You know, the main reason I read blogs is to be better informed about what’s going on in my country and around the world. Most of the time, that’s exactly what blogs deliver, especially ones as wonderful as this one.
But this past week I’ve seen all of my favorite blogs (Americablog and Boo) among others tote the “MSM” line, and it is time to debunk it.
I’m speaking about Aleksandr Litvinenko.
I too am sorry that he died in such excruciating agony and this diary is not meant to spit on his grave. But the MSM meme that he was poisoned by unnamed Russian agents acting on President Putin’s direct orders to shut him up is categorically ridiculous.
Yes, Mr. Litvinenko was once upon a time a KGB spy. And Ollie North was at one time a U.S. Marine. And Pappa George H.W. Bush was the head of the CIA. And so on and so forth. Mr. Litvinenko might’ve been a super spy or a mediocre one, but he hadn’t worked for Russian intelligence for over a decade so his previous employment is largely irrelevant.
Mr. Litvinenko has been living in Britain for the last six years and has been the same vocal critic of the Putin administration for all six years, which he survived in extreme comfort and poison-free. Litvinenko was not a citizen of Britain however – his legal residence was predicated upon his claim of needing asylum from Russia. According to Mr. Litvinenko, he needed asylum because he is “wrongly” accused of being a “traitor” in Russia, particularly by the FSB.
It was only a couple of weeks before he was “poisoned” that he finally became a British citizen. Another British citizen is Litvinenko’s close friend, Boris Berezovsky, who is also an outspoken critic of the Putin administration.
Mr. Litvinenko first gained attention in 1998 when he gave a press conference (in Moscow!) stating that the KGB (FSB) had been ordered to kill Berezovsky.
Let’s review so far:
- Litvinenko has been an outspoken critic of Putin for 13 years, 7 in Russia and 6 in Britain, all poison-free
- Litvinenko is a close friend of Berezovsky
- Litvinenko said the KGB had been ordered to kill Berezovsky yet he remains alive and unharmed to this day
Ok, so you might still be inclined to believe that somehow, Putin’s henchmen still had a reason to kill Litvinenko now, and do it on British soil.
Litvinenko also wrote a book criticizing the Putin administration called “Blowing Up Russia: Terror from Within”. In it, among other things, he accused the Russian government (Putin) of being the real mastermind behind the 1999 Moscow apartment bombings, and not the Chechens, in order to “divert Russia away from the path of democracy”.
This book came out in 2002, meaning Litvinenko had 4 years of living poison-free in Britain even after writing this extremely incendiary book.
Furthermore, Litvinenko was convicted in a Russian court (in absentia) of “abuse of office” and sentenced to 3.5 years of jailtime. That abuse was faking evidence in an investigation, by the way. Of course Britain did not extradite him.
But in case you’re inclined to dismiss Russian justice, Litvinenko was arrested in Russia in 1999 and he won his case. Actually he won 2 court cases before leaving Russia. Remember, this is a year after he gave the press conference accusing Putin of ordering the KGB (FSB) to murder Berezovsky.
After the book “Blowing Up Russia” was published, Litvinenko wrote another book called “Gang from Lubyanka” which stated that President Putin was “personally involved in organized crime”, i.e. the Russian mafia.
In 2005, Litvinenko said that Al-Qaeda leaders, including Ayman al-Zawahiri, were being trained by the FSB in Dagestan on Putin’s orders.
If that’s not enough nuttiness for you, just earlier this year Litvinenko stated that Italian Prime Minister Romani Prodi is a paid agent of Putin’s government. Litvinenko also said that Prodi has been instructed to “protect ex-KGB agents” who were “involved” in the assassination attempt of the Pope in 1981.
Ok, so maybe you want to believe that Putin finally ordered the execution of Litvinenko after 13 years of unhindered criticizing even despite the fact the KGB never killed a defector on foreign soil, not even in the days of the Soviet Union (with the possible exception of Georgi Markov).
Let’s look at the ridiculousness of this case on its own merits.
