I just clicked on the New York Times and found this excellent and very lengthly article titled Legal System in Iraq Staggers Beneath the Weight of War.
There is not much to for me to add, except my feeling of disgust that here is one more example of what we have wrought. Just today we were talking on Super’s diary about prison/legal system here in the US, well evidentally we can make even that a worse mess in Iraq.
Legal System in Iraq Staggers Beneath the Weight of War
By MICHAEL MOSS
BAGHDAD — In a cavernous room that once displayed gifts given to Saddam Hussein, eight men in yellow prison garb sat on the floor facing the wall, guarded by two American soldiers.
Among them was Abdulla Sultan Khalaf, a Ministry of Industry employee seized by American troops who said they found 10 blasting caps and 100 sticks of TNT. When his name was called, he stood, walked into a cagelike defendant’s box and peered over the wooden slats at a panel of three Iraqi judges of the central court.
In 2004, American troops detained Laith al-Ani, shown in a family photo. He sent his family a letter, above, from his detention camp, but they say they do not know why he is still heldThe judges reviewed evidence prepared by an American military lawyer — testimony from two soldiers, photographs and a sketch of the scene.
The evidence went largely unchallenged, because Mr. Khalaf had no lawyer. The judges appointed one, but Mr. Khalaf had no chance to speak with him. Mr. Khalaf told the judges that the soldiers were probably chasing a rogue nephew and denied that the explosives were his or ever in his house. “Let me examine the pictures,” he insisted. The judges ignored him. His lawyer said nothing, beyond declaring Mr. Khalaf’s innocence. The trial lasted 15 minutes.
The judges conducted six trials of similar length and depth before lunch, then deliberated for four minutes. Five defendants were found guilty; one was acquitted. “The evidence is enough,” Judge Saeb Khorsheed Ahmed said in convicting Mr. Khalaf. “Thirty years.”
The United States established the Central Criminal Court of Iraq three years ago, envisioning it as a pillar of a new democracy. But like the faltering effort to create effective Iraqi security forces, the system for detaining, charging and trying suspects has instead become another weak link in the rule of law in Iraq, according to an examination of the justice system by The New York Times.
The stakes are rising. The court has begun sentencing American-held detainees to death by hanging, 14 this year.
Almost every aspect of the judicial system is lacking, poorly serving not just detainees but also Iraqi citizens and troops trying to maintain order.
Soldiers who have little if any training in gathering evidence or sorting the guilty from the innocent are left to decide whom to detain. The military conducts reviews to decide whom to release, yet neither Iraqi detainees nor defense lawyers are allowed to attend, according to military documents and interviews.
Tens of thousands of detainees have been released by the Americans, often under political pressure from the Iraqis, but American soldiers complain they are apprehending many dangerous insurgents again and again. At the same time, detainees are held for long periods by the Americans without being charged, in some instances for as long as two years.
Even detainees who are formally charged and brought to the Iraqi court have little ability to develop a defense against evidence collected by American lawyers and soldiers. Most defense lawyers are appointed by the court and paid $15 per case. Even if they are so inclined, they are largely unable to gather evidence because of the threat of violence. One American lawyer said that in 100 cases he handled, not one defense lawyer had introduced evidence or witnesses.
As an aside to this I was watching a show on cable last week, called “Off to War”, I believe and it was about a young soldier who was home on leave and sitting with his buddies having a beer and talking about Iraq. What’s it like there, did you kill any Iraqi’s and so on and eventually the soldier said you know I think the only answer is to kill all the Iraqi’s. “All of them his friend replied, how do you know who’s guilty of anything”. “We don’t”, came the soldier’s reply, “that’s why I say we should just kill them all.” To their credit a couple of his friends said that was nuts and the war was a big mistake and so on, but just think how many others might just feel that way.
The Bush Administration, of course, takes pride in the system. From Attorney General Alberto Gonzales’ remarks at the Council of Foreign Relations in December 2005:
I’ve been saying for sometime now that what we know is disgusting and beyond comprehension, but what we aren’t yet aware of is even worse. I hate being right about that. The more we stir in this pile of crap called Iraq, the worse it smells and the worse it looks.
I have no doubt Abu Gonzoles is pleased with the system they have fostered in Iraq. . .I’m sure he would like to institute the same here. I wish someone would just lock these people up in a mental institution where they belong, but away from the general population of patients so that they don’t adversely affect their health and welfare.
These people are disgusting and without conscience!
If years from now another hideous 9/11 takes place and it turns out many Iraqi’s were involved people will be wondering that very question I would guess. After all we freaken ‘liberated their country and ‘freedom is on the march’.
I’ve written about 5 more paragraphs and keep deleting them out..some days I just don’t have the words(if ever) for how I feel about the horror that is Iraq and what is happening to all the people there.
