also launched an attack against Malaya. Last night Japanese forces attacked Hong Kong. Last night Japanese forces attacked Guam. Last night Japanese forces attacked the Philippine Islands. Last night the Japanese attacked Wake Island. This morning the Japanese attacked Midway Island.
Japan has, therefore, undertaken a surprise offensive extending throughout the Pacific area. The facts of yesterday speak for themselves. The people of the United States have already formed their opinions and well understand the implications to the very life and safety of our nation.
As Commander-in-Chief of the Army and Navy, I have directed that all measures be taken for our defense.
Always will we remember the character of the onslaught against us. No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people in their righteous might will win through to absolute victory.
I believe I interpret the will of the Congress and of the people when I assert that we will not only defend ourselves to the uttermost but will make very certain that this form of treachery shall never endanger us again.
Hostilities exist. There is no blinking at the fact that our people, our territory and our interests are in grave danger.
With confidence in our armed forces – with the unbounded determination of our people – we will gain the inevitable triumph – so help us God.
I ask that the Congress declare that since the unprovoked and dastardly attack by Japan on Sunday, December seventh, a state of war has existed between the United States and the Japanese Empire.”
Brilliant use of FDR to compare and contrast what Lieberman, Bush et al have done to exploit 9/11 and everything else that has followed.
In fact, just brilliant period.
That’s a first-rate smackdown of Lieberman. Sad to see him going off the deep end like this. It’s important to keep defusing the crap that Lieberman, Cheney and other similar idiots keep spewing out. Somebody needs to hammer away every day that the war in Iraq has nothing to do with national security.
I can’t quite put my finger on why, but it’s starting to feel as though only W, Cheney, Chertoff, and Gonzalez don’t realize that the whole country (well, except maybe the 33%) now sees through their blatant political posturing. Or so I thought. Now I’ll add Lieberman to that list.
I say keep hammering, because that’s what it takes to make sure nobody forgets how risible their message really is.
Very nice big-picture perspective, Boo. What the the memory engineering going on 24/7 in this country, history-laden examinations like this become absolutely vital if we want any rational discussion to remain possible.
My only slight disagreement is that I think you somewhat overestimate the USSR’s real danger to the US. Most of that was propaganda, too, used the same way terrorism is used now.
I don’t know how you can say that given the Cuban Missile Crisis. What greater danger could there be than armageddon?
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Should we be worried about the threat from organised terrorism or is it simply a phantom menace being used to stop society from falling apart?
● The Guardian – The making of the terror myth
● ‘Armageddon’ Plan Was Put Into Action on 9/11, Clarke Says
● James Mann – Rumsfeld’s War
Kissinger – Rumsfeld – Cheney – Neo-Conservatism
Conservatives were convinced that Kissinger’s policy of detente with the Soviet Union would ultimately embolden the Russians to fight and win a nuclear world war.
So a friendly hawk phoned Rumsfeld and asked him if he had ever heard of Albert Wohlstetter, at the Rand Corporation. Rumsfeld said no. The friend told Rumsfeld to ask Wohlstetter to lunch — and to make sure the press knew about it. A low-profile but eminently influential shaper of nuclear strategy, Wohlstetter was spiritual godfather to the Cold War’s atomic hawks; his Rand Corporation reports had been a guiding light to hard-line strategists since the 1950s. Wohlstetter flew in from Rand for a two-and-half-hour lunch with Rumsfeld — and “the hawks were rapturous,” says Rumsfeld’s comrade.
His conservative credentials established, Rumsfeld began to chip away at Kissinger’s access and public image. Some of Kissinger’s partisans in the press corps found Rumsfeld’s campaign against the K so heavy-handed they virtually outed him as Kissinger’s nemesis, by making Rummy’s identity as a Kissinger-bashing source obvious. Then, on November 1, 1975, Ford fired William Colby, the director of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), and Schlesinger, the secretary of defense, replacing them with George H.W. Bush and Rumsfeld, respectively. Though Kissinger remained as secretary of state, Ford stripped him of his position as national-security adviser.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."