The official story is Litvinenko began to feel unwell on November 1 after two meetings. One meeting was at a sushi restaurant (i.e. raw fish) where he met with an Italian journalist named Mario Scaramella.
The official story is that Scaramella had some kind of secret information on the recent death of Anna Politkovskaya to give Litvinenko.
The other meeting during that day was with two former KGB agents, one named Andrei Lugovoi and the other identified only as “Vladimir”. Lugovoi is yet another Russian defector given asylum in Britain and was a former bodyguard and longtime friend of: you guessed it, Boris Berezovsky.
So either the journalist with incriminating evidence against Putin “poisoned” Litvinenko or Litvinenko was “poisoned” by a long-time associate and ally.
The official story continues that Litvinenko immediately determined he wasn’t feeling ill because of same bad sushi, but because he had been poisoned by thallium. Thallium is always described in the official stories as a component of rat poison, but not since the 1970’s. Since it is tasteless and odorless, it has been used to murder people in the past.
There is an extremely successful antidote to thallium poisoning called prussian blue and Mr. Litvinenko was given prussian blue at the hospital in the form of capsules which he swallowed.
The problem is that later tests determined Litvinenko had not been poisoned with thallium at all. As Litvinenko’s story became more widely published, the media (including the BBC) reported that 3 “unidentified objects” were found in his stomach and digestive tract. Those objects were the prussian blue capsules he had been given by his doctors.
And guess who one of the doctors was who “diagnosed” Litvinenko as being a victim of thallium poisoning? Why it’s John Henry, who “coincidentally” was also one of the doctors who treated Viktor Yushchenko for his “dioxin” poisoning in 2004.
Now the official story is that Litvinenko was poisoned with “precisely the right amount” of polonium 210, a radioactive substance. According to Wikipedia, polonium 210 is so rare that only 100 grams are produced (in nuclear reactors) worldwide every year.
Furthermore Po-210 has a half-life of just 138 days or 4 months, which means that it decays rather rapidly. So for someone to poison Litvinenko they would need access to a nuclear reactor and some relatively “fresh” polonium-210.
Polonium 210 is so toxic to human life that the maximum “allowable” dose is 0.03 microcurie, or 6.8 to 10 to the -12th power of a gram. In other words, an amount so tiny it would make a single crystal of salt look like the New Orleans Superdome. This is a tiny, tiny, tiny amount, and yet the official story says that Po-210 was found in 3 locations, including Litvinenko’s residence, a hotel and the sushi restaurant.
Therefore the “poisoners” either left micrograms of Polonium-210 in Litvinenko’s residence, a hotel and the sushi restaurant or else it was Litvinenko who was poisoned and himself left the trace amounts as he went to his various meetings.
Therefore, the official story is that a guy who has claimed Putin 1) killed hundreds of Russians in Moscow to provoke a second Chechen War and “divert Russia from democracy” 2) Putin personally ordered the KGB to kill Litvinenko’s close friend Berezovsky 3) Putin is in league with organized crime 4) Putin controls the Italian Prime Minister and 5) that Russia is paying and training top Al-Qaeda leaders got tired of Litvinenko’s criticism after 13 years, 2 books, 2 criminal trials and 6 years of freedom in Britain and decided to “silence” him using extremely small doses of one of the most toxic, radioactive substances on the planet.
Oh yeah, and this poisoning was done either 1) by an Italian journalist who had “dirt” on the Putin government’s “cover-up” of Politskaya’s murder or 2) some of his old ex-KGB buddies, nobody can say which.
As if all that wasn’t dramatic enough, after Litvinenko is dead in his bed, his buddies Goldfarb and Berezovsky produce a “signed statement” supposedly written 3 days earlier which points the finger square at Putin. Oh yeah, and the radioactivity is not what killed him, but instead he died of a heart attack.
So this whole cockamamie story is being blown up to gigantic proportions as some kind of de facto indictment at Putin’s administration when there is not one single, solitary shred of evidence linking Litvinenko’s poisoning or death to Putin. None. The facts simply are that Litvinenko got sick and his friends accuse Putin of being behind it. There are no other facts.
