In August 2005 there was a diary here by MilitaryTracy that reignited my desire to get involved and make my disillusionment and disgust with the war in Iraq known in a very public way. She talked about going to Crawford, Texas to support Cindy Sheehan in her demand that George Bush come out and explain to her the “noble cause” that her son Casey lost his life for in Iraq. Though I had been active for many years, in different ways and for different and diverse causes, my passion was waning and dormant. I’ll always be grateful to Tracy for inspiring me to get back out there.
I wish that no one needed to protest another war in this country. I wish our leaders had learned their lesson from Vietnam. But they haven’t. In fact it seems like they are hell bent on drawing us into a conflict that could have a much greater disasterous effect for many countries, not to mention our own. I won’t deny a certain anticipation that I feel when I do get to make a trip and protest with likeminded people. Especially those of you here that I so deeply respect and treasure as friends. And I’ve expressed feelings of guilt about the social aspect of some of these protests. Thankfully a couple of you set me straight. But honestly, when I think about the nature of today’s anti war protests, which are pretty tame and painless compared to protests of the past and when I contrast the sacrifices I make to get to a protest against the sacrifices of our military men and women, but most especially the brutality and suffering we’ve unleashed on the people of Iraq, that feeling of guilt returns. BooMan has an excellent rebuttal to those who say street protests are a waste of time. He explains why he thinks that they are effective and how they are effective:
“the real power of street protests was never the coverage they received in the press. The real power was the fear induced by an assembled mob on the steps of Congress or the White House. It’s the same power that led to the Orange Revolution in the Ukraine, or that led to the fall of the Eastern Bloc and the Berlin Wall, at the end of the Cold War. Protests may be peaceful, but they have the potential for revolution. The more revolutionary the rhetoric, the more fear inspiring the protests are. “
He’s right to say that, because it’s true that governments do feel threatened by mobs of people who gather in the Capitols, and the result of feeling threatened is almost always a violent crackdown on the protesters. If we are talking about Tiananmen Square or Ocxaca or Selma, then yes, protests are a threat and there is a serious risk taken by anyone who attempts to confront those in power and there is a real possibility of forcing the government to change it’s policies. But there are no attempts at pressing, confronting, or putting fear into the government here in the U.S. We gather at a negotiated for and pre determined site, walk along a prescribed route for a couple of miles, step off and rest, get drinks, rejoin, and head home. The city cleans up the mess, the cops aren’t challenged, the government isn’t challenged, and we all go home feeling as if we are changing history, or at least witnessing history. There is worth in this. But there is no incentive for the government to change course because there is no threat. Maybe this is because this current anti war movement is in it’s infancy and events haven’t gotten so intolerable for the people yet. There is no draft yet. Most Americans aren’t directly affected by the war or have a son, father, mother or daughter who’ve been killed in Iraq yet. This comment by MaryB2004, in a reply to BooMan’s dKos version of the above linked diary better conveys what I’m trying to say. Today’s protests are harmless…so far. I think things will have to become a lot more dire before any real opposition is mounted.
In spite of those feelings I do still think that these events have a great value if they are a stepping off point to engagement by more and more people who think there is nothing they can do to change anything. And there is a great deal of comfort and hopefulness to be gained from being with those who feel the same way you do and are willing to do something outside the normal channels. I was taken with how EJ seemed to be experiencing something like that. Just watching him watching and seeing him quietly absorbing the moment, the atmoshere of dissent was kind of moving to tell you the truth. The same with Manny. Several times I heard them say that there are a lot of people here. It was cool to see it in them because I feel the same way. Those of us who’ve been to other protests noticed that there were a lot more young people this time. That is always an encouraging sign. Lot’s of people brought their small children. The lesson being taught to them is invaluable and we’ll all benefit from those little ones in the future. To all parents who involve their children…thank you. But I hope that thos kids will never again have to be at an American war protest. Sadly though I think this is just the beginning because Bush sure doesn’t give one single rat’s ass what we say. Not yet anyway. But if he keeps escalating this war and putting our soldiers in the impossible situation they are in where they are perpetuating a criminal war, yet have to risk prison to disengage from it, when he’s talking about attacking a country that can inflict serious damage on us then we’re gonna have to do our own escalating. I hope it doesn’t come to that.
I originally started out to write another one of my feel good post protest diaries but I think that there are unpleasant events on the horizon, and it darkened my mood a bit. I have some opinions that clash with some members here, especially those who are close to our soldiers. I’m sorry that there is conflict and I know that some of those opinions are deeply hurtful and offensive to people I care about. I wish we weren’t going through any of this. But I can’t change the way I feel. I think that this war will end, like the Vietnam war ended, when the soldiers themselves can no longer justify being a part of a machine that is commiting war crimes. When they can no longer bear the burden that this president has placed on them, and they begin resisting in larger numbers. I agree with BooMan and others who say that the war would end sooner if there were a draft because more Americans would be directly at risk, but I see no point in having more people killed to end something that has already gotten too many people killed. We’re all going to be forced to resist in larger numbers and forced to place ourselves in dangerous situations before this is all finished. Because this sick bastard who is occupying our White House isn’t going to go quietly. He won’t.
Update [2007-1-30 8:50:43 by supersoling]:
Here are a few pictures I took. I’ll load more later as it takes forever on dialup….
…The crowd moves closer to the stage. I’m not sure about the official crowd size estimates of 100,000 or less because it sure looked like a lot more people than were there in 05 to me…
…Actually, this is the crowd gathering toward the stage…
…The BT crew…
…Tampopo…a very cool kid ;o)…
…Anyone recognize this guy?…
…Ann Wright, who resigned from the State Department in protest…
…Recognize this guy yet? It’s Ray McGovern, CIA analyst and one of Reagan’s PDB briefers, who just happened to be right in front of us…
…Here he’s shooting the breeze with BooMan. The content of the breeze is classified though. I’ll let BooMan decide whether to share it or not. My own personal opinion about this picture though is that Ray is explaining to BooMan that there will be no President Cheney if we impeach Bush because we’re going to impeach both of them.
…more later…
Update [2007-1-30 12:52:59 by supersoling]:…Here’s a couple more from the protest…
…distree signal…
…ignored and stepped on, kinda poignant…The next day I took a walk alone in the rain…
…This is the Dept.of Education, across the street from the hotel we stayed in. Bush marking his territory like a dog pissing on a tree…
…The empty reflecting pool in front of the Lincoln Memorial say’s something about the emptiness of Washington…
…a different age, a different love…
…a Man………..
Powerful thoughts and feelings. I worry that your dark fears are just over the horizon.
Hey super-
A few things.
First, it was great to meet you. Honestly, the whole weekend I was thinking damn, I’m glad this guy is on our side. Even when you’re silent, your resolve and quiet intensity are apparent and inspiring.
Second, I agree with maryb’s comment too. Though it was my first march, I gave up on its effectiveness as a domestic policy affecting event when I learned how scripted it was. I mean, did they get permits for that? Come on. Not exactly what I was expecting.
Third, I think it’s worth it anyway. As BooMan wrote earlier, I think it is important to give international audiences real, tangible evidence that in fact we are not all whackjobs. And for us to get together and recharge, and see we’re not alone. Not by a longshot.
And lastly…you are right in saying that just visiting DC, and being there in that spirit had a profound affect on me. Sunday morning I went out to visit many of the memorials; I stopped at the WWII Memorial for a rather long while.
As I told you Saturday night, my grandfather is the greatest man I know. He was a marine in WWII. And he is mad as hell about what GWB has done to this country.
And as I looked at the “Michigan” pillar in the WWII memorial, I thought, my grandpa fought for that; his friends died for that. It hit me pretty hard; I had to stop at a bench on the way to the Lincoln Memorial for a few minutes to gather myself.
I bought him a WWII Marine Corps. Veteran patch from one of the vendors between the Lincoln Memorial and the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. It was just a spur of the moment thing that seemed like the right thing to do. I’m going to send it to him along with a picture of that Michigan wreath and pillar, and tell him thanks.
And that I won’t give up. He’s getting on in years now, but I’ll continue to fight the good fight as best I can.
Just to piggyback on a couple of things, ‘cuz it’s bedtime:
First, it was so good to meet everyone. I really, really enjoyed that opportunity. But the strength of the blog really dawned on me the next day, which gets to the second and most important point.
