It is starting to look like will have a 50-50 Senate. While the races are starting to solidify in the blue column in Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Ohio, Montana, and Missouri, we are not getting over the hump in Virginia and Tennessee. I am not thrilled with either Harold Ford, Jr. or Jim Webb. I haven’t advocated for their election or made any efforts for them. But we desperately need one of them to win.
Looking at the internals of the polling in Tennessee, I can see why Harold Ford is running such a belligerent campaign.
Tennessee remains relatively hospitable turf for Republicans. The state gives Bush a 46 percent approval rating, among his highest. Just 34 percent think that House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., should resign because of the House page sex scandal, the lowest among battleground states.
Iraq is the top issue, and Iraq voters support Ford by a ratio of better than 3-1. Yet 44 percent approve of Bush’s handling of Iraq. And those who support the president’s policy on Iraq prefer Corker by 84-7 percent.
Race is an undercurrent in Tennessee. Ford would be the first African-American ever elected to the Senate from the South. He leads among African-Americans by 86-4 percent; Corker leads among whites by 53-36 percent.
Campare these numbers with Rhode Island.
Rhode Island is poison to Republicans this year, with the lowest approval rating for President Bush (22 percent) and Congress (15 percent) of any battleground state. It also is the most tuned in to the Iraq war, with 36 percent calling it their top issue.
A whopping 74 percent of Rhode Island voters want to get troops out of Iraq, and they support Whitehouse.
Even Chafee’s much-publicized distance from Bush and the war aren’t enough to survive in that environment. He trails among Iraq voters, health-care voters and those worried about a terrorist attack.
We really do live in two different countries.
If it is a 50-50 Senate, then that man from Connecticut may very well have the last word on a whole range of issues. Just think, he was the VP candidate in 2000, thrown out of the party in 2006, and could be the deciding factor in the Senate if he wins. Talking about coming full circle.
I was castigated for simply metioning this a while back, and now if everything holds on like it might, Joe the kingmaker will leave his mark.
True.
However, if I were a Lieberman supporter I would be extremely concerned about his ballot position.
Schlesinger is going to be on the top next to Rell.
That is going to cost Joe several percentage points. He needs to maintain a double digit lead to be safe.
If people can’t look down to find Lieberman’s name on the ballot, then they don’t deserve to vote. It might cost him 1-2%, but I don’t think it’ll be a big deal.
Think about it for a moment.
Governor Rell is popular. Most Republicans are going to be going to the polls, not to vote for Lieberman or Schlesinger, but to vote for her.
In contrast, most Democrats will be going to the polls to vote for Ned Lamont.
All the Republicans that are lazy and just cast the ticket will be voting for Schlesinger. Many of the voters that are there for Rell will not be interested in voting for the sixth guy on the ballot from some non-existent party.
I think the damage to Lieberman could be 3% or more.
Only one party is screaming. Keep up that complaint and you’ll be in good company with the old Italian, Spanish and Portuguese regimes, all of whom were strongly supported by people who believed that ‘party politics’ is destructive to national integrity. This is a very slippery slope. Think about it before you start walking there.
Too late, we already voted him off the island. (Link below.)
You have been castigated repeatedly because you seem to exist on this blog solely to fluff Lieberman, and it isn’t a popular position. Your nickname should be “Pettycash”, you spend so much time at it.
I agree with Bowers, Lieberman is a sociopath. He isn’t a kingmaker because he already owes his alegiance to corporations which back Republicans. There is no chance he is voting with the Dems if the Senate is 50-50.
I disagree. He will be offered the Pentagon and he will likely take it. Rell will appoint a GOP’er to fill his seat and throw control to the Republicans.
Joe Lieberman is not going to take the Pentagon job. Why in the hell would he lose the primary, run as an Independent, only to throw all that away and take the Pentagon job?? Doesn’t make sense.
because he has ego the size of the goodyear blimp, that’s why. Why do you think the GOP is pumping all these millions of cash into Lieberman’s campaign? So he can be the Democratic senator from Connecticut? Remember, they started helping him in the primary.
No, he will never serve out his term.
…and this: For the same reason a dog licks his balls–because he can.
Of course, canines are cute and Lieberman is a narcissist, but all good hounds are loyal to their masters.
That would be one final slap in the face to the voters of Connecticut. Yeah, I could see it happening your way too. Rumsfeld is gone by mid-January, someone has to replace him.