Putin’s statement on the matter, which you can find here in its original:
ВОПРОС: У меня вопрос к господину Путину и к господину Ванханену. Господин, Путин, после того, как вы прибыли в Хельсинки вчера, было объявлено о смерти Александра Литвиненко в Лондоне. Сегодня было сообщено, что прежде, чем, как он умер, он написал письмо, обвиняя Вас в своей смерти. Что Вы можете сказать по этому поводу? И господин Ванханен, Вы поднимали этот вопрос в разговоре с господином Путиным, и вызывает ли это Вашу обеспокоенност&#
1100;? И связано ли это как-то со смертью Анны Политковской? Спасибо.
В.ПУТИН: Смерть человека – это всегда трагедия. И я приношу свои соболезнования близким господина Литвиненко и его семье. Между тем, насколько мне известно, в медицинском заключении британских врачей нет указаний на то, что это насильственная смерть. Нет этого. Значит, нет и предмета для разговоров подобного рода.
В любом случае мы считаем, что наши британские коллеги, в том числе и из правоохранител&#
1100;ных органов, понимают уровень своей ответственност&#
1080; за обеспечение безопасности тех граждан, которые находятся на их территории. Это в полной мере относится и к гражданам Российской Федерации вне зависимости от их политических взглядов и убеждений, если они оказались на территории Британии. Надеюсь, что британские власти не будут способствовать и раздуванию каких бы то ни было политических скандалов, не имеющих под собой реальных оснований.
Если потребуется, российские власти, в том числе и следственные органы, прокуратура Российской Федерации окажут всю необходимую помощь в расследовании, если такое расследование будет иметь место.
Ну и, наконец, что касается записки, о которой Вы сказали. Если такая записка действительно появилась до кончины господина Литвиненко, то тогда возникает вопрос, почему она не была ранее обнародована при его жизни. А если она появилась после его кончины, после его смерти, то, естественно, какие здесь могут быть комментарии? Те люди, которые сделали это, не господь Бог, а господин Литвиненко, к сожалению, не Лазарь. И очень жаль, что даже такие трагические события, как смерть человека, используют для политических провокаций.
М.ВАНХАНЕН: Его гибель – это трагическое событие, но я не поднимал этот вопрос в обсуждениях сегодня, поскольку в настоящий момент у нас нет подробностей. В Великобритании власти расследуют этот вопрос и сначала они должны завершить свою работу.
I posted it here in Russian simply because I’m tired of the western media only selectively quoting what they want.
Roughly it says that Putin is sorry he’s dead, there’s absolutely no Russian government involvement, that the British authorities should fully investigate the case and that all the accusations are nothing more than political provocation. And he is exactly right.
You know what? I said it before and I’ll say it again: I’m sorry Mr. Litvinenko died such an excruciating death. But in life he was a kook and his best friend are thugs and criminals who raped Russia under Yeltsin. All these Russian exiles have been extremely vocal critics for years out in the open without anything happening to them.
I think people latch onto this story because they want to believe life in Russia is so autocratic and dictatorial now that Putin will do “anything” to shut up his critics. That there is no free press in Russia and linking Politskovaya’s death to Livinenko somehow “makes sense”. Well I don’t know who killed Litvinenko or Politkovskaya but I do know there’s not a shred of evidence (you know, FACTS) linking their deaths to agents of the Russian government.
Quite frankly, Berezovsky and his ilk make me sick. Not only did they openly rob the Russian people under Yeltsin but they are close friends with the neocons in America. Berezovsky is a close friend of the Bush family and is a business partner in Neil Bush’s Ignite! “education software” company that Barbara (the elder) Bush loves so much, etc etc.
I’ll wait for the medical and law enforcement authorities in Britain to investigate Litvinenko’s death fully. In the meantime however, let’s turn the anti-Putin rhetoric down a notch, eh? I realize the man is no saint but let’s criticize him for what he’s actually done not what some loony dissidents have accused him of doing.