Used correctly, this can be a medium where people are drawn together for action. E.g., BF and I live close by, relatively speaking, but how else would we have met? How would I have met you or Super or anyone else? There are so many “differences”: region, race, state, gender, age, occupation, etc. But because we have a POV on this space, our thoughts, our beliefs, cannot be market-segmented into oblivion. And that’s a good thing.
I had some other points, but they are fuzzy at this point. If they sharpen, I’ll share. Meanwhile, I’m glad you found inspiration at the WWII memorial. Honestly, it’s not my favorite, but I do know what it means to people. My great uncle on the hubby’s side stopped at NOTHING to get to that memorial. NOTHING. No matter the distance, no matter the heat. And to see people thank him for his service…well damn, I had never seen anything like that. It was the high point of his visit, and he was so happy that I took him. He spoke of it often.
He died two years later.
Seeing as it’s early, 🙂 I’m going to piggy-back on your comment, AP.
You’re absolutely right about the effectiveness of this medium in bringing people together – and I’ve met some truly amazing folks that I wouldn’t have known otherwise. Outside of this – we’re left to random encounters – and it just isn’t that often where an opportunity presents itself to engage in political conversation with a stranger.
I’ve recently been sparked into action by several events. First, the inhumane treatment of fellow humans during the Swift plant raids. For the love of god – NO ONE deserves to be tagged and lined up based solely on the color of their skin! (Christ – I can’t even write about it without feeling sick and needing a damn tissue.) Second, the stars were clearly aligned for two encounters last week – both of which let me know there are far more of us out there than those who post on blogs. The first encounter took place when I set up an obligatory “meet and greet” lunch with an attorney I started working with – thinking it would be one of “those” lunches – where both of us would be struggling for conversation and checking our watches every 5 minutes. But…there was something about the guy’s welcoming, soft-spoken demeanor that prompted me to ask about his politics. Turns out he worked for the ACLU for many years, and before we knew it, three hours of passionate discussion had taken place and we’ve made a wonderful connection.
Another event – which heartens me more than anything because it involves the next generation – took place when a dear childhood friend of 40+ years entrusted me with the care and education of her teenage daughter. Never having the experience of home schooling a child, I didn’t know what to expect. Well – until that beautiful young woman knocked my socks off with her incredible knowledge of current events, civil rights – and even knowing the difference between neocons and true conservatives. In fact, I used BT as a source of education, and she loved it. Although I’ve known that young woman since she was a baby, we’ve now connected on a completely different level. Most importantly, all of those events brought back my voice.
In a post down thread, Cali mentioned that the administration is using Lt. Watada to set an example, and she’s absolutely right. In turn, the “authorities” will do everything possible to threaten folks such as us – and try to keep us apart and quiet – with ludicrous and unconstitutional actions such as “free speech zones”. Let’s not take the bait. We need to keep connecting – and turning those connections into meaningful, non-violent actions for the betterment of society. No matter the route we choose to do so.
I’m glad that my “quiet intensity” didn’t throw you off Ej. I’m often misread because of my silence in certain situations or my face conveys something different from my actual feelings.
It was a pleasure to finally meet you too and I too find myself a little shaken and awed by the dramas that lie behind some of those monuments. It can stop a guy dead in his tracks. I think there’s a reason why you and I and Manny all ended up walking to those places alone instead of together because we each have our own ways of taking it all in that need to be quietly absorbed when there is no one there except for you and the ghosts. And I like I told you, I too have a Grandfather, though not my own, who is the greatest man I’ve ever known who also fought in that war and who likewise is outraged with this president. But then there are things that he says that throw me for a loop, like his reply to my statement that 600,000 Iraqi citizens are dead because of this war, which was that those things happen in wars, as if it’s normal, and why are they so determined to kill each other when I had to explain that they are dead because of this country, whether directly or indirectly. And that’s where I can’t connect the two parts of me, one who honors his very existence and the other who feels repulsed to hear any human say that those things just happen. It’s a parallel of my ambivalent feelings and loyalties to my country and to my soldiers.
But this is certainly true, I’m sure glad you’re on our side too.
Peace
when the troops themselves will stand and say “No more!”
It’s why the military is going so hard after Lt. Ehren Watada — to put fear into the hearts and minds of those who are considering making a stand. They know that Watada is merely the first small pebble falling out of their collapsing dam.
But thanks to the work of Appeal for Redress, and groups that post fliers at military bases under cover of darkness, and many others working behind the scenes, hopefully the day will come when military members and their families will realize that they did not sign up to defend this country only to be used and abused by a madman and his cronies.
May the day be coming when we join together in Washington and elsewhere, not to protest, but to celebrate a new beginning, the beginning of peace and sanity…
Thanks for your candor, ss – your passion is obvious, and we all know how much this type of event means to you and so many others – to participate in the demonstrations. (But, what would a draft bring us – except the same crap from the 1960s – where brothers such as mine, who came from a poor family – didn’t stand a chance against the draft – and the rich always prevail.)
As much as everyone loves to trash Nixon – forgive me, but he did NOT screen his audiences – and no matter his paranoia, he MET with the people. And yes, I have experience in this matter, with one of my closest friends being on campus during the Kent State massacre.
The current “Emperor Without Clothes” has never had the balls to meet with people who share a different opinion, being the chicken shit he has proved himself to be. (And no…NSA…sigh..this is NOT a threat to your beloved “leader”…I’m just sayin’…your “Commander in Chief” is the most royal fuck up on the face of the planet…not just now…but throughout the entire history of this nation.)
Thanks for your comment -A-,
I’m not sure if Bush avoids engaging with those who disagree with him out of fear. I rather think that he simply doesn’t give a fuck what anyone thinks. He has his orders and his agenda and anything else is a waste of his precious (mind) time.
I missed the protest this year (had to work arg!), but I was there last year and said to myself and my friends that I knew I’d have reason to be back the next year because I knew we wouldn’t be out of the debacle 12 months from then. I don’t know when the hell we’re going to get out either. And it’s so fucking frustrating. What the fuck did all of us work so hard for on all the campaigns we wrote about, told our friends about, volunteered at, donated money to… It seems as if we’ve just elected a new bunch of cowards to the same old seats.
Unfortunately, I think I’ll have at least one more chance to walk with fellow BooTribbers next year.
Well said Super. Sorry to have missed you.
I agree with you that this movement needs something to kick start it a bit — to make it uncomfortable to those in power.
But there’s some value in coming together — even in all the tame passivity that marks our current protests. We are witnesses to the wrong. And we, as human beings, grow stronger knowing that we are not alone in witnessing the lunacy.
It is hard to measure our (your) impact. There is not tourism-protest, like ours now, and then the next day — war is over. But I’m convinced that this anti-war movement, started by people like Cindy Sheehan, Tracy, you — it impacted last year’s elections on a par with Katrina, or more. And it continues. I do not go a week in public without being recognized and singled out for my contributions locally. And I’ve been dormant half a year, for the most part. There is something to all of us. In whatever contribution. It is growing and cummulative. It will stop this war, has already begun to — and it will make war in Iran more difficult. And the struggle will continue with the children who were at your march, and good young people like EJ and Manny.
A story — in court yesterday, I overheard two men whispering together. They were white, older, civilians — non-lawyers. Average Joes. They were talking Iraq. Stay the course. Saddam was a terrorist. The lives lost by Americans in Iraq paled by comparison to losses in other wars. I slowed down to listen to them. And their whispers disappeared to a very soft hiss, as if they were discreet lovers. Half-wits. Yes. But half-wits cowed by our movement. And reality of course. They dare not speak their moronic babble aloud, for fear of ridicule. A long way we have come. Some thanks to you and those who have sacrificed to speak the truth aloud when no one wanted to hear it.
Good job on being there. Peace in 2007.
Beautifully said.
I’m fed up with free-speech zones, and permits, and the fact that many times there are more cops at peace rallies than there are at other gatherings.
I wish we had more direct impact, but I think the rallies do have value. In the past the rallies seemed like the culmination of the anti-war movement, now they seem more like a starting point to me. As a result of attending a rally in Albuquerque, I made a few more phone calls yesterday. I probably would have felt too beaten down and tired to have done it if I hadn’t gone.