I know what you mean chocolate, it’s hard to find words sometimes, the futility of words is another thing, we can write all the words in the world and it won’t change a darn thing there. 30 years in prison, with a few mintues of trial and deliberations is harsh beyond all measures. Not to mention those that receive death penalty.
I have a big problem with our soldiers role in all of this, is this what they have been trained for, are fighting for, to participate in this kind of kangeroo court.
Will Iraqi’s ever be able to pull themselves out of the mess we have made there.
If anyone has trouble with the link in the story, use this one, story is at the top of the page.
http://www.nytimes.com/
hi diane..that was one of the parts of comment I deleted-about what the hell were our soldiers doing playing cop and jailer basically. Or as you said presiding over Kangaroo Courts.
Futility is a very good word-maybe someone should give bush a word a day calendar with words like futility, megalomaniac, robber baron, warmonger, bill of rights, theocracy and some good old standbys that he seems to have no knowledge of like lying, cheating and stealing. Then again that sounds like too much reading for him to do. Speaking of reading he told People magazine his favorite book (that he’d read this year) was on Lincoln-by Doris Kearns Goodwin.
About Bush and his intellect, I gotta tell you my latest realization….it would be like my son-in-law, ‘bless his heart’, who is none too bright, becoming President. Not that he could not have been educatable, he just wasn’t educated and now his brain is such a mish mash, well you know, it seems too late without extreme intervention.
About the soldiers doing this sort of “work”, lordy, lordy, lordy, if you take one example of the soldier I cited at the end of the diary you can see what the ramifications of this are.
We have created a system or situation just like in Vietnam, where all of them are tarred with the same oil of the bad guys including euphanisms of ethnicity.
I am encouraged a bit to see that some foot soldiers are now preparing a petition to Congress to withdraw troops, not that that is going to happen, but good to see more and more of them breaking out of the indoctrination they are constantly fed.
I’m encouraged by that too diane-few rays of light here and there. My hope is that this petition will get much press(although am not counting on it)and start to snowball with our troops. The more sign petition the harder it will be for any backlash against these soldiers from the military.
If the general public start to get the message that even the troops want to come home from this fiasco we might finally get real groundswell of movement with the public.
I’m totally speechless…
Hey Diane, I had been wondering if there was even a justice system set up yet in Iraq. Jeezus H Cristo, This is worse than not having a system.
Is there any info on how many are in the prison system there.
How many children are incarcerated? How many women?
How many ex virgins?
What will the people who created this hell, say, when they try to enter heaven; you know, the one that only christians go to.
Every single day one can find something even more horrible than yesterday`s atrocity. Then, there`s yet tomorrow. I`m glad I read your diary. I`ve been known to do public rants, starting slowly & drawing in more listeners, with hints of more wisdoms to come. Then when I do my smack-down, everybody slinks away & hide their daughters. Hahaha.
Here`s an example; I was explaining to my friend, when he`d heard about one of my outbursts, what had happened.
“I tell people the story of little baby Jesus at the manger in all the malls across America, & about Mary & Joseph& the
sheep & cow in the stables. I talk to them about the shepherds & the wise men who brought gifts & comfort to them.
I seem to get a good reception to my lovely nativity fable but seem to lose the crowd, when I get to the part about,
THAT`S WHO WE`RE BOMBING, YOU FUCKING MORONS.
Then some idiot calls mall security saying I`m in the war on xmas.” HAHAHHHSAAHAHA
I didn’t check back with the article but I think we are holding about 14,000, some of them for years,(why and that’s a good question) others are put to trial and released, but that would be the smaller number. I am not sure of the other numbers, (and can we trust most of the numbers anyway) I do think Iraqi’s are holding thousands, and now with the long term prison sentences, must be a great need for more prisons and Halliburton will no doubt get that contract.
Dena had already told me about her small bout with new justice system, it’s a sham, and was at least livably reliable with Sadaam.
To me it seems to be farrrrr worse than under Sadaam.
I did a diary last year about the treatment of women in prison and it would curl your hair. That’s under us or England. I’ve seen documentaries showing their were many children in prison as well but just don’t know the numbers. Any is too much for me.
The truth is we don’t want to know what we’re doing over there. Why? Because it would fry our circuits. Does not compute within the American brain. But we’ll be forced to see it oneday. Just like the German villagers that Eisenhower forced to tour the concentration camps. It ain’t gonna be pretty and it’s gonna fuck with too many American’s ignorant and holier than thou existences. To tell the truth, I’m looking forward to it. It’s what we deserve. All of us. And you know what else? Bush and crew deserve to be executed for their crimes outright. There I said it. Evil scum.