It won’t be Lieberman.
If Lieberman gets re-elected, the Repubs will want to replace him with someone that has a better chance to hold the seat six years down the line. They would also remove the “Independent” seat and have another official “GOP” seat. Two birds with one stone.
The Senate hearings involving Sec. of Defense Lieberman would be interesting, wouldn’t they.
I “fluff” Lieberman, and because you hate that, you’ve castiagted me for it. Chris Bowers hates Lieberman, you hate Lieberman. Sounds to me like you two are the ones who need professional help.
I’ll say one thing, you have passion. Which is why you have to be getting paid for this. I have never heard of anyone being passionate for Joe before.
The only real question concerning eastboastrepublican now is, “How much is Booman getting paid to allow this troll to continue to profane BT?”
The troll now proposes psychiatric treatment for anyone who disagrees with him. How long must we wait?
is the rating system broken?
Blueneck has been trying, the problem is finding another person to give zeros too. Not that I’m volunteering (though I did provide the second zero once a few months ago), eastcoastmoderate is more annoying than anything else, but how many deleted comments would it take to get banned?
Allowing freedom of speech for people like eastcoastmoderate is very reflective of Booman’s personality and history with this site, I would be shocked if he was getting anything in return. I understand your frustration, but suggesting some kind of bribe is way over the line. Follow your own conscience, but if I had said something that inflammatory about someone in their own virtual “home”, I would apologize. If you think so poorly of the host, why are you here?
I don’t know how carefully you have been following this entire sorry episode, but many TUs on the site have repeatedly mega-trolled ecm, have repeatedly asked him to engage in constructive discussion, and have been very very convinced that ecm has no intention of providing any reasonable discourse.
The last time I commented on ecm, I left a plea to ban him, and I have no idea how many people saw it, but several rated the call for banning a four. Others also have left comments supporting the conclusion that ecm is nothing but a troll, repeatedly. The community is united. I have ZERO comments from anyone supporting what ecm does. I have seen one, maybe two, infrequent users who have proposed ignoring ecm or tolerating him.
Booman has posted a picture of a troll doll in reference to ecm and he has said that if ecm continues to be trollish he will be banned. If recommending psychiatric treatment for those who disagree with you isn’t over the line, I don’t know what is. That is what happened after Booman said that ecm would be banned for continuing trollish behavior.
AND? No banning. What am I left to assume?
Booman can certainly allow anything and anyone he chooses on this site. He can ignore the community of TUs if he likes, or he can hide behind us if he likes and claim that it is our responsibility to mega troll ecm’s every bad move. That is his prerogative, for sure. And there is nothing I can do about that.
I stepped up as an active TU for one reason and one reason only – because I wanted to try to prevent the situations in the recent past that caused mass exoduses of good people. I thought I was doing a service to Booman himself and to the community by trying to be more active in identifying actual problems, which I firmly believe ecm is. I have tried to be helpful, but it doesn’t seem that that is how my efforts have been perceived.
Well, if nobody cares enough to support mega-trolling prickish comments, and Booman himself doesn’t care if users repeatedly and regularly leave highly prickish and insulting remarks, then why should I care? And why can’t I be just as prickish to Booman as he allows other users to be one another? I guess you’re right, I should just shut my fucking piehole and leave. Perhaps I will. Thanks for the good advice.
We have several members here that came here with a certain attitude or a certain way of interacting that wasn’t appropriate to the culture. And they changed, sometimes slowly, until they no longer cause problems and are very valued. I don’t hold out much hope for ECM. He’ll probably get banned shortly, or simply disappear after the election. But if he cares at all, he will not want to see all his comments disappear.
ECM actually has done one courteous thing. Before he even created an account he wrote me a personal email asking me if he would be banned for supporting Lieberman. I assured him that we not be banned for supporting Lieberman and sent him the rules.
If I have been lenient, that is why. It’s also true that people have responded to his rudeness with rudeness, which perpetuates itself.
I appreciate your efforts and I agree with most of what you are saying. I know you are aware that the site is hurt everytime I ban someone as well as everytime I am too slow to ban someone. As I said before, trusted users should punish trollish comments, and if he doesn’t respond positively to that then he will be banned.
OK. Thanks for your reply. I do apologize now for the comment I made about you above. I didn’t believe it when I said it, and I don’t believe it now.