What you say about witnessing is important in my opinion. The act of coming together in person has a powerful resonance.
My question to myself is how much am I willing to do? How great a cost am I willing to bear? How much sacrifice will I make?
As much as I disagree with their mission, the military men and women of this country have the courage to risk their lives because of a commitment they made or because they believe in a cause. Others, like Watada, risk going to jail to oppose it.
Most of us are making far less sacrifice for our beliefs and commitments. Are we willing to be as brave as the troops?
Hey Kahli, didn’t see your post when I too wrote about the free speech zones. You and Joe have made excellent points. What are we willing to sacrifice? Well – first we have to counter the message that’s coming from the top down – in which dear George wants us all to go out and spend our money. NO
Sadly, I don’t have a good answer to your question of sacrifice. I’ll openly admit that I’m not willing to put my life on the line – but it terrifies me to no end that something out there is brewing for our nation to be under attack. Occupation level attack. And we won’t have the troops here to defend us. In that instance, I will defend myself, my loved ones and the most vulnerable in our society – without ANY hesitation.
I witnessed a heartening event involving one of those brave troops you speak of. A young gentleman I know and love broke my heart when he joined the military last year. But, no matter the $1,000 a head he was offered to recruit, he found a way to not serve in that role – telling me that he couldn’t bear the thought of putting another young life in danger. While it may come in different forms and small pieces, there is still hope.
Super, Your point about the solidarity one feels is well taken. Our local rally was sparsely attended when I first arrived. But upon getting in line with the others present, my personal feelings were forgotten and I was able to concentrate on the business at hand. I have to believe that our smaller event had at least some small impact. If nothing else, even my 8 year old felt comfortable enought to raise a sign against the escalation. And that is no small thing.
Thank you for being there and thank you for helping to ensure a brighter and saner future by enlisting the help of your son. We need a million more B2’s and Baby B2’s :o)
Emotionally I’m expecting him to hit Iran, whether we do it or Israel does it with our super secret top secret blessing and protection from two carrier groups in the gulf while we bleat that all we are doing is maintaining stability in the region. If people fighting him at the top can turn that around that just a win for me. I have accepted the fact that he is the dark lord my generation is going to have to overcome and so be it. I don’t fear him anymore, I consider him an equal opponent except that he is stupid. He makes up for that though in the power he may be able to wield. The one thing that he has always had on his side was that he didn’t have to contend with or see any of us before and for some reason he feels safe when he can feel elite and privileged, even when the whole world despises him and his own people pray for his reign of terror to be over as soon as possible. Hell, when the fucker rolled into Fort Carson to give a speech the closest that a protester could get without getting arrested for security reasons was five miles away. Cindy figured this out about him and she pulled in quietly and nonviolently to Crawford and put a crimp in his style, when he might have to look at the witch from his kingly nightmares he was not a happy camper damn it and she was. Someone allowed the Anarchists to break through the police line at the D.C. protest and would not give the police the authority to use force. Who was that? Two years ago they would have been pounded a pulp. There is one thing that Bush cannot abide and that is being heckled. I believe that protesting needs to remain peaceful. We can do better though by taking in this American King’s weaknesses and planning for those….while still being nonviolent. He is my president. I pay his way and he is my public servant and if I get into a speech and ask some loud questions from the audience that is my right. It is my right and duty as an American citizen to also be able to get within distance of his sight to show him my discontent with how he has been leading me and my nation! Surprises is what gets press coverage and red faced president’s being finally asked the hard questions.
Speaking of surprises and press coverage, I want us all to go to NYC and stand outside there at the Today show, you know, where all the people bring their signs for mom and dad back home in Kentucky or wherever to see on teevee? Only, I want to bring anti-war signs with me. Maybe a dorky tourist slogan on one side, flipped over for the cameras at the appropriate moment?
You might be out of luck…
Groups grapple with ‘parade’ rule
Who had this bright idea and why?
NY has to be the toughest American city to protest in. The restrictions that have been instituted make it nearly impossible to gather any significant group anywhere that will have an effect on who or whatever is the target of the action. Bloomberg is in mucho tight with the Bush machine and he’s cracked down hard. The shit that happened to people at the Republican convention in 04 was the most blatant example. That, and restrictions on useing the sidewalk/street, how many wide you’re allowed to form, saying that Central Park is off limits to protect the grass when there are routinly large concert crowds there, denying permits…you name it. Wilfred could give you a better idea of all this I’m sure since he lives there and attends most if not all rallies and protests. Regardless, it needs to be challenged, forcefully if necesarry.
They name Critical Mass explicitly. Why? Bicycles are a direct threat to the War for Oil. Bicycles are an alternative. As long as you have to gas up your car, it doesn’t matter what you think: The War for Oil will have to continue and you will be supporting it.
And of course, if they can shut down bicycle riders it just makes them that much ahead on suppressing other dissent.
After a couple of months, the cops were around not to break heads but to direct traffic.
I remember how the NYPD just waded in on Critical Mass while I was there two years ago. And the harassment and jailing hasn’t ended YET?
So, as long as we disperse ourselves throughout the crowd and don’t move as a group of >49 people, we might be okay?
It really ticks me off to see our representatives wasting time and money restricting our freedom to assemble, instead of doing something that might actually be of benefit to the public.
you feel so deeply and that is why I love you so. As I said on earlier diaries about the protests this weekend, we know we aren’t going to change BushCO but know that the representatives have the power to do so. It is our duty to stay on them and in their faces until we get our kids back home safely.
When I first arrived on the scene downtown Saturday there were maybe ten people on the corner. Over 2500 ended up there and it was envigorating. I am newly energized to keep up the fight. We all can do this by hitting the streets or writing campaigns and/or both. I feel for me it is my patriotic duty to do so.
Where I differ from what Tracy just wrote “he is my president” I will never give George the honor of that title. NOT EVER!!
Yes, I do believe this is going to get worse. One man at our protest here said “you are all being so politically correct. You need to get mad and you need to get personal.” I believe he is right and I believe you are right too Super. Someday, we will march side by side.
I’m sure they have a formula to extrapolate the numbers of protesters to the size of our opposition. They do have a formula for how many people one phone call or one letter represents. “These days, one letter represents the voice of 15,000 people,” Senator Pete Knight said in 1996.
So to my mind, one person standing on the mall, or lying down to spell out ‘IMPEACH!’ speaks for at least a million. That’s why it’s so important to belittle the numbers.
I don’t want you to ever have to do it again either, but am very grateful to those of you who can make the stand when I can’t.
Thanks for doing the work of posting photos, too – it does my heart good to see it.
180 million is 60% of our 300 million population that is openly opposed to this war. Going by your percentages, I think the number of people who should be at the Mall is 28 million. It would be a dream just to get 15% of that number or even just a million.
I’m not trying to diminish what was accomplished on Saturday but I’m talking more about the nature of the protests not necesarrily the numbers. Tampopo taliked to me about the million women who showed up in a relatively recent gathering. I think that when we can generate those kinds of numbers, if we ever can, combined with more spontaneous and direct forms of protest, then the establishment, not Bush of course, but the institutional apparatus will take notice.
I said I’d read and comment and I will.
First off, I think the DC marches are about empowerment moreso than stopping the bloodshed. But I don’t believe they will cast any change from the killing and deaths. Simply because Americans are not angry enough.
I think most protests are too political nowadays. That’s why they are so segmented, like an orange. They aren’t about stopping the murders, waste and wars… they are about political lines.
Half a million people in the streets. Barely a word about it in America. No shock though because WE THE PEOPLE don’t rise up in anger and DEMAND the “news” cover this and other things. WE THE PEOPLE have allowed and tolerated so much to be done in our names that now… who gives a fuck what we have to say really.
Americans in other countries are now seen as either being
too powerless to stop any of this
or
too apathetic to care
or too supportive…
Gee, doesn’t that suck? I think we as Americans like to see ourselves in a light that shines with power, decency and always on the right side… and we’re not. Bush and this Regime and what we’ve ALLOWED them to continuously get away with prooves it.
So back to protests… Revolution is needed but we have no “political voice” no “political power” no “agenda”… I didn’t think revolutions needed to be so organized… (snark)
One day people will be angry enough, frightened no more and they will truly MARCH.