Pax
Good stuff. Kudos on the investigative reporting that the media fails to do.
It’s odd, watching the media over time, it’s like they all pretty much have one “cohesive” story. The story changes from time to time and it’s only when you sit back and look at it that you see it.
We all know about how the media’s “cohesive story” in 2003-2005 was all pro-Bush, pro-war in Iraq. Now the same journalists are falling over each other to jump on the new “story”, which is the Iraq war is a quagmire.
Similarly, the media used to be full of rhetoric against people who wanted limitations on gun ownership. Now you almost never hear criticisms against those who wish to limit gun usage/ownership. The “story” seems to be that EVERYONE is mostly “pro-gun” these days.
Etc etc. Some democratically elected Presidents, such as Alvaro Uribe, are regularly lauded and praised. Others like Putin, Hugo Chavez and Ahmedinajabad are now the “bad guys”. Uribe, Saakashvili and Yushchenko are “good guys”. The truth is they all have their bad side and their good side, yet the “cohesive story” is different for some than for others.
Ironically you’d think Evo Morales would be one of the “bad guys” but nowadays it seems he’s one of the “good” ones. There’s really no rhyme or reason to it.
All I know is Putin, Chavez and Ahmedinajabad are way more legitimate and way more popular (at home) than is dear old Georgie, so maybe its time for the US media to get off its high horse.
Pax
It all depends on the public relations they have.
BTW, do you remember how the Libyans hired Billy Carter to lobby his brother for their embargoed planes? Apparently he was set up by Ted Shackley’s group in order to discredit President Carter (they hated him and his CIA appointee, Stansfield Turner).
Huh? There is no real investigative reporting here – this article is no better than half of the mainstream pieces – it just offers a different point of view.
To be investigative, this would need to reveal something we didn’t already know, that wasn’t already out there.
Just because someone is one of us doesn’t mean we should trust them blindly, anymore than we should trust the media blindly.
Nowhere in his post did he mention L’s last act – which was to tattle to an oil billionaire on how Putin had screwed him. That would provide a strong motive for Putin to have silenced L once and for all. Oil is something nations kill for, as we of all people should understand.
There is MUCH more to this story than has even been scratched upon here.
In case you haven’t seen these…
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:vA38XOLDXnYJ:www.chechenpress.co.uk/english/news/2006/07/05/01.s
html+putin+pedophile&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2/
http://www.counterpunch.org/putin.html
I couldn’t say these mean anything regarding this story.
Just a little more for the grill.
Sorry, I didn’t mention before, but I don’t know if the timeliness of this alleged assasination means it wasn’t an assasination.
If this guy wasn’t perceived as an immediate threat, for whatever reason, maybe his allegations weren’e getting traction, then there would be no reason to kill him immediately. Then it would just be a belated fuck you, sorry I didn’t make it to your party.
I haven’t followed this story closely, so I don’t have a well considered opinion about what it’s all about.
Just tossing in.
I may agree with you that it is very difficult to know what exactly happened.. after this is a spy novel in real time.. or so it seems. There is no way to know what really happened unless you were involved.. and maybe, with a little bit of luck if you are a british officer in charge of the investigation.
That said, there are serious flaws and mistakes in your argumeet (I am sure you are acting in good faith, but other people could say that you were distoring information).
You have very arguemnts to say that there is no proof that Putin did it, absolutely right. But you have two arguemnts to enforce taht they DID not do it. the “why he was not killed before?” and the “”it is a big lie, no way it could be Polonium”. Both completely dead wrong.
Saying that he was not killed before is actually not argument, it is a rethoric phalacy. It is not serious, or at least it does not sound serious. In Italy, judges were killed by the mafia, but not inmediately, not at the moment they became dangerous, but much mroe later. When Borsellino was killed was well after he had amnaged to put in prison large chunks of the mafia.. something like 5 years for the first attmep and another 10 (roughly) to really make it. Killing soemone takes time.. specially if there are protection services around.
