October 9th of this year, my brother LCpl Jon E Bowman died. He was a marine and died in combat. As I was reading this website, I became a little uneasy. How can so many people get on here and post the things that you have.
My brother died for his country and the freedom for all of us. He died so that you can sit here and have freedom of speech, the only thing is you don’t really appreciate it. You all say that this war is full of lies and so on. I’m thinking that maybe it’s going to take another 9/11 for any of you people to realize that you don’t just let a terrorist attack take place and move on with your lives.
I’d like to see you have your house beat down into nothing, or your car set on fire and you just move on with your life as though it’s no big deal. The fact is our whole country was in danger and these men are out there to protect all of us, so that our houses aren’t getting bombed.
It just makes me so angry to see you people sit there and listen to the media and the lies and somehow the media has that much power of your mind. You don’t make up your mind, the media does. I have to admit, I am angry with some of the things with this war. I have no doubt in my mind that it should exist, simply because we were attacked and that’s what you do when you’re attacked you’re supposed to do all you can to protect whoever or whatever is in danger.
I feel as though we are a little too humane. Our men are over there to fight and trust me some of you think that they are too harsh, they aren’t. The United States is trying to do the right thing regardless, but we cannot let our men continue to die because we are too humane and we do not want to take the chance to kill an innocent Iraqi. I get that, I do but then there comes the frustration of the fact that it’s so easy for the Al Qeada to kill one of us.
So the next time any of you get ready to protest against this war maybe, just maybe you should do some research.
We should do research?! The “fact” is that we are currently at war in a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 and posed no threat to this country.
I am sorry for your loss. I know I’m fortunate. My husband returned from Iraq alive. But the simple truth is that he, like so many others, went into combat knowing that if he had died it would have been for lies and oil. There is actually a letter in his personal papers that I would have found in the event of his death, insisting that I would make clear to all, including our daughter, that he died “for nothing.” I know it’s a kick in the head, but so did your brother. Lies and oil. Get used to it. Perhaps it’s soothing to tell yourself fairytales about how he died for our freedoms, but Iraq posed no threat to our free speech or anything else, except reduced profits for those oil whores in the White House.
Also, out respect for your fallen brother, I’d like to point out that he was a Marine, not a marine.
You say I’m not honoring my brother because of simple typo, Marine, but in fact the whole entry was honoring my brother.
Maybe if your husband were not to make it back alive, you would realize that having hatred for this war that he died for, is not in any way, shape or form glorifying his name.
I’m sorry there is ignornat people like you.
Many others have lost their loved ones in this illegal occupation and yet have found a way to work for Peace and to find out that this was all a sham and a shame.
Sheehan’s family
Pat Tillman’s family
and many many more.
How would failing to honor his wishes “glorify his name?” He hates this war and takes every death posted to icasualties like a sock in the gut.
Sorry, but I’m a bit of stickler for proper protocol and missing the cap on Marine looked really dodgy. As does troll rating someone for disagreeing you. That’s just bad manners, really.
I wonder what the freedoms were your poor brother died for.
Did he die so Bush could wiretap American citizens? Did he die so Bush could from “Free Speech Zones”?
Did your brother die so that more veterans would lose health care and benefits and be jailed if they wore a Veterans for Peace t-shirt at a VA?
Did he die so that 600,000 Iraqis could be killed instead of LIBERATED.
I’m sure it makes your grief easier to focus on your anger and hate at Liberals and Democrats who want an end to the illegal occupation of Iraq which had NOTHING to do with 9/11 but in the end it will cause you more pain.
Would you like to read the RESEARCH that another military man found about the war? Read up on Ehren Watada. Research.
I’m sorry for your loss and that is why I protest this regime and this illegal occupation that has caused nothing but death for many and profits for a few.
Research.. .indeed.
Dada, this is uncalled for. I don’t think this is a troll diary. It sounds too sincere. It is not over the top provocative. I like reading your work, and know that you’re better than this.