Ask people to go to DC and there’s a sense of something… I’m not sure what it is yet but it’s “safe” in many ways to stroll through DC with half a million (or as CNN says ‘tens of thousands’ of people) but I’m betting that many of those marchers would think twice before surrounding or entering their local federal building. No, that would be too dangerous, their might be…
inconveniences, repercussions… arrests. It may not be organized to your liking, it may not have the large crowds as a cover of safety. Their may be people there you disagree with…
WE THE PEOPLE want someone else to do it. We’re complacent in the thought that someone else will make the sacrifice, someone else will find the time, someone else can be arrested.
I got sick and tired of people telling me, “you march for me”. Or that they supported my efforts. Oh really? Now I know that the only people who do support me are the ones who are right next to me. I may not even know their names… but they are angry enough to be with EIGHT other strangers, ready to cuff themselves to a building (or what have you). People drive by and holler their thanks… I don’t want their fucking thanks… I want their back up, I want their feet on the street.
It’d be nice to have half a million people march every day. It’d be nice to have half a million people shut off their idiot boxes and start thinking. It’d be nice to have half a million people truly support our troops who are dissenting. Half a million people who want the killing to end NOW. Half a million people willing to listen to what is really going on.
In the movie “V for Vendetta” they ask, if your government killed 100,000 innocent people WOULD YOU WANT TO KNOW? I don’t think many want to know. Or at least not the full extent of the nightmare. Just enough to make them mad, to make them uncomfortable, maybe even a tad bit paranoid… But to really know what is going on would mean realizing just how powerless we’ve allowed ourselves to become. The knowledge that it’ll take so much more than we’re used to – to stop it.
I’m a anti-war activist. That’s what it says on my tax forms LOL… Every damn day I protest this fucking war and the lies Bush spews. Every damn day I get approached.. sometimes its good most times its bad. But I no longer worry if it’s going to make the mainstream media, if there’ll be arrests or even friends present. It simply needs to be done.
Yes, I’ll go back to DC again. But not to stroll through it’s streets. I’m too damn angry and too damn tired of losing my rights and seeing people murdered in the Gulf and the Gulf states. I’m too damn tired of seeing gay people bashed, or liberals viewed as terrorists. I’ll go because I’m fucking angry as hell and I won’t take it anymore.
As some know I support those who have the courage to resist the calling to go to war and kill Iraqis. The ones who refuse to goosestep along because they have orders or have signed a contract. I doubt there’ll be half a million people at Ft. Lewis. I doubt anyone knows that Iraq Veterans Against the War have been sleeping in a bus for weeks outside the gate.
One thing I do know is that there’ll be criticism of war resistors, there’ll be blogs and blgos and words and words… but there just isn’t enough anger… we arne’t tired yet. It hasn’t impacted our lives… our freedoms enough.
Once you give up a right… you don’t get them back. Clinton, Obama… anyone.. won’t get them back for us. There isn’t a special political fairy that will fix all that Bush has destroyed. WE THE PEOPLE will have to again DEMAND they be returned…
But people already feel we’ve “won” due to the elections last Novemeber. Things are okay in New Orleans as long as there is Monday Night Football. Every thing is a-ok. We have jobs, kids, choir practice, a car that needs a new transmission, bill to pay, shopping to do…
Besides someone will go to the protests if they are important enough, right?
But it’s on a Monday… not a weekend. And it probably won’t be the “big one” that accomplishes much… because we always have to return, every day.
Till our shoes fall off our feet..
Till we are no longer afraid.
Till we are no longer imprisoned by our own apathy.
I do not think marches/protests are meaningless. As I’ve stated before, I stood alone and protested before DC. A one woman CodePink event I was. I went to DC and saw that I wasn’t alone… but DC is only a beginning. Not an end. We have to continue marching each day. Let DC empower you to continue on. Let DC empower you to find your voice, your anger, your resolve, your peace.
We have to keep the meaning of the marches alive every day. Marching is the easy part. Keeping the meaning alive and living it every day is what’s hard.
Because of DC… I’ve marched many other streets and there are more streets to march on.
Not all of us will find ourselves standing in DC… not many of us feel the need to tend to dying and disabled in Beirut or Jordan… but we all must find it in ourselves to say “NO MORE!”
We must continue till we can walk no more.
I’m so glad that so many got a chance to catch a wave on this incredible journey. DC is not a stopping station… it’s just the beginning. 🙂 Make sure to keep your head on a swivel, keep yourself healthy and make time for you and your family. It’s easy to lose precious ground on those matters. It’s easy to get angry for the wrong reasons. It’s easy to think you are not doing enough, more…
It’s no longer about being safe and comfortable though.
NO MORE WAR!
Scream it till they hear us. Scream it till you can hear the anger and the resolve in your own voice.
That’s when the revolution truly begins.
With yourself.
DJ I for one am glad you are posting again and how ever briefly at least we know you are not afraid to tell the truth!! I love you DJ!!
Love you, too. Thank you for the kind words.
It’s not just how you protest, it’s how you also try to live.
tax in protest?
{{{{DJ}}}} Damn good to see you again sister. So glad to find you still full of passion, drive, heart and commitment. Fighting the good fight. Standing true to your values. It’s incredibly admirable.
It’s funny, I think your willingness to put yourself physically on the line does put you into the same excellent, patriotic, company of Lt. Watada (his fathers speech was fantastic). You are both upholding your duty to the Constitution to defend your country from all enemies, foreign or domestic. I’m sure your strength of conviction and all the struggles and risks you’ve gone through to get to this point, make a lot of people uncomfortable when they don’t see the same of themselves in the mirror. That’s not your problem, it’s there’s.
Just know there will always be a refuge for you up here should you ever need it.
Peace babe! Keep on, keep’in on.
In no way am like Lt. Watada or VFP or IVAV. And it’s in no way about me. NOne of it is really. This is all about stopping war. All wars.
I’ve privately written to Supersoling and let him know what my extremely progress company does with federal taxes for those of us who are opposed to war and slaughter. My place of employment is very supportive of my activities.
I still refuse to engage and guess I should again take leave as I didn’t want to cause another shit storm.
I told Supersoling I’d read his words and share mine.
Hey, don’t dismiss what you do Janet, it’s incredibly important. It can’t just be the military vets and war resistors who speak out – soldiers answer to the civilians… they need your support in order to say no.
In terms of the other issue… why do you think I’m not around very much anymore (outside of being incredibly busy at work)? I love most people here, but the ‘my way or the highway’ and ‘I’m better than you because I’ve suffered more’ shit can get you down. The only reason I didn’t say anything was because of you and super and everyone here who cares so much about stopping the slaughter and restoring sanity to your country. Pettiness is so unappealing in the end… and very transparent. Meh, enough of that. You do what you do and write where and when you feel comfortable. If you need my support ever, I’m here.
I wish you’d blog more at your place though. I just sent MCat a link to it as she was asking where you’d run off to.
Lately every time I’m at an event which is mostly VFP/CodePink/IVAV there are military men and women giving themselves up. The media doesn’t tell how many have gone awol or resisted. But it’s more than the “official” count of the DoD dead. (More than 3,000 service members have been butchered by Bush) More than that have resisted and are resisting.
It’s not just Swift or Watada… it’s the ones who come to those events to find the arms of support. We need to keep their names in the limelight so that others know there are people resisting.
Did you know that there are IVAW “campaigns” going on in Iraq and Afghanistan? Anti-War graffiti and Bush bashing in Iraq by our own troops? They can only do this with our support. Many though do it because they believe that no one gives a flying fuck. The whole “support the troops” nationalism has them afraid to speak out, too. But now… they can.
As to blogging… I simply don’t have the time, energy People have seen the faces of other protesters. They know it only takes one person to create a movement… They’ve seen the vigils. Plus my words are just words… I don’t have any desire to back up my words in some fucking blog when I can instead be spending time with my family or with my fellow activists.