Besides, we just do not know when or where he may have became dangerous to Putin or Russian mafia or whoever. This does not mean than Putin did it… but in no way shows that they have nothing to do.. actually , they do have soemthing to do ,at least because the murdered says so…. of course he may be lying… that’s what spies, ex-spies, and political or mafia friend of Berezoski do. We just fo not know.. but as an argument saving Putin.. no way.
Now for the serious flaws in your second argument: Polonium. Here you are really off the park. I do not know if you are physicist or work in the nuclear business.. but your data is particualrly accurate in some aspects but completely wrong in others. Either you really have no knwoledge and got some bits of information here and there without kwoledge or you just know about it and just put false information. And this is basically you are main reasong against Russia government implication.. when this falls, the rest also falls down.. and I repeat ad nauseam I am not saying that Putin or the FSB did it.. I am stating that you can not say that the did not do it.
So, let me set the record straight.
Yes Polonium is very difficult to obtain.. it is not that difficult in the sense that there are a lot of people that could.. but they should be very well connected with the nuclear industry. Actually, some break of security is probably the most probable source.
NO, you do not need the level of miligrams you say to kill a person. You can have much more. Actually, a standard protection you can build on your own house is enough to make it completely save for you to carry it… and put it later whenever you want. When we physcist talk aobut mortal danger, and kcurie dosis etc.. we always alarm more than necessary because, well if you get an overdoes.. the results are alarming. You can savely put the polonium you want in any food… not eat it.. be around for an hour or two.. and nothing will happen to you.
On the other hand, if you have ingested this quantity of Polonium you will die for sure, there will be traces of radioctivity in any fluid. Furthermore.. you would become a continum source.. so if anything is very close to you ..and depending on the dosis, it could not be secure to be close to the victim for more than a day.. so, if Polonium was found all nurses and doctors will be checked up..and put on prevention.. not very much they can do about it….
Also autopsy could become a problem depending on the level of radioactivity, doctors will have to use protection to check the level or radiation with the body open and try to compute the quantity of the substance…I guess we will be hearing about that for a long time..
And of course.. if radioactive traces are found .. all the places where he stayed for more than half a day will be checked to know the level of radiactivity..I am sure british authorities will be on it…
Summing up, killing someone with Polonium is perfectly possible, and a FSB or Putin murder is perfectly possible… this does not mean that there will be any proof in the future… their best hope is traking the source of Polonium,a s you say, it is not that easy to get.. but knowing the dosis and guessing the origin is their best chance right now.
A pleasure
Yes, thanks for this. I can’t believe that a youngster above calls this post “investigative reporting.” It is filled, as you say, with logical fallacies and also with tabloid-style nonsense.
I wrote a long response last night, but decided to hold off till daylight.
Putin had means, opportunity, and motive. There is LOTS of evidence pointing toward Putin. The author of this post claims there is no evidence implicating Putin, and that is simply silly. Many have been convicted of murder on less evidence.
Soj’s writing usually seems pretty solid. I’ve never seen it go so far off the rails before. Why is Soj carrying water for Putin like this?
One paragraph really annoyed me: “And guess who one of the doctors was who “diagnosed” Litvinenko as being a victim of thallium poisoning? Why it’s John Henry, who “coincidentally” was also one of the doctors who treated Viktor Yushchenko for his “dioxin” poisoning in 2004.”
Why the arch quotation marks around the words diagnosed, coincidentally, and dioxin? This is tabloid-style trash, worthy of Rush Limbaugh or Bill O’Reilly. Yes, that’s what doctors do, they diagnose. No, it’s not amazing that Dr. John Henry was involved–naturally a case like this would attract the best toxicologists in Britain. Why is this “coincidental”? Is Soj suggesting, like some dark UFO theorist, that maybe the British medical establishment killed the guy to harm Putin? What nonsense.
Finally, that paragraph is obnoxious because of its flippant and erroneous treatment of the Yushchenko case. Yushchenko WAS poisoned; it WAS done by Russian or pro-Russian forces; and it WAS done by dioxin.