▼ ▼ ▼ MY DIARY
Boo, the Soviets were just trying to do what we were doing in their front yard and around the world. There’s no reason to think they were getting ready to nuke us, which they could have easily done without Cuban bases. Not saying Stalin wasn’t a bad guy and all, but the Soviet regime went down without trying to take us or anybody else with it. They still had plenty of nukes (still do), so if they were such a danger why didn’t they use them? The reality remains that the US is the only nation in history to use nukes as offensive weapons.
Boo, the Soviets were just trying to do what we were doing in their front yard and around the world. There’s no reason to think they were getting ready to nuke us, which they could have easily done without Cuban bases. Not saying Stalin wasn’t a bad guy and all, but the Soviet regime went down without trying to take us or anybody else with it.
I think Boo’s point, and I totally agree, is that the Soviet threat was more than just nuclear weapons and conventional military. It was also ideological.
From Viet Nam to Korea to El Salvador to Grenada, the “Cold War” was fought by proxy to KEEP the Soviets at bay and keep Communism at bay. I’m not condoning the US in any way, but imagine if the U.S. had done nothing and Communism had triumphed not just in China, Laos and Viet Nam but also in Nicaragua, Chile, Granada, Angola, Yemen, Mozambique, Greece, Italy, etc. It would be quite a different world today!
That ideological “opponent” also had significant military means to back up its spread. Meanwhile radical, terrorism type Islam poses a threat to western democracies an order of magnitude less significant.
The WORSE case scenario for radical Islam: a few thousand civilians get killed.
The WORSE case scenario for Soviet-era communism: most of the planet, either through intimidiation, military coercion or sympathy, becomes aligned with the USSR, eventually leading to a military showdown between the two sides that COULD and almost DID involve the use of nuclear weapons.
Which one is/was the worst threat?
Pax
I just realized how ignorant my OWN self is hehe 😉
Not “WORSE” case, but WORST. Whew…
Pax
Great diary Boo…it continues as always to amaze me how anyone can equate terrorists groups or wannbe groups to a completely structured threat from a country like Germany under Hitler or the Soviet Union..really boggles the mind if you start to think about someone supposedly hiding in a cave to have some sort of world domination power that can somehow take over countries, command armies and do anything remotely like the SU or Germany. But the steady drumbeat of the neo-crazies with the compliant MSM has convinced the public that this is what could happen.
As for Lieberman, maybe we’ll see him deteriorate even further into some sort of Zell Miller frothing at the mouth moment and calling out Ned Lamont for a duel. I think old Joe is going to start sounding more/more neo-con crazy as time goes on…what else does he have to run with? I also expect he is going to be showing up more/more on Faux News as their new darling.
I think old Joe is going to start sounding more/more neo-con crazy as time goes on…what else does he have to run with?
I’ve been absolutely convinced that old Joe has been a neocon at least since the Abu Grahib torture hearings where he was so racist, disgusting, bigoted and shallow that Lyndsey Graham put his sanctimonious ass to shame (and convinced that he unrepentantly wishes to aid and abet the religious right since he started sponsoring ‘charitable choice’ legislation with Rick Santorum). I guess my point is that he’s been sounding crazy for a long time now. It’s genuinely alarming that this guy was the 2k vice presidential nominee.
As for what else he has to run with, he’s been receiving endorsements (and money) from republicans so I have been assuming that he would be running as a DLC republican lite candidate and against the progressives (base voters) in his former party. (although there’s a FP article on DK exposing some indication that the CT GOP is considering running a serious candidate which would complicate things even further.)
What gets me is the Carper, Inoue, Salazar, Nelson branch of the senate Dems who seem ideological and distraught enough at the loss of their leader that they’re willing to join Lieb in his unusual display of biting the hand which has fed them and openly display their contempt for democratic processes and the voters in their own party. What a train wreck this is to watch. And how interesting…
available in blue.
in orange.