I’ll try to take photographs this Monday. If I get some, I’ll blog them after work. Not sure what’ll happen though. But I know it isn’t meaningless.
who break the law are worthy human beings. When everything went to pieces where my husband works over the things that were posted in two of my diaries it was because the soldiers said that they have already been to Iraq…some of them for two years…then to make you happy and think they are worthy they go to jail for six years. You would write a nice diary about them and when Iraq is all over and done you all slap each other the backs, job well done, but they will sit in jail because they broke military law and you will all return to “how you try to live your life” while they have no life. All income and insurance and pension is forfeited and their families are without…but you will be fine and a hero because you were a protester. They said they don’t care if you think they are war criminals, it’s just your opinion and a very over simplified sanctimonious one at that.
how you don’t support this illegal occupation except for your husbands job? I am not being snotty I just want to know.
It hasn’t been made illegal in the real world and sadly soldiers have to live in the real world and they pay real world consequences. If the law were changed the soldiers would be more than glad to all stay home, believe me.
The “real world” includes International Law does it not? Or do you hold the same rightwing stance on obeying International Law and Treaties that Bush does?
It’s an illegal war. Get used to it, lord knows the WORLD has. You’ll feel better, I promise.
I don’t hold the same stance as Bush but I’m not the decider of this right now, now am I?
You should go read the Constitution.
International Law and Treaties the USA has signed ARE US law.
Did they not teach you that on the base?
who uphold the law you are wrong. Until different people come to power who feel differently in the real world of soldiers and going to jail for breaking military laws you are still wrong.
Gonzales upholds the law??
Are you a Republican? I’m seriously asking, since this is a rather strange statement.
Kosovo was illegal under international law.
And the AG is the confirmed official that enforces the law in this country. If he/she refuses to interpret the law in accordance with the Constitution (like Reno re:Kosovo) that is something for Congress and the courts to deal with.
You are not making a very compelling argument here for why soldiers should feel the war is illegal. If you break it out and separate it from the Kosovo mission, that might help.
Okay, imnotasoldiernoranamerican, hope that’s enough of a qualifier.
I wasn’t making a case, I was pointing out where Tracy was factually incorrect on what is or is not US law according to your own Constitution.
But nice to know I have to “prove my case” whereas Tracy does not. Whatever, nice logic and fairness doctrine you have going.
You are talking about what is legal under international law and you are asserting that whatever is illegal under international law is also illegal under American law. This is not true.
We don’t, for example, recognize the authority of the International Criminal Court.
We do have obligations under the UN charter, the Geneva conventions and so on. And clear violations of our obligations should be held as unconstitutional under the treaties portion of the Constitution.
However, that is not how the AG has interpreted the law. And until the courts (as in Hamdi) and Congress (i.e. FICA) rule that the AG is wrong, then the law is what the AG says it is.
Soldiers that refuse to obey orders that are legal under present AG constructed law are going to be court-martialed and stripped of pensions.
If we could just pursue the conversation with this in mind we would do better.
They are being EXTORTED by criminals–who claim, falsely, to be America’s elected leaders–to commit unjustified, premeditated, cold-blooded murder.
NOTHING, NOTHING IN THIS WORLD OR THE NEXT will wash them clean. Putting on happy-face just does not help.
What can help them reject and abandon these crimes? That would be worth doing.
btw… everything the Nazi’s did was legal.
~ Martin Luther King, Jr. via Dammit Janet
And your point is?
My point would be, in this context, what obligation did the average German citizen have to resist what the Nazis were doing? Should they have payed their taxes? Should they have risked execution or a concentration camp? Certainly they had some obligation to do resist. I’m assuming here that you would argue that German soldiers were morally, if not legally, obligated to refuse orders. What of the citizens?
The UN Council seems to think so too. Go read this
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/attack/lawindex.htm
jail when they say it’s an illegal occupation then it isn’t an illegal occupation in America Leezy and that’s just more building castles in the air. Your opinions right now have no affect on the legal binding consequences that soldiers have to deal with. Right now it’s just an opinion even if it’s the U.N.’s opinion. It isn’t the law of this land.
My take on this is that each of us supports this war in their own way. At a minimum, paying your taxes helps fund the war.
For soldiers, asking them to give up their freedom and pension is asking a lot. And if you are going to ask them to do it, you should consider doing something comparable.
Obviously, it isn’t quite an even match. A civilian isn’t put in the position of disobeying a direct order that is of questionable legality. But there is a bit of similarity in paying taxes that will go to fund something of questionable legality.
I think the real point is about how one goes about criticizing the troops. Are you willing to make the kind of sacrifices that you are demanding of others? If not, why not? If not, then maybe there should be some sensitivity and some respect for the difficult position the troops find themselves in.
Just my take on the controversy. All told, I wish both sides of this debate would not reopen old wounds and re-fight this battle on the same old terms.
I wish both sides would step back and take in the legitimacy of the other side’s argument and moderate their stances.
I didn’t realize that there were differences between civilians with ties to the military and civilians without.
Disobeying direct orders… I guess you haven’t been told by ten police officers to move from the entrance of a building? Have you been forced to be frisked by Homeland Security?
But these are just apples and oranges… I realize that… but I didn’t think we had to preface our stance against the slaughter of Iraqis with “Imawifeofasoldier” or “Imalowlypeaceacitivst”.
And since you think you know all about me and what I’m about… and what I’ve done and do…
I’ll take me leave.. again. Sorry I tried to share. It won’t happen again.
I don’t think that’s what he said DJ. I heard him asking for sensitivity. It’s not a lot to ask for. And no one can seriously deny that a soldier, no matter his intent in this war, is not at a greater risk of losing his or her life compared to what passes for protesting these days. The time when protesters routinely face down armed and willing to shoot police and paramilitaries in this country could very well be just over the horizon, but it ain’t here yet, not on any comparable scale to what soldiers in Iraq are facing. We can at least reach out that far, can we not?
So I guess we should just lower the standards in America till it gets bad enough to do anything… don’t get angry till they’re shooting us…
And just how will we know what happens at protests… how will know when people are beaten, injured, their teeth knocked out…
Paramilitary – try watching “left to die” by Elizabeth Atly regarding what’s going on right now in NOLA. Of
course there’s Greg Palast and Amy Goodman who get guns in their faces for trying to report things…
oh that’s right.. I’m not living in the “real world” of George Bush and his military.
Sorry.
That’s not what I said and that’s not what he said Janet. And I’ve been aware of Blackwater troops in Nola since day one. My opinion is not uninformed. You and others may be risking your safety and the stability of your families by engaging in protests that have the potential or real danger that leads to people being beaten and killed. Those things are happening now. But it isn’t the average 21st century American antiwar protest that ends that way…not yet. It was kinda the whole point of my diary, how lame these protests are. And how will we know? We’ll know because it will be happening to us. And sooner or later, the longer W thumbs his nose at the will of the people, all protests will carry that danger. We’ll know because we are them.
My comment was not singling you out. I am not making assumptions about your tax returns. I’m asking that both your side and Tracy’s side try to make an effort to hear each other and not just have another fight on the same terms as last time.
This “Fight” you speak of… it takes two to fight. From what I recall there was only one fighting. I did not and have not engaged..
And furthermore.. you want me to moderate my stances???
Who are you to tell me what to do?
You judge others here and then allow for how they will be treated by others here based on what you ASSUME of them. What the hell do you know of my taxes? My spare time, my advocacy?
There was no fight. In fact it took a long time of being bashed around here for me to eventually take leave. I did not bash anyone here.
I do not have to legitimize my stance or my critique of this bullshit “war” for you or your friends.
Watada never once asked me to stop paying federal taxes. Not once. He just asked for our support.
I won’t lower myself to anyone by stating first what I do or have done to your likings in order to legitimize my actions.
Where it really upset me badly before it doesn’t so much now. I guess it has become part of the landscape of things and the current climate we all live in. I won’t be going overboard about it all Booman. I can keep my cool now. I understand better now that I am very much this odd little minority in America but I do intend to bring this odd little minority’s truth to the table. I’m even okay if Janet wants to continue demonizing soldiers that serve right now. I’ll just have to deal with it huh? Hell, I look up to Jim Webb and he’s in office…we aren’t necessarily so scummy on the landscape of left now. At least I know someone who really understands and if I get upset I’ll just call him and cry ;( I wonder if he would take that call? Uh Senator, there’s this bawling blogger on the phone who says that people just don’t understand about being in the military ;). I wonder what Jim would say?