As you say, it’s also ridiculous to claim that the fact that he survived for years of opposition is proof that Putin didn’t do it! Putin may have just been biding his time; he may have been getting increasingly angry over the years; or, more probably, Litvinenko was starting to get close to some really sensitive issues.
And of course, the presence of the polonium drastically narrows the scope of persons with means to do this.
Maybe the trail will lead to some strange malefactor. But I suspect the story will die down, nobody will ever be caught, and another cloud will forever hang over Putin.
That bit about John Henry was unnecessary and just a lot of hand-waving. My biggest problem with the “Putin did it” analysis, though, is that this greatly imperils Russia’s ascension to the World Trade Organisation.
BTW, why are you carrying water for the UFO debunkers?
I wuld not count on it. Strong interests on Russia going to the WTO.
I am not particularly sure that PUtin did it. Ex-KGB mafia, section against section of the FSB adn of course, pure spy , contra-spionage (british and russian secret services in a double or triple game about relevant information we will know).
I think this will be around the MI5 and the MI6 and not the police… they will evaluate.
Still, I think , unfortunately, everything will be pure speculation.
A pleasure
I don’t mean to quibble with you on this but an investigation I DID do (as opposed to this one, which was just 5 minutes of googling) was on the “dioxin poisoning” of Yushchenko.
I realize it makes a much better story to believe the evil Russians dosed up Yushchenko with just enough poison to hideously disfigure him just in time to derail his popular presidential campaign but it just didn’t happen that way.
I do see however that the good doctor John Henry, after remotely diagnosing (ala Bill Frist on Schiavo) thallium poisoning, is now spouting off to the media “precisely” how Litvinenko died of Po-210 irradiation. Quite a feat that telemedicine.
I guess what astonishes me is seeing with my own eyes how making a story believable actually does make it believed.
Pax
I was just pointing out that all options are possible,a nd include among them that Puting and close member of the FSB did it.
Over the ET link there is more
Polonium
And furthermore.. we have very interesting discussion about the exact quantity needed for the poisoning (miligrams or micrograms) and wether it makes more sense that he inhaled it or drink it…
A pleasure
I’d be interested to hear your story about what happened to Yushchenko.
Ok, and this is the super short version. My full investigation on this is somewhere floating around on the internet if you’re dying to read it.
To begin with, there are many documented cases of dioxin poisoning so there is a benchmark – of course those are all accidental industrial cases so theyre not exactly the same as it being ingested.
There are several variations in terms of symptoms from what Yushchenko has/had – to begin with, the onset of things like the chloracne (the disfiguration you see in his face) usually happen quite a while after the exposure. Furthermore, after exposure has stopped, the symptoms begin to fade. Think of it roughly as slow-acting poison ivy.. you dont keep the bumps on ur face 6 months or a year afterwards.
All THAT being said, the hospital where Yushchenko went is a private pay clinic in Austria. Some of the doctors there are legit and one doctor who criticized the diagnosis was threatened with his life and resigned. The one who DID support the diagnosis is a known quack of the first order.
And, even though the guy has been the PM for a long time now with full access to the halls of justice, there’s been absolutely no progress in the “case” of who supposedly poisoned him. It also makes extremely little sense in terms of someone poisoning him – to what end would anyone do that?
The official “theory” is that he was disfigured intentionally and it was not a murder attempt. But why would anyone wish to disfigure him? It just made him more sympathetic. Secondly, although it doesnt get much press now, Yushchenko’s a pretty darn good friend of Russia. He’s not a Smirnoff (Transdniestr) or something but he’s hardly the “devil” that needs taking out or something.
I’ve yet to see an independent medical assessment of what happened to him. All I’ve seen is that blood samples supposedly from him were sent to indy labs and confirmed as having dioxin. But even if he WAS dosed with dioxin, there’s no proof anyone did it on purpose or who even did it.
In other words, the knowns are few and the unknowns are many.
Quite frankly this is just my guess but somehow this happened unintentionally and Yushchenko’s team played it up to the hilt for all the drama it was worth – and it was worth quite a lot.