I agree with you. This business of calling anyone a troll because they state an opposing view is unproductive. Conflict is part of life.
I think it is trolling. Of all the sites to post her “sincere” diary…. why this one?
I’d be a troll if I put up a CodePink Action Alert on Free Republic would I not?
Hell, I’ve been called a lot worse than that here for posting a diary about Lt. Ehren Watada and War Resistors.
Just because someone is grieving doesn’t mean they should hijack everyone by calling them ignorant or less American.
Pretty soon they’ll be BLAMING all war protestors for the fact their beloved was killed. Remember, the GOP considers Democrats and protestors to be united with “terra-ists”
her brother died a month ago, Janet.
Booman,
Respectfully… her brother died along with so many others. Coming up close on 3,000 soldiers and Marines. Over 20,OOO soldiers and Marines with “visible” disabilities. Over 500,000 dead Iraqis.
All of the above are dead and disabled because of IGNORANCE and APATHY.
A troll is not simply someone who states an opposing view – on this we agree. However, when a person states ANY opinion, opposing or similar, and in doing so says hateful things and fails to give the least little smidgin of human-to-human respect, then that person IS a troll or is at least acting in a trollish manner, imo.
I have seen plenty of heated back and forth arguments on BT that focused on opinions and facts, where two or more people respect the other person(s), but not necessarily their opinions. Trolls lead with the taunting and hateful personal stuff and don’t engage in meaningful back and forth discussions. Conflict is part of life, but bullying and taunting deserve to be ridiculed.
However, in this instance, I believe that the circumstances are so overwhelming for this person that I have chosen to try to engage the individual in spite of the general tone and lack of respect in this diary. If my brother had been killed a month ago in this war, I don’t think I could be counted on to be civil in all respects. So I am cutting her some slack, so to speak, in hopes of doing something good for a person in such obvious and understandable pain.
Yup.
Do you recall that Iraq did not attack us? Well you can look far and wide and you will not find another group of people who have done so much research, on this war, 9/11, gitmo, downing street memos, you name it as members of this site and others like Daily Kos.
Sorry about your loss, truly.
My Iraq friend who has just come here this July has had many losses of her family and countrymen, what would you say to her. She tells me that Iraqi’s are fighting each other and killing anyone who has any connection to America, such as Iraqi policeman who have been trained by American’s, it’s like a death sentence to them. So if they are standing in the middle of a market, too bad, too bad about collateral damage. She herself had to give up her job with Reuters, as she was threatened with death should she attempt to go there one more day. By the way she loves America and Americans.
She tells me that staying or going by the US will most likely not stop their infighting. I am a little bit afraid that you need to do some research yourself so please check out the numerous media links provided in many diaries. We are centainly not a one source informed group here and we have members from all over the world to lend their perspective.
I am hoping you will avail yourself of the information and perspective we provide and not chastise us for not holding the view you perceive to be the truth.
Megan-
I absolutely agree that it is the responsibility of our military to protect us against attack. There’s no question that they needed to identify the people affiliated with the group that attacked us on 9/11 and bring them to justice or neutralize them. As far as we can tell, those people were located in Afghanistan and had important assistance from people in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. They also had some assistance from recruiters in a mosque in Hamburg, Germany, London, and possibly Virginia, San Diego, and elsewhere.
Finding these recruiters and their cells is a job for our intelligence agencies.
Another factor in the threat from Islamic radicals is in figuring out what issues and policies of ours motivate them, and then seeing if we need to continue those policies, or if we can do a better job of selling the policies we don’t feel we can change. Or maybe we can resolve or arbitrate some of the issues that motivate them.
The war in Iraq is a problem because it cuts against every aspect of the threat and makes it worse. The people that attacked us did not come from Iraq, they did not have support from Iraq. But we have created a propaganda bonanza for the jihadists around the world by invading a country and killing hundreds of thousands of people based on their leaders refusal to give up weapons that he did not have.