I respect the position you’re in Tracy. It’s beyond difficult and impossible for many of us to understand. Unless you’re a spouse, sibling, child or parent of a soldier you simply can’t know how difficult. For myself, that fact makes it very hard for me to express the way I feel about things because it does seem sanctimonious for anyone who isn’t risking their life or dealing with the risk of losing a loved one to express any opinion that sounds like we know what soldiers should be doing. But in spite of the fucked up territory we get into when we try to talk to each other, I still want to try. I really don’t think that anyone here, certainly not me, feels that all soldiers are personally war criminals. My point, at least I hope how I’ve tried to express my point, has been that all soldiers are tainted by war crimes because the war itself is illegal, despite what American law says, and we all know that some bad bad shit is happening over there. Happening because of the impossible situation they are in, happening because some of them truly do get off of smoking innocent people, and happening because those who once had a grasp on their humanity are losing it.
It is true though that the war in Vietnam really did end when the policy makers no longer had a viable military because they abused it, because they ordered their soldiers to commit war crimes, and because it was those same soldiers that resisted who were the one’s who tipped the scales…at their great personal risk and cost. They were court martialed and jailed. No one of us can casually say what soldiers should or shouldn’t do. I don’t say those things casually and I certainly don’t mean them casually. My opinion didn’t start out this way. It changed over these past four years. But I won’t be told that I’m not permitted to voice my opinions unless I stop paying my taxes anymore than I’ll stop because George Bush calls me unpatriotic. I don’t want to go to jail and I sure as hell know that my kids need me here instead of in jail, but my kids and yours for that matter need me and every American who gives any semblance of a fuck about their country to be willing to risk going to jail to oppose what is happening and to support those soldiers who are contemplating or already have dissented and risked their own freedoms.
running around this blog or this country claiming to be a Nation of Laws when we want “W” impeached and pull the Nation of Laws out from under our arguments on our whim when we want soldiers to stay home from Iraq. It makes us a bunch of hypocrites and no better than Bush and friends when we just want to run roughshod over the law because we said so and this is the easiest way to get what we want. I never promised you that living in a Nation of Laws and a Democracy was going to be easy, only that it allowed for accountability. I can’t find real solutions or seek real solutions that are going to work when I build castles in the air….nobody listens then when you/I/we aren’t credible in the real world.
I know you did because I read that you did. How many ways were there to make a military not viable? It wasn’t just the soldiers who resisted who made the military no longer viable friend….it was a lot of the soldiers who went who also made the military no longer viable. You did read that Bush is giving people citizenship for fighting for him and the soldiers are already beginning to arrive from this new venture of his, so just exactly when do think they are going to run out of fresh meat now? I think you had better keep the guys you have who disagree with all of this in place working within your military. It would also be nice if they respected you instead of despising you and only viewing you as just more of the problem.
I only watched the trailer but I’ve read more than I wanted to about how Vietnam unfolded from within the military. I gues I haven’t been clear. When i say resist I don’t mean just those who refused to go or those who fled to other countries. Those guys were a part of it, but the larger and more significant part was from those who resisted from within, from in country. LeftVet had a great diary at dKos a few days ago about some of his experience. I’m talking more about those who flat refused a platoon leader’s orders to to engage the enemy or to go out on patrol. When fraggings became commonplace those same platoon leaders became less and less determined to press their men to engage because there was an implicit threat to their lives from fragging. Black soldiers were particularly more aggreived and willing to mass (relatively speaking) disobet orders. Underground military resistance newspapers got information out to soldiers in country and out. Not to mention the mass disfunction from dropping out by using and getting addicted to drugs. There were many ways that soldiers resisted and it came to a point where the balance of it’s effectiveness as a fighting force was tipped in the other direction. There’s a book called Soldiers in Revolt bt David Cortwright that tells much aboput how this happened.
Super, my husband refused the order to shoot the looters in Al Anbar province that first year. I have written about this, people know this! He told the commander in front of all the other pilots that it was an illegal order and against the Geneva Conventions and they didn’t know what the hell to say to him and for the 3rd ACR in Al Anbar that one little thing saved untold people until the Marines took Al Anbar over from the 3rd ACR. The 3rd ACR had just gotten back from Bosnia and everybody looked around and said….”Oh yeah, the Geneva Conventions,” they had already been in combat observing the Geneva Conventions. Bush didn’t get to pound Fallujah until he got rid of those little bastards in Al Anbar! It broke my husband’s heart watching it on television too!
Please keep trying…
I know what you wrote Tracy. I read just about everything that you do write. I value your opinion for a lot of reasons. But see…this is the fucked up territory I was talking about. It’s this thin line that I feel forced to walk in order to express myself. And how can I do that without it becoming personal for you? I can’t. I don’t ever want to say things that hurt people I care about but this conflict here is a microcosym of what will be happening more and more out in the country. It truly sucks
That your husband valued the lives of those looters and disobeyed an illegal order to protect them is a great testament to his humanity, but that Fallujah was later flattened anyway by members of the same U.S. military is an even greater testament to the obscenity of this war and while your particular soldier is one who did the right thing he is too few and too far between. It broke his heart. It should break his heart. He’s a human being. But what is the next logical step?
Supersoling. Not by miles. My husband nearly sobbed seeing what happened, but for the sake of what one man can do to save others while his ass is so far out there on the line and then for him to be so carelessly labeled a war criminal. More people would have died if he wasn’t who he was where he was that day and empower others around him to follow the Geneva Conventions every day that followed that one for a year….and to be held in such contempt by people who have never faced such things or such challenges let alone found themselves challenging people who could have your ass so totally. It is one thing to sit on our asses and bitch on a blog and show up to peace marches, and it is quite another to hang your ass out on the line in the middle of a war zone and actually save real lives in real life and in real time. He is far far from the only soldier who did this or who continues to do this. It doesn’t really matter if any of you want to join those who empower those from within Super. They have decided that they will do what they can without your support, and on that day and those talks with people I know and care about my soul became at peace with had happened here. I worry about them all too much right now I guess, but they are far stronger people than any of us here.
There was one time when you were pushing Sir, No Sir and I thought…wow, he gets it. I guess only Vietnam was the right war for soldiers to refuse illegal orders in and be commended for it, not this one though huh?
It’s just tough on me sometimes. Most soldiers will not talk about certain acts of decency either because they want this war over. I literally saw soldiers shaking their heads recently when one soldier wanted to talk about some of the finer moments in Iraq because they are terrified that sharing such moments will empower Bush….give him propaganda to feed the people and a little more energy for the war to continue on. They are all saving their tales of better people for ears that will use it to heal…not harm.
I thought that I just did express my admiration for his actions. I only used Vietnam as an example of what happened then and how it happened. There’s nothing that raises that war and those who participated or didn’t in it above this war and those participating in it now. I get a lot of things. Other things I don’t, but I’m trying to get it. Maybe it’s a gap that just can’t be bridged. I wonder though Tracy, is it not possible that there’s some gettin to be gotten from your quarter too? Despite the very real and unimaginable fears that are faced by you and yours?
I think I want to leave it be for now though. I’m a little weary of this tightrope I’ve walked out onto.
Take care
I don’t think my husband really wants your admiration. I don’t think any of them really want that. I think they just want you to care on a human level about them. Some of them are doing really good things….some of them have done nothing that we want to talk about but we will have to deal with. A lot of them will go to jail with my blessing and your blessing and the blessing of their fellow soldiers for what they have done and a lot of them already have. My husband stays where he is to keep as much around him legal….fewer bad things happen when things have to be legal even with the Iraq War not being illegal in this country, there are still good arguments for soldiers with rank to use for treading lightly and you all know how well I fight – and he married me so believe me he’s good at that….he stays because they are so alone right now you can’t even believe it, all they really have is each other….he stays because as almost everyone here agreed there has to be some sort of military in America and there isn’t much of that left that will be viable, he stays to be a man who hopes will inspire other younger men who will be packing a loaded gun to pause, go slow, think clearly, and don’t scar your soul it’s the only one you’ve got.
my husband refused the order to shoot the looters in Al Anbar province that first year. I have written about this, people know this! He told the commander in front of all the other pilots that it was an illegal order and against the Geneva Conventions and they didn’t know what the hell to say to him
This is courageous.
It broke my husband’s heart watching it on television too!