Also, for the record, it’s been PROVEN that Berezovsky helped finance Yushchenko’s campaigns. And this is the same Berezovsky who was Litvinenko’s bestest buddy. THAT is the common link here, not the evil FSB poisoning Russia’s enemies.
Pax
Yeah – i don’t have time to take Soj’s article apart now, but wow – that’s really poor debunking – lots of generalities, increcibly selective use of evidence, etc. I started reading up on this poisoning over the last couple of days and I believe Soj is way off base here, which is sad and disturbing since I often like Soj’s posts. More another time, if something else hasn’t intervened by then.
You do know that Zawahiri was detained in Dagestan for almost a year and that the Russians claimed not to know who they had in captivity, released him, and that he immediately conjoined EIJ to Bin-Laden’s organization?
You are also know about the FSB getting caught with explosives in an apartment building in Moscow?
These are not just some wild theories, they have facts behind them.
Look to Baku for the links with the African embassy bombings, the USS Cole bombing, the Kuala Lumpur meeting, and 9/11. There are potential Russian fingerprints all over the place, as well as the fingerprints of Gary Best, Richard Secord, and the Enterprise.
Nothing is provable. But that doesn’t mean things don’t stink.
Interesting.. I’d never heard of these things.
I did some poking around and it seems there’s just a single source for the story that Zawahiri was arrested in Dagestan, which comes from the WSJ. No link to the original but a summary is here.
I’ll just assume for a moment that the “captured laptop” story is completely true. Yet if I’m going to presume the Dagestani authorities couldn’t figure out who Zawahiri was, then I guess I’ll also presume the American ones couldn’t figure it out either.
I’ve seen the footage of Zawahiri in Egypt from 1982 – the guy was not an unknown small potato even before 1998 embassy bombings etc. So either BOTH the Russians and Americans failed to stop him through ignorance/stupidity, or else one of them is secretly his sponsor, or else both of them are.
Obviously I can’t say which but if Putin can be tied to sponsoring/training Zawahiri then so can Clinton on evidence this thin.
Pax
It would seem to be a terrible time for Putin to knock off a dissident on foreign soil in such a high profile manner.
As for Litvinenko’s history of run-ins with the security establishment in Russia, Christopher Farmer makes a few good points:
Litvinenko
nota bene: Many here will not appreciate Mr Farmer’s take on a lot of things. He’s not only rather conservative, but he tends to allow that to cloud his otherwise astute judgement about things related to intelligence matters (eg. the liberal media loves terrorists).
I’m not sure what to make of all this. Of course, that’s what these controversies do, whatever the intention. They cloud the waters.
I do think that people should read the comments on the European Tribune.
Excellent suggestion to look at European Tribune. I’d never been there before, and it does indeed have many interesting comments on this issue.
..comments are normally way better than the original diary.. with some exceptions.. of course… but then nobody dares to comment 🙂
A pleasure
Brit Sunday paper, The Independent, UK
Litvinenko: police probe claims he may have killed himself to discredit Putin
then there’s Ignore the conspiracies. Spies never forgive a traitor.
Imho, the fact traces of Polonium-210 was found at his home leaves a huge ?
the fact traces of Polonium-210 was found at his home leaves a huge ?
One place you would expect to find traces of Polonium would be his toilet. After all, they identified polonium from a urine sample.
Thanks a lot .. for the link.
In ET there are some people from Russia.. they will be interesting to hear… when they come back form holidays 🙂
A pleasure
start blaming someone for a political death it is best to not believe them. Without a shred of eveidence in the past week they have found Putin guilty of murdering Livinenko and without a shred of evidence and with logic pointing in the opposite direction have found Syria guilty of offing Gemayel. The wesyern media is rapidly becoming the propoganda mouthpiece of John Bolton et al. It is sad to conclude that a political story in Soviet period Pravda is now probably closer to the truth than any political story we will read in our propoganda apparatus.
Whew… I sure am shocked by the number of responses so let me just add a few comments, probably what I should’ve said in the beginning.