Now there are many more people that want to harm us and now they have a valid reason for wanting to do so. Moreover, we took our eyes off the real battle by diverting our resources to Iraq.
I am deeply sorry about the loss of your brother. I can’t imagine how you feel. I am sure he did his best to do his duty and protect his nation. You can be proud of him.
We are fighting to give all our soldiers better civilian leadership. Your brother deserved that.
Megan –
I am sorry for your loss. Truly, I am. Many of us on this site do indeed know what it is like to have your life turned upside down by the sudden loss of a loved one.
If you read more of what is written here, you will find the driving interest of most, if not all of us is to prevent more families from going through that tragedy and sorrow.
To accept that our current path is the only path to security is to believe in the empty words and dubious motives of power brokers who deal in both money and blood.
There is a better way.
Peace be with you.
Megan,
I am sorry for your loss. I may have known some of your family once, as I used to have family in the Dubach and Ruston area, and I have met Bro. Anderson who spoke at your brother’s funeral. It is clear that you are hurting and angry.
I do not know how you came to post your diary here at this place. What I do know is that you do not know me, nor the other people here, and we do not know you. But whatever you think of us, it is not good to be so angry at people who did not wish your brother to die. Indeed, every day, many of us shed tears that more young men and women have died, as well as old men, women, and children.
I can also assure you that very few of the people who write here form their beliefs based on what they see on television or read in most newspapers. You are right that much of what appears in the media is not accurate. We are concerned about terrorism and terrorist attacks. However, Iraqis are not the people who attacked us.
Now, your view of the war in Iraq is very different from mine, and very different from that of most of the people here. We don’t all see the soldiers and the war alike here, whatever you think. But one thing I do know: you are too upset to understand what our feelings are, or how we came to them. And we don’t know you, so discussing this painful topic with you isn’t going to change our view or yours, most likely.
Nonetheless, I am sorry that your brother died. That is a loss, for you, for your family. And for the community and friends who knew him, and would have loved to know him and be with him for many years. We DO understand the pain of those kinds of losses.
Perhaps when you are calmer, you should read Ephesians 4: 26 – 32. I hope in time, you will find rest from your grief, Megan.
the more this post just makes me sad. This and the now disappeared response Megan made to my earlier comment. She said something about the proper way to “glorify” my husband’s name. What is he? Jesus Christ?You know, he’s just a guy. Everyone over there fighting in this god awful war is quite human and quite mortal. I am always disturbed when I encounter this mentality that puts our troops on pedestals. These aren’t symbols. They’re people. People who need proper body armor, supplies, armaments, and MEDICAL CARE. But when we make them symbols, they don’t need anything, except our undying support (read worship) for protecting that intangible we call “freedom.” And they’re not allowed to come back with PTSD and need help and genuine support. They’re not allowed to be human anymore.
Megan, I welcome you to Booman Tribune, in honor of your fallen soldier. I know that I speak for many of us when I quote our own RubDMC from his regular series of posts on the Iraq War that goes by the name “Iraq War Grief Daily”:
we love and support our troops, just as we love and support the Iraqi people – without exception, or precondition, or judgment
I can’t put myself in your shoes, so I’m going to be as gentle as I possibly can. You are obviously VERY angry, and rightfully so, over the death of your brother. However, I truly believe that your anger is misdirected. Saying to us that you’d “…like to see you have your house beat down into nothing, or your car set on fire…” is beyond the pale. It is just this kind of thinking that gets us into wars in the first place, and you will not resolve your grief by hating us.
However, I forgive you. Speaking for myself, I will not hold this against you in the future, but please please do not hate me because I hate this war. In my very carefully studied opinion, I believe that this war was started for no good reason. I’ll not lay out my argument for you here, because I do not believe that in your current state you will be open to hearing it. However, you may rest assured that I do not trust the mass media one bit, and I do not rely exclusively on network and cable TV for my news about the war or about anything else.