Heartbreaking, yet:
It is very good the deaths are not on his head. This is more important than you seem to think.
you are needed here and we need your voice. Please,
leezy and spider … they’re just more eloquent than I am … it’s really good to see you back here DJ … you are missed.
but I must share something that someone shared above
http://www.appealforredress.org/
There’s a young man with IVAW that I met. He is dying, possibly due to depleted uranium. He marches and has been arrested. Which means… he will lose his medical benefits.
Therefore will he not only die, but he will die without care. But he won’t be alone.
This is how our country “supports the troops”. This is what we fuel with our complancy.
I met a mom who flew from Germany with her severely disabled son thanks to VFP giving her a ticket. See, the US only flies families as far as to DC. She told us all of how she heard our soldiers crying for their moms. Asking her if she was their mom. Where was their mom. The screams and the entire flight was drowned out with the tears and pain of these men and women.
I saw many men stand up and say they were AWOL. I saw people take them to Canada to cross the Washington border.
This is not about what Bush wants or military laws/orders.. it’s about what is decent and what the rest of the world wants. An end to war.
None of this is about me or my family or even the troops.
We are very familiar in this house with the appeal for redress. Might I also take a moment to say that I probably could have a gotten a few more soldiers to sign it who were friends if they hadn’t read some of the crap on here and decided they didn’t give a flying “F” to sign anything you guys may ever blog about.
I’m not feeling very eloquent either olivia-have all kinds of thoughts swirling around in my head(ha nothing new there)about protesting, our soldiers and I just can’t get it settled in my mind this morning to write about …Everyone here has been beyond eloquent and thoughtful putting to shame anything I could write or add.
As for protesting itself….I always always believe this is a good idea. To me it truly embodies the spirit of our country. The physical act of protesting and gathering together of like minded people to me extends beyond the coming together of protesters. It’s a mindset that ripples out-like a ‘rolling stone’-gathering hopefully more and more people who can make a difference. The old adage is true that there is strength in numbers. I also personally think that while non violent protest is the way to go I don’t rule out the fact that I believe there should almost be a good cop/bad cop quality to some extent to protesting. Meaning a more radical fringe-radical not violent-can be a contingent to get more people-the general public- noticing and talking about the protests. So much so that this does make it into the news to be discussed and not just a few minutes of soundbites.
I’m not sure if I’m saying what I mean exactly-just that I do believe that protesting of any situation in this country shouldn’t become a thing of the past or we may lose our future.
Protesting is always the way to go. That is why we live in a Democracy. Demonizing soldiers though is one form of protest most likely to meet with failure I believe. I’m not against protesting. People can even demonize soldiers if they want, hell…this is America….but hell, this is America and can have my say about how demonizing one set of soldiers and holding others above them will get us no place except on the sidelines of taken seriously and will give us goals completely contrary to those we seek.
Good God, are you ever fierce! And I feel the same way about Military Tracy. I just hope we can protest, fight, resist in any way possible.
The end of my $0.02.
through. I was very disappointed by our MIA media. Yes, there were very short notices taken of an “anti-war protest” and very little discussion or interest shown, but nothing like the 60’s.
However, we have friends who are not afraid to speak up. I love Rosie O’Donnell! I often watch the view because I never know what is going to come out of her mouth. Last two weeks she has called for the Impeachment of this administration at least twice. Today she talked about the protest and wondered why it wasn’t covered by the press when there was not 10,000 but 200,000-300,000 people there. She let’s it fly. She rants a lot about King George and his minions.
Now, The View is no artistic gem of a show. Sometimes it is just stupid and silly or a vehicle for authors and TV/Movie Stars to promote themselves. But they have 12-15 million viewers. That’s a lot of folks that have the opportunity to mull over Rosie’s latest rant or topic of government stupidity and gross negligence. It’s a good sized platform to get people who are willing to start thinking about these things. So I love Rosie.
Even little Pocatello Idaho managed to throw together a protest of 60 or 70 people. They are having another one February 28th. I’ll be there. They are offering their protests as candlelight vigils for peace. Probably a wise choice because of the war loving, Bush can do no wrong, everyone owns a gun here, attitude of the majority in Idaho.
So, Just when we think we aren’t really making much progress, remember that we are affecting others every day. Not quick enough for most of us, but much better than no progress at all. One of Idaho’s National Guard Units currently in Iraq that were to come home in April have been notified their tours are extended indefinitely to “surge for Bush.” They’ve already been there a year this time. I wonder how many of their deaths and devastating life-time injuries it will take to change the minds of the prevailing “war,war,war” attitude of most Idahoans.
Thank you SS and everyone that marched for me in Washington. I’ll make it there yet, and I surely wish I never had another protest to attend for the rest of my life anywhere, about anything.
Big hugs
Shirl
As DJ closest friend I know that she has been threatened 3 times seriously while protesting. Yes, it scares the hell out of me.
So please put the “what have you risked” argument away.
She has put her ass on the line to stop this War.
If this comment was meant for me then thank you, but I’m aware of what Janet has done and I don’t think I’ve ever denied the danger that accompanies her when she goes. I worry about her. My opinion on the war more closely matches hers than almost anyone I know. The point I tried to make in the diary was that the big box protests aren’t the same smaller ones that are happening out across the country where it can get very personal and very dangerous. But the government doesn’t count those protests precisely because they are much smaller and decentralized. When the intensity of those types of protests is matched by those larger ones in DC and in bigger cities across the country that’s when we might see things start to shift into the realm of possibly being threatening enough to the government to begin to change the course we’re on.
Thanks
Supersoling-My comment wasn’t directed specifically at you. It was the general drift about people taking personal risks to stop this war. DJ has gone above and beyond the “Call of Duty” IMHO.
I am sorry if my comments offended you in any way. DJ has shared with me her great admiration for you and the special time in DC that you spent together.
and others…
I did not email Momagainstthedraft, in fact I was hoping she wouldn’t see this crap.
She is my closest and dearest friend, she knows things before my husband does some times. She knows my fears, she hears my confusion as well as my rage. She’s heard me bawl with the military commissions act was passed. She KNOWS. She is my rock. If it wasn’t for her… I don’t know how I’d be where I am today.
We did not “win” and things are getting uglier out there in the streets for people who are wanting an end to this Regime and it’s wars and lies.
SuperSoling, I’m sorry but you and the rest of the blogosphere aren’t aware of what has happened to me and my family. I don’t blog that much. And even when I did blog about it – I was criticized at times for sharing the ugly side… even when I ommitted some of the nasty, scary stuff.
Please don’t bash or argue with MomAgainstthedraft…
As a footnote: I’m not discussing my taxes with anyone on here.. Just as I don’t ask people who support reinstating the draft to go and enlist themselves.
Please don’t bash or argue with MomAgainstthedraft..
I didn’t mean you SuperSoling. I meant this blog. It has a way of going after people who have diverse experiences or opinions.
I’ve always tried to show the positive side of protests. Provide some encouragement and empowerment so that others might stand up on their own. I’ve achieved that a few times from emails from out of the blue regarding people starting their own vigils due to seeing my photos from the vigils here. Sometimes people just need a visual…
Anyways… I HAVE to go to work… and I have to get my mind and body ready for a event to show support to war resistors. I’ll be calling my dear friend as she helps me prepare, helps my kids prepare.
It’s one thing to put yourself out there on the line… but the killer is have to wave goodbye to my two kids. I don’t ask anyone else to do that.
No one in the peace movement I’m involved with – and that includes military people/loved ones- ever asked me to do anything either. They just ask that I continue on.
Janet, you know…
You’ve made it very plain to me through your public comments here and through private mail and conversations what dangers you face. I don’t recall ever questioning the level of danger you face, nor have I ever placed a danger level test on your protest creds as any qualifier of your value to me personally, or to the larger protest movement.
Second, the only one who asked you about your taxes was Tracy and you’ve already made it clear that it’s none of hers or anyone’s business, and I agree with you, it’s no one’s business, so I don’t know why you repeated it.
Third and last I suppose, MATD left a comment that i took to be directed at me that ascribed opinions to me that I did not express, certainly not in how I view you personally and the commitment you’ve made. You should know that much about me by now at least. Her comment was to me and it was somewhat confrontational. In my reply I thanked her and straitened the record. I don’t see that as bashing or arguing.