I thought a lot about this diary today and I think the appeal of this story is its direct assault on the limbic region of our brains. We want to have things link together, in this case “Putin bad” with “Politskovaya murdered” with “Litvinenko poisoned like in a movie!” and so we connect the dots in our mind.
It occurs to me that there is little known about Litvinenko’s death at this point, and if you think of what’s known as “raw intel” and you look at how our limbic system slash MSM slash vociferous horde at Americablog have converted this into a “slam dunk” case against Putin, why it’s no different in substance than Cheney et al cherrypicking Iraqi intel.
There is no proof that Putin did it nor is there proof that Putin DIDNT do it. Right now the appropriate thing to do is follow the legal investigation as well as ask the age old question “who benefits?”.
Saying Putin automatically “benefits” from having a long-time critic die in full glare of the worldwide media while crooking a deathbed finger in his direction seems beyond the pale of what’s reasonable.
Considering there are radioactive traces of Po-210 in at least 3 locations, the more logical conclusion is that Litvinenko or something Litvinenko was carrying was the source of contamination.
If Litvinenko, either intentionally or not, was transporting a microgram of a radioactive substance around and “self-poisoned” himself (actually irradiated), well that would fit the established facts so far as well.
My issue with this case is not that a bizarre radiation death is unnewsworthy. My issue is this limbic lust to want to hang this around Putin’s neck. As Boo and many others have said, there’s plenty of SUBSTANCE to tie to Putin withuot this John LeCarre oddball stuff.
Pax
When George W. Bush came to power in 2000, I had certain (low) expectations of him and of what is to come. Although the campaign and media imaging were exactly the opposite, the low expectation were not surprising, given the family history, for example. Whatever happened in these 6 years, I had very few surpises regarding Bush presidency… too few to mention. I think that many bloggers here share that feeling.
Regarding Putin, I was not following him right from the beginning. But of possible patterns of Russian development(s), Putin’s presidency fits a pattern that allows pretty impresive conspiracies. I am not saying that his involvement(s) can be proved beyond reasonable doubts – I find assignments or meticulous proofs of possible criminal culprits not practical or even important here. Rather, what I am saying is that I think I know Putin’s soul way better than George W. claimed to know once. (Herewith I do not exclude the possibility that Bush actually, rather than rhetorically, knows or recognizes Putin’s type very well.) What I think is that the Kremlin guys are ones who would do such a thing – keep control of the things with this kind of murders, with their own timing and methods. This is akin to the credence that Bush & Rove & Cheney are kind of guys who would go to a bloody dirty war just for the sake of political dominance or fat profits. Again, I am not going into a discussion of whether it is Putin’s involvement or non-involvement that is more credible given the facts. What I see is a strong confirmation of a certain non-arbitrary pattern or development. Mister Putin has all the “right” to say things he says, and continue doing things he does (including, undoutedly, many things important to his country). Whatever my suspicions are, I do not have any practical implications for anyone, except perhaps for a group of rich Russians in London and similar places (if they only need my practical hints). All I know is that the image of al Qaeda terrorists in Iraq trying to influence the US midterm elections of this year is a laughable wash, while the recent events around Politkovskaya and Litvinenko are far from laughable. But we will in the world we have, not in the world we would like to live in. So much from me…
I have been asked to comment on this diary.
I absolutely agree with it and thank soj for taking time to write what I haven’t had the opportunity to. I don’t know enough about most of the specifics mentioned here to comment on them, but I do know the only way I will believe Putin was involved in this is if you can prove to me he and his advisors have all recently had a batch of full lobotomies. Though I would not be shocked to see such a thing reported in the Western MSM…
Also, as I don’t have a ton of time to spend on debunking the debunkings of the debunkings, I’ll just say the arguments against Putin being behind Litvinenko’s death run parallel to those against Putin being behind Politkovskaya’s death, which I wrote about here:
http://www.eurotrib.com/story/2006/10/25/181617/28
Oh, and I’m not a “Russian Expert,” so don’t take my word for anything.
Thanks for weighing in, poemless.
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