I spend a considerable amount of time consulting a wide variety of news sources from various organizations, some considered “liberal” and some considered “conservative” and some considered “moderate”. I check news sources from foreign countries as well as news from sources here in America. I am NOT ignorant. And I do NOT support this war.
What I DO support is every single person serving in our armed forces on land, on the sea, and in the air, anywhere and everywhere that their civilian leaders have put them. My beef is with the civilian leaders that the truly ignorant have elected and put in charge of our armed forces. These evil civilian leaders have put our armed forces in harm’s way and botched the war up in every conceivable way, from the start up until this very moment as I write. The one thing that they have proven to be competent at is to put massive amounts of taxpayer money into the hands of their war-profiteering cronies who in many cases haven’t provided the bare necessities of life to our soldiers in the field. These civilian ‘leaders’ have also managed to do a pretty good job of institutionalizing torture, which is totally reprehensible from any conceivable moral position. They have also done a pretty good job of under-funding services to our wounded and sick veterans.
I do not believe that there is such a thing as being “too humane” by a little or by a lot. The problem is that our soldiers should not be in Iraq, period, so that no one should have to decide whether to take the chance that they might accidentally kill an innocent Iraqi man, woman, or child.
And, finally, I applaud you for doing some research of your own by coming here to read the reasoned, caring, thoughful viewpoints available on Booman Tribune. We are not perfect, as individuals or as an on-line community, but I believe that we have a very special core group of thoughtful people here who will forgive your anger and who will discuss anything with you if you will only treat us with some basic human-to-human respect.
May your brother rest in peace and may you begin to find some peace for yourself, as well. I believe strongly that your anger is misdirected, but I still care about you, and I still mourn the loss of your brother, as best I can.
Your preaching got me to thinking of something I’d read recently:
Nerdified link. Long story short: I refuse to buy the myth. Your screeching at those of us who would prefer not to have had your loved one or anyone else’s killed in the latest war of imperialism merely strengthens my resolve to continue speaking out against it, rather than to be silenced.
MeganBrooke,
I wish I could agree with you. I wish I could tell you that I thought us safer now for the sacrifices of Marines and Soldiers like your brother. I wish Oct. 9th would’ve been any ordinary day for him, for you, and your family. I wish none of his comrades had met their own Oct. 9th’s. Or that hundreds of thousands of Iraqis had not been taken from this world. I would never tell you that he died for nothing. He may have believed in what he was doing. You do, by your words here. I however, do not believe in what our country and our military are doing. I’ve been forced to confront some very complicated and touchy opinions I held about the military and it’s role in propping up an illegal war. They’re not easy opinions to articulate. Certainly not with out making a lot of military members and their familes angry. Although I come from a very anti-war backround, I’ve always had a deep and abiding respect for the courage and sacrifices made by ordinary people pressed into extraordinarily horrific situations of life and death survival. But mainly because of this war, it’s conduct and the conduct of too many in the military, my opinions are evolving away from blind support and respect.
I’m glad you posted this diary here. I think that our country and those of us who are at opposing sides of these issues are going to find ourselves confronting the war and each other more and more as it plays out and as our country finds it’s feet again after it ends. We’ll need to find ways to reunite. Making the effort to listen and understand one another is the start of that.
Be well
that you have lost a loved one to this illegal occupation of Iraq. May I ask, what were the circumstances of his death? Friendly fire like Pat Tillman? Lack of body armour?
I understand how angry you must feel Megan but your anger is totally misdirected. Please, the next time you get the urge to vent this anger might I suggest that you address it to the real culprits? George W. Bush and his administration.
If you want to do some research you may try googling Downing Street Memos or Joe and Valerie Wilson. How about No Quarter written by a Republican former CIA intelligence offer and terrorist specialist. I highly encourage you to turn off Fox News and Rush. That is where the real propaganda is written. That is where the true ignorance lies.