Peace
look above 🙂 I left out a sentence.. I didn’t want anyone to bash her.
I didn’t mean you. But.. I don’t read MATD’s as being confrontational. She’s a peacemaker. Like yourself. However, I think her comment was to the people who are making the “what are you risking” comments. Not you directly.
Booman has also mentioned the tax crap, too. That’s what is so infuriating and why I bring it up. It’s like we now have to preface any point we have by stating whether or not we pay our taxes.
I understand. It’s okay.
Take care
I agree that you shouldn’t have to preface anything you say with an assertion that you, like Henry Thoreau, refuse to pay your taxes.
ANd that is not the point. The point is that asking such a thing of you is infuriating and annoying, and that is how the other side experiences some of the arguments that soldiers are bad people if they haven’t refused their obligations.
It’s a way of making you see the other side by making you feel uncomfortable in the same way they are made to feel uncomfortable.
It’s a rhetorical device. But so is calling this war illegal when it plainly is not currently deemed illegal in any American jurisdiction. It makes a point, but the point isn’t strictly or unambiguously true.
Let’s stop beating each other over the head with rhetorical devices. You and me and Spidey and Tracy have all been doing what we can and it is unfortunate to have us argue with each other over what are really just debating tactics.
If I can’t be a peace maker between you, I can at least ask everyone not to repeat the same exact argument that we had months ago and that really hurt this community.
(((((DJ)))))
Soooo…….
anyone like the pictures?…Anyone?…Hello?….
And I’m inspired to see some “faces from the hill” there with you guys.
Shit!!
For a second there I thought you wrote ‘feces from the hill’! Hahaha!! That works for me too :oP
Did you get a good snap of some? I would have thought the feces was too scared of you guys to show up. You guys might have composted it. That is one righteous thing that comes from having to live through a whole bunch of shit, really nice things grow from it.
Clowns to the left of me, feces to the right, here I am…..
At least some of the clowns were willing to come down off the hill and spread a little fertilizer of their own :o) But it’s true also that some major league funky stuff can grow out of it too. Time will tell.
…and then there’s the shit that grows out of shit…you know?
The kind that makes your friend’s eyes glaze over and cough while they’re telling you…wow…that’s some really good shit maaan…awesome :o)
Well having read this thread from top to bottom I think you need to pass some of that shit around.
Ah, unfortunate timing to have bumped into this stuff huh? Sorry Bro but at least we can end it on a high note ;o)
Duuuuuude, totally. Could I have your permission to post another DC pic in your thread?
Sorry I missed this…of course, post away.
I loved the pictures. And it was nice to see you and everyone else there! 🙂
Yah…
I know you were all astounded at my vastly superior conversational skills ;o)
Sure did super…they made me feel like I was there 😉
Then all is not lost :o)
Of course I liked the pictures..I’ve said it before, beautiful people take beautiful pictures. And it helps so much for all of who simply can’t go and physically protest to feel part of something that is bigger than we are. Peace is never a lost cause.
Thank you Chocolate Ink, thank you verymuch :o)
Who’s going to initiate some make-up sex now?
I think I need a drink first.
I had the drink first Saturday night and then got no sex!
Hmmmm…speaking of high notes, I haven’t seen a comment from AG yet. Maybe he can initiate the makeup sex? With a little smokey Jazz that is :o)
and I am all for make-up sex…teehee.
We’re all against the war – we just disagree on how best to end it.
Beautiful, spirited women who are changing the world in different ways.
Absolute best post in this diary.
Thanks
Now that was a spirited debate. As a newbie here, I didn’t dare interrupt, but I felt your pain…and I have just had a little bit of a history lesson about the Boo Trib Tribe. Old wounds die hard.But PLEASE, keep up the passion, guys. Don’t be afraid of it (somehow I know you’re not!) We’ve only just begun. Thanks for the diary, Super. I’m retired and living far, far away from the action, but as a disabled vet and, later, a veteran of many protests and marches, I can tell you, this process is like a steady drip, drip, drip… it’s not a Sunami, no matter how many people show up for a march or who reports what about it. It’s that one-drop-at-a-time thing that drives ’em crazy. Straight ahead.
Glad to finally make your aquantance Onealbear. And thank you for reading all the way through.
I don’t have any illusions that any protests, let alone the tame one’s we see today will change anything right away. It’s just a little disappointing to see the level of the crimes committed challenged at such a low intensity level. And I hold myself accountable in that lack of intensity too. If you want something done right you have to do it yourself sort of thing.
I followed some of your comments in the Cafe to your blog briefly and read a bit about 911 and how it effected you, at least I think it was you. Either way, it was very powerful and brought back some memories of the immediate aftermath and how New Yorkers dealt with the brand new uncertain world they encountered on 912. I live a couple of hours by car from Manhattan, out on the Island, and though I wasn’t in town that day, like a lot of people in the greater NY region, I know someone who lost someone that day. We all really lost that day, no matter where we were, but those who were downtown got the wind smashed out of them.
Take care
Yes, that was me. Thanks for visiting my blog–hope you’ll find time to come back. I’m just getting my feet wet here in the pond. So far the water is a little warm, but quite soothing.
who fought this fight before, that drip drip drip thing though makes more than just them a little crazy sometimes because we all so keenly feel the loss of lives while we wait for the next drip. Did any of you ever lose it a few times during your watch?
Oh yeah. A lot of us lost it. This is all so painful. Stiff upper lip, Tracy. I am so glad to know you. This debate is what it’s all about for all of us now. What will become of our country? I think it’s up to us.
The last time I had a good cry was on Thanksgiving night in 2005 after having a heart wrenching conversation with one of my closest friends whom I consider a brother. His marriage was falling apart and he was a couple of weeks away from his second deployment to Iraq. He didn’t want to go and was agonizing with helplessness – all I could do was listen and make him a promise that I would do what I could to help to bring this war to end.
That’s ultimately why I booked my flight to D.C. I didn’t go with any notion that my actions, along with countless others, would make any bit of difference to the Decider or a spineless Congress, it was to refill my heart battery. I was getting to the point where I was ready to stop fighting the machine.
I’m a deeply spiritual person, which I only allow glimpses of here in the mostly-secular blogosphere. An introvert by nature, it was only from Sunday through today that I could fully grasp what the protest did for me. It allowed me to renew my promise – to L, and to myself, that I would be me in the best way I know how.
We all come from different places, with different circumstances, related directly or indirectly to this particular war. I went to DC angry and left with hope. It’s because I see my trip as a renewal of a walk I’ve been on for quite awhile. I plan to take my aching feet along with my words and voice to everyone and anyone around me who will care to listen; and harass those who won’t, if need be 😉
I’ve lost friends from this war who don’t agree with me. I’ve had family members chastise me for joining this and other protests, but it doesn’t matter because in the end I know that I am exactly where I’m meant to be when I’m waging peace. I am the only one who can define that.
I can’t thank you enough for your words here, and your presence on Saturday. It was an honor to meet you and the others and just be. Sure, there is tons of work to do and dark days ahead, but I’m thankful to have met in D.C. and online a plentitude of hands who will be doing their part however they are capable.
Paz, hermano.
I’m glad I stepped outside just as you headed off for your solitary midnight tour of the monuments. If I hadn’t I would have missed shaking your hand that last time, even though I assumed I would see you again. And so the time between meetings will be a bit longer than anticipated but certain enough :o)
I felt recharged too. You can’t immerse yourself in a sea of likeminded souls and come away unlifted. But I didn’t go there for that. And though I have no illusions about the immediate impact that one gathering will produce, there is an urgency in our predicament that demands a more impassioned and effective response. There’s no time for patience. The grim reaper cares not.
The pleasure of meeting was all mine ManEegee.
Peace
It was an honor to meet you. And a surprise, because somehow, you appeared to me exactly as I had pictured you. Can’t explain that. I could sense the deep well of spirituality, too. Can’t explain that, either.
And the coaster matches perfectly. 🙂 Thank you.
was just a small thank you, AP, for sharing here and in real life how and why you view the world the way you do. In the end, that’s all we can do to try to understand la vida loca. Hope to cross paths again someday. paz
Thank you for your commitment sir.
peace be with you always.
wado friend
And the same to you Infidelpigappleseed :o)
Peace