As I said in an earlier comment somewhere, I do appreciate you being slow to ban. I agree with everything you have done with regard to administering this site in the year+ that I have been around. I understand that it is not easy to decide to ban someone, and that the resultant fallout can be difficult in many cases.
I’ve already stated elsewhere my reasons for believing that this case is entirely different from any prior cases that I am aware of.
I think ecm actually loves to have his comments troll-rated. His behavior suggests that this is true, and if so, this alone makes him a definite and unredeemable troll. Personally, I think the email he sent you ahead of registering was just a setup, but I didn’t receive it, haven’t read it, so I am merely surmising from the overall pattern that this was the case. The desire to have ecm banned has absolutely nothing to do with his position on Lieberman. I stand ready to debate him substantively if he cares to do so, as do many others here. I am open-minded enough, and I believe that others here are too, to be convinced by a good argument. But when we try, he responds with ugly and demeaning remarks, more worthy of an eight year old than the 44 years he advertises in his info. Even if he can’t convince me, I would gladly treat him with respect if he would treat me and others with the same. I respect no opinion or argument, but I try hard to respect people that have different opinions than I do.
It is true that some have responded rudely. I tried really hard not to for quite a long time, but I think I finally called him an asshole in one of my latest comments, which I’m not sure I want to retract. This is why I think ecm is a problem that will only get worse. Even those who usually do not reply with rudeness have become rude. Rudeness will continue to escalate.
I will continue to mega-troll him when his comments warrant it. I have now escalated to to giving him two to three megatrolls for every trollish remark when it is possible to find enough borderline or non trollish remarks, which are relatively rare. The effect is that I have probably megatrolled every single comment by ecm. There is nothing left for me to do and no other way to escalate my displeasure with ecm’s continuing trolling. I do have better things to do with my time than that, like maybe write a diary or something, but I’m not going to let up until the trollish behavior stops or he does get banned.
I’m not going to leave, and I wish I hadn’t said that either.
Onward and upward…
I pointed out one specific instance which I felt crossed the line. You feel like you were justified and Booman doesn’t seem to mind, so what do I know. As for the rest, my question was “IF you think so poorly of the host”, blah blah blah. I just assumed you really don’t think that poorly of the host. I actually agree with your response to eastcoastmoderate, though I also agree with Booman that the rudeness has been both ways (including me) and I’m very reluctant to troll-rate anyone (I mostly ignore it, this thread being an exception).
Regarding the rest of your post, I am an absolute nobody around here, I barely post at all, if you want to get a persecution complex and drive yourself off of Booman Tribune, do it in response to someone else.
Shalimar, please see my reply to Booman’s comment.
As for a persecution complex, I plead guilty to temporary insanity, born of frustration. However, you are the one who invited me to leave, regardless of your backpedaling now. There was no other possible way to interpret those words you typed in. IF you meant to say IF then you should have emphasized it in the comment you left.
Now it seems to me that you are the one badmouthing yourself with the “I am nobody” stuff. To the contrary, I believe that you are somebody important. And if you believe I overvalued your comment, that is your opinion of yourself, not my opinion of you.
Onward and upward…
There was no other possible way to interpret those words you typed in.
I wrote “If you think so poorly of the host, why are you here?” It seems like a pretty clear question to me, however you chose to interpret it. There was no invitation in that sentence for you to leave, and there is no backpedaling on my part from my original intention. I asked you why you would want to be here if you think so poorly of Booman, in your apology to him you made it clear you don’t think so poorly of him. I have no idea why you couldn’t answer that way in the first place. As for other possible ways to interpret, I told you what my intention was and you basically called me a liar. There really isn’t anything worth saying after that.
I’m sorry for this whole misunderstanding between us. I apologize.
Thank you. I’m sorry I got involved in the first place and apologize for that, it really wasn’t my dispute and my mediation training is very rusty.
I said an outrageous thing that deserved to be confronted. Thanks for your frogiveness.
You are an asshole par excellence. It is no wonder you are in love with Joe. Birds of a feather flock together.
Another reason you’re castigated around here, looking back for your previous mentions of Lieberman-as-kingmaker, you said this a few weeks back:
If Lieberman wins, the Senate, it might give us a 49-49-2 Senate, with Lieberman controlling the shots. You said it yourself Boo-Man in black and white. Lieberman will be the man people go to. That’s the kingmaker in my book.