I’d like to see you have your house beat down into nothing, or your car set on fire and you just move on with your life as though it’s no big deal.
Interesting thought here Megan. Just imagine the Iraqi people experiencing this every day – and worse. I wonder if you can imagine how THEY feel to have this happening to their families every day. Those fighting our soldiers over there are not the ones who are responsible for 9/11. But we are doing this to them anyway. The people of Iraq have experienced their own 9/11 every day many times over. How do you expect them to respond? This is madness!!
What to say?
I’m not going to type the empty platitudes, “sorry for your loss” and all the rest. They won’t comfort you, they only serve to make ME feel better, and as I remember from when my father died of that final heart attack, part of you will never feel better. There will be a raw bleeding hole in your life, forever. That is part of living, after all, the memories of loved ones and the ache of having it rush back in on you that they aren’t going to make any more memories with you, because they can’t, because they’re dust.
It’s easy from my point-of-view to be as angry at you as you are with us. The necrophilia of those who demand piety toward the dead, and mindless submission to demands for silence about their dying has always disturbed me. To submit to demands such as yours serves only to allow for more needless dying, to add error upon criminal error, so I don’t, and you can hate me for not falling to my knees in silence so another sister can mourn another brother and on and on, again and again as it has ever been.
I find interesting insights from literature and movies done by the japanese, their stories about samurai and corrupt daimyo and honor offered and honor betrayed. A warrior, committed to his brother warriors and his code, can die horribly for no good reason when ill-used by his lord. He can die with his honor intact while shadowed by the perfidy and dishonor of the lord to whom he swore fealty. It is a story and a crime as old as the flickering shadows on a rough-hewn castle wall. This is the fate suffered by your brother and other soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines in this criminal war.
When one chooses to pick up the sword, or has it thrust upon him, he can only try to be true to his oaths, be true to those who fight beside him. Questions above that, of country and necessity, fade away, to be answered (or not) by the lords and officers who hold that honor in trust and tell him what to do, where to go, who to kill. At the moment fist closes upon the grip he’s chosen to put the worth of his life, the worth of his dying, into the hands of others. If the lord who receives that honor misuses it, then he deserves to be condemned. The men who misused your brother’s sacrifice deserve condemnation. The true crime is that they will dance with their fancy words and wreaths upon the graves of men like your brother, and they will fill more of those graves, and they will demand our silence as they do it. No, they will demand, as you have demanded, that we “celebrate” the waste along with them.
Sorry, I can’t do that and have MY honor remain intact, shabby as it may be. Hate me, hate us, if it salves your wound, but know that we oppose this criminal war so that tomorrow’s sister doesn’t have to mourn tomorrow’s fallen brother.
Find what peace you can.
Megan,
Your brother sounds like he was a fine young man. What a terrible loss for you and your family. Having lost my own brother years ago (he was murdered), I have some idea of what you are going through, with only a few weeks having passed since his death. I’m truly sorry you have to go through that, with the added pain of it being in a war that many view as unnecessary and illegal. It must make it doubly difficult.
Can I ask you what things you ARE angry about with this war? I’m angry that a small group of men who would profit from a war in Iraq were able to twist an event like 9/11 into something to suit their own purposes, and that they put young men like your brother, my friend’s husband, and another friend’s 20-year-old son into harm’s way for those lies. The people who perpetrated 9/11 were in Afghanistan, not in Iraq. And they were allowed to escape! (Google Tora Bora for more info.)
I’m angry that after the US went into Iraq, the Bush administration didn’t care enough about what they were doing to have a plan, or even the proper equipment to protect men like your brother from IEDs. I’m angry that 3 years later, they still don’t have a plan or adequate equipment.
And I don’t think the civilians in Iraq did anything to deserve what has happened there.
The bottom line is, it’s time for the US to get out of Iraq, so that people like your brother don’t have to die there, and so the people of Iraq can go about trying to rebuild their country without US interference. We’ve done too much already.