This is not an “us” situation, and you damn well know it. You have made clear repeatedly that you are not a Democrat, unlike every other member here who either is a Democrat or thinks Democrats are too far to the right. You are not a Democrat, Lieberman is not a Democrat, almost all of your posts do nothing but smear the actual Democrat in the only race you seem to care much about. What is your point in posting here instead of somewhere that you might actually find another Lieberman supporter? Assuming there are such places online, which I guess may be the problem.
You were never castigated for ‘mentioning’ anything. You were rightfully and roundly criticized for taunting, rude, ugly comments and for showing no respect whatsoever for anyone else’s considered opinions.
The fact that you can’t scknowledge that shows that you are still a prick and still a troll.
Blueneck, if I had your email I’d say this to you privately. I don’t, so please accept my apology in advance for saying this in the thread. Relax about eastcoastmoderate. Use the ratings. Don’t bite when he does his thing. Others are also troll-rating him. Your writings about what you find important are interesting and I always look for them. Put you energy there. Think about what I’ve said. I mean it with respect and affection.
Given recent events, one can only wonder how far Allen would have to go to aactually take himself out of the running in Virgina.
I don’t know, was it Thurmond who had a child with the family’s black maid? Considering the trouble Allen is already in, that might do it.
That wouldn’t cut it, either, if for no other reason than untrammeled sexual access to the black “help” was not an uncommon occurrence.
Given some folks in Va, the only reason to be mad at the California confederate is for him to fess up tearfully as to how wrong he was to be a sorry, pandering liar. And I say that as a born Virginian. How obvious is it that Allen’s fool ass doesn’t even want to be in the Senate? And yet.
Anyway, I’m greeted with southern swastiska sightings every time I go home, so I’m not surprised by these numbers. Allen will pull it out, I believe, but it doesn’t stop me from hoping that I am wrong.
Allen can swear up a storm, and use all the racist words in his vocabulary, and I’d think he’d still win Virginia.
We might be able to pull it out on the state-wide races but the tight congressional races will lean towards the republicans. I will write a diary on this shortly regarding voting suppression.
you’re so down on Harold Ford. I think he’s running the best campaign of any of our Senate challengers, with the possible exception of Jon Tester. I know he is a centrist, but has to be to have any chance at all in TN. How amazing is it that an African American Democrat is even remotely a possibility to take Bill Frist’s seat! He is a very charismatic candidate and I think you are seriously underestimating his chances– every poll I’ve seen has it a statistical dead heat.
He’s not running as a centrist, he’s running as Erwin Rommel crossed-with James Dobsen. What’s to like?
Personally, his whole effort to out Christian and out war-hawk his opponent is leaving me with a bad taste in my mouth.
The only thing I like about him is that he isn’t Bill Frist and he won’t vote for a GOP majority leader.
And, no, I don’t think this is all necessary to win the seat. He can’t run a standard liberal campaign, but he doesn’t have to do this crap.
Anyway, I hope he wins but he needs to be ahead in the polls to have any hope. Right now he is slightly down within the margin of error.
So this projection assumes we need six turnovers to have a majority including Joe, right?
What would a 50-50 Senate mean for committees and such? I know we had that situation but can’t remember how it worked. Does the VP have a vote on committee chairs? I think the last time the parties negotiated a co-chair arrangement.
The other crucial aspect of the Senate election would be filibusters. Theoretically Dems should be able to sustain one on most issues. Has anyone analyzed the likely individual senators with an eye to how reliable they would be in upholding filibusters?
Boo sez: “We really do live in two different countries.” Welcome to the final reality level. It will be the most painful one yet.
I’m concerned about Casey — how often will he cross the aisle to vote with the Republicans, especially when it comes time to rubberstamp more of Bush’s judicial choices?
Wish there was a way we could get a larger cushion, just to make these questions academic, but maybe a 50-50 Senate will show the American people who really is against progress in America…
That’s a good question.
If I lived in PA, I’d go to the voting booth literally holding my nose. If I still lived in VA, I’d do the same.
I just wish I could talk my family out of voting against marriage freedom with that ballot question. I think that will be the maneuver to ensure Allen’s victory, but I pray that I am wrong.
Even if, by some miracle, the Senate votes on a straight party line, Cheney casts the deciding vote.
Said it before and I’ll say it again, the Dems don’t take both the House and the Senate, they don’t